Reminder: This is a 5-Yr. Construction Project

[albanyknight]

Reading some of the panicked posts about recruiting and the lack of news and excitement coming out of the football program I believe is very, very premature.

Personally, I think it is a good thing that Ash is keeping a lid on things. In the past there were way too many leaks and rumors making its way to the public.

I think Coach Kill is going to be a game changer and if we can just show a modicum of improvement on the field this year, we should end up with a good recruiting class.

Keep the faith folks. We are going to be just fine.

 

[RU85inFla]

Who says its a five year project. I know Ash is not telling himself that. At the end of year 3 if he has not shown significant progress he will not get a raise and will be a lame duck. He is not getting an extension unless he shows improvement and that frankly has to happen to some discernible level this year.

There is not a program that is a 5 year rebuild in the country. Rutgers with its talent pool and B1G membership for sure isn't the exception.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Spot-on but don't tell the Never-Ashers, as they put full blame on him and his staff, not the disaster created by the previous regime despite many of us predicting them impending issues, and disaster, years ago.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Who says its a five year project. I know Ash is not telling himself that. At the end of year 3 if he has not shown significant progress he will not get a raise and will be a lame duck. He is not getting an extension unless he shows improvement and that frankly has to happen to some discernible level this year.


There is not a program that is a 5 year rebuild in the country. Rutgers with its talent pool and B1G membership for sure isn't the exception.

I think all want, and expect, "improvement" come year 3 no question.

 

[newwavedave1]

Steady improvement, both on the field and recruiting, is all that I'm hoping for. That starts this season.

 

[Block R]

Who says its a five year project. I know Ash is not telling himself that. At the end of year 3 if he has not shown significant progress he will not get a raise and will be a lame duck. He is not getting an extension unless he shows improvement and that frankly has to happen to some discernible level this year.

There is not a program that is a 5 year rebuild in the country. Rutgers with its talent pool and B1G membership for sure isn't the exception.

I'm sure Ash has a long-term plan on which he's executing and expectations of himself and of the program. To argue whether it is a 3-year, 5-year or 7-year rebuild, first we need to agree what defines a rebuild, the milestones on which we success would be measured and when it is complete. Improvement by end of year 3 ≠ mission accomplished nor does it mean the "rebuild" will be complete but I think most would agree it has to be one of the metrics. I would say a bowl game in year 3 would check the improvement box and possibly warrant discussion of an extension for Ash (queue the Jim Mora meme, I know we're a long way from there).

If we don't make a bowl game in year 3, the circumstances would need to be examined. Was there substantial progress from year 2? Were there injuries at key positions? Were there multiple blowouts? At what level are we recruiting?

 

[S_Janowski]

Same concept can basically applied for the BUILD Fund which everyone loves to freak out about.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

As bad as last year was... I think we can make a bowl game in year 3. This is the last year with a truly brutal schedule besides the Division games.

This year not so much... but I am just hoping for more than 2 wins, if Grant and the rest can stay healthy, I think we can get more than two wins this upcoming season.

 

[RUsojo]

It's a rebuild because of what was left for him when he took over (or lack there of). Flood did not have a rebuild. Ash does. That changes expectations. Hes off to a great start off the field and so is the program itself. He has a big hole to climb out of and realistically he's without a rope to pull himself until year 3.

 

[bigmatt718]

It's a rebuild because of what was left for him when he took over (or lack there of). Flood did not have a rebuild. Ash does. That changes expectations. Hes off to a great start off the field and so is the program itself. He has a big hole to climb out of and realistically he's without a rope to pull himself until year 3.

Exactly. Flood was handed the most talented team in RU history, which is why he never was given a grace period and was accountable Day 1 for wins and losses. Ash was handed the smoldering crater left by Flood, which gives him at least until 2018 before W's/L's are what he is graded on.

 

[MYHATINTHERING]

He's gone after this year with 3 wins

 

[RU85inFla]

Listen, 99.9% of new coaches face a rebuild. None face a 5 yr. rebuild. Nobody is arguing whether he was left with a rebuild or not.

 

[scarletbergen]

A bowl game in year three is too much to demand. Steady progress in all areas in year two and three should be all that is required. With slow but steady progress, the wins will slowly come, the blowouts will end, recruiting will get easier and the circle will be built.

Remember the schedule, the schedule, the schedule. Patience!

 

[RU85inFla]

A bowl game in year three is too much to demand. Steady progress in all areas in year two and three should be all that is required. With slow but steady progress, the wins will slowly come, the blowouts will end, recruiting will get easier and the circle will be built.

Remember the schedule, the schedule, the schedule. Patience!

No bowl in year 3 and he is gone. Simple as that.

 

[Block R]

now that's out of the way, he's not winning more than 3 maaaayyyyyybe 4 games this year.

At this point I'm thinking 4 wins this year is most likely. So are you going to fire Ash if we go 4-8 because surely Hobbs will not?

 

[MYHATINTHERING]

No bowl in year 3 and he is gone. Simple as that.

I think he looks to leave at end of year if he doesn't win more than 4 games or goes 0-fer in the Big. He would not want to sully his rep. It would be the smart play on his part imho

 

[MYHATINTHERING]

At this point I'm thinking 4 wins this year is most likely. So are you going to fire Ash if we go 4-8 because surely Hobbs will not?

I don't think he wins 4 games to be honest. We really are not a good team. If he struggles or looks poor in the gimmee games and we get crushed everywhere else, I could see some talks

 

[SJScarlet]

No bowl in year 3 and he is gone. Simple as that.

I don't agree with that necessarily being the outcome. I think if they win 4-5 this year with limited blowouts, and win 5 next year with very limited blowouts, it would be very hard for Hobbs to pull the trigger on that. Now, if that is how the next two seasons go, I do think we'll be in a very bad place competitively moving forward and it will just be a matter of time. But Ash would get a 4th year.

 

[Block R]

I think he looks to leave at end of year if he doesn't win more than 4 games or goes 0-fer in the Big. He would not want to sully his rep. It would be the smart play on his part imho

Smart play? How many head coaches take over a program in the dumps and then leave of their own volition after 2 losing seasons? He's already proven to be an upper echelon DC and if it doesn't work out as a HC, he can always go back to being a DC like many other HCs who tried and failed before him.

 

[RUsojo]

No bowl in year 3 and he is gone. Simple as that.

From the horses mouth; no he is not gone after 3 years.

I think you need a timeout. No need to act like a child

then again, 'BIGMatt'....maybe you do have some penis envy issues with a name like that..lol

we are not a good team, hard schedule and a coach that has yet to show he can coach. If he struggles mightily this year, which he will, he'll look to leave or hopefully, the administration eats this experiment and tries to hire a known commodity

how many games before he realized he had to make half time adjustments?

You are right that we are not a good team and we have a hard schedule. You expect a good team against a hard schedule in two years??

I think you're both a little out of touch. But your hearts in the right place.

 

[Block R]

I don't think he wins 4 games to be honest. We really are not a good team. If he struggles or looks poor in the gimmee games and we get crushed everywhere else, I could see some talks

There are already people "talking" on this board after last year so sure, if we go 3-9 or 2-10 there will be more people "talking". Hobbs isn't going to make any moves until at least year 3 if it comes down to that and Ash sure as hell isn't walking away a la DM so it's kinda pointless to be having this conversation right now.

 

[MYHATINTHERING]

There are already people "talking" on this board after last year so sure, if we go 3-9 or 2-10 there will be more people "talking". Hobbs isn't going to make any moves until at least year 3 if it comes down to that and Ash sure as hell isn't walking away a la DM so it's kinda pointless to be having this conversation right now.

we'll see

I was called nuts too when I said Greg out in 2yrs of Pros

Ash doesn't have it or rather, hasn't shown us anything really. There is no reason to think all but 1 game is a gimmee.

 

[RU85inFla]

From the horses mouth; no he is not gone after 3 years.

From the horses mouth; sure he is.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

There are already people "talking" on this board after last year so sure, if we go 3-9 or 2-10 there will be more people "talking". Hobbs isn't going to make any moves until at least year 3 if it comes down to that and Ash sure as hell isn't walking away a la DM so it's kinda pointless to be having this conversation right now.

I am pretty sure that the Al Golden fanboys were starting those talks as soon as he wasn't hired.

 

[RUsojo]

From the horses mouth; sure he is.

I think you want to fire him after two seasons with no talent and two top 10 SOS. Most rational people know that any coach put in his position will not be fired in such a "no win" scenario.

So, it is 99.9% results in year 3 will be better than year 2. You fire a coach after showing improvement once his recruits get on the field? No. It is more than reasonable (see: actually happened) that when searching for a candidate the interview included conversations re: current resources and immediate program outlook.

You are smart enough to see this. But you're enjoying stirring the pot. This back and forth is going to go on for another football season and through next offseason. I'm looking forward to it.

 

[seels2662]

I totally agree its a 5 year project.

HOWEVER, and I cannot stress this enough, in order for it to be a five year project the recruiting has to start NOW. You cannot be one of the worst recruiting classes three out of the first four years and then in year five all of a sudden be a winner. Last year was a decent class. This year has to match that. So does next year. If that happens then we will see the turnaround.

 

[MoobyCow]

I don't think he's gone after 3 years and no bowl, but his job is very hard at that point. 4 wins this year and 5 next... I think there's a plausible path to success from there.

And, yes, I think it's a 5 year build, but that doesn't mean you can get there without visible progress in years 2, 3, 4. If RU craps the bed on the field this year, he's a dead man walking as he hasn't shown the ability to recruit without on the field results. He needs something to sell, and if he doesn't have it by the end of this year his roster isn't going to be good enough to compete in years 3, 4, 5.

 

[RU85inFla]

I think you want to fire him after two seasons with no talent and two top 10 SOS. Most rational people know that any coach put in his position will not be fired in such a "no win" scenario.

So, it is 99.9% results in year 3 will be better than year 2. You fire a coach after showing improvement once his recruits get on the field? No. It is more than reasonable (see: actually happened) that when searching for a candidate the interview included conversations re: current resources and immediate program outlook.

You are smart enough to see this.

I Never said after 2 years.

I was the first response after the OP and said it's not a 5 year plan. I implied that any smart person would expect an extension after year 3 and before year 4 is complete if the coach is to have a fighting chance of success when originally signed to a 5 year contract.

I truly believe Ash will get this treatment also. However, to be honest, if he is not at least close to a bowl by the end of year 3 I can see him gone. I can see him gone because NJ recruiting will have to be saved.

Listen, the cupboard was bare when Ash got here. He and his staff did not have the juice to attract anyone late in his first recruiting class. Last years class was good but the back end was filled with a ton of question marks. This year's class is a huge question mark - and I know NJ is down so that makes it harder.

If we have another horrible year, I suspect recruiting will again lag as we enter year 3. It will get ugly quick then.

 

[BlockR]

there's is zero way Hobbs and fan base gives Ash 5 years to post a winning record. RU cant afford empty stadium and more bad press.Flood dragged the program backwards his last two years in many ways,so to add 5 years on top of that ,wont happen. Ash is already on Coaches hot seat site listed at #12 nationaly,is that right,probably not as of today,but thats national perspective of program .

 

[HeyHuey]

Gary had 5 years.

 

[bigmatt718]

No sane AD is firing a coach after 2 years outside of scandal. 3 years is possible, however, that I agree with. Bet most people were ready to run Schiano out on a rail too after his first few years.

 

[BlockR]

No sane AD is firing a coach after 2 years outside of scandal. 3 years is possible, however, that I agree with. Bet most people were ready to run Schiano out on a rail too after his first few years.

not true..Schiano started bringing in Fla recruits with talent,and creating a buzz for the program in year number #3,by year four you could see the talent and program was moving upwards..those sitting in the stands that day in the stadium knew it was happening.
2004 Schiano Year#4 beating Michigan State..
https://www.onthebanks.com/2015/10/...gan-state-spartans-brian-leonard-greg-schiano

The first time real hope and real expectations were placed on the Rutgers football program in the modern era was 2004. Greg Schiano was entering his fourth season as head coach and was coming off a 5-7 season the year before. Rutgers had equaled five wins just three times in the previous fifteen seasons, and eclipsed that win total only once. Chop nation was in full "drinking the kool-aid" mode with Schiano. At this point, expectations heading into the 2004 season were that we would finally make a bowl game. I repeat, MAKE A BOWL GAME! That was like making the Super Bowl for Rutgers football back then. Which was only a decade ago, before Rutgers went to nine bowl games in the last ten season

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

there's is zero way Hobbs and fan base gives Ash 5 years to post a winning record. RU cant afford empty stadium and more bad press.Flood dragged the program backwards his last two years in many ways,so to add 5 years on top of that ,wont happen. Ash is already on Coaches hot seat site listed at #12 nationaly,is that right,probably not as of today,but thats national perspective of program .

No one is saying that. 5 years to rebuild into a team that wins 6-8 games a year.

We used to go to a bowl game every year until Flood tanked the whole program.

That is what we are trying to get back to and hopefully sometimes even better.

 

[DJ Spanky]

Gary had 5 years.

GS had very little to start with: few players who would be considered "division 1", the smallest stadium in Div. 1A, piss poor academic support (one of the reasons Graber failed), dreadful facilities, faculty actively campaigning against the program (Rutgers 1000 anyone?), poor S&C, etc.

 

[MoobyCow]

GS had very little to start with: few players who would be considered "division 1", the smallest stadium in Div. 1A, piss poor academic support (one of the reasons Graber failed), dreadful facilities, faculty actively campaigning against the program (Rutgers 1000 anyone?), poor S&C, etc.

Yeah, I get it from an 'on the field' perspective, but Ash has an actual functioning AD department (comparatively anyway), decent facilities, a fanbase that has not yet been completely decimated, a real conference, a somewhat recent history of success. Recruits who can remember RU being a reasonable team during their lifetime, a good amount NFL players he point to as having come through RU, TV time to sell, big time donors stepping up with practice and weight room facilities...

Ash v Schiano conversation makes no sense. Schiano had to spend a huge amount of his time doing non-football stuff.

 

[DJ Spanky]

Yeah, I get it from an 'on the field' perspective, but Ash has an actual functioning AD department (comparatively anyway), decent facilities, a fanbase that has not yet been completely decimated, a real conference, a somewhat recent history of success. Recruits who can remember RU being a reasonable team during their lifetime, a good amount NFL players he point to as having come through RU, TV time to sell, big time donors stepping up with practice and weight room facilities...

Ash v Schiano conversation makes no sense. Schiano had to spend a huge amount of his time doing non-football stuff.

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.............................I think we kind of agree with each other. I was trying to point out everything Schiano didn't have that Ash now has.

 

[MoobyCow]

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.............................I think we kind of agree with each other. I was trying to point out everything Schiano didn't have that Ash now has.

I know, I was agreeing with you, and adding detail. Maybe should have gone with 'yup' instead of 'yeah'. Yeah comes off as sarcastic.

 

[DJ Spanky]

I know, I was agreeing with you, and adding detail. Maybe should have gone with 'yup' instead of 'yeah'. Yeah comes off as sarcastic.

Yeah. Oops, I meant Yup!

 

[albanyknight]

Who says its a five year project. I know Ash is not telling himself that. At the end of year 3 if he has not shown significant progress he will not get a raise and will be a lame duck. He is not getting an extension unless he shows improvement and that frankly has to happen to some discernible level this year.

There is not a program that is a 5 year rebuild in the country. Rutgers with its talent pool and B1G membership for sure isn't the exception.

I too fully expect to see significant progress at the end of year three but in 2020, you will still be playing mostly with the 2016 and 2017 classes. By years 4 and 5, Ash will have re-cycled his first two classes, should have much better recruits and be ready to compete with the Nebraska's and Wisconsin's of the world.

But it isn't going to happen by the end of next season.

 

[e5fdny]

Is Ash our Hayden Fry?

Is Lewis his Chuck Long?

Has the culture change taken hold? Or at least begun to put down roots?

Stay tuned Rutgers fans!