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Preview of RU/Ilinois Dual Meet

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wngarbarini

Heisman Winner
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May 4, 2006
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Illinois brings a 5-1 record and a strong showing at the Midlans to their home meet Friday against the 9-1 Scarlet Knights. They have ranked wrestlers at 141, 157, 165, 174 and 184 so they will be tough to beat. So far dual meet wise they are without NCAA returning Champ Jesse Delgado at 125 which has hurt them as they have forfeited that weight class without him. Therefore they start every meet down 6-0. There only loss was to Lehigh by a 24-15 score after wins over SIU, Rider, Appalachian State, CSU Bakersfield and Grand Canyon. We will have to wrestle our best to have a chance.

Probable Lineups:

125 McCabe vs Jesse Delgado or forfeit

133 Delvecchio vs Dominic Olivieri (Zane Ricahrds is 11-1 but is redshirting)

141 Ashnault vs Stephen Rodriques (former Scarlet Knight who transferred to Illinois)

149 Theobold vs Kyle Langenderfer

157 Perrotti vs Isaac Martinez # 6 Midlands champ

165 Gravina vs Jackson Morse #6

174 Backukas vs Zack Brunson #8 and second in the Midlands

184 Hrymack vs Niko Reyes #14

197 Capy vs Jeff Koepke (could be a pivotal bout

285 Smith vs Brooks Black (Blair kid who has had a tough year so far at 7-4)

The meet could come down to the last 2 bouts. We could be favored in the first 3 if Delgado is out with 149 a tossup with Langenderfer at 9-3 and very good. They should be favored at 157, 165, 174 and 184 so it could get interesting.
 
Perrotti better lay off the pasta this week or IMART is gunna lay the smack down.

Great opportunity for a statement win after the dud against Iowa.
 
Wow, looks like we've got a shot to win this if Delgado doesn't wrestle. That would be awesome to beat a top 15 team for our first B1G win, even if they are without two of their best in Delgado and Richards.
 
Richards is not redshirting, he redshirted 2012-13 season. His issues appear to be (this is a guess) maybe grades. He has been wrestling unattached all year but didn't wrestle unattached for Midlands. I would "assume" we will see him in the lineup.

As for Delgado, who the hell knows what he is doing? Again only assuming here but I would guess it is a weight issue with him.

But if both these guys are in the lineup I think we could be looking at a 4-6 match split, with us giving up bonus at many weights. But if one or both are not in the lineup it could be a very competitive match and one I would give RU a chance to win.

Just my 2 cents.
 
Did Rodriques ever actually suit up for us or did he flip when Coop left for an assistants job at Illinois?
 
Sorry. Richards was ineligible due to grades I assume and will go against us. Uhh.
 
Thanks for update. Backucus may knock someone off during this difficult journey. $$$$
 
Wow. Tough break. If we had then 10-15 days ago we very well could win it. Then again we wouldnt have camp then either. Oh well life in the B1G
 
Originally posted by RU23:
Wow, looks like we've got a shot to win this if Delgado doesn't wrestle. That would be awesome to beat a top 15 team for our first B1G win, even if they are without two of their best in Delgado and Richards.
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They are not a top ranked team without Delgado and Richards, they are ranked that high based on them being in the lineup. You want to beat a team with their full lineup, you get nothing beating a team that is missing two of their best wrestlers.

Dollar Bill-agree about Bakuckus--he has been close to knocking off a higher ranked wrestler, I think it will come soon.
 
You get nothing out of beating a team missing two very good wrestlers?

I disagree. You still build some confidence that you're competing in the B1G. And you feel good with a win.

We'll lose enough matches in the B1G this year. A win would be a nice pick-me-up in any situation.
 
Originally posted by PhilaPhans:
You get nothing out of beating a team missing two very good wrestlers?

I disagree. You still build some confidence that you're competing in the B1G. And you feel good with a win.

We'll lose enough matches in the B1G this year. A win would be a nice pick-me-up in any situation.
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+1 after a win or loss in any sport they don't have an asterisk listing who was injured. The other team doesn't feel sorry for us because John Doe is hurt. Neither should we.
 
To me, the most interesting thing in this thread was the fact that the Illini were apparently forfeiting at 125 when Delgado couldn't wrestle. I would think a B1G program would at least have someone they could put out there to get some experience and try to save some points.
 
Will this be on TV also?

Ashnault again going up against a former Rutgers commit (he won his first one against Iowa). Hoping Perrotti to make some noise in this match!
 
Perotti is in a tough spot this week. The freshman from illinois is tough as nails and Ness on Sunday. His slump may continue but even if he was on a high note he very well could be 0-2 this week.
 
Originally posted by Passe24:
Perotti is in a tough spot this week. The freshman from illinois is tough as nails and Ness on Sunday. His slump may continue but even if he was on a high note he very well could be 0-2 this week.
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Wouldn't surprise me if the staff decided to 'rest' him for 1 of the 2 duals. Hate to have the kids confidence shook by 2 bad losses in a row (just hypothetically speaking if it were to happen agianst Martinez and Ness).

This post was edited on 1/7 2:15 PM by belushijo
 
Originally posted by belushijo:

Originally posted by Passe24:
Perotti is in a tough spot this week. The freshman from illinois is tough as nails and Ness on Sunday. His slump may continue but even if he was on a high note he very well could be 0-2 this week.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't surprise me if the staff decided to 'rest' him for 1 of the 2 duals. Hate to have the kids confidence shook by 2 bad losses in a row (just hypothetically speaking if it were to happen agianst Martinez and Ness).

This post was edited on 1/7 2:15 PM by belushijo
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X 2, wouldn't be surprised if he sits against Ness. Give him a shot against Martinez on Friday.
 
I will be shocked if he is healthy and sits out either match this week. He worked out with Ness in Maryland this summer and feels good wrestling him.
 
this is what the Big Ten is all about! gotta look at getting this level of competition as an advantage. you want to wrestle the best guys during the season. "bad" losses and a less than sterling record didn't stop Perrotti last year. learn from every match and be ready to wrestle your best in March.
 
Originally posted by wngarbarini:
I will be shocked if he is healthy and sits out either match this week. He worked out with Ness in Maryland this summer and feels good wrestling him.
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I think it depends a lot on the Martinez results. If he pulls out a win, AP will wrestle against Ness, no question.

If he loses, I think it's a 50/50 chance. That would be 3 in conference losses (including Kelly) which would come back to bite him during the seeding meetings for the big 10 tournament. And we know how much head coaches like protecting their seeds as much as possible.
 
it doesn't matter if AP wrestled Ness or sits, it won't affect his big ten seeding. the only time sitting protects your seed is if you upset an opponent and then sit next time you are scheduled to wrestle. or if you assume you will be ranked ahead of a guy if you don't wrestle and don't want to chance an upset. wrestling Ness can only help AP's Big 10 seed.

This post was edited on 1/7 5:09 PM by Jaroslav Hasek
 
I'd be shocked & appalled if AP "rested" 1 of those matches. This is B1G boy wrestling. You don't dodge anyone.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Originally posted by Jaroslav Hasek:
it doesn't matter if AP wrestled Ness or sits, it won't affect his big ten seeding. the only time sitting protects your seed is if you upset an opponent and then sit next time you are scheduled to wrestle. or if you assume you will be ranked ahead of a guy if you don't wrestle and don't want to chance an upset. wrestling Ness can only help AP's Big 10 seed.

This post was edited on 1/7 5:09 PM by Jaroslav Hasek
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If you are viewing it in a vacuum with a narrow definition, wrestling Ness can't hurt his seed because Ness is already going to be the 1 or 2 seed (assuming he wrestles to his current ranking). I get that.

If your viewing the season as a whole, with all conference duals/matches taken into account, a bad conference record will hurt APs seed.

Going 0-3 (again hypothetical) to open your conference schedule is not putting AP in a good position. Throw in the fact (all else being equal) he may wrestle Alton, Green and Demas, he very well could be looking at a 3-6 record. With 3 wins coming against guys that are just 'meh'.

Re: the bold:
By this logic AP should sit if he beats Martinez. So either way, back to my original point, it wouldn't surprise me if he sat out one of the duals. Admittedly, if he sat out because he beat Martinez, that would be contradictory to my original thesis.

My conviction in this isn't particularly secure, but the probability is there.


This post was edited on 1/7 6:40 PM by belushijo
 
Originally posted by belushijo:
If you are viewing it in a vacuum with a narrow definition, wrestling Ness can't hurt his seed because Ness is already going to be the 1 or 2 seed (assuming he wrestles to his current ranking). I get that.

If your viewing the season as a whole, with all conference duals/matches taken into account, a bad conference record will hurt APs seed.

Going 0-3 (again hypothetical) to open your conference schedule is not putting AP in a good position. Throw in the fact (all else being equal) he may wrestle Alton, Green and Demas, he very well could be looking at a 3-6 record. With 3 wins coming against guys that are just 'meh'.

Re: the bold:
By this logic AP should sit if he beats Martinez. So either way, back to my original point, it wouldn't surprise me if he sat out one of the duals. Admittedly, if he sat out because he beat Martinez, that would be contradictory to my original thesis.

My conviction in this isn't particularly secure, but the probability is there.


This post was edited on 1/7 6:40 PM by belushijo
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no, wrestling Ness can not possibly hurt Perrotti's big 10 seed. 3-6 with a loss to Ness is the same as 3-5 without wrestling Ness. if, on the other hand, Ness wanted to protect his seed, he might think about sitting out against RU, but the chances of that happening are exceedingly small.
 
Originally posted by Jaroslav Hasek:

Originally posted by belushijo:
If you are viewing it in a vacuum with a narrow definition, wrestling Ness can't hurt his seed because Ness is already going to be the 1 or 2 seed (assuming he wrestles to his current ranking). I get that.

If your viewing the season as a whole, with all conference duals/matches taken into account, a bad conference record will hurt APs seed.

Going 0-3 (again hypothetical) to open your conference schedule is not putting AP in a good position. Throw in the fact (all else being equal) he may wrestle Alton, Green and Demas, he very well could be looking at a 3-6 record. With 3 wins coming against guys that are just 'meh'.

Re: the bold:
By this logic AP should sit if he beats Martinez. So either way, back to my original point, it wouldn't surprise me if he sat out one of the duals. Admittedly, if he sat out because he beat Martinez, that would be contradictory to my original thesis.

My conviction in this isn't particularly secure, but the probability is there.


This post was edited on 1/7 6:40 PM by belushijo
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no, wrestling Ness can not possibly hurt Perrotti's big 10 seed. 3-6 with a loss to Ness is the same as 3-5 without wrestling Ness. if, on the other hand, Ness wanted to protect his seed, he might think about sitting out against RU, but the chances of that happening are exceedingly small.
Click to expand...
So your saying the probability of AP wrestling both duals is 100%

Agree to disagree.
 
Originally posted by belushijo:

So your saying the probability of AP wrestling both duals is 100%


Agree to disagree.
Click to expand...
no i'm saying Perrotti not wrestling in either match can't possibly give him a seeding advantage for the Big Ten tournament. i dont know whether he actually will wrestle both or not.
 
Originally posted by Jaroslav Hasek:

Originally posted by belushijo:

So your saying the probability of AP wrestling both duals is 100%


Agree to disagree.
Click to expand...
no i'm saying Perrotti not wrestling in either match can't possibly give him a seeding advantage for the Big Ten tournament. i dont know whether he actually will wrestle both or not.
Click to expand...
The seeding argument was a tertiary point added to my original post on this subject.

And its all relative to what the other guys at 157 do. A lot can happen. You can't really say with such conviction it won't affect his seed w/o knowing how the rest of the matches play out.

Thought experiment: Let's say Perrotti wrestles both duals and loses badly to both guys. He then goes out and wins against 3 of the lowest ranked guys in the big ten. Perrotti goes the entire season w/o a marquee in conference victory. Perrotti and a few others in the big ten are very close in terms seeding criteria, but the others had better performances against the higher ranked wrestlers than AP overall. Maybe one or two of them even pulled of an upset against Ness, Green, Demas, Alton, Kelly, Martinez...etc.They would have a better conference win than anything Perrotti could point to. What argument does Goodale make for AP as to why he should be seeded higher? He could bring up the AA finish from last season, but that is about it.




This post was edited on 1/7 7:19 PM by belushijo
 
not to beat a dead horse, because i'm a huge AP fan, but AP can not "protect his seed" by not wrestling a guy who is going to be seeded ahead of him at the Big 10 tournament.

your thought experiment is not protecting a seed, it's hoping for a slightly better seed by avoiding losses, and thats not so much a strategy as a capitulation. better to wrestle and lose and learn from it then avoid a loss and hope to get a 7 instead of 8 seed.

AP could be held out for other reasons, i have no idea, but helping his seed at the Big 10 tournament would not be a legitimate reason.
 
You're right, I think we're just talking past each other, as the seed protection point wasn't really the main reason I wouldn't be surprised if he sat one of these out.

I'm a big AP fan and perhaps I'm being harsh on him, but that's only because I know what he is capable of when he is clicking on all cylinders.

It's more of a confluence of factors like some of the sub-par performances to date (relative to the expectations I had for him coming into this year - fair or unfair), Goodale not being thrilled with how he handled himself during the break and assuming (for the sake of the discussion) he goes out and wrestles another bad match against Martinez and looks sluggish. It could really kill the kids confidence if he gets thrown out there with a buzz-saw like Ness. Everything Perroti does well, Ness does even better. Just not a good matchup for him, especially if he is not performing well.

For those reasons, I can definitely see the coaches taking some time to try to build the kid back up.

At this level, if you lose that confidence, you're done. AP knows this and said as much himself after he placed last year. He just had a confidence in himself going into EIWAs that carried over to NCAAs. He has to have that again if he wants to repeat. And quite honestly, it doesn't seem to have carried over as much as I thought it would.







This post was edited on 1/7 10:20 PM by belushijo
 
One thing AP does not lack is confidence. I say 100% he wrestles both if he is healthy!
 
I'm disappointed in the AP's performance so far, but one thing I know is that he goes out there and fights until the last second. He's always looking to win, and his matches are always exciting. He's due for a big win! Hope it comes this weekend.
 
Does anyone know if Illinois is on BTN2Go for free or BTN + where you have to pay?
 
Have any of our wonderful fans signed up for the CBS Pay site? ? And willing to do a play by play for us ? Anyone know another site that might carry it for free? I"m so cheap!!! LOL, what is the cheapest way to access this? lol

Here's the track wrestling site for results of the match



This post was edited on 1/9 6:06 PM by Abro1975

RU v Ill results
 
Would have liked to see Camp try to ride him instead of just cut him. Especially considering he proceeded to make zero attempts in the 2nd.

This post was edited on 1/9 8:12 PM by belushijo
 
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