Re: Paul - Is there any chance…

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

He's a career 36.4% 3 point shooter which is pretty good. He shot over that last year even with the injuries. Paul is a good spot up shooter. He just needs to be more aggressive and be ready to catch and shoot. Many times he just doesn't even try to catch in a shooting position

Yes.. ^^^this^^^. It amazes me how many people do not know he is one of our better 3-point shooters.

I wonder if he and Cliff and the team fell a bit too much in love with those little alleyoops or passes for dunk shots.. even involving Rieber. I wonder if that is why Paul turned down open 3s and drove and also did not even try to catch a pass along the arc with feet set to shoot... because he valued the drive and pass for dunk a bit too much.

Also keep in mind how opponents would prevent the pick and roll by grabbing Cliff.... I don't think it was ever called.. but happened very frequently. Guy playing the ball (and sometimes that was Paul with the ball) would collide with Cliff, who set a nice screen, and sometimes that resulted in Cliff being called for a foul.. but very often the defender colliding would just grab him for a second.. preventing his ability to go tot eh rim while his man checked the ball with time to return to D him.

Maddening.. that. Very poor refs in the B1G when they refused to see that happening. And that's what made Paul have no one to go to on some of his drives.

 

[njxchange]

We're actively looking for a portal PG. Doesn't have to be Simpson.

Mulcahy's offense lends itself much more as a point forward at the next level than a point guard, as he likes to play back to the basket in the paint and catch and shoot on the perimeter. But we really haven't had a true point guard for him to hand the reins to and slide over to that forward spot.

you really think Paul can back down people at next level?

so you think Paul will stay?

 

[njxchange]

23/24 roster - minutes

PG - Simpson
SG - Cam
SF - Gavin
PF - Mag
C - Cliff (if he stays) / Wolf
if Paul stays, does he start over Simpson or Gavin? I think neither... Simpson took over as PG at the end of the season. Gavin, will be good as advertised.
People are talking about Paul can be Point forward, but I actually think Gavin will end up being more of Point forward as he seems to have good handle that can create his own shot, which in turn will create shots for others.

If he is willing to take that less role, its huge for Rutgers. To have veteran player who is willing to sacrifice for the team. This will set great example for other players...
but but but I think for himself, it will be better to transfer to another team that is willing to let him play point guard and take reigns for one year.

 

[MiloTalon13]

23/24 roster - minutes

PG - Simpson
SG - Cam
SF - Gavin
PF - Mag
C - Cliff (if he stays) / Wolf
if Paul stays, does he start over Simpson or Gavin? I think neither... Simpson took over as PG at the end of the season. Gavin, will be good as advertised.
People are talking about Paul can be Point forward, but I actually think Gavin will end up being more of Point forward as he seems to have good handle that can create his own shot, which in turn will create shots for others.

If he is willing to take that less role, its huge for Rutgers. To have veteran player who is willing to sacrifice for the team. This will set great example for other players...
but but but I think for himself, it will be better to transfer to another team that is willing to let him play point guard and take reigns for one year.

Agreed on Gavin - he's such a shooter the other parts of his game get overlooked - he's an athlete and a creator too.

Your lineup is not even considering a transfer portal PG starting over Simpson.
Bench = Ndongo, Simpson, Wolff, Hyatt and Paul? + Davis and possibly another portal guy or two?

If they get a commit from a portal PG AND a portal wing or 3/4 - that's a sign Paul and Hyatt will not be back (and I think that will happen).

 

[RUChoppin]

you really think Paul can back down people at next level?

so you think Paul will stay?

He isn't going to suddenly be able to drive with dribble penetration and get a defending guard on his hip with foot speed. His offense comes either by backing into the post or as a catch and shoot, whether that's here or at some professional level (e.g., Europe).

I'm saying that I don't think moving off the ball would be a deal breaker for him, necessarily. Whether that means he comes back or not, I don't know.

 

[RU84]

How about guys who lead the big ten in assists?

The short answer is no, assists alone isn’t enough for an offense starved for points. Also: A) He was in the top 10 but didn’t lead the league in assists. B) out of the top 10 assist leaders in the Big, he had the lowest PPG. Unless you want another NIT team, we need a talent upgrade.

 

[needmorecowbell]

The short answer is no, assists alone isn’t enough for an offense starved for points. Also: A) He was in the top 10 but didn’t lead the league in assists. B) out of the top 10 assist leaders in the Big, he had the lowest PPG. Unless you want another NIT team, we need a talent upgrade.

He did lead the big ten in assists 2021-22. Paul is not the problem. If Mag doesn’t get hurt Rutgers is a 5-7 seed. They do need another scorer. That can be fixed in the portal and adding Gavin.

 

[RU84]

He did lead the big ten in assists 2021-22. Paul is not the problem. If Mag doesn’t get hurt Rutgers is a 5-7 seed. They do need another scorer. That can be fixed in the portal and adding Gavin.

Ok, if you get a portal PG and Gavin sees good minutes whose minutes get cut? Paul’s.

 

[MiloTalon13]

Ok, if you get a portal PG and Gavin sees good minutes whose minutes get cut? Paul’s.

Gavin get Caleb’s minutes portal PG get starting PG minutes
Seems obvious - there are few minutes left for Paul - which is why he won’t be back he can see this

 

[RUChoppin]

Ok, if you get a portal PG and Gavin sees good minutes whose minutes get cut? Paul’s.

Total conference minutes played last year / 20 games (went with conference minutes, because it shakes out the early "feel out the team and get guys reps" games):
34.5 - Mulcahy
32.4 - McConnell (19 games)
31.0 - Spencer
31.0 - Omoruyi
23.6 - Hyatt
16.5 - Simpson
15.3 - Mag (12 games)
6.6 - Palmquist (10 games)
5.6 - Reiber (17 games)
4.1 - Woolfolk (18 games)

Take McConnell and Palmquist out, Spencer to 28-30, Mulcahy to 20-25, Hyatt to 8-10, ..... that's 60-65 minutes available at the 1-4 spots. Add 23-25 to Griffiths, 8-10 more to Simpson, 8-10 more to Mag, and that leaves about ~25 available minutes left over for a portal PG and a fight for minutes among NDongo, Chol, and Davis.

And the minutes will almost certainly be different in November than they are in March, as players find themselves moving up/down the rotation as they and others progress.

 

[needmorecowbell]

Ok, if you get a portal PG and Gavin sees good minutes whose minutes get cut? Paul’s.

The team is probably deeper if they add a starting guard and two freshman contributors. Assuming they get a very good transfer guard, that transfer gets most of Caleb’s minutes (say 28 mins). Paul probably gets the most mins on the team at 30-ish. Early in the season Gavin gets 15-20 mins and Ndongo gets 10-15. That comes from the outgoing transfers and Hyatt. Every team cuts the bench late in the season. When that happens I could see…

Mulcahy - 30
Cliff - 30
Spencer - 28
Transfer Guard - 28
Mag - 28
Simpson - 23
Gavin - 15
Woolfolk - 10
Ndongo - 8 (may not play as most coaches cut to 8)

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

Reading people in various threads, including this one, say that Paul isn't good or there are no minutes really make me wonder if these were also the same people that thought Hyatt should start over Mag.

 

[MiloTalon13]

Reading people in various threads, including this one, say that Paul isn't good or there are no minutes really make me wonder if these were also the same people that thought Hyatt should start over Mag.

I don’t think Paul wasn’t good. The minutes won’t be there for him because the players taking the minutes are better or a better fit for the team next season

Paul was a good player on a team that missed the NCAA tournament and had one of the worst offenses among high major basketball teams. Next year neither of those things will be repeated because better players will get the minutes he got this past season

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I don’t think Paul wasn’t good. The minutes won’t be there for him because the players taking the minutes are better or a better fit for the team next season

Paul was a good player on a team that missed the NCAA tournament and had one of the worst offenses among high major basketball teams. Next year neither of those things will be repeated because better players will get the minutes he got this past season

I keep going back to Paul’s stat line as a frosh. That was with transfer JY and veteran PG Geo Baker on the roster. Along with Caleb and and Tez. How many minutes did he play that year?

And you really think he’s going to end up with less minutes than he played that year? I’m just not seeing it. GG will be an incoming frosh. You’ve never even seen him play at the college level and yet you are speculating Pike is have a “talk” with Paul about phasing out his minutes to either GG or some unknown transfer we haven’t even landed yet. Meanwhile we start out with the task of replacing 33 minutes of Caleb’s time.

 

[MiloTalon13]

I keep going back to Paul’s stat line as a frosh. That was with transfer JY and veteran PG Geo Baker on the roster. Along with Caleb and and Tez. How many minutes did he play that year?

And you really think he’s going to end up with less minutes than he played that year? I’m just not seeing it. GG will be an incoming frosh. You’ve never even seen him play at the college level and yet you are speculating Pike is have a “talk” with Paul about phasing out his minutes to either GG or some unknown transfer we haven’t even landed yet. Meanwhile we start out with the task of replacing 33 minutes of Caleb’s time.

Yes GG will be better next season than Paul would be next season and a guy like Noah Fernandes will be more valuable on the court with GG and Cam and the rest of the team Rutgers will have next season than Paul would be. They are not looking for a backup PG, which should tell you this.
Paul would not be better at the 2 or 3 or 4 than Cam/GG/Simpaon/Mag/Ndongo (nor would Hyatt).

I'm not taking anything away from Paul's past which is commendable/remarkable/outstanding.
We have better players next year for the team we'll have next year.

 

[Nycrusupporter]

Agree with everything you said except that "Derek is a poor ballhandler and turns the ball over way too much under pressure." The facts just don't support you. Derek averaged .9 turnovers and 20 min per game. Paul by comparison averaged 2 TO's and 32 min per game. If you extrapolated Derek to Paul's minutes he would have only 1.4 TO's per game. The visual of Paul vs Minnesota in the waning minutes (a four year senior starter) panicking when he saw defenders approaching and throwing away a pass that got picked off leading to the game winning shot is still seared in my brai

The team is probably deeper if they add a starting guard and two freshman contributors. Assuming they get a very good transfer guard, that transfer gets most of Caleb’s minutes (say 28 mins). Paul probably gets the most mins on the team at 30-ish. Early in the season Gavin gets 15-20 mins and Ndongo gets 10-15. That comes from the outgoing transfers and Hyatt. Every team cuts the bench late in the season. When that happens I could see…

Mulcahy - 30
Cliff - 30
Spencer - 28
Transfer Guard - 28
Mag - 28
Simpson - 23
Gavin - 15
Woolfolk - 10
Ndongo - 8 (may not play as most coaches cut to 8)

If Gavin only gets 15 minutes a game he will be in the portal with a ton of high major suitors telling him he is a starting lock for 30-32 minutes a game, and they will tell him he would have had that in 23-24 if he had gone there instead.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Yes GG will be better next season than Paul would be next season and a guy like Noah Fernandes will be more valuable on the court with GG and Cam and the rest of the team Rutgers will have next season than Paul would be. They are not looking for a backup PG, which should tell you this.
Paul would not be better at the 2 or 3 or 4 than Cam/GG/Simpaon/Mag/Ndongo (nor would Hyatt).

I'm not taking anything away from Paul's past which is commendable/remarkable/outstanding.
We have better players next year for the team we'll have next year.

I think the jury is still out on Simpson being a 30 mpg kid. We’ll see. We desperately needed a slasher at the end of the season. One with speed who could score in iso. Tez would’ve been a savior for the last 10 or so games too. In fact, he would’ve actually been a big help all season. I don’t think Tez would’ve been nearly as helpful to the prior year’s roster with Geo though. It really depends on the type of team we have how important Simpson will be. If we have other guys who can finish well in transition (we get one back in Mag) and penetrate some in iso, Simpson’s importance is reduced. He’s not a good shooter nor has he shown elite distribution skills yet. Let’s see what happens.

Frosh are always unknown entities until they get to college. Look at Jaden Jones. Most 4 stars do not come in as starters off the bat on tournament caliber teams. It could happen but it’s not that likely. And we have not yet added a transfer.

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

I don’t think Paul wasn’t good. The minutes won’t be there for him because the players taking the minutes are better or a better fit for the team next season

Paul was a good player on a team that missed the NCAA tournament and had one of the worst offenses among high major basketball teams. Next year neither of those things will be repeated because better players will get the minutes he got this past season

I think what many of you fail to appreciate is that if the roster is deeper then everyone will be playing less minutes because you don’t have to rely so heavily on your starters. There are easily 20-25 minutes for Paul next season at multiple positions.

 

[RU84]

I’m fine with Paul seeing 20 min in a utility role but if he ends up logging the 30-35 min he’s been getting this is probably another NIT team.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

He will probably play 25-27 minutes which is what he would’ve played this past year if we weren’t so thin.

 

[RUChoppin]

I think what many of you fail to appreciate is that if the roster is deeper then everyone will be playing less minutes because you don’t have to rely so heavily on your starters. There are easily 20-25 minutes for Paul next season at multiple positions.

The only player that we'd probably be leaning on for 30 minutes would be Omoruyi (should he come back). If Mulcahy returns and we grab a portal PG, there should be enough depth that no other position should need to average more than 28, even after the rotation shrinks to 8-9 guys.

Mulcahy's value in practice and in the locker room instilling Pikiell's culture and expectations would be as (or maybe even more) valuable to next year's team as his play on the court. I hope he returns to compete, and pushes the other guards to get better and earn any minutes they get over him - it will make everyone better.

 

[Joey Bacala]

Brian also made it NFL as FB, where it was his natural fit. Brian was going to be a Starting FB and be involved as every down back.

Simpson is no Ray Rice................

Not true. Leonard made a huge mistake IMO by NOT being a FB - his sweet spot - and dropping weight down to 225 in the hopes of being an every down RB instead of a FB in the NFL.

 

[Scangg]

The team is probably deeper if they add a starting guard and two freshman contributors. Assuming they get a very good transfer guard, that transfer gets most of Caleb’s minutes (say 28 mins). Paul probably gets the most mins on the team at 30-ish. Early in the season Gavin gets 15-20 mins and Ndongo gets 10-15. That comes from the outgoing transfers and Hyatt. Every team cuts the bench late in the season. When that happens I could see…

Mulcahy - 30
Cliff - 30
Spencer - 28
Transfer Guard - 28
Mag - 28
Simpson - 23
Gavin - 15
Woolfolk - 10
Ndongo - 8 (may not play as most coaches cut to 8)

Gavin over 15 and Ndongo isn't going to get cut from the rotation. These 2 are both very good and will force their way onto the court

 

[MiloTalon13]

Gavin over 15 and Ndongo isn't going to get cut from the rotation. These 2 are both very good and will force their way onto the court

Early in the season is the easiest part of the season, those 2 get good minutes right from the start.
Might not be like that if our first games were league games, but they're not.

 

[needmorecowbell]

Gavin over 15 and Ndongo isn't going to get cut from the rotation. These 2 are both very good and will force their way onto the court

There is probably a very good chance Gavin plays more and/or Ndongo finds mins. The problem is, in an 8 man rotation who is being dropped? Practically every team runs an 8 man rotation outside of when they have foul trouble. I already dropped Hyatt completely when the bench gets reduced and I don’t know that Pike will do that.

 

[Scangg]

There is probably a very good chance Gavin plays more and/or Ndongo finds mins. The problem is, in an 8 man rotation who is being dropped?

I think we'll see a 9 man with a little less work load on the top of the minutes... plus potential injuries

 

[MiloTalon13]

There is probably a very good chance Gavin plays more and/or Ndongo finds mins. The problem is, in an 8 man rotation who is being dropped?

The simplest answer is that Paul and Hyatt won't be back.

 

[willisneverrana43]

Players and coaches must just roll their eyes reading these threads, if they read them at all.

 

[Scangg]

The simplest answer is that Paul and Hyatt won't be back.

Even if you think they both leave, we would add portal players to replace them who would have to be considered for the rotation

 

[needmorecowbell]

I think we'll see a 9 man with a little less work load on the top of the minutes... plus potential injuries

That’s what you want but most coaches aren’t comfortable running 9 players in the back quarter of the season. 8 man rotations are most common.

 

[MiloTalon13]

Even if you think they both leave, we would add portal players to replace them who would have to be considered for the rotation

We could add a 2023 project like Juslin Bodo AND one 2024 commit who comes early.

 

[Scangg]

We could add a 2023 project like Juslin Bodo AND one 2024 commit who comes early.

I'd love to add Bodo but doesn't seem like there is any talk about him anymore so not sure we are really pursuing him

Odd to me that he isn't committed and more sought after

 

[njxchange]

Agreed on Gavin - he's such a shooter the other parts of his game get overlooked - he's an athlete and a creator too.

Your lineup is not even considering a transfer portal PG starting over Simpson.
Bench = Ndongo, Simpson, Wolff, Hyatt and Paul? + Davis and possibly another portal guy or two?

If they get a commit from a portal PG AND a portal wing or 3/4 - that's a sign Paul and Hyatt will not be back (and I think that will happen).

hoping we pick up Fernandez as PG or another PG that will start for us. looks like Pike really has his eyes set on picking up PG from transfer than Big man. Im seeing Rutgers being involved in bunch of transfer PGs.

Ideal would be

PG = Noah: 25mins (or another transfer PG)
SG = Cam: 28-30mins
SG = Gavin: 25mins
F / PF = Mag: 30-33mins
C = Cliff: 30-33mins

1st off bench = Simpson: 25mins
Bench = Wolf: 20-25mins
Bench = NDongo: 10-15mins
Bench = Hyatt: 5-10mins
bench = JaMichael: 5mins

thats pretty good rotation.
didnt do exact calculation on minutes (jfyi)

 

[AreYouNUTS]

If we can get early-mid season "good" Paul back, it would be HUGE!

You mean pre-multiple injury Paul? With his skills and experience a healthy Paul is going to be an unbelievably huge asset to this team next season. So many here are underestimating his value and it’s a head-shaking.

 

[needmorecowbell]

You mean pre-multiple injury Paul? With his skills and experience a healthy Paul is going to be an unbelievably huge asset to this team next season. So many here are underestimating his value and it’s a head-shaking.

Correct. A healthy Paul will lead the team in minutes along with Cliff. Coaches rely on guys with experience. That’s how it works. He spent 4 years in Pike’s system. He knows what Pike wants better than anyone. I feel like this is the Mag vs Hyatt discussion from last year. Pike wants experienced guys who play defense. Paul, Cliff, Mag and Spenser are going to play a TON.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Seems like the posters who were swearing Paul was gone and it was better for the team, just a couple of weeks ago, are very quiet these days.

 

[njxchange]

Seems like the posters who were swearing Paul was gone and it was better for the team, just a couple of weeks ago, are very quiet these days.

I still think he leaves. If he leaves it will be better for himself. If he stays and is willing to take reserve roll of Wing for the better of the team, thats HUGE plus for Rutgers.
If he stays and Pike still gives him Starting PG with 30mins+ thats not the best option for Rutgers.

 

[MiloTalon13]

Seems like the posters who were swearing Paul was gone and it was better for the team, just a couple of weeks ago, are very quiet these days.

I don't swear he's gone, but I think he will be.
I also think we'll be a better team this year without Pual than we were last year with Paul and that's not a reflection on him, it's because we got better players overall.

 

[needmorecowbell]

I still think he leaves. If he leaves it will be better for himself. If he stays and is willing to take reserve roll of Wing for the better of the team, thats HUGE plus for Rutgers.
If he stays and Pike still gives him Starting PG with 30mins+ thats not the best option for Rutgers.

You are so lost. Before Mag’s injury this team was on fire when Paul and Caleb were healthy. That team would have been a 5-7 seed. And yes Paul was playing 30+ minutes during that stretch.

 

[MiloTalon13]

hoping we pick up Fernandez as PG or another PG that will start for us. looks like Pike really has his eyes set on picking up PG from transfer than Big man. Im seeing Rutgers being involved in bunch of transfer PGs.

Ideal would be

PG = Noah: 25mins (or another transfer PG)
SG = Cam: 28-30mins
SG = Gavin: 25mins
F / PF = Mag: 30-33mins
C = Cliff: 30-33mins

1st off bench = Simpson: 25mins
Bench = Wolf: 20-25mins
Bench = NDongo: 10-15mins
Bench = Hyatt: 5-10mins
bench = JaMichael: 5mins

thats pretty good rotation.
didnt do exact calculation on minutes (jfyi)

Gavin and Noah more minutes. Mag, Simpson and Wolf less.
My dare to dream is that Ace reclasses and gets any minutes Hyatt would have gotten