Listen. I was stunned by today. There was no effort. And the team can't shoot straight. But let's call it the way it is. There is no semblance of an offense. There is a bunch of freelancing. I said this in December. There is no spacing and minimal ball movement. An NBA guy watched a few games and told me the same. Steve is not running off guys in a wholesale way like Pitino. Not happening. He is too loyal. Derek will be back. As will Gavin and many others. I do believe Cliff and Mag return and really need J-Mike. But, myst add a stong offensive minded coach who can run real sets for Dylan and Ace and the others. There are guys out there who have keen offensive minds. Brett Macconnell was one,but he will be an NEC or MAAC coach. Just find the guy, re-set the offense and score the ball.
Primary Issue
- Thread starter RU72
- Start date
If you were stunned, I can’t take your analysis seriously. Yet it’s accurate. @RU72. The makeup of next years roster is still up in the air for
me though. Expecting more movement.
A perennially bad offense vs a solid defensive coach, this result seems likely, not shocking.
me though. Expecting more movement.
A perennially bad offense vs a solid defensive coach, this result seems likely, not shocking.
Could have the most perfectly crafted sets in history and we’d still brick most of them. I never put much faith in a team that can’t shoot.
Don't want Cliff back. Double him still can't pass and unlike Reese who can make a jump shot Cliff can't. needs to go.
Did RU72 realize it just today. We have been saying this for years
Silly. Even just for his defense / shot blocking / effect shots he could be good asset next year . And with the talent coming maybe cliffs role on offense will be what it SHOULD be: put backs and dunks-off-assists. Ie NEVER have Cliff create anything
Not silly. Should have said want bigs who can shoot, and not miss from 3 feet like Cliff does. Or 50% from foul line.
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The half court offense is unwatchable because its playground basketball without shooters that can create and make shots off the dribble.Yes, the offense stinks but there is no excuse allowing so many offensive rebounds.
Why would cliff come back to Rutgers?
Yes we should purposely cast away an experienced big man who leads, or nearly leads, the country in blocked shots
We ALL know cliffs multiple short comings but WANTING him gone is laughably absurd.
RU72: I generally appreciate your analyses, but I have some issues with your takes here.
1. Cliff coming back? After he has regressed this year? Makes absolutely no sense. We need to move on.
2. Mag an injury risk at this point - you can't rely on him to start, and I'm now getting on Hawk's bandwagon that he's not adding much of value to this team.
3. Who do you get rid of to add an offensive coach? I don't buy we just bring back Jay young to solve everything.
4. Finally, I don't doubt what you're saying about Pike and loyalty, but he needs to absolutely grow up here and grow some stones. It's a new day in college basketball and NIL. There are folks he needs to have difficult convos with and if he doesn't, he's hurting the team. Simpson absolutely needs to go next year and we don't need to spend more NIL money on Mag, Cliff, etc when we could bring in quality pieces to go along with Bailey and Harper.
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Fans knew that from the beginning of the season and its getting progressively worse.
said it at the time, but returning was the worst decision he could’ve made for himself though I am very happy he returned
If Cliff wants to play another year of college sponsored basketball why wouldn't he atleast look around for a better situation where he might develop further? The lack of offensive sets and talent has not helped him either. The rotation at the center position is getting more bizarre as the season progresses.
If all the players are “regressing”, is it really the players regressing…
I get that and I also get that Cliff is a really nice kid. I understand RedTeam's POV in that too many wasted possessions trying to force the ball in to Cliff, usually too far from the basket, when he has no real offensive moves. No drop step, no touch on short shots, bad hands and no awareness to pass the ball out when he's double teamed. Maybe, just maybe, we run a better offense with a different big man (Sommerville), especially if the new guys open the floor with outside shooting.
To add to my previous post, yes Cliff blocks a lot of shots but when faced with a big man who has offensive moves, he frequently gets beat.
I hear ya but sommerville is going to be a frosh. We all know that you can’t rely solely on a freshman big man. HOPEFULLY cliff comes back and sommerville replaces him as a starter mid way through the season - would be best case actually.
But getting rid of Cliff and HOPING on a freshman big man …. Silly
People posting about his shortcomings (eg Reese being able to pass out of doubles; getting outclassed by good big men, etc) doesn’t change that. We could absolutely use him next year
I love Pike. But changes must be made. His defense first second and third mentality is a big part of the problem. The other is obviously we don’t run an offense. It’s not that hard. But we make it look so.
Whoever is in charge of the offense must go. Enough is enough. Today was a disgusting effort and display of basketball.
Whoever is in charge of the offense must go. Enough is enough. Today was a disgusting effort and display of basketball.
This. I agree our offensive sets arent great, but even when we take open shots we miss. There were multiple open shots today that weren't even close to going in. It's very easy to point to the coach but it's more of a talent issue which is on Pike.
The amount of open shots, free throws, layups we miss is actually impressive.
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we did but none of us thought it would be this bad. At some point players need to make plays. The idea that we aren't running an offense to me is silly. What do want open layups and dunks every time?? not going to happen.
You know how to open up offense? MAKE A FUC*KING shot at some point. You want easier shots?? Make the defense worry about your shooting , things will magically open up. I know this asking just too much (sarcasm) but sometimes player have to make a shot even when its not a good shot. this is basketball. you aren't going to get open looks every possession
I have been beating this drum for 30 fracking years now. We aren't going to win anything ever unless there is at the VERY LEAST the THREAT of making 3 pointers.
Now if you want to blame PIke for that then fine because he hasn't recruited enough guys that can do that. But the offensive scheme is not what's holding this team back.
Before that little sh*t who went to Yukon left, we all looked at the roster and thought our perimeter would be significantly better. We all differed in our opinion as to what Griffiths was going to offer us this year but almost everyone including yours truly thought he would make some 3s for us this year.
Guys need to make shots, period.
If Pikiell spent any time studying advanced metrics instead of disparaging them maybe we'd have a semi functional offense.
You need to go back 40 years and point out a generation-level talent coming into college…..
Pointing out exceptions (lottery pick talents) to disprove a known thing - commonly big men take time to develop
How many times a game does Cliff come off his guy to try and block a shot of a guy driving to the basket and leave his guy unattended for the easy rebound and put back? I assume he is being instructed to do this but he can't try and block every shot from an opponent who has a step on his primary defender.
This. Counted like 4 10-12 foot jump shots missed by Derek alone, then J Mike, then Hyatt. if you are not guarded at this level you need to be able to knock most of those down.
its so freaking weird that we won the games we shot the 3 ball well ! Ponderous! (/s)
Plus+++++!!!! I've been as frustrated as anyone here. Brandon Knight, cannot run our offense anymore. He just can't. It's downright embarrassing. But with that said, and knowing Pike is loyal to a fault, Knight is also the one bringing in top flight talent to the Banks. Something has to give here. Maybe '72 like you stated, Pike needs to bring in a top offensive mind. If Knight stays, then give him something else to do. But this current offense is offensive.
and when you are guarded you still need to make some too.
This thread is pure comedy.....
You have one legitimate threat on offense off the dribble in JWill and one player who is inconsistent on offense in Cliff.
The other starters are a frosh in JMike, a sophomore in Simpson who are not going to carry Cliff and Mag on offense.
People keep ignoring the obvious.....Mag is not a starter on any credible NCAA roster on any level. He brings LESS offense than Cliff and plays a position that requires scoring and shooting as a forward......and no credible "offensive " assistant coach anywhere would recruit or start a player with Mag's lack of skills on offense.
Team's actually do scout, you know....the amount of shots turned down because the players cannot drive or shoot (Mag), the inability to get anything off the dribble from the wing, cripples any offense....keep in mind, Hyatt isn't going to get by some defenders off the bounce, but he at least tries....and Hyatt is a much better perimeter shooter. What exactly does Mag do well on offense??? I'd love to hear this spin.....
The level of denial is at an all time high.....you cannot run any credible offense if you don't have an ability pass into the low or high post and get points or something in terms of passing to open shooters. If Cliff is at best inconsistent in the post and is not a passer, what offense can you run, with Cliff AND Mag, who is worse offensively than Cliff.
Add in Simpson and Davis and there's no coach on the planet that takes Cliff and Mag as extremely limited offensive players with nothing off the dribble or as a shooter, and makes it work.
You have one legitimate threat on offense off the dribble in JWill and one player who is inconsistent on offense in Cliff.
The other starters are a frosh in JMike, a sophomore in Simpson who are not going to carry Cliff and Mag on offense.
People keep ignoring the obvious.....Mag is not a starter on any credible NCAA roster on any level. He brings LESS offense than Cliff and plays a position that requires scoring and shooting as a forward......and no credible "offensive " assistant coach anywhere would recruit or start a player with Mag's lack of skills on offense.
Team's actually do scout, you know....the amount of shots turned down because the players cannot drive or shoot (Mag), the inability to get anything off the dribble from the wing, cripples any offense....keep in mind, Hyatt isn't going to get by some defenders off the bounce, but he at least tries....and Hyatt is a much better perimeter shooter. What exactly does Mag do well on offense??? I'd love to hear this spin.....
The level of denial is at an all time high.....you cannot run any credible offense if you don't have an ability pass into the low or high post and get points or something in terms of passing to open shooters. If Cliff is at best inconsistent in the post and is not a passer, what offense can you run, with Cliff AND Mag, who is worse offensively than Cliff.
Add in Simpson and Davis and there's no coach on the planet that takes Cliff and Mag as extremely limited offensive players with nothing off the dribble or as a shooter, and makes it work.
And to think, Pike said preseason that this team could be an 80 ppg team.
But maybe he meant over two games…
But maybe he meant over two games…
Where would he look for better situation?…dude has hands of stone
I've seen the light on Mag Hawk. 100 percent in agreement with you now.
Noah hardly played today and Griffiths was on the court for extended minutes but his teammates failed to pass him the ball for open 3 pointers.
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I question the coaching over the players. Look no further than Noah. Kid was benched for awhile and that has coming out party against Whisky hitting 5 3s. Hits 2 more against Purdue, but if you look at his minutes over the last 3 games they have been so low. While I know he gets tentative and tends to think before shooting you would think a coach would encourage him to be aggressive.
Don't even get me started on Gavin. He was in for very long stretches today and they BARELY found ways to get him the ball. If he sucks at defense and you want him in for offense, what are you doing to get him good looks. Kids hit his first 3 today and not even a single attempt after that. Clearly we have no offense like @RU72 mentions but EVERYONE has been saying this for years. I just think we have had talent that has masked it the past couple of years with people who can isolate an hit shots.
We need change and I am willing to see Pike through on this as he is a great ambassador foe the program but we continue to sputter along each season needing miracles to help us even reach or be considered for postseason(NCAA only thing that counts). He needs to change his staff or he risks next year and capitalizing on his great class.
Don't even get me started on Gavin. He was in for very long stretches today and they BARELY found ways to get him the ball. If he sucks at defense and you want him in for offense, what are you doing to get him good looks. Kids hit his first 3 today and not even a single attempt after that. Clearly we have no offense like @RU72 mentions but EVERYONE has been saying this for years. I just think we have had talent that has masked it the past couple of years with people who can isolate an hit shots.
We need change and I am willing to see Pike through on this as he is a great ambassador foe the program but we continue to sputter along each season needing miracles to help us even reach or be considered for postseason(NCAA only thing that counts). He needs to change his staff or he risks next year and capitalizing on his great class.
You're mostly right except the other players on the roster aren't any better.
