Well it was cheaper than hiring a mason. You do remember The Graduate and that the future was in plastics.
That plastic wrap is good for wrapping up masons who do bad work. A little lime, a shovel . . . .
Season ticket numbers
- Thread starter kcg88
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That plastic wrap is good for wrapping up masons who do bad work. A little lime, a shovel . . . .
That's actually a Shirelles song from 1959. If you've never heard them, then just know that they were good and were very prominent. The line has also been used in an Emmy Lou Harris song.
No he doesn't.
As I've said before, the timelines are in Pat's favor. He will have the opportunity to, if need be, get rid of Ash at the end of this season and hire a new coach well before Barchy's successor is in place and paying attention to football.
Totally agree with you and it could have started by firing Ash. It would at least have kept our group of 6 in the seats.
Sadly, they must be struggling. I just got offered two Audi game tickets to any game I want to go to. I thought it was a nice gesture even with the lack of interest in the team. They need to do more of that stuff.
I think this goes to show it was never about the money.
The cheaper course of action would have been to fire Ash.
This is about Hobbs' hubris. Seems to make sense the stories that he turned away donors.
It would be illogical for RU to fire Ash and Hobbs next year after keeping them, but with Barchi having one foot out the door you never know who is ruling the roost.
The cheaper course of action would have been to fire Ash.
This is about Hobbs' hubris. Seems to make sense the stories that he turned away donors.
It would be illogical for RU to fire Ash and Hobbs next year after keeping them, but with Barchi having one foot out the door you never know who is ruling the roost.
Do you trust Hobbs' ability to make the right choice after the disaster called Ash? Football is not Hobbs strength.
My own limited 1 on 1 conversations with him suggest he's not as myopic as people think.
The problem is that your numbers assume that a new coach would have done substantially better than Ash , so that, for instance, the drop from 2018 to 2019 wouldn't have happened. We just don't have any guarantee that would have happened. So the estimates of the loss are somewhat speculative. Hobbs may have thought that a new coach in his first year would have done no better and perhaps worse than Ash did.
I'm not trying to say that Ash should remain as coach; only that the ticket revenue argument is subject to question, and therefore it is not valid to compare the ticket revenue figures with the buyout amount.
I believe you but when you have no real experience with the sport. It makes understanding the finer things that make picking a successful coach difficult. Hobbs admitted he fell in love with Ash over a phone interview. After that Hobbs basically passed on other qualified candidates.
Typically, there is a bump in interest in the program when you hire a new coach. Ticket sales do increase as well as recruits showing more interest in the program. After the first year, the coach has to show improvement if those factors are to continue.
How much of a bump was there when Ash was hired to replace Flood? I don't recall it was much, but maybe I"m mistaken; I don't know the numbers as well as many others do.
True.
However, not the precipitous declines after the 2016 and 2018 seasons. The drop after the 2017 season was not bad at all. Couple that with Coach Ash has done basically nothing to endear himself to the fanbase or the State, and that may be another factor towards an faster accelerating downward trend.
There is almost always excitement around a new coach hire that leads to ticket holders renewing or new ticket holders purchasing tickets.
Take Purdue, for example. After years of declines, Jeff Brohm injected some excitement and hope into the program.
https://www.hammerandrails.com/2018/11/19/18102757/purdue-football-attendance-2018-numbers
The biggest jump is, of course, from Hazell’s final season in 2016 and this year. In just two years we’re up almost 17,000 fans per game. Each game this year had more than 46,000 fans per game while that season’s largest crowd was 41,607. If you have a conservative estimate that each additional fan paid $35 per ticket that’s a revenue increase of $4,165,000 in ticket sales alone from 2016 to 2018.
That is a really good question.
The problem with Ash is that he never really connected with the fanbase or injected any excitement into the program. To the contrary, he did several things to alienate long time fans, such as eliminating long standing player awards and insulting the previous year's team as a team that he saw as quitting.
Whether true or not. Perception is reality. And ash never connected to the school and fsnbase. He has just seemed out of place from the fan perspective. I wish him the best this year. But it has not worked thus far.
I'm not trying to bury the guy. But he has zero juice and zero stain. That's not always necessary. For example, Jeff Brohm is not a real charismatic person. However, he gives the impression that he knows what he is doing, what he wants to achieve and how he wants to achieve it. And he checks all three boxes and wins on the field, the most important thing of all. Even with his lack of personal skills, if Ash had gone from 4-8 to 6-6 (or even 5-7 with a couple of close losses) last year, fans would have overlooked his shortcomings. In short, just win baby.
Here's my 2 cents - Hobbs is a classic executive. He doesn't need to understand football on an Xs and Os level, the way a career football person does, to be able to hire a good coach.
Was Ash a bad hire? So far, yes. And while I have zero desire to argue with the nitpickers, I continue to point out that Schiano didn't have a winning season until year 5 and most of the people on this board who deny wanting him fired after year 3 are lying. But if there's no improvement in the overall state of the program this year, Ash needs to go and I think Pat will execute that transition reasonably well.
But if you read the article, our scanned ticket numbers last season were still better than Maryland and Illinois - both of which are better teams.
As I've consistently said regarding this topic, ticket holders aren't perishable. If the team starts winning, the stands will start filling.
I thought part of the reason why Hobbs hired Ash was they shared the same agent? How many coaches in other sports has Hobbs hired at RU that share the same agent?
How much football experience did :
Sandy Barbour of Penn State have?
Mark Hollis, former AD at Michigan State
And Lynn Swann, who has a lot of football experience, is likely on his way out at USC.
Not every poster here would be able to see the details that separated Schiano from Ash. First, Ash a much big budget to recruit and hire coaches than Schiano ever had, yet the recruiting classes are not on the same level. Second, Schiano was able to develop players and it was easy to see. Last, Schiano, like Ash didn't have a winning season to that point, but you could see the level of competition jump and Rutgers had fewer blowouts.
Bottom line, it's not about comparing Ash to Schiano as much as it's comparing Ash to his current peers. Purdue in a similar situation was able to climb fast and see instant results. I hear more blaming of others coming from Ash than creating excitement around a program he thinks is on the cusp of turning things around.
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I'm sorry, you must have missed the part where I said "zero desire".
As a former girlfriend of mine used to like to say, "You're certainly entitled to your opinion."
The one factor of all those people you have mentioned and Hobbs, big egos. They pretty much made decisions on their own without input from others who could help with the process.
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Ash's biggest downfall was his fumbling (no pun intended) of the offensive coordinator and offense.
Year 4 of his tenure, and he does not have a QB on the roster that he developed under his tenure. Art may be that QB, but that is looking doubtful if Carter passes him. More galling is we don't have a WR on the team with more that 250 receiving yards in a single season. That speaks volumes about what Ash has accomplished in 3 years.
There is no way of sugar-coating the Ash factor on season ticket sales. The loss in revenue damn there covers his buyout. This is ego-driven pride of Hobbs for allowing this. Hobbs, sh*t or get off the pot with the man although it may be a year too late.
When Hobbs says that he is concentrating on single game sales that tells me has given up on selling new season tickets. Probably a wise move.
The BC game at home in game 3 is key. Assuming we split the UMASS and Iowa games we should beat a mediocre BC team at home in Ash Year 4. If we don’t then we head to Ann Arbor the next week 1-2 to get shellacked again by Michigan. At that point RU fans will have a decent idea of what expectations should be for this season.
A loss to BC at home will make it near impossible for Hobbs to sell single game 2019 tickets.
The BC game at home in game 3 is key. Assuming we split the UMASS and Iowa games we should beat a mediocre BC team at home in Ash Year 4. If we don’t then we head to Ann Arbor the next week 1-2 to get shellacked again by Michigan. At that point RU fans will have a decent idea of what expectations should be for this season.
A loss to BC at home will make it near impossible for Hobbs to sell single game 2019 tickets.
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A
anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
Guest
Ive heard from someone his football knowledge is the equivalent to a poster on the free board, aka very elementary
Putting it in writing that this season is going to be a complete dejavu of last year. SHI stadium is going to feel even emptier than my freshman year of 2002 because of the new end zone. Its going to get ugly and hopefully Ash is canned midyear.
It’s hit or miss but like I’ve said I think there are certain things I’d like to see in a candidate which I think increase the odds of your favor (mainly strong offensive acumen or influence/connections) but you don’t need a football background to identify that.
Sandy Barbour was AD at Cal and then, I believe, Notre Dame. She kept the Cal coach too long, thinking that he'd repeat his early success. But she certainly knew football before she got to Penn State.
...hmm, all this and I still haven't received one single phone call from the ticket office after not renewing after 15 years as a season ticket holder. Outside of all of the fair points already made on this thread, IMO this also indirectly spotlights how deficiently the university brass runs the ticket office.
...and like many here have said, most people aren't interested in going to watch Rutgers Football play in the B1G if we're going to be (and treat ourselves like) a punching bag. We already watched that movie under Shea and aren't interested in the sequel.
Joe P.
...and like many here have said, most people aren't interested in going to watch Rutgers Football play in the B1G if we're going to be (and treat ourselves like) a punching bag. We already watched that movie under Shea and aren't interested in the sequel.
Joe P.
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It's hard to know how much of a bump a new coach would have brought Rutgers. I agree that ticket sales would be better under a new coach, but it's difficult to say how much. Despite the wishes of many here, Rutgers would never hire a "name" coach, so there'd be a lot of uncertainty about the new guy and how well he would connect with the fans. Again, I'm not saying we have to keep Ash, but only that there's a lot of difficulty quantifying how much extent firing Ash would have prevented the slide in season ticket sales.
I don't mean to change the subject, but I think it might be hard to hire the kind of coach we want if Ash doesn't get what all of his colleagues would consider to be a fair shot at turning the ship around. So maybe we just have to be willing to accept the ticket loss.
THAT must be even a newer twist ....wow. Prior it was Amoungst Tier 1 and Tier 2. Zip about OSU or the trade down thing...geez. (thanks for that tidbit).
I think that’s pretty much many ADs in terms of their own hire. I said last year Ash could go theoretically winless, which he almost did, and he’d be back with money and the fact that it was Hobbs’ hire being the key factors.
It happens but it’s not often a coach is let go in his third year. While I do like to follow coaching moves I haven’t paid attention to those coaches who have been fired somewhere in year three if it was by the AD who hired them or someone else.
EDIT: I should also add that would typically be year 3 in a 5 year deal, not what ended up being a 7 year deal.
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all you say is true. what is missing is the Jersey flavor, the paint it RED, the recruiting wins, the BLOCK R attitude, the game day experience, and his salesmanship/charisma....the local connectivity he brought.... in spite of the record you could see something building. At a minimum there was hope.
He was a bit of a bastard which yielded some confidence. He wasn't afraid to step onto the field. This guy seems ok playing right field in a little league game.
That’s pathetic and shows the folks in charge have no clue. Like the sucker I am I renewed with the belief they were making a bad decision. I emailed with no response and renewed anyway (4 vs 6) more because we’ve had a nice tradition built up of enjoying time together with family and friends and seeing rutgers football through some pretty solid years. I’m hoping Ash turns it around this year and since he’s our guy he has my full support. I hate the piling on and stupidity i see on this board since the decisions been made. That said another shit show and I’m done even if they change coaches. They’ll be plenty of time to see if the next guy has his shit together before you’ll need to jump in and buy. That’s the damage that’s been done by the geniuses in charge who completely wasted all the good things schiano did to build the program up.
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