I am not suggesting that but I don’t believe people come in there as a recruit and it’s an advantage relative to much nicer arenas that also have great atmospheres
Poor NIL is the biggest reason for our disappointing season
- Thread starter rutgersal
- Start date
How would the roster look?
You seemed pretty certain but seem to have few details.
How is he making them worse?
The 3 Musketeers were terrible offensively prior to Rutgers/this year.
Is he causing Martini to miss shots?
He’s benching Hayes?
How much is Flagg getting? Harper it's known is over $2 million with fanatics and red Bull and whatever else he has. I do not contribute to NIL. I was a college basketball fan watching kids get an education, stay for 4 years and play for the school not collect $$ and move on every year.
Ace literally committed on the spot because of the atmosphere at that Ohio State game.
I think the point was it's the team that provides the RAC value.
See last year and this year. If the team isn't winning, it's not impressive.
yeah, I don't disagree, just saying just because the school finally decided to do it's part, you can't expect generations of abused fans to just fall in line and start pumping in more $. It will probably take a generation of people seeing RU try to be part of the solution before fans become another part.
This is fantasy wish fullfillment.
There is no way of knowing if we'd have played better defense. Or if the team would be better on offense with different players.
The only player departure this might have prevented would have been Simpson, who hasn't improved at St. Joseph's this year against top competition.
We'd have had the same non-star NIL that we did this year (and possibly less without the excitement of Bailey/Harper)
We'd have had just as many new faces in the program if Bailey/Harper weren't two of them. (we would not have gotten Harper if we didn't get Bailey).
Pike's defensive approach takes time a brand new roster just didn't have.
Let's run out the "if Bailey didn't commit" line of thinking:
- No Bailey means no Harper, which means our freshman class is Sommerville, Grant, Dortch and two other random players.
- Davis may have left, and Simpson may have stayed. Needle doesn't move much.
- No Player's Era tournament and it's resultant $1M NIL payout
- No Kennesaw St game
- Mag, Woolfolk, Omoruyi, Griffiths, Chol all still leave.
- Roster would have been: Williams, Simpson, Obgole, Sommerville, Grant, Dortch, 2 freshmen... and whatever we could pick up/afford from the transfer portal.
Failing to see how we're "better off" in that situation.
I didn’t realize he committed to ru because of the rac. That’s great. I stand corrected. Just get kids to the rac. So easy. We should try this more often.
Thanks for making my point. “Irreparably damaged the basketball program” is a massive over-reaction.
Recruitment will be tough. Kids will have an idea in their head that we had 2 NBA picks and couldn't sniff the NCAA.
I feel we need to do whatever we can to keep ahold of our current players going into next year. Keep the core and add Nware, Mark, Powers, and Nwuli. Then grab maybe 2 portal players. Then the following year do everything possible to retain that group and be competitive in 2026-27.
Pike needs year-to-year carryover with players to be successful, and NIL needs to focus on retention more than the portal.
Next year, we could be looking at:
PG: Davis (Jr), Williams (5thSr), Mark (Fr)
SG: Powers (Fr)
SF: Derkack (Sr), Nwuli (Fr)
PF: Grant (So), Dortch (So)
C: Sommerville (So), Ogbole (Sr), Ware (Fr)
And we'd look to add a portal 2/3 as a priority, and maybe even a 3/4 if we go to 13 schollies.
Pike needs year-to-year carryover with players to be successful, and NIL needs to focus on retention more than the portal.
Next year, we could be looking at:
PG: Davis (Jr), Williams (5thSr), Mark (Fr)
SG: Powers (Fr)
SF: Derkack (Sr), Nwuli (Fr)
PF: Grant (So), Dortch (So)
C: Sommerville (So), Ogbole (Sr), Ware (Fr)
And we'd look to add a portal 2/3 as a priority, and maybe even a 3/4 if we go to 13 schollies.
we need a top level portal player period..a difference maker type that can score...easier said than done, if not next year will be very ugly, a second portal player needed to contribute major minutes as well
Yes, we need a difference-making 2/3 from the portal, imo. That's the area of primary concern. Even so, I don't expect much from this team next year... we need two years of retention-focused NIL spend to get back on track and competitive in 2026-27.
You don't think we would have been able to fish from a better pool in getting a shooting guard and wing?
reading how the Towers got involved with RU and its all about access and that is the job of the athletic department and the coaches to cultivate new donors and promise them access to the program and to other aspects of the University.
Rutgers is near NYC. Its mindboggling that they cannot find corporate big wigs and multi millionaires who may be interested in being part of athletics. The Towers thing happened by accident, it wasnt Rutgers finding them. The mom and pop fans who buy season ticket holders and post on the message boards are not the donors that are going to move the needle on NIL Until Rutgers becomes aggressive with pay to play they will always be behind. The fact that Rutgers has no AD is frightening, the fact that many seem okay with an interm is even worse.
the problem is Pike striking out with a guy like J Will...and let me tell you we also were hamstrung in the past by Hyatt as well. These were two regular sit out a year transfers that really did not help the program
They run an offense and a system and they appear to be held accountable (players who aren’t good enough don’t play). How often do you see Wisconsin take a bad shot, dribble aimlessly in circles, not box out, or throw a pass at a teammates feet? They probably don’t have fake captains who haven’t earned anything either.
yes this...i dont know why people have a hard time seeing this
Rutgers didnt pay for Ace/Dylan...they got an enormous benefit and head start. Its an utter failure that even with their head start for "free" they could not cobble together a decent roster. The NIL argument really doesnt apply for this particular year....and if there is no nil at all, then why bother playing at this level, they shouldnt be in the Big 10
I do not. The better pool was out of our price range.
We got Harper/Bailey from relationships and recruiting effort, and they came along with in-built NIL. The hype train around their arrival had some level of positive impact on the NIL available for the rest of the team - not least of which was Pike finally agreeing to a Thanksgiving tournament (Player's Era).
No Harper/Bailey, we'd have had even less NIL than we already had.... and we'd have need to replace 6 players, instead of just 4. Or we'd have had two other "need time" freshmen and have less money than we did to bring in 4 portal players.
In no universe would we have been better off without Bailey/Harper. That's silly, and "bargaining phase" talk.
We had Bailey/Harper and the rest of this class (primarily Sommerville), and we had Williams/Davis/Ogbole returning. We didn't have enough NIL to keep Omoruyi around, and we largely whiffed on the players we got out of the portal (I'd say Derkack has promise, the others have been a miss). To think we'd have had better player evaluations or more NIL money without Bailey/Harper already on the roster is not realistic.
Hard to argue for more NIL when we have two of the best players money can buy and are still garbage. There seems to be much larger issues at play that money won’t solve.
Would you continue to invest with a financial advisor that continues to perform below their peers? We’re dealing with a similar paradigm here.
Would you continue to invest with a financial advisor that continues to perform below their peers? We’re dealing with a similar paradigm here.
It of course applies for this particular year. We couldn't keep Omoruyi around, for one - he was out of our range. Could Pike have gotten Ewin instead? Probably... but that's just another new face in a sea of new faces that haven't been able to build chemistry this year.
Part of this, imo, is that Pike was looking more at "value for money" rather than "market rate" for players. The NIL market is wildly overvaluing players - no portal player is worth what they are going for. He didn't want to "overpay" for someone like Ewin... but that's what the market was demanding. Hopefully this is a lesson learned - you need to compete with hungrier teams that are willing to overpay for your players, despite their flaws.
JWill and AWill were desperation moves after Spencer/Mulcahy bailed late, well after the undergrad portal had closed. JWill was a huge risk, since we didn't even know if he'd be eligible for 2023-24 without a waiver, had the betting issue looming over his head, and was coming off a torn achilles tendon - but there were slim pickens in the portal at that point, and we had a massive hole blown through our roster after we'd thought it was largely set.
Also, just as an aside, NIL should have nothing to do with collectives pulling small contributions from fans. The whole point of "Name, Image, and Likeness rights" are that someone is being paid for use of their NIL for advertising or selling a product in some way. A collective begging fans to chip in nickels so that they can somehow funnel that money to players under the guise of "appearance" money or whatever, is a warped contortion of what NIL is supposed to be.
Now, I know the horse is out of the barn at this point, and NIL is just a euphemism for "let fans pay player salaries"... but the average fan is negatively impacted by $30 parking, and they can't be relied on to foot the bill for millions in player payouts.
/soapbox
Now, I know the horse is out of the barn at this point, and NIL is just a euphemism for "let fans pay player salaries"... but the average fan is negatively impacted by $30 parking, and they can't be relied on to foot the bill for millions in player payouts.
/soapbox
JWill has been bad, like real bad. I thought he is a capable PG. I think we would have been fine with him as a PG and we would have just needed a 2 guard which are cheaper than a PG.
We are 10-10 with the exact same record as last year and we are 126th in defense. Our program culture has been completely thrown out the window. We aren't making the NCAA tournament.
You aim for a Championship and at the least you dance every year. We don’t have the resources for a massive NIL budget, but we at least need an adequate NIL budget. We clearly don’t have that when we rolled the dice on Martini, Acuff, Hayes, and Dercack.
Not throwing money at the problem, merely asking for adequate resources to succeed.
Get out of here. You didn’t invest anything, so talking about continuing to invest is 8 jokes in one. What we’re dealing with is most of our fans don’t do anything, but run their mouth on the messageboard. This is primarily why our roster is very weak outside the two draft picks.
However our peers are investing. MSUs players are paid a good amount, so this puts us at a competitive disadvantage.
It’s a whole new ball game. We either support, or live with mediocrity or worse. It’s a binary decision.
RuChoppin,
Are you really rejecting that playing with 2 18 year olds that will be looking to put their numbers for the NBA draft wouldn't make a 22 year old look for a different option?
Are you really rejecting that playing with 2 18 year olds that will be looking to put their numbers for the NBA draft wouldn't make a 22 year old look for a different option?
It’s pay to play and always has been pay to play.
NIL is BS.
Before these payments happened under the table, which is why UConn has gotten so good at raising resources. Now everything is out in the open, so we either pony up or don’t.
You’re entitled to your own reaction. I would say disappointing, frustrating, learn from it, adapt, improve resources and get better. I would not say “national embarrassment, disgrace, irreparable damage, fire him now, find the money, Pikiell sucks, this team stinks” or the like.
I'm rejecting that we'd have been able to afford a B1G-level impact 22 year old at all (let alone two of them), with even less non-Harper/Bailey NIL money.
You're talking about dropping our 2 most talented players, replacing them with 2 random HS freshmen, and hoping that we'd be able to trade two of our current portal transfers for two others.... who would be net/net better than having Bailey/Harper on the team. None of this improves retention, or chemistry, or helps get everyone playing Pikiell-style defense.... it just swaps two freshman superstars for "two portal players in our budget".
Also, Bailey was our first commit for the 2024 class (Jan 2023). There's no telling whether we'd have even gotten Sommerville (Apr 2023), Dorch (Jun 2023), or Grant (Aug 2023) without that domino falling first.
Is this really the player you want:
“I don’t want to play with potential great players. I want to play with less talented players so I can do my own thing and get my own shots and numbers.”
That’s the argument you are making by targeting play don’t want to play along side potentially great players.
Why did Clif go to Alabama? To win.
He reportedly had better offers.
You don’t want players who want to win?
Sorry but “better players” generally correlates to “more winning”.
The atmosphere is unbelievable when we are on.
The sightlines are as good as any in college basketball.
The Sound is electrifying.
You don’t tear down the Palestra or Cameron Indoor.
It’s the one great and unique thing we have.
Again just build a nice concourse out front and add bathrooms. It’s not that difficult.
If you must build bougie boxes put up an elevator and make boxes where the offices are. SMH why this has taken decades.
The trend is towards smaller arenas. We don’t need the soulless morgues of OSU and PSU.
@bethlehemfan is just a guy who has to take the opposite side of everything I say. Even going as far as to say the RAC is a liability for us recruiting and that the apc is a dump. He is not to be taken seriously
What “current great players” were you pitching to this higher level wing?
Davis and Simpson?
Gavin?
JWill?
Come play with them and get your own numbers? Not a great culture fit.
None of us are privy to the NIL marketplace.
I think we would have been able to get a 2 guard and a wing off the portal with the spot being open for a guy being a focal part of the offense playing in the B1G for a reduced rate.
Obviously I don't know that.
Our situation coming in to the season had to have eliminated a LOT of potential transfer targets.
If I were a 22 year old playing for a mid major and saw the tape on Ace Bailey and the shots he took I would stay way clear of RU.
