Did he interview better than the gymnastics coach ?
Rutgers athletic director Pat Hobbs abruptly resigns
- Thread starter Tango Two
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Interesting enough, the other party may have been the one to benefit most.
That is why, if completely consensual on her part- there isn’t much she could sue about.
Now, if Hobbs went to her and made a deal that he will double her salary for benefits or fire her for shitty performance unless she performed better elsewhere…then, it would be a real story
I am not a lawyer , but I am pretty sure it’s a textbook sexual harassment case no matter what you say here. She would win any suit
I don't think it matters who the aggressor is. Hobbs was the athletic director, And as such in a position of power.
If the coach came on to him he should be saying no, it's inappropriate for a variety of reasons, including the fact that I'm your boss, and ended it right there.
I'm going to guess that there's some way they could have gone to Holloway or legal or HR to admit they were having a relationship and get it on the record and sign whatever papers need to be signed in these situations, but I'm guessing that was not done either.
So, obviously something happened, people higher up than Pat found out about it, Pat got wind that they found out about it, and abruptly resigned. And the fact that he resigned citing his cardiac health and didn't have heart transplant the next day but instead flew to Ireland really does indicate that it probably was not a cardiac issue that caused him to abruptly resign.
I certainly could care less about a consensual relationship, but there are reasons why many places of employment prohibit employees from dating their boss. The perception of conflict of interest is unavoidable. Hobbs broke the rules, got caught and is no longer employed by Rutgers. There’s unlikely to be more to it than this but what exactly are you unhappy with?
The media is simply clarifying that an investigation is in fact ongoing which supports the reality that there was more to his abrupt resignation than an acute medical diagnosis. The Rutgers community would be doing and saying a lot more of this was simply about Hobbs stepping away fighting for his life through difficult health issues. Are you saying, that you think it should be Hobbs right for the Rutgers community to think that he resigned exclusively for serious health reasons rather than be aware that he was being investigated for doing something he wasn’t allowed to do per his contract? His personal life details is his own private business - but being AD is a public role. If you break the rules - you don’t have a right for that to stay private.
The Rutgers University policy strictly prohibits what is alleged between Hobbs & The coach
I'm not ruling out the latter heart issue, but it may not be as urgent as he made it sound.
Regardless, I don't understand all the hand-wringing over this by fans. It's small potatoes now that Hobbs resigned. This is not nearly th magnitude of the Northwestern scandal last year or the Penn State scandal. It's an internal personnel matter that was handled, and the AD resigned . Those that say it is embarrassing need to get a grip. Stuff happens. On a scale of 1 to 10 of scandal, this is a 4 in my book. It would be higher if the AD did not resign.
Can you quote the wording that prohibits "it" and define what "it" is?
I still don't know what is alleged. This NYPost story quotes Gov.Murphy as mentioning "..that was a pretty disgusting set of facts in the paper. We shall see.”
What set of "facts"?
I try to follow links to find the "consensual relationship policy" but they lead nowhere,, the para in the linked PDF does say this:
University Policy 60.1.32: Policy on Consensual Relationships in Academic Settings prohibits certain consensual relationships involving students and sets forth the required procedures employees must follow to report certain relationships and avoid/eliminate any related conflicts of interest.
In addition, the University also strongly discourages romantic, dating, intimate and/or sexual relationships between University employees where there is an imbalance of power because one individual is in a position to make decisions which may affect the educational opportunities,employment or career of the other. These relationships include supervisor/subordinate relationships and any other relationships between individuals wherein one individual has the power to make decisions that may have an impact, either direct or indirect, on the employment, career or educational opportunities of the other.
Employees in romantic, dating, intimate and/or sexual relationships must recuse themselves from decisions that may have a direct or indirect impact on the employee with whom they are ina relationship. Those who fail to do so and/or abuse their power in such circumstances may be found to have violated this Policy. An abuse of power may be, but is not limited to, promising an employee a promotion, or providing preferential academic or employment opportunities to an individual based on a romantic, dating, intimate and/or sexual relationship.
Any individual who engages in a romantic, dating, intimate and/or sexual relationship with someone over whom he or she has supervisory responsibility must inform his or her immediate supervisor of the relationship, so that the University can take action to make changes that eliminate the conflict of interest. If the University determines it is unable to eliminate the conflict of interest in a relationship between employees, the employees will be provided with the opportunity to decide which of the two will resign their employment. Failure to give proper notice to the appropriate supervisor may result in disciplinary action and/or the denial of legal representation and indemnification in the event that a lawsuit based on the relationship is filed.
Now.. that last para seems to be the key one. And Hobbs resigning could signal that procedures were followed. Of course, it might also be teh case that Hobbs did not inform his superiors at all and procedures were NOT followed and he resigned when found out.
In both cases, the end result is the same as if procedures were followed.. unless Hobbs subordinate is making a complaint about abuse of power. Which does not seem to be teh case.
Why spend any university resources on this at this point? Hobbs has resigned.
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what is alleged is a sexual relationship between Hobbs and the Volleyball coach. And a result of said relationship said volleyball coach kept her job and was rewarded with annual raises while the team itself was abysmal (something like a 7-48 record under her) along with no fewer than 7 former and current athletes coming forward to speak out on what a terrible coach she is.
That about sums everything up
Scroll down to:
IV Romantic, Dating, Intimate &/or Sexual relationships
It's part of the sexual harassment policy and it clearly states that somebody in the position of power can't be having a relationship with basically an underling because it can be considered harassment. Teacher/student or, in this case, AD/Coach
Tha is not what it says. You aren't quoting it, are you?
It says this:
Romantic, dating, intimate, and/or sexual relationships that occur in the student-teacher context or in the context of employment supervision or evaluation present special problems. These types of relationships are especially vulnerable to exploitation due to the difference in power and the respect and trust that are often present between a teacher and a student, a supervisor and a subordinate, or a senior and junior colleague in the same unit.
As a result of this power differential, a student or subordinate’s “voluntary” participation in a romantic, dating, intimate and/or sexual relationship with an individual in a position of power or authority does not alone demonstrate that the conduct was welcome. The attempts of a teacher to show a romantic interest in a student may constitute sexual harassment. Similarly, a supervisor’s display of a romantic interest in a subordinate may constitute sexual harassment.
MAY.. may constitute sexual harassment.
"strongly discouraged" would be enough for me to not do it... but not everyone. If Rutgers, or any organization, wanted to outlaw it they should just prohibit it without any qualifications.
Therefore.. it is not prohibited.. just discouraged. I quoted the rest of it in a previous reply and discussed it there. Hobbs had a responsibility to report the relationship, and if he did so Rutgers would then decide if they could find a way to remove teh power dynamic. Have the subordinate report to someone else. If not, one of them would have to resign. Hobbs resigned. Now, Hobbs may NOT have reported it. In that case Rutgers probably told Hobbs he had to resign... probably because they did not consider the annual bumps in salary for non-performing employees all that unusual 😲 Rutgers allowed Hopbbs to resign rather than be fired. But in either case, teh end result of Hobbs resignation should be the end of discussion.
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If she didn’t say anything, and he didn’t say anything, then we don’t even know they were anything more than work- acquaintances or maybe friends, perhaps. It’s just speculation by everyone, including the media.
And again, whatever it was, whatever happened or didn’t happen, we fans don’t need to know about it, and we don’t need to be speculating about it. We damn sure don’t need to be listening to anonymous trolls (@GotEmmm) who are so obviously motivated to sell a particular anti-Hobbs narrative. And the media doesn’t need to be trying to create a story out of it.
People should do a whole lot more of worrying about their own shit and leaving other people alone.
I know I’m not persuading anybody, the gossiping addiction ship sailed long ago. But I really hate this extremely nasty aspect of human behavior.
Are you honestly trying to play semantics over the word "May"? lol Lord....
We do not know any rules were broken. And I disagree that rule-breaking should be made public. If it materially impacts the public, then sure. Otherwise, it should remain private.
Tell me how any of the gossips in this or the other gossip thread materially benefit from knowing anything more than Hobbs retired and we’re hiring a new AD soon. I understand that prying into everybody’s private life has become normalized, but that doesn’t make it ethically or morally correct social behavior.
There's also a "strongly discouraged" in there too. Still not finding a must not or strictly prohibited.
Do you understand what the word MAY means? It is not "semantics". Bill Clinton famously played semantics with the words "is" and "sexual relations".
I did not choose the word MAY.. it is in the reference document. MAY means MAY or MAY NOT. It is very clear. It MAY.. it MIGHT BE sexual harassment. They would have used the word IS if they meant IS.
So.. why are you playing semantic games with the word "semantics"?
If you want to claim it WAS sexual harassment then say so.. and provide proof.
I don’t disagree with anything you said (except I don’t think too many people have been making it out to be a huge scandal). I for one am relieved something finally came out confirming there’s nothing illegal likely to come out. Really a question of Hobbs’ personal moral decisions - a whole big - “who cares” as far as the big picture reputation of RU athletics is concerned. Thank god.
I think most reasonable fans acknowledged the circumstances surrounding Hobbs departure were odd and now, admitting as much cannot be chastised by those who chose not acknowledge it as being an insensitive and/or bad fans. It’s time to move on.
What it looks like a what Rutgers has to investigate- is quid pro quo.
Looking from the outside- she benefitted by keeping her job and getting raises from a sexual relationship. This HAS to be investigated
This applies to every single company or organization in the country and one of the 2 or 3 top Sexual Harassment examples given in every policy guide.
Looking from the outside- she benefitted by keeping her job and getting raises from a sexual relationship. This HAS to be investigated
This applies to every single company or organization in the country and one of the 2 or 3 top Sexual Harassment examples given in every policy guide.
We know Hobbs is being investigated for having a relationship that would constitute breaking the rules - at the time of his resignation. It’s reasonable for fans to know this as opposed to thinking he’s fighting for his life medically.
I would assume that he never reported it because he is currently married.
It’s literally the same as some.
A little weird that people seem to be jumping through hoops to downplay why it’s being covered by the media.
It was literally major news two years go for the exact same reason.
But of course Rutgers has to Rutgers and we got the sham “resignation because of health”.
Instead of just a simple “suspension during investigation”.
The coverup is worse than the crime.
"May" absolutely leaves things up to interpretation based on the situation at hand. If this was simply Hobbs having an affair with the gymnastics coach that would be one thing, when you complicate the matter by looking at the facts that this was an underperforming coach by every metric who received substantial raises every single year it absolutely complicates the matter.
Real talk, do you know of another big ten program that would give annual raises to a coach who's conference record over the last 2 seasons is 0-20? (that's a real stats btw, our woman's gymnastics team has gone 0-10 in conference the last 2 seasons???
It's one thing to have an affair with a co-worker, it's another thing entirely to keep someone on the payroll and give them raises while you are having said affair while they are demonstrably terrible at their job
No.
I meant purely from a Rutgers best case scenario: find out about a potential relationship, suspend Hobbs during investigation, complete investigation, penalties if warranted (fire, reinstate, etc.)
The alternative has been has been abrupt resignation citing health concerns (potential attempt at a cover up by Hobbs?) then the relationship and investigation coming up anyway.
I didn’t mean to imply Rutgers did anything. But it just happens to us.
Hobbs couldn’t just take his medicine and deal with the outcome? Instead of causing all this with the resignation and trying to save his own a$$.
We still don’t know Hobbs did anything “wrong”. We don’t know he doesn’t have a health issue.
And we may never know, which is something I not only am 100% fine with (not knowing) but also very much hope winds up being the case (that none of us ever knows). Nowadays, except where it materially affects the public, I root hard for the public not knowing anything about people’s (even public figure’s) private lives.
The exception is where a public figure makes themselves out to be without sin and/or judges others. Then it’s open season.
‘Innapropriate sexual relationship’
Where did you get harrasment?
Yes it is extremely inappropriate for a department head to be sleeping with one of his subordinates while keeping her employed and rewarding her with raises when her job performance was horrible.
She led Rutgers to a 0-10 record in conference the last 2 years. Imagine for a second Chris Ash getting a raise and extension in year 3, EVERYONE would be outraged and for good reason, they would want to know ‘why are you extending this person’. Well when the answer is ‘the boss is sleeping with her’ that’s a MAJOR problem that warrants termination. Surely you can’t be that dense to not be able to put 2 and 2 together
"Rumors" to where an investigation has been initiated it seems.
Obviously not confirmed but I doubt Rutgers undertakes such action without crossing a certain threshold of evidence.
They aren't acting on "message board rumors".
Well didn’t ash get an extension at some point ? And didn’t Hobbs tweet at cbs to lay off his guy after year 2?
No - at this point there is confirmation (not rumor) that Hobbs is under formal investigation by Rutgers. That meets the definition of new information. It’s officially not just a Reddit post and fans speculating about the weird nature of his departure. It’s now known that the university has been looking into Hobb’s behavior.
Which is why it was worded ‘in year 3’.
Did Ash get an extension and raise after 2 straight 0-10 seasons?
Didn’t think so.
Ash went 1-11 and the team was awful in year 3 and Hobbs wrote a letter to fans saying to back off ash .
it looks like there may have been a rule infraction. I'm sure the specifics will be unearthed. It's not a story about a personal relationship but rather the terms of employment. As such, I doubt this story is going away not matter how much some may hope!
It doesn’t matter. Whether story, rumor or fact - the details do not have much impact on Rutgers reputation and rather reflect on Hobbs personal choices (however one chooses to view them).
This isn’t a case of an RU coach or AD being a part of a cover up of of physical or sexual abuse to student athletes. This is an AD, not a coach who serves as a direct day to day role model to the student athletes (see Michigan State situation). Thank goodness it’s not anything like these things.
The fact that Hobbs may have committed infidelity and possibly given a girls Olympic sports coach a raise she didn’t deserve likely cost him his job. There will likely be a mess behind the scenes for all directly involved but it doesn’t impact the money sports at all and therefore as far as our reputation from an athletics perception there doesn’t seem to be much to worry about here. It was the unknown that concerned me. I’m very grateful for the information that has come out now to this point. I’d rather know it’s this and not fear it could be something worse.
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You really aren't following the thread, are you? You are just picking out messages and assuming they contain all teh context you need in order to feign some disagreement over said message.
You replied to me about the "MAY" as I referred to it WITHOUT seeing what my message was replying it.. which was about sexual harassment clauses in Rutgers rules of conduct.
Do you know how much these raises were?
Did they have as much to do about cost of living and inflation as anything else?
Were said raises any different than anyone else got under similar "performance" levels?
Did the previous coach in that role do any better and not see any salary bumps?
What do any of us really know about any of this?
Yeah.. if it is a, say Fulton County GA DA situation regarding abuse of funds for personal gain.. yeah.. that is actionable. But what do you or any of us really know at this point? The primary complainants thought said coach was favoring other athletes over them and did not get that coach reprimanded by the AD and, thus, every aspect of AD to coach relationship received scrutiny.
AD resigned.
AD did a lot of good for Rutgers athletics.
If he was allowed to resign because of the good will he garnered through building up Rutgers Athletics instead of being dragged through the mud... why do you care?
Why is this so important to you? Is it a religious thing? An adultery thing? Do you just enjoy wallowing in the suffering of others? Or do you just want Rutgers to be mired in scandal as often as possible?
This entire situation is more about the people involved more than Rutgers.
Every company fires or has situations like this. You fire who deserves to be fired. You make sure the other people are ok and you move on.
I would bet most Fortune 500 deal with this 100 times a year.
Every company fires or has situations like this. You fire who deserves to be fired. You make sure the other people are ok and you move on.
I would bet most Fortune 500 deal with this 100 times a year.
Exactly. But people who love gossiping and scandal-mongering are rarely interested in any facts that don’t support the juicy scandal they want it to be. They also frequently claim they don’t want a scandal, but that’s pretty much always BS. People who don’t want a scandal don’t speculate about one. They keep their suspicions to themselves.
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