Soph Cliff Omoruyi and Soph James Bailey
- Thread starter RUTax
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James had a more well rounded game and a nice jumper. He also blocked shots and rebounded hard.
I believe Bailey did have 90 dunks one year (Jr year?), and Cliff is closing in on that this year. If I’m not mistaken Cliff leads the nation in dunks.
Maybe some of the other long-timers can chime in: was the dunk still illegal in college during 1975-76 when Bailey was a freshman? I think it was and I think they mentioned it in the Big 10 Elite documentary.
Because as a sophomore, the alley-oop craze with James reminds me of the alley-oop craze with Cliff this year. The passes are a little different, but the end result the same. Still can see Rodney Duncan (who transferred) lobbing them to James for throwdowns vs. nationally ranked Cincy at MSG!
Because as a sophomore, the alley-oop craze with James reminds me of the alley-oop craze with Cliff this year. The passes are a little different, but the end result the same. Still can see Rodney Duncan (who transferred) lobbing them to James for throwdowns vs. nationally ranked Cincy at MSG!
James also took a big step from freshman year to sophomore year . I think Cliff has more athleticism and maybe a higher upside.
Cliff is probably the most athletic player Rutgers has ever had. Most athletic that I have seen. Sanders was crazy too and hard to compare big men and small guards
Bailey was a lottery pick . I doubt Cliff is a lottery pick . Man , I really hope I am wrong though !!
I don't think the lottery existed when James was drafted, but I get your point. The lottery has changed a great deal since then- big men/post players were at a premium back when James was drafted, not today.
I knew James when I was at RU. One of the nicest guys you ever met. After he left pro - ball my High School had him come in and give the athletes a speech and it was awesome.
He told the crowd how he ended up at RU. He had many schools recruiting him and RU wasn't one them at first. He said how great the recruiting trips were. How he would get picked up at the airports in limo's, would go to dinner at the best steak houses etc. RU came to his house, outside of Boston, and his mother loved how RU pushed the academics and made him go on a a visit.
He got to Newark and was looking for a Limo driver with his name on a placard. Didn't see one but a team manager came up to him and said follow him. They went outside and he was looking for a limo. Nope, the manager walked him to his Ford Pinto and he said he almost didn't fit.
He finally got to RU and he was told to go to a certain room in Campbell Hall. Once he got there a bunch of players welcomed him and he hung out for a while. He said he was getting hungry. One of the players said then lets head over to the Castle. He though, wow a steak house named The Castle. They ended up at White Castle.
He had the room rolling by the time he was done but he said his mother was correct and an education means everything and as we know he ended up doing very well in private industry after his 10 years in the pros.
I think I read somewhere that in his junior year he had more dunks then the whole Phi Slama Jama team that year
I was really hoping he got to a game this year.
He told the crowd how he ended up at RU. He had many schools recruiting him and RU wasn't one them at first. He said how great the recruiting trips were. How he would get picked up at the airports in limo's, would go to dinner at the best steak houses etc. RU came to his house, outside of Boston, and his mother loved how RU pushed the academics and made him go on a a visit.
He got to Newark and was looking for a Limo driver with his name on a placard. Didn't see one but a team manager came up to him and said follow him. They went outside and he was looking for a limo. Nope, the manager walked him to his Ford Pinto and he said he almost didn't fit.
He finally got to RU and he was told to go to a certain room in Campbell Hall. Once he got there a bunch of players welcomed him and he hung out for a while. He said he was getting hungry. One of the players said then lets head over to the Castle. He though, wow a steak house named The Castle. They ended up at White Castle.
He had the room rolling by the time he was done but he said his mother was correct and an education means everything and as we know he ended up doing very well in private industry after his 10 years in the pros.
I think I read somewhere that in his junior year he had more dunks then the whole Phi Slama Jama team that year
I was really hoping he got to a game this year.
That's awesome! I loved watching him play. I always say that the 75-76 team was the first team I ever rooted for in anything and it got me into sports when I was 7, but guys like James, Abdel and Hollis were the first guys I really remember as my guys out there kicking ass.
The 75-76 team was a little more vague since I was so young. But thank God for NJ Public Television back then for making the memories more real for me.
He might have been close. I know he started organized ball late.
Cliff is the closest thing we have had to Bailey. Cliff is longer than Hinson but not the defender Hinson was, at least not yet. He can certainly get there. Bailey was an extraordinary athlete; definitely could go above the backboard box for alley oops (as they were called back then) much like Cliff. By the end of his sophomore year Bailey had a nice jump shot. Cliff doesn’t have that yet. Bailey was a legit AA; maybe next year for Cliff?
I graduated in '77 and watched Bailey for 2 years and then sporadically thereafter. Bailey was definitely more of a polished product as a sophomore. That being said, in my view, Omoruyi is more athletic than Bailey ever was. He's quicker, jumps higher and, most importantly, he is a quick twitch jumper. In other words, in my view, there is no one that gets off the floor as quickly and as high as Omoruyi does. It's almost super human. If he gains another 20lbs of muscle and is able to maintain that elite athleticism with that added weight, the sky is the limit. I think he could become a 1st Round NBA pick -- but only if he's able to figure out how to shoot his one handed jump hook with his finger tips and with some arc/touch. That is one bad looking form he displays. I would think he could correct that, but he continues to "flat-line" that shot like 4 out of 5 times he shoots it.
As to the rest of his offensive game game, in my view, he actually looks better facing up and shooting the mid range or 3 pointer than you'd expect from such a raw offensive player. If we had another monster rebounder on the court with him at the same time, he could wind up being as good of an outside threat as -- say -- Kadeem Jack was. I don't see why he can't become that type of player too.
As for defense, he has a long way to go. Any center who is strong and good around the basket, has eaten him up this year. He consistently overplays the strong side of his opposition and does not react well (too slowly) when they spin in the opposite direction. This is typically true in the first half of games. In the 2nd half he seems to learn from his mistakes and adjusts. He's also improving as shot blocker. Not quite at the level of Hamady or Myles, but getting there.
As to the rest of his offensive game game, in my view, he actually looks better facing up and shooting the mid range or 3 pointer than you'd expect from such a raw offensive player. If we had another monster rebounder on the court with him at the same time, he could wind up being as good of an outside threat as -- say -- Kadeem Jack was. I don't see why he can't become that type of player too.
As for defense, he has a long way to go. Any center who is strong and good around the basket, has eaten him up this year. He consistently overplays the strong side of his opposition and does not react well (too slowly) when they spin in the opposite direction. This is typically true in the first half of games. In the 2nd half he seems to learn from his mistakes and adjusts. He's also improving as shot blocker. Not quite at the level of Hamady or Myles, but getting there.
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After seeing his development over the last year it’s hard not to believe that Cliff has a chance to become one of the all time greats here.
I love Cliff, but I don’t think we should be comparing him to James Bailey just yet.
Someone mentioned the completeness of Bailey’s game. Comparing his sophomore year to Cliff’s sophomore year, in five more minutes a game, Bailey averaged three times as many steals, three times as many assists, twice as many blocks. He also had an extra five points a game and three rebounds per game.
He also had a good handle by his sophomore year. When Bailey stepped into a passing lane and picked off a pass with the entire court in front of him, you knew he could get end to end and finish, unlike most big men where you held your breath. I don’t know if turnover statistics were kept at that time. But I doubt if he had many.
I would be very happy if Cliff can give us in his junior year what James Bailey gave in his sophomore year.
in some ways, Cliff has exceeded my expectations. I did not expect him to be such a defensive presence inside this year; it was obvious he had the physical tools, but I was not sure he had that mindset. hopefully, that upward trend will continue. I also think he has a pretty nice stroke and would not be surprised to see him shoot about 30 pointers next year and to make a respectable percentage.
Someone mentioned the completeness of Bailey’s game. Comparing his sophomore year to Cliff’s sophomore year, in five more minutes a game, Bailey averaged three times as many steals, three times as many assists, twice as many blocks. He also had an extra five points a game and three rebounds per game.
He also had a good handle by his sophomore year. When Bailey stepped into a passing lane and picked off a pass with the entire court in front of him, you knew he could get end to end and finish, unlike most big men where you held your breath. I don’t know if turnover statistics were kept at that time. But I doubt if he had many.
I would be very happy if Cliff can give us in his junior year what James Bailey gave in his sophomore year.
in some ways, Cliff has exceeded my expectations. I did not expect him to be such a defensive presence inside this year; it was obvious he had the physical tools, but I was not sure he had that mindset. hopefully, that upward trend will continue. I also think he has a pretty nice stroke and would not be surprised to see him shoot about 30 pointers next year and to make a respectable percentage.
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I would definitely say Bailey was better. I remember the game against nationally ranked Cincinnati at Madison Square Garden his sophomore year when he really burst out and we blew them out by about 20 points. Cliff still has a ways to go to catch up to JB, and thats no knock on Cliff.
Dunking was banned Baileys first year and allowed the following three
I honestly don’t remember him failing dunk attempts, the defenders of the day might have been less able
He had a better overall game at this point in time, comparison wise
I think he got drafted around sixth or so, trying to guess without looking
There was one play fairly late in the PSU game though where all Cliff needed to do was a little kiss off the glass for an easy 2 when the team really needed it. He tried a semi awkward dunk though and the ball popped out and kept up the PSU momentum. I literally yelled (from the 300 level) that "you don't need to dunk everything Cliff."
I have mentioned this game often, one of my favorite game memories
I remember that game. He and Abdel Anderson came out and sat right next to me to watch some of the second game of the doubleheader. I remember Mike Palko walking up to Bailey and saying “that was the best game I ever saw anybody play.“
BTW, my law school roommate worked with Anderson quite a bit when he was a Union county assistant prosecutor and Anderson was a detective. He thought the world of Anderson, both personally and professionally.
Agree on the quick twitch comment. Bailey was very quick though. In addition to blocks Bailey stole the ball a lot. Bailey was a highly skilled collegiate offensive player by his senior year. He was the #6 pick in the draft. Cliffs offense reminds me a little more of Hinson than Bailey but cliff has tremendous upside.
I think sixth was exactly where he went; at the beginning of his senior year we were expecting top three.
I disagree with this analysis. Overall, Bailey’s quick twitch was unparalleled. Only Hinson got off the floor as quickly as Bailey. Bailey was like a cat reacting and breaking up interior passes, and we’ve never had someone like that. His acceleration off the floor slowed down as he got older and couldn’t carry the extra weight he put on. Before that, it was amazing how we got off the floor. He remains the only person I ever saw get to a Kareem Abdul-Jabbar skyhook at its apex and knock it back into the stands.
I can comment
JB was a 6’9 200 lb explosive but quick athlete and used both to overpower weaker Athelstan and out skill quicker players
It’s probably better to compare cliff right now to James Bailey as a frosh . Even with cliff getting better nunbers
Cliff is a raw power athlete that is starting to use his athleticism in a refined way with touch. In that regard he is a lot more like Roy Hinson on offense as a soph than James Bailey
JB was a 6’9 200 lb explosive but quick athlete and used both to overpower weaker Athelstan and out skill quicker players
It’s probably better to compare cliff right now to James Bailey as a frosh . Even with cliff getting better nunbers
Cliff is a raw power athlete that is starting to use his athleticism in a refined way with touch. In that regard he is a lot more like Roy Hinson on offense as a soph than James Bailey
I agree that the Hinson comparison is better. And the best part is that Hinson continued to improve, and his improvement actually accelerated, through his senior year when he became about the best shot blocker in the country. Hinson also continued to improve on the offensive end throughout, and was a much better offensive player than James Bailey in the pros. So while I don’t think you can compare Cliff to Bailey at this point, maybe his trajectory will be like Hinson.
Do you remember Lloyd Moore? Tom Young actually thought he had the tools to be better on offense than either Hinson or Bailey. He was actually by far the highest rated of the bunch coming out of high school and going to Marquette. It’s too bad he had the injuries and weight issues. But I still think kicking him off the team was the beginning of the end for Littlepaige.
Let me begin with this—my memory’s not good enough to discuss James’ play from one year to the next, It’s a recollection of “James at Rutgers.”
I think there’s a big gap between what Cliff could do and what James could. Cliff is longer, can run faster, and probably/maybe jump higher. But James was much, much stronger (just a matter of body type, not getting in the gym) and defensively could protect the paint like nobody’s business. You couldn’t move James. His hands were strong and sure, Cliff’s are neither. James had a very nice mid-range game, and Cliff’s is developing. Both seem to really thrive on the competition.
Anyway, that’s my opinion. Cliff’s game has developed A LOT in the time he’s been here and there’s no reason to think he won’t continue to. Good chance that next year he’ll get mentions when folks discuss all-conference teams. And ten times out of ten, I’d prefer him on my team over Myles.
I think there’s a big gap between what Cliff could do and what James could. Cliff is longer, can run faster, and probably/maybe jump higher. But James was much, much stronger (just a matter of body type, not getting in the gym) and defensively could protect the paint like nobody’s business. You couldn’t move James. His hands were strong and sure, Cliff’s are neither. James had a very nice mid-range game, and Cliff’s is developing. Both seem to really thrive on the competition.
Anyway, that’s my opinion. Cliff’s game has developed A LOT in the time he’s been here and there’s no reason to think he won’t continue to. Good chance that next year he’ll get mentions when folks discuss all-conference teams. And ten times out of ten, I’d prefer him on my team over Myles.
Bailey could not dunk freshman year.
That’s what I see …Hinson best basketball was still years after he left Rutgers …and I expect cliff to be the same ; whereas JB was a fully developed skill player went he hit the nba …with only a little bit more of a Jump shot
Roy Hinson became good enough that he was eventually traded straight up for the number one pick in the draft …Brad daughterty of UNC
Bailey was in my class so I saw all 4 years. To answer the OP, Bailey as a sophomore was a much better shot blocker, had better hands, better footwork and much stronger upper body. Cliff is more athletic, has a longer wingspan and is a better leaper. We can only hope Cliff develops as Bailey did.
Bailey had 88 dunks as a sophomore, 116 as a junior, and 79 as a senior.
Bailey had 88 dunks as a sophomore, 116 as a junior, and 79 as a senior.
Can’t look at draft of a big man anymore. NBA has completely changed. I feel bad for guys like Cockburn. 20 years ago the guy would’ve been the number 1 pick and made a fortune. Now he may not even get a look.
