Schiano II would be like Pete Carroll at USC

[NickKnight 1]

Stop with the one game over .500 crap. He inherited one of the worst teams in the country... I think we were 116th or 118th He put us on the freaking map. The program was dead when Shea was canned. Schiano did a hell of a job. Bring him back and get an offensive guru to support him.

You do know that Syr,Boston college,Pitt, were top 20 teams, and Miami #1, W. Virgina
top 10 and Virginia Tech top 5 when Shea was here, I know you know the O.C. schedule
was teams like Texas, Notre Dame, good Navy teams, and good California teams?
Schiano came in when Boston college,Pitt, Syr. were done, then Miami, B.C. V.T. all
moved out. and he brought in the weakest OC teams possible. Stop selling a revised
history the guy could not coach to save his life.

 

[rutgersdave]

Championships?

That's what you promise the recruits. How the hell does he knows that some stupid fans are going to believe that? How else you going to get the recruits? Honest Flood tells them they will get an education and there goes all the 4 stars recruits.

 

[PaKnight]

That's what you promise the recruits. How the hell does he knows that some stupid fans are going to believe that? How else you going to get the recruits? Honest Flood tells them they will get an education and there goes all the 4 stars recruits.

He still said it, and never won the Big East.

 

[mildone]

Yes gets it.

This job, as is, is Flood level. If it isn't him, it is another Flood.

Is what I've been saying all along. I don't care who we fire or don't fire. That's just 1/4 of the equation. The other 3/4's of the equation is all about who we hire.

It's a losing proposition to just churn through a bunch of coaches with no real hope of consistently improving our win/loss ratio in the Big Ten East. Anybody that pays attention to what recruits say should understand that coach churning negatively impacts recruiting.

Look at all the reasons, today, that a top recruit comes to RU. It's not due to the storied program. It's not due to the winning tradition. It's not due to the brand-name coach. It's not due to the better facilities (top recruits could go to PSU, MSU, OSU, and elsewhere for facilities). It's not because they want to represent NJ which is some weird invention of a reason by fans that obviously, based on the number of top NJ recruits we have today, doesn't resonate too widely with the recruits in NJ.

I think it's because of a three main things, in no particular order: (1) have a better chance to get onto the field - which obviously affects their chances of making it to the NFL, (2) stay near home so the family can easily watch you play, (3) the relationship formed during recruiting with one of the coaches. There are other reasons, but I think those are probably the biggest reasons.

By churning through coaches, we will struggle to leverage #3. Which, unless we hire a brand-name coach who can recruit by name recognition and reputation, argues for maintaining stability in the coaching staff as best as we can.

Doesn't mean we can't hire a Flood replacement. But it means we should probably be very deliberate about doing so unless we're spending enough to get the brand-name coach - if we can even identify one on the market that would consider the job right now.

 

[mildone]

the biggest thing is that Greg has made mistakes, and learned from them.

Al, optimism is great when rooting for the team to win because being wrong in our optimism costs us nothing. But optimism in making a business decision, like hiring a coach, costs us a lot both in monetary terms as well as time.

To say that Greg has learned from his mistakes is a highly optimistic viewpoint. Maybe he has, maybe he hasn't. If we were going to hire him, it ought to be for reasons we can verify - not because we hope something's true. We can verify his track record as a head coach. And it ain't great.

 

[ru-baby]

Again look at his record 2006- end when foundation built . Stop the foolish trotting out of his first few years. He was a success. Always could be better but in addition and most importantly it was a program to be proud of.

 

[NotInRHouse]

26-25 in conference post-2004 says otherwise. No need to dispute them point by point - the guy was an average coach in a bad conference.

Scottydont - Schiano is likely too demand in the $2.5-$3 million range. That gets you all manner of mid-level current BCS coaches (Mike Riley, Gary Anderson, Paul Chryst all moved to other BCS schools for that or less in just the past year), and higher level failed BCS coaches (like Tupperville, Rich Rod in the past or say a Mark Richt or Charlie Strong if they got canned.)

Schiano isnt going to walk in here for $1.5 million or whatever. If he does, its because no one else wants him - which should tell you just about everything you need to know about whether we should take him.

That is a deceptive stat, and the BE was not a bad conference during that time. In 2006 it had 3 teams in the top 15, and in 2007 and 09 if not for crazy circumstances would have had a team in the NC. You can't not count OOC either.

Ultimately who is better than him and a realistic choice?

 

[miket007]

To be honest i was never a huge GS fan but with the issues that hit us this year along with that very informative past John O laid on us on the round table i'd welcome GS back with open arms, i loved last years but we caught breaks as a program we've never gotten before, can't see us having a top 35 recruiting class under this regime

 

[Extra Point]

Here is the problem we all have seen Schiano has many warts but for most neophytes that is all they know. Shea-Graber era was a direct result of an incompetent AD; dear old F#ck-it-up Fred Grunninger . Any half decent coach could have brought us back to 50% wins. And yes he did. But we all know he is not the next step in Rutgers development of a power team. TO DO THAT WE MUST STEP ABOVE Schiano level of coaching or to better put it' lack there of level of schiano's abilities.
We now we have a real AD (not some golf coach doing double duty) who does this type of selection for a living.
BUT Many here do not like our foot-in-mouth AD for many varying reasons.
For Rutgers to compete in the B1G against the liked of the coaches in the Eastern division, we must move up a level or two or 3 or 4 for a coach who can recruit/coach/develop talent at the level of Meyer/Harbaugh/Mark D'.
Other then Kelly not too many names have come up. And I agree "THAT COACH" may not be available at this time. So assume our AD has a plan. I have a feeling that she is buying her time this year and will make a strike at the fall of 2016 because of Money and maybe a candidate?
Understand Hermann has maybe a 50% support backing, with a dumb hire she will get skinned alive should she faultier, guys like it or not "schiano" is a iffy hire, you can even call it dumb, as he is no better then Flood and from where Rutgers stand today Schiano may be actually a fall back from Flood. We can not go backwards get out of the dumb ass box>>> Schiano is not moving forward no matter how little you respect Flood, Schiano is just the same but different style

This. Rutgers would be a laughing stock if Rutgers hired Schiano, effectively going backwards. Flood is a step up from Schiano. I think Rutgers would do good to hire a young DC like Schinao was when he was hired at Rutgers, someone with tons of energy and something to prove. And of course well connected to PA and Florida to get those recruits. If Schiano was fired from Rutgers, instead of leaving on his own accord, would you want him to be rehired? Everyone was calling for his head most of the time when he was here. You guys have backup QB (and coach) syndrome.

 

[LotusAggressor]

The Rutgers admistration's half assed commitment to big time footballl and whole assed commitment to sucking every last drop of reflected glory and television revenue from the B1G teat will almost ensure that a big time coach will never come here.

 

[PaKnight]

The Rutgers admistration's half assed commitment to big time footballl and whole assed commitment to sucking every last drop of reflected glory and television revenue from the B1G teat will almost ensure that a big time coach will never come here.

Rutgers has one of the largest athletic subsidies in the country and is getting no where near a full share of B1G revenues.

 

[MADHAT1]

Rutgers has one of the largest athletic subsidies in the country and is getting no where near a full share of B1G revenues.

Don't forget that those subsidies are being reduced every year and it will be awhile before RU gets a full B1G share.

 

[rutgersdave]

This. Rutgers would be a laughing stock if Rutgers hired Schiano, effectively going backwards. Flood is a step up from Schiano. I think Rutgers would do good to hire a young DC like Schinao was when he was hired at Rutgers, someone with tons of energy and something to prove. And of course well connected to PA and Florida to get those recruits. If Schiano was fired from Rutgers, instead of leaving on his own accord, would you want him to be rehired? Everyone was calling for his head most of the time when he was here. You guys have backup QB (and coach) syndrome.

You are related to Flood or you are Flood. Flood is a step up LOL, LOL, LOL

 

[JQRU91]

This. Rutgers would be a laughing stock if Rutgers hired Schiano, effectively going backwards. Flood is a step up from Schiano. I think Rutgers would do good to hire a young DC like Schinao was when he was hired at Rutgers, someone with tons of energy and something to prove. And of course well connected to PA and Florida to get those recruits. If Schiano was fired from Rutgers, instead of leaving on his own accord, would you want him to be rehired? Everyone was calling for his head most of the time when he was here. You guys have backup QB (and coach) syndrome.

I really don't want to see Schiano back, but that's a heck of a stretch to get to there. I think after what's happened so far this season, most would say that Flood is not the answer going forward. It's more a matter of when he will be replaced.

 

[RUaMoose]

Schiano II would be a significant upgrade however I doubt he would want to come back and work for Bozo Bob and JH.

 

[rutgersal]

Al, optimism is great when rooting for the team to win because being wrong in our optimism costs us nothing. But optimism in making a business decision, like hiring a coach, costs us a lot both in monetary terms as well as time.

To say that Greg has learned from his mistakes is a highly optimistic viewpoint. Maybe he has, maybe he hasn't. If we were going to hire him, it ought to be for reasons we can verify - not because we hope something's true. We can verify his track record as a head coach. And it ain't great.

Schiano's track record is great compared to Rutgers previous coaches.
If you focus just on facts, rather than on your perception that he hasn't learned from his prior mistakes, just about every indicator was up under Schiano because of the program he built.

-Rutgers only Top 15 ranking after going Big Time
-attendance increases during Schiano's tenure are facts that can be verified.
- Revenue increases under Schiano are facts that can be verified.
-increased average attendance can be verified
- Player recognition for academics and football was up.
-# of NFL draft picks and # of first round draft picks are facts that can be verified
-Merchandise sales are facts that can be verified

Schiano generated significantly higher ROI than any coach in Rutgers history.
Thats why there is a stronger business case to hiring Schiano than just about anyone else

 

[jerseypete12]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[yesrutgers01]

Al- Greg built a program from nothing. He did it with vision(love at that time for NJ) a dream he believed in and...unconditional support from the school. Who he couldn't sweet talk or charm he strong armed or just pushed pass them.
By the time 2006 happened, he was as close to untouchable as there is. If he needed something done or if someone thought he wanted something done, it happened.
Do you for a moment think a professor would have come forward that he broke a school policy and emailed them? Don't be naive.
It would have been a complete non issue. I'm not sure how college may have been different in the mid 2000's but if you don't do tests...you don't pass.

Everything else...he built the program and had moderate success. Are you looking for moderate success again?

 

[NickKnight 1]

Schiano's track record is great compared to Rutgers previous coaches.
If you focus just on facts, rather than on your perception that he hasn't learned from his prior mistakes, just about every indicator was up under Schiano because of the program he built.

-Rutgers only Top 15 ranking after going Big Time
-attendance increases during Schiano's tenure are facts that can be verified.
- Revenue increases under Schiano are facts that can be verified.
-increased average attendance can be verified
- Player recognition for academics and football was up.
-# of NFL draft picks and # of first round draft picks are facts that can be verified
-Merchandise sales are facts that can be verified

Schiano generated significantly higher ROI than any coach in Rutgers history.
Thats why there is a stronger business case to hiring Schiano than just about anyone else

It's called being at the right place at the right time.

 

[derleider]

Beat me to it. Lol

And though everyone pretty much knows my feeling on him coming back...anyone using he is only one game over .500 is completely off base. Pre 2005 should never be a factor.
Conference record post 2005 is concerning though...

Yes - the game over .500 is his conference record from 2005-2011. Basically, if it werent for Terry Shea II up at Cuse, Schiano would have had a losing conference record in THE GOOD YEARS.

 

[brgossRU90]

Schiano was a good coach but only a good one. Duke was rock bottom bad not too many years ago, has never been a good football program and it didn't take them 5 or 6 years to get to the point of vying for a conference championship.

 

[NickKnight 1]

Yes - the game over .500 is his conference record from 2005-2011. Basically, if it werent for Terry Shea II up at Cuse, Schiano would have had a losing conference record in THE GOOD YEARS.

Right and for Greggie lovers, After Robinson destroyed Syracuse, Marone
came in and fixed it right away. Don't tell me Syracuse wasn't that bad, for
Cripe's sake the only one Robinson could beat in a very depleted league was
Schiano, now that was a real low point for Syr. Marone came in and went to
work and had it working in no time. Didn't wine and cry about "Shea left me
an empty cupboard", or in this case Robinson's empty cupboard. On top
of it all, he lost 3 top incoming players to RU..and No Tears.

 

[NickKnight 1]

Al- Greg built a program from nothing. He did it with vision(love at that time for NJ) a dream he believed in and...unconditional support from the school. Who he couldn't sweet talk or charm he strong armed or just pushed pass them.
By the time 2006 happened, he was as close to untouchable as there is. If he needed something done or if someone thought he wanted something done, it happened.
Do you for a moment think a professor would have come forward that he broke a school policy and emailed them? Don't be naive.
It would have been a complete non issue. I'm not sure how college may have been different in the mid 2000's but if you don't do tests...you don't pass.

Everything else...he built the program and had moderate success. Are you looking for moderate success again?

Yes, like the time Schiano recruited and had on his team, a player that was
involved in the
murder of his gang leader,drug dealer and it was only a small side story.
Not like today where a guy protects his girl friend and it becomes a federal
case.
What if Flood had this guy on his team? Think Politi and sargeant and the whole
Star Ledger would have some fun?

 

[ru-baby]

Flood is a step up from Schiano//////////////////

I thought I had seen it all--now I have.

Just wow.

 

[essexknight]

Schiano played a big role in Syracuse's decline. The Schiano haters are ignoring this. Cuse would have been much better if they landed guys like Rice and and Courtney Greene. Syracuse's recruiting in NJ/PA/NY took a big hit because of Schiano's success in building RU. RU was a joke on the recruiting trail pre-Schiano.

I really liked GS last staff at RU. He had a very good OC and assistants who could recruit. With that type of staff, GS could do very well in the B1G. However, I just don't see it happening because Rutgers as a university is much different now under Barchi and JH, compared to McCormick and Mulcahy.

 

[Wolv RU]

Some here really have a way of ignoring data and wanting things to go back to a way that they never were in the first place.

There is a reason why no team even so much as gave Schiano an interview last off season. He isn't even close to worth the money he would demand.

 

[Wolv RU]

I am on the Schiano bandwagon

Ask yourself this question

Please look at his resume

Who are we going to get that is superior to Greg that
1.) Has a better coaching resume?
2.) Has major division 1 HC experience?
3.) Has major assistant coaching experience? (i.e. he knows how the big programs do it)
4.) Has NFL assistant coaching experience
5.) Has NFL head coaching experience
6.) Has NJ ties

If you put away any POSITIVE or NEGATIVE bias about Greg his first time and objectively what he did....I do not find anyone else out there that we are going to get that has LESS risk and MORE upside.

Please name these people. And we have to be able to afford them

Schiano doesn't have a good resume. He has never been over .500 at any job. He has never won any league or division title. His "post 2006 record" that many have cited was padded with the worst schedule in FBS over that time frame. After all the "learning" he did, in his 10th year at Rutgers his team was an absolute disaster and one of the worst in the country.

NJ ties are of little importance. If Rutgers hires the right coach, that coach will be able to recruit New Jersey. This need for "NJ ties" is the same logic that has driven the basketball program into the ground with hires like Fred Hill.

Take a look around at what many coaches are making, even in the Big Ten. Up and coming coaches can easily be had for $2 million. I'd much rather see a guy like DJ Durkin get the job (Michigan DC, and look at how well he is doing) than go with a retread who has a known ceiling.

Bo Pelini would be 100 times preferable to Schiano. And cheaper. And probably attainable. His resume is far superior to Schiano's.

 

[MADHAT1]

Right and for Greggie lovers, After Robinson destroyed Syracuse, Marone
came in and fixed it right away. Don't tell me Syracuse wasn't that bad, for
Cripe's sake the only one Robinson could beat in a very depleted league was
Schiano, now that was a real low point for Syr. Marone came in and went to
work and had it working in no time. Didn't wine and cry about "Shea left me
an empty cupboard", or in this case Robinson's empty cupboard. On top
of it all, he lost 3 top incoming players to RU..and No Tears.

Marrone came in and had one more win than Robinson's last team , then a 8-5 one.
Next season was 5-7 and left after going 8-5 again his last year.
Marrone was 2-2 against Schiano in his four years at Syracuse.
If one thinks Schiano's accomplishments at RU are overrated, Marrone isn't the best example to prove that.

 

[NotInRHouse]

It is interesting how we should write off this season and 2013 for Flood, but not 2010 for Schiano...when what happened was actually out of his hands.

Schiano was an actual threat to beat good teams. I'm not going to sit here and have people say a guy who beat 4 winning teams in 4 years is better than a guy who beat 5 winning teams in one season.

We all sat through both, and I didn't wake up every day waiting to hear what dumb off the field nonsense Schiano got himself or his players into.

Maybe Schiano is the answer, maybe not, but he is leagues better than Flood, but that is an unfair test, considering most anyone would be.

 

[chase07470]

Excellent coordinator. Excellent Special Teams. Good to great recruiter. Excellent manager of the kids and program. Excellent promoter of the program.

If there's someone out there who checks all those boxes as strongly, is an excellent game day coach and would come to Rutgers, lets get him. If not, bring GS back. Would love to see what he could do with the B1G affiliation.

 

[rutgersal]

Do you for a moment think a professor would have come forward that he broke a school policy and emailed them? Don't be naive.
It would have been a complete non issue. I'm not sure how college may have been different in the mid 2000's but if you don't do tests...you don't pass.

Everything else...he built the program and had moderate success. Are you looking for moderate success again?

There were controls in place to make sure Schiano was never in position to have to email professors, implicitly begging them for assistance. Kid would have had Schianos foot up his ass or been halfway to Monmouth or Wagner before that ever occurred. The Barnwell issue highLights the lack of academic accountability and discipline in the program. We're not talking about failing general chemistry, physics, or calculus. It takes a special kind of callousness, to fail dance appreciation, a class that every other student takes for an easy 'A'.

The program structure and culture was built with the intention of winning championships. Hence the number of players we've put in the NFL. But ultimately it's up to players to execute and seize opportunities. In 2006, we achieved more than moderate success. In 2012, we achieved more than moderate success.

There's a reason why Urban Meyer hired Schiano as a consultant for a few months prior to last season. The guy knows defense. And I don't think OSUs defensive performance and Schianos involvement, was a coincidence.

I think Schiano of 2016 is capable of building this program into a National Championship caliber program.

 

[NickKnight 1]

Marrone came in and had one more win than Robinson's last team , then a 8-5 one.
Next season was 5-7 and left after going 8-5 again his last year.
Marrone was 2-2 against Schiano in his four years at Syracuse.
If one thinks Schiano's accomplishments at RU are overrated, Marrone isn't the best example to prove that.

Yes, thanks for agreeing with me, 8 wins with that mess in his second year,
far superior to Greggie. Thanks for helping me make my point.

 

[rutgersal]

Yes, thanks for agreeing with me, 8 wins with that mess in his second year,
far superior to Greggie. Thanks for helping me make my point.

that is flat out ridiculous comparison. at least Syracuse had a program in place, prior to Robinson, dating back to coach P and Coach Mac. Greg built everything from scratch, cupboard and all.

 

[Wolv RU]

that is flat out ridiculous comparison. at least Syracuse had a program in place, prior to Robinson, dating back to coach P and Coach Mac. Greg built everything from scratch, cupboard and all.

The most ridiculous comparison in this thread is the original post, comparing a coach who has never achieved anything to one that has won at every level.

 

[mildone]

The most ridiculous comparison in this thread is the original post, comparing a coach who has never achieved anything to one that has won at every level.

I don't know if it's completely ridiculous so much as it's just Al's hope that it would be true. And because of how absolutely Al's hopes are often expressed, they come across as if he's proclaiming things to be fact when really he's just wishing for things.

But yeah, the OP contains nothing but pure wishful thinking. RU shouldn't be making business decisions based on wishful thinking. Because that really would be ridiculous.

 

[MADHAT1]

Yes, thanks for agreeing with me, 8 wins with that mess in his second year,
far superior to Greggie. Thanks for helping me make my point.

lol.
Didn't help you a bit, only shown your Doug love was wrong.
Schiano built a progran from nothing, Marrone had one in place.
Syracuse still had a name and tradition to build on, the RU name was the butt of jokes and
Schiano didn't have tradition to sell the talent he was recruiting.
Doug Marrone had a far easier job to make the fruit better and he failed making it a power
and highly respected.
Schiano had far less to work with and RU was far more respected as a football program than Marrone made the fruit before he left that program.
Like Edsall, Marrone was overrated by those who dislike Schiano.

 

[MADHAT1]

The most ridiculous comparison in this thread is the original post, comparing a coach who has never achieved anything to one that has won at every level.

What Schiano achieved was building a respected football program from one that was considered the worst FB program, or one of them, in college football .
He raised every RU FB fan's expectations into thinking more about wins , than hoping the loss wouldn't be a blowout and criticizing his coaching skills by the time he left.
Was Schiano a good gameday HC, no, but he was what RU needed to become a respected FB program .

The hate ( dislike) he is shown by some posters here undeserved, like some of the praise he receives is unwarranted.
Greg left a little after he should have, but comparing him to those who had moderate success in College and making them look like HOF HCs is ridicules and just shows the posters dislike ( hate ) of Schiano more than making a valid statement

 

[mildone]

What Schiano achieved was building a respected football program from one that was considered the worst FB program, or one of them, in college football .
He raised every RU FB fan's expectations into thinking more about wins , than hoping the loss wouldn't be a blowout and criticizing his coaching skills by the time he left.
Was Schiano a good gameday HC, no, but he was what RU needed to become a respected FB program .

The hate ( dislike) he is shown by some posters here undeserved, like some of the praise he receives is unwarranted.
Greg left a little after he should have, but comparing him to those who had moderate success in College and making them look like HOF HCs is ridicules and just shows the posters dislike ( hate ) of Schiano more than making a valid statement

Not sure who hates him. I don't hate him. But I don't particularly want him back either.

I want us to find and pay whatever it takes to get someone with a proven track record of consistently winning big games against great competition. And if that person isn't out there right now, I want us to behave intelligently and not emotionally and be patient until that person is available. By consistently, I mean at least .500 against ranked teams.

Schiano is not that person. He was great at building the program and he'd be a great D-coord. But he avoided hard competition and didn't have a great track record against great competition. He recruited better than Flood, but that's not raising the bar nearly high enough.

And while many RU fans may think highly of him, people outside the RU world mostly do not think much of him at all - meaning they never think of him. Which means he's not capable of taking recruiting to the next level based solely on his name. He might recruit better than Flood, but not well enough to start consistently competing on a level field with the top teams in the B1G.

Thinking a guy that couldn't beat W. Virginia in all those years and whose claim to recruiting fame is that's he's better than Flood is going to somehow magically put RU on the map in top tier college FB is wishful thinking - not sound analysis.

So yeah, I don't hate Schiano at all. I actually like the guy for what he's accomplished. But I want RU to use sound analysis to hire Flood's replacement and not familiarity-biased wishful thinking.

 

[bethlehemfan]

If you are consistently 500 against ranked teams that means you are a ranked team. What coach of a ranked team is coming to Rutgers ?

 

[mildone]

If you are consistently 500 against ranked teams that means you are a ranked team. What coach of a ranked team is coming to Rutgers ?

The one we pay well enough. You get what you pay for. It's pretty hard to claim with any kind of certainty that anybody else we hire is going to consistently do much better than Flood did last season. I mean, people can claim it, but there's no evidence to support it which makes it's wishful thinking. Which was my point.

We can pay 2.5MM for wishful thinking. Or we can pay 6MM for sound analysis. Some good coaches out there making 4MM or so. Some of them might be convinced to move for 5 or 6MM. Do we want to win or do we want to keep screwing around?

IMO, 2.5MM has very low odds of producing the results we'd all like to see. Low enough so as to mostly not be worth doing at this point.