oh Pike knows but he doesn’t have players who can. the 3 guards are ball hogs and the others just watch. I feel bad for GG, Hyatt and Mag. The guards don’t look to involve them.
Primary Issue
- Thread starter RU72
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And ultimately whose fault is that?
I mean it’s fair considering ISO ball has been our identity, so why recruit guys that look to dish?
Offense will look fine next season because of Ace and Dylan, but then the following year it’ll be a drop off and people will blame talent again.
Did you put Gavin and Gifted Shooter in the same post? He's making nice non-shooting strides but his shooting is worst than most. He's frankly horrible shooting.
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Yes, no doubt the roster is 100% Pike’s fault and responsibility. I’m just saying that our guards are very limited in team-play, passing and scoring abilities. That can’t be fixed any more than Cliff’s offensive game can be fixed.
The players are who they are. Unfortunately I don’t think next year will be different because I believe Ace and Dylan were sold on coming here for iso, unstructured offense too..
The players are who they are. Unfortunately I don’t think next year will be different because I believe Ace and Dylan were sold on coming here for iso, unstructured offense too..
Bottom line is this team is floundering down the stretch again with no even closely clear team identity, losing focus, losing effort.
I think Pike is exposed for several shortcomings. 8 years in and he still can't blend a team and put the pieces together on a consistent basis.
He's tough guy but not tough enough to be a top coach in this division. He gets less not more out of his players. Sorry. You can call that harsh I can say I've seen it plenty and somebody bought him a potential team for next year.
He won't make Dylan or Ace better. They will make him better. That is not coaching.
I think Pike is exposed for several shortcomings. 8 years in and he still can't blend a team and put the pieces together on a consistent basis.
He's tough guy but not tough enough to be a top coach in this division. He gets less not more out of his players. Sorry. You can call that harsh I can say I've seen it plenty and somebody bought him a potential team for next year.
He won't make Dylan or Ace better. They will make him better. That is not coaching.
Unfortunately, Gavin had shot so poorly on huge usage and until the last two games really never passed it back it's not surprising guys started freezing him out. You do have to earn your shots.
I wouldn’t say he gets less out of his players overall. They do largely play to their ability, which is lacking especially at guard. How on earth is Mag supposed to be productive if the guards can’t create opportunities for him ?
Hawk said Mag should be able to score via isolation plays. Why should he be able to score on his own? That’s not how it works. Guards need to facilitate for frontcourt players and ours don’t.
Today Simpson did have a nice pick and roll pass which Cliff didn’t turn and look for. He was turning to go for the rebound because he’s used to Simpson always shooting from that spot, and of course missing the shot. That’s the problem. The guards f up the offense with their usual selfishness and iso play.
Pike’s failure is mostly in recruiting team first guards to this current roster.
I reject that notion. He is a 3 whose asset is shooting. He earns shots by being in the game
Didn't know this was going to be a blackout scrimmage; 12 saw the floor; 9 with at least 13 minutes; maybe somebody kept count on number of different combinations; at least he got something out of the JWill, Austin, Oskar, Gavin (can't recall 5th) combo; Game 27 - & still experimenting. SP yelling in huddle to start 2nd half - guess that didn't work. Blatantly obvious certain guys refuse to pass to Gavin (not everyone); Anyway 2 to go. Good to see Geo & Ron; didn't hear who was sitting with Kleinbaum.
The offensive scheme is most certainly lacking. Not making shots is on the players. Not getting more open looks is on the staff. The lack of ball movement and player movement is astounding.
Wouldn’t be shocked if he transfers after what I saw today. Clearly there are issues. He doesn’t enjoy basketball at Rutgers and his teammates don’t seem to like playing with him.
It’s hard to be certain just based on body language but it appears this way that’s for sure. The composition of this team next year is having the makings of something completely different. Hopefully that includes some staff changes.
I think at this point it is fair to say that he gets less out of his players not more on the offensive end. I also do think it is fair to say he gets more out of his players not less on the defensive end. He’s a defensive coach. Hobbs should have sat Pike down for the talk, the talk concerning how he needs to bring in offensive coaching assistance at this point. This has been going on for years and does not seem like it’s going to change without a change or new piece added to the mix on the coaching side.
I agree our offense has a lot of roll the ball out and let em play elements to it.
However as the talent lessons the more you need structure and a system to rely on.
However as the talent lessons the more you need structure and a system to rely on.
The primary issue is roster building because we were far more than a mulcahy away from being competitive this year.
All I can say is we had better keep Williams after whatever bidding war is placed on him. Because if we go into next season with exactly a single player (an often injured mag) we trust besides the two five stars, it is a complete failure in roster building. Pike has to make sure those other 3 spots are solid.
All I can say is we had better keep Williams after whatever bidding war is placed on him. Because if we go into next season with exactly a single player (an often injured mag) we trust besides the two five stars, it is a complete failure in roster building. Pike has to make sure those other 3 spots are solid.
This needs to be said, Jeremiah Williams is only B1G caliber player on the offensive end that is expected to return next year. Obviously Cliff is as well if he comes back, but no one else has shown to play consistent bball on the offensive end at a B1G level. Completely unacceptable by coach. Stop recruiting guys who can’t shoot. Stop recruiting so many guys who won’t contribute until their junior year. Stop recruiting so many undersized players. Get it done. It’s unacceptable. Again, look at what happened to PSU at the end of last year and they’re way better than us this year. That should say something. There’s literally close to 1000 players that hit every year, not everyone is getting 6 figures. Go upgrade your roster. At this moment, next year’s team is barely an NCAA tournament team.
yes I agree. but this year were are now 100th in rebounding. We used to be top 10 top 20 there. Guys are not getting after it and too often the guys are leaving players alone, not boxing out, etc. Just more individual stuff. Just don't like the lack of teamwork. (example ..what Hyatt did on that missed double team on Reese in going for the ball vs. just standing there and taking the charge/creating the wall)
They took our spot from us in the NCAA tourney last year and they are better than us again this year. That's a tough one for me.
Wild to think about. A team that lost basically everyone is still able to play 500 basketball in conference. That should be a message to Pike
The big whif was Noah. Pike was screwed by Paul and Cam late in process. However, Noah was a shockingly bad whif.
Actually, he also whiffed on a competent big man to play the 4/5. Perhaps he thought Wolf would step up clearly he thought wrong.
Huge offseason coming up to ensure we have a roster around Dylan/Ace that can compete and make a run.
So wrong. The guys on the court are playing like shit because there’s no cohesion or chemistry. Noah doesn’t often play much.
What you saw yesterday had nothing to do with Noah. And not Mag, Cliff, GG, Hyatt or anyone else but the three main guards who don’t play team offense, including JWill.
Pike is the best coach we've had in decades, but his offensive coaching is pathetic (and has been since he got here). Cam Spencer is an excellent demonstration of what annoys me. Why is it that Spencer is getting more shot attempts (and playing more minutes) on the best team in the country, than he got last year playing for our team that couldn't make the tournament? Why did Cam shoot 45% from the field last year (at Rutgers), yet he's shooting 50% from the field (shooting more 3s) for UCONN? These are not unreasonable questions.
kyk screamed it for three years in a row , made a lot of grown men cry (and obsessed)
The primary issue is shooting. Most good teams have multiple players who can shoot the ball including from 3. Pike needs to find the best shooter he can from the portal and hope that GG takes a step forward next year.
That's a nice thought for the beginning of the season. His asset is shooting, yet he's shot 44% (30% from 3), in November to 31% (23%) in December to 29% (31%) in January to 15% (13%) in February. If that's the progression of your asset, you don't have an asset this year. If you've made more than 3 shots just twice in 16 games, shooting is NOT CURRENTLY your asset. The fact that his teammates have looked him off should tell you it doesn't matter if you reject the notion, it's the truth.
Williams can't shoot either. He's probably B1G caliber, but he looks more and more similar to our other guards with each outing. His defensive rating is now higher than the other starters. He's great for the highlight reel, but he's not consistent at all. Also get's himself in foul trouble too often.
There are problems all over the place. It is awful that players would intentionally not pass to an open guy for a 3. I cant say with 100% but it did appear that way yesterday.
Pike is going to look at the film, assess what is actually happening on the court (chemistry), and figure out how to deal with it for the sake of the program short, medium and long term.
Sorry for being a broken record....2 things are obvious.....Gavin doesn't deserve to play AND players really (at best) disrespect Simpson.
My conviction is really low on how to handle, but if I were Pike.....I am playing the older guys and significantly reducing the role of Simpson. I think we want JWill back and I know he likes to win. I know what he thinks of Simpson.
Hurley has them run an offense that generates good looks. We don’t run an offense. In hindsight, Cam made a great move transferring.
All too often, Simpson’s passes to Cliff end up being turnovers due to Cliff’s stone hands. Part of it could be that Simpson doesn’t look to pass as his first alternative so Cliff isn’t specifically looking for the pass. Paul was the opposite in that he looked to Cliff as first alternative and often in detriment to the team (he didn’t look for his shot enough and couldn’t create his own shot).
What is puzzling about Simpson is that he does do a great job of getting off a good shot, gets tremendous elevation on jumper, but too often he isn’t making them. Unfortunately, besides JWill, nobody else really can create their own shot. Cliff has to do a much better job of pump faking and taking his time with ball rather than throwing bricks at rim
Definitely issues through out the line up, it's not all just one thing. I've noticed Gavin being looked off for a week or two now. Honestly, it could be good for him, as he has started to show up on the court in different ways that he wasn't prior. He's trying on D. He's trying to get in rebound. He's put the ball on the floor and then passed recently. I think those are all positives for him. Not sulking will win teammates back.
I haven't noticed it in regards to Simpson. Williams has been the worst thing for Simpson, as Simpson plays best when he's got the ball in his hands or thinks he's running things. Simpson just takes the wrong shots. Literally no one realized he's shot 36% from three this year as a starter because he takes so few of them. He missed everyone when he came in off the bench. Weirdly, I actually want to see more Simpson. Williams looks more and more like our other guards by the day. Experience and man body are his best traits.
Pike needs to drop the three guards. While JD has been fine, in the last five games he's provided 6 assists and 10 turnovers while rebounding at a lower rate than he was earlier in the year. He goes to the bench. I'd roll out Williams, Simpson, Hyatt, Mag, and Cliff with almost set JD, Noah or AW, Gavin, Palm, and whomever backups.
disagree. Minnesota, Purdue, Maryland and most of the conference gets wide open threes. our threes are late clock, contested threes because of the poor guard play, including JWill. None of them "run" offense. They are only looking to score.
One of Northwestern's best 3 pt shooters was out of our game with an injury, and the other got ejected early. Otherwise that would have been another lopsided L.
The problem with this thread is that the OP has framed the "Primary Issue" completely wrong. The offense is not the primary issue. That's like saying the primary issue for losing weight is what kind of diet I choose, Keto, Adkins, Paleo etc. No it's not. The primary issue with losing weight is do you have a relatively balanced diet, disciplined portion control and regular exercise.
The biggest variable in college, high school and youth sports success is relative talent level. It's no coincidence that the top teams every year consistently have the top ranked recruiting classes. Is Matt Painter's offensive system better than RU's or do they have have better players? Is Ryan Day better than Schiano at X's and O's or does he have a stable of NFL talent to work with? Show me a successful college coach and I'll show you the consistent level of pro and high level college talent they have. Good players make good teams not good plays.
If we have a core of 2-3 star talent, the middle of the league has 3-4 star talent and the top of the league 4-5 star talent, where would you except us to be? The fact we've been able to get to the middle of the pack and flirt with the top half is a testament to our coaching and player development. Building a program is not a straight line, it grows like the stock market. You'll have periodic pullbacks within a longer term uptrend. Our recruiting the last few years was better than Pike's first few years and our future recruiting even better!
In his third and fourth year Chris Collins won over 20 games and and got Northwestern in the NCAA tournament for the first time. A few years later he won only 8 and 9 games. I wonder how many posters and media were questioning his coaching, his offense and whether he was the right guy? Fast forward to last year and another 20 plus win season and NCAA bid. This year he's on the doorstep of another 20 win season and NCAA bid.
Next year we have one of the top recruiting classes. Really amazing considering where this program was prior to Pikiell. We all want instant results but consider the mountain we had to climb and remember lasting growth, like the stock market, is not in a straight line.
The biggest variable in college, high school and youth sports success is relative talent level. It's no coincidence that the top teams every year consistently have the top ranked recruiting classes. Is Matt Painter's offensive system better than RU's or do they have have better players? Is Ryan Day better than Schiano at X's and O's or does he have a stable of NFL talent to work with? Show me a successful college coach and I'll show you the consistent level of pro and high level college talent they have. Good players make good teams not good plays.
If we have a core of 2-3 star talent, the middle of the league has 3-4 star talent and the top of the league 4-5 star talent, where would you except us to be? The fact we've been able to get to the middle of the pack and flirt with the top half is a testament to our coaching and player development. Building a program is not a straight line, it grows like the stock market. You'll have periodic pullbacks within a longer term uptrend. Our recruiting the last few years was better than Pike's first few years and our future recruiting even better!
In his third and fourth year Chris Collins won over 20 games and and got Northwestern in the NCAA tournament for the first time. A few years later he won only 8 and 9 games. I wonder how many posters and media were questioning his coaching, his offense and whether he was the right guy? Fast forward to last year and another 20 plus win season and NCAA bid. This year he's on the doorstep of another 20 win season and NCAA bid.
Next year we have one of the top recruiting classes. Really amazing considering where this program was prior to Pikiell. We all want instant results but consider the mountain we had to climb and remember lasting growth, like the stock market, is not in a straight line.
Agree that progress isn’t linear.
That said, we still need a ton of roster turnover.
Pike has to adapt. Limit the number of recaches when recruiting HS players.
Because he’s on a better team that generates more open shots for him? I’m not sure I understand what the question even is..
The guy is 7 of 8 for three and 12 of 13 overall in the two of the last 5 he's played. WHEN he's played lol.
After torching Wisky for 17 he took no shots in 10 mins vs. NW (5 defensive rebounds!), then no shots again in only 3 freaking mins in the loss to minny , then put up 11 on Purdue on 4 of 6 (2/3 outside) in 13 damn minutes, then missed his 1 shot in his 6 mins yesterday.
HE'S the problem? He's played 32 out of 120 mins after the big game vs. Wisky. Who's making the decisions as to who should be playing mins right now?
Forgot that they also went to the B1G Tourney final as the 10 seed last year and lost by 2 to top Seed Purdue.
Best offensive sequence yesterday - 2nd half - Oskar(?) to Hyatt on the perimeter, Hyatt to JD who fakes the shot, back to open Hyatt (who’s man was late on the rotation) who drains the 3. Watched teams kill us with ball movement…
Didn’t see that again.
Pretty sure that’s how it works - Jimmys and Joes.
