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Replace the RAC?

Colonel is right. There is no Pernetti Plan. There was a feasibility study conducted by Michael Graves that was primarily focused on an addition to the exterior of the RAC to provide practice facilities and a new entry way. The feasibility study also looked at the feasibility of adding additional premium seating to the arena.

Graves provided a bunch of concept illustrations which were included into a brochure to generate donor interest. None of those concept illustrations were actually architectural plans or necessarily feasible. All of them were different. One illustration showed the student section with two tiers and entry tunnels. Another showed the student section essentially the same as it is now, with 8 additional rows in the same amount of space. Another illustration replaced the old section 118 with premium seating with club space behind it. Another illustration detailed seating for the 100 level sidelines, but showed 200 fewer seats than exist now.

So what does the Graves feasibility study tell us? It tells us that Rutgers can expand the exterior of the RAC, adding amenities into the expansion. Rutgers can also add practice space and student athlete amenities into the expansion, but that is probably not needed with the new practice facility. The feasibility study also indicates that there is limited premium seating in the RAC (as it existed at the time), but the opportunities to add premium seating is limited, with Sec 118 being the best option and adding floor seating by moving the 100-level sections back (but that would reduce the number of 100-level seats available).

So anyone who says "Let's build the Pernetti Plan" doesn't know what they are talking about, because there was no plan. Sure there are a bunch of different illustrations, but none of them are real. They are just starting points for discussion. Sure, you can suggest that Rutgers expand the RAC to the front and sides, but it is not like there are a set of plans sitting in a drawer on how to do that.
If what you're truly stating is true then I stand to be corrected. But with that said, I don't care at this point. In that rendering, if that is possible, I like what Graves did there. My bottom line, is I don't care where the idea came from. I care about retaining the RAC, adding 2,000 to 2,500 seats, expand the conconcourse, add bathrooms and change the exterior to make it more appealing.
 
The fans make a difference because the building is perfect for keeping in sound. That's why 8k sound like 15.
and why does the word "sterile" mean the place is not perfect for sound reflection? If you want it multi-use, like for concerts, you work to eliminate that "feature". Whatever shape the building, you can hang structures that can shift between sound reflecting and dampening. Rutgers has a great engineering school.. engineer that.

It was a false choice... current old RAC or sterile new NBA "experience"
 
Keep the RAC! Just need a few seats (1000 to 2000), nice big entrance and a lot of bathrooms and you have basketball perfection. Big round areana's are a thing of the past!
 
For many years the RAC was not an intimidating place to play. Many years.
Exactly. It's the people, not the building that make it a home court advantage. We would be plenty loud and intimidating if our home games were in Cure Arena in Trenton and we were a winning team.
 
If what you're truly stating is true then I stand to be corrected. But with that said, I don't care at this point. In that rendering, if that is possible, I like what Graves did there. My bottom line, is I don't care where the idea came from. I care about retaining the RAC, adding 2,000 to 2,500 seats, expand the conconcourse, add bathrooms and change the exterior to make it more appealing.

Adding something exterior to the current building footprint can add fan amenities, including concessions, bathrooms, and concourse space. That part is fairly easy to do. It just costs money.

Adding 2000 to 2500 seats is not feasible. That is a 25%-30% increase in capacity. If you replicate the student section in place of Sec 118, that is only 1500 seats. But if you are considering those premium seating, you would want actual seats, not bleachers, so you could only fit about 1200 seats. That would also mean eliminating the handicapped seating and glass office area over the concourse.

Adding seats to the open corners by the student section is limited. Although that space seems huge, because of the posts there is actually very little space where you can see the court. Go to that area next home game (or stand in the opposite corners on the concourse) and you will see what I mean.

The real seating need at the RAC is additional premium seating. So that probably means converting the glass offices to club space. Also, any reconfiguration of the arena would have to include improvements for TV broadcasts.

In reality, if Rutgers were to look to reconfigure seating in the RAC, you are looking at spending a lot of money, and the best options would only get you about 750 to 1000 additional seats.
 
"hey we have one massive asset for home games..let's completely get rid of that advantage"

Idiots
 
Adding something exterior to the current building footprint can add fan amenities, including concessions, bathrooms, and concourse space. That part is fairly easy to do. It just costs money.

Adding 2000 to 2500 seats is not feasible. That is a 25%-30% increase in capacity. If you replicate the student section in place of Sec 118, that is only 1500 seats. But if you are considering those premium seating, you would want actual seats, not bleachers, so you could only fit about 1200 seats. That would also mean eliminating the handicapped seating and glass office area over the concourse.

Adding seats to the open corners by the student section is limited. Although that space seems huge, because of the posts there is actually very little space where you can see the court. Go to that area next home game (or stand in the opposite corners on the concourse) and you will see what I mean.

The real seating need at the RAC is additional premium seating. So that probably means converting the glass offices to club space. Also, any reconfiguration of the arena would have to include improvements for TV broadcasts.

In reality, if Rutgers were to look to reconfigure seating in the RAC, you are looking at spending a lot of money, and the best options would only get you about 750 to 1000 additional seats.

If you look at the rendering from the architects, it shows the student section starting much closer to the court (like it used to) and at what looks to be a steeper pitch, which will add some height, i.e., quite a few more rows, overall. I have no idea if those drawings are accurate or not, but if they are, between more rows and greater width (including filling in gaps), it's possible we'd get 750-1000 or so new seats in the renovated student section.
 
If you look at the rendering from the architects, it shows the student section starting much closer to the court (like it used to) and at what looks to be a steeper pitch, which will add some height, i.e., quite a few more rows, overall. I have no idea if those drawings are accurate or not, but if they are, between more rows and greater width (including filling in gaps), it's possible we'd get 750-1000 or so new seats in the renovated student section.
Numbers, this is what I saw too. But Upstream has a major point with the addition of a club section and the limitation of adding additional seats.
 
Adding something exterior to the current building footprint can add fan amenities, including concessions, bathrooms, and concourse space. That part is fairly easy to do. It just costs money.

Adding 2000 to 2500 seats is not feasible. That is a 25%-30% increase in capacity. If you replicate the student section in place of Sec 118, that is only 1500 seats. But if you are considering those premium seating, you would want actual seats, not bleachers, so you could only fit about 1200 seats. That would also mean eliminating the handicapped seating and glass office area over the concourse.

Adding seats to the open corners by the student section is limited. Although that space seems huge, because of the posts there is actually very little space where you can see the court. Go to that area next home game (or stand in the opposite corners on the concourse) and you will see what I mean.

The real seating need at the RAC is additional premium seating. So that probably means converting the glass offices to club space. Also, any reconfiguration of the arena would have to include improvements for TV broadcasts.

In reality, if Rutgers were to look to reconfigure seating in the RAC, you are looking at spending a lot of money, and the best options would only get you about 750 to 1000 additional seats.
Thanks for this thoughtful post. Frankly, I haven't been inside the RAC in a few years, because I live in California and when I visit, I've gone to several football games but not been able to see a BB game in several years. I'm wondering then, if there was a way to expand out behind both baskets from one end to the other to increase the trapezoid, without losing the overall space or loud acoustics. I'm sure an architect can figure that out, so that we can get a club section, premium seating and then finally additional seating so that the RAC can become more state of the art as well as increasing the seating capacity by 2,000-2500 seats, which I believe would be ideal.
 
If what you're truly stating is true then I stand to be corrected. But with that said, I don't care at this point. In that rendering, if that is possible, I like what Graves did there. My bottom line, is I don't care where the idea came from. I care about retaining the RAC, adding 2,000 to 2,500 seats, expand the conconcourse, add bathrooms and change the exterior to make it more appealing.
Concise statement as to what is needed, ie, more seats,more rest rooms .wider concourse and more modern exterior entrance .
 
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it depends on what else it would be used for besides hoops

- for hoops you can extend out the RAC to 12-14k seats with the same trapezoid design on the same location
- if adding concerts you may need a new structure
- wrestling / volleyball - all versions of the RAC can accommodate
- if add hockey you will need a full renovation

Best would be renovate and add a few thousand seats while also upgrading the entire experience for fans.

A new brunswick arena would be nice but since you have the Prudential Center so close you would need to limit it to about 14-15k seats. It may be a decent winter concert venue when the Garden State Arts Center can't host concerts. Plays would still be at the State Theater.
 
Would love to know what "klbathriins" are before we agree to double them, lol...
restrooms.. if I have grok'd that correctly.. I think he was trying to type bathrooms, but no one takes baths there.. come to think of it, no one rests there either.. I guess most people give their bladders a rest there
 
If you look at the rendering from the architects, it shows the student section starting much closer to the court (like it used to) and at what looks to be a steeper pitch, which will add some height, i.e., quite a few more rows, overall. I have no idea if those drawings are accurate or not, but if they are, between more rows and greater width (including filling in gaps), it's possible we'd get 750-1000 or so new seats in the renovated student section.
I'm not sure which "rendering from the architects" you are referring to. There were multiple conceptual drawings from Michael Graves, all of them different and none were based on actual plans.

Nonetheless, the current student section holds about 1500 seats. To add 750 seats means increasing the student section by 50%. I don't know how you add enough rows or flare out the upper rows enough to add another half of the section. I would guess that expanding the student section by 25% would be a challenge, and that would mean 375 seats.
 
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The 4 giant support pillars are a major issue.
YES! many times I have mentioned that removal of them has to be part of any expansion plan. Without them, you can do wrap-around seating in 2 levels. So hang a new roof supported externally. You basically build a new shell around the old building.. large enough to allow for new concourse, escalators, whatever is needed to modernize the place.
 
I was at a game at Assembly Hall in Indiana - it seems like a larger version of the RAC. Make the ends bigger and build out the front of the RAC on to that driveway in front. 12-13K is about right. A new 18,000 seat arena seems irresponsible with Pru Center and MSG not far away. A new 5,000 seat hockey arena would also be pretty cool.
Make that an 8,000 seat hockey arena and as Maranda Curtis Would day, I’m All In ! :Rutgers:CHOP:
 
I don't understand your comment. Do you doubt it would revitalize downtown NB or do you doubt it needs revitalization?
Have you witness the construction going in NB the last 10+ years? Revitalization is on full swing and then some. The growth that is occurring in NB is beyond a simple revitalization. The only thing the arena adds to downtown now is more traffic congestion.
 
You know what other arena is kind of a dump? Cameron Indoor Stadium. If Boston College played there instead of Duke it would be considered one of the worst arenas in D1.

They renovated it last decade to add a big hospitality area. This is the way to go. Duke basketball obviously generates more revenue than Rutgers so it might not be as opulent but if we're gonna spend money on the RAC then we should do something where we extend the footprint out toward Honors Plaza. This can be the new lobby/hospitality area.
 
A new brunswick arena would be nice but since you have the Prudential Center so close you would need to limit it to about 14-15k seats. It may be a decent winter concert venue when the Garden State Arts Center can't host concerts. Plays would still be at the State Theater.

Huge logistical challenge there. New Brunswick (and surrounding highways) can barely, if at all, handle a typical rush hour when school is in session. Even if RU bought the Sears site on route 1, it sits right at the route 18/route 1/NJ Turnpike junction. Ugghhh! I'm so glad I head north from New Brunswick on route 18 during afternoon rush.
 
I'm not sure which "rendering from the architects" you are referring to. There were multiple conceptual drawings from Michael Graves, all of them different and none were based on actual plans.

Nonetheless, the current student section holds about 1500 seats. To add 750 seats means increasing the student section by 50%. I don't know how you add enough rows or flare out the upper rows enough to add another half of the section. I would guess that expanding the student section by 25% would be a challenge, and that would mean 375 seats.
The one I posted on the previous page. As I said there, I'm not sure how feasible it is, but there's no question the student section starts much closer to the endline than it does now and looks to go much higher up and at a somewhat higher pitch than the current bleachers, which would give even more rows given the pitch of the trapezoid there. By eyeball it looks like about 50-60% more than the current student section, especially when including more width and the gaps. I understand these were conceptual design renderings and not formal engineering-vetted, basis-of-design drawings, but any good architectural firm ought to be able to conceptualize in the +/-10-20% range.
 
The one I posted on the previous page. As I said there, I'm not sure how feasible it is, but there's no question the student section starts much closer to the endline than it does now and looks to go much higher up and at a somewhat higher pitch than the current bleachers, which would give even more rows given the pitch of the trapezoid there. By eyeball it looks like about 50-60% more than the current student section, especially when including more width and the gaps. I understand these were conceptual design renderings and not formal engineering-vetted, basis-of-design drawings, but any good architectural firm ought to be able to conceptualize in the +/-10-20% range.
So enlarging that picture, it looks like there are 21 rows of seating indicated. The current student section has something like 25 or 26 rows. So the concept drawing is fewer seats. Plus you lose seats for the cut outs for the doorway tunnels to nowhere. Maybe the flareouts make up the lost seats. I don't know how you get a 50% increase from that drawing.

But back to reality. The current student section has 1500 seats. You can add rows in the front, and possibly flare out the sides (though the flareout would be very expensive for very few seats). I don't see all of that adding more than 25%, or 375 seats.

Maybe the student section could be replicated on the 118 side, but since Rutgers is looking to eventually add premium amenities there (see Politi's trapezoid article), that won't happen.
 
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