Soph Cliff Omoruyi and Soph James Bailey

[Plum Street]

Can’t look at draft of a big man anymore. NBA has completely changed. I feel bad for guys like Cockburn. 20 years ago the guy would’ve been the number 1 pick and made a fortune. Now he may not even get a look.

Bailey was an all-American . Let’s hope Cliff makes one of the all league teams next year.

 

[rufeelinit]

I can comment

JB was a 6’9 200 lb explosive but quick athlete and used both to overpower weaker Athelstan and out skill quicker players

It’s probably better to compare cliff right now to James Bailey as a frosh . Even with cliff getting better nunbers

Cliff is a raw power athlete that is starting to use his athleticism in a refined way with touch. In that regard he is a lot more like Roy Hinson on offense as a soph than James Bailey

Shack,

Wasn't Bailey bigger than 200 lbs? He certainly was his JR and SR years right? I mean Cliff is a physical specimen as well but lean compared to what I recall with JB. JB definitely had a more diversified offensive skill set than what Cliff has shown thus far. Good topic for a thread.

 

[BillyC80]

Bailey was a sophomore when I was a freshman, and he remains one of my favorite all-time Rutgers players. Bailey was an exceptional athlete who would be able to succeed in any era of RU hoops. That said, I believe Cliff is facing tougher competition in the B1G than Bailey faced with our schedule from the mid-70s.

 

[Rutgers8086]

Bailey was a sophomore when I was a freshman, and he remains one of my favorite all-time Rutgers players. Bailey was an exceptional athlete who would be able to succeed in any era of RU hoops. That said, I believe Cliff is facing tougher competition in the B1G than Bailey faced with our schedule from the mid-70s.

James could take over the game. Although my memory is foggy due to too much time in the Rusty Screw Tavern or Patti’s, didnt he score like 6 points in the last 10 seconds to beat Manhattan? With no foul shots.
Cliff isn’t there …..yet.

 

[MadRU]

 

[coldsprings]

James could take over the game. Although my memory is foggy due to too much time in the Rusty Screw Tavern or Patti’s, didnt he score like 6 points in the last 10 seconds to beat Manhattan? With no foul shots.
Cliff isn’t there …..yet.

Exactly. As good as Cliff has been this year, he doesn't yet dominate the way Bailey did. Cliff delivers highlight stretches, James delivered electrifying whole games. For me, Bailey was the greatest player to ever play for RU.

 

[goru7]

Was at Rutgers 75-79. James Bailey went from a thin sting bean quick jumper his freshman year to putting more weight on every year thereafter. He couldn’t dunk freshman year because of the Alcindor Rule but he made up for later as Antnee’s post attests. He was cat light quickness and great first step and a soft jumper. He was a tremendous rim protector. In my opinion by Junior year , he was the best player in the country and he got to play Larry Bird in the NIT as a junior at the RAC and it was close. Ironically , if we do not get upset by St, John’s in 79 , he likely plays against Magic Johnson and Greg Kelser in the Final Four. Bailey was unstoppable as a Junior . I was at the beat down of the ranked Cincinnati team and their All American at MSG and Bailey ate him for lunch as we cruised 89-70. He added weight too much his senior year and for the pros , which was necessary for the physical play in the NBA , and never was the same explosive player even though he was drafted 6th overall by Seattle SuperSonics.

Cliff has unbelievable first jump explosion and can knock down a 10-16 footer and has come a long way but nowhere in Bailey ‘s class defensively as a shot blocker but he is improving every day. He has to work on his handle so he can face up and drive around other centers and 2 steps later it is a dunk.

One other nugget about James and dunks. Louisville had the MCCray brothers and Daryl Griffith and they were known as the Doctors of Dunk and were on the cover of Sports Illustrated in his junior year. They had like 85 dunks between the 3 of them. What a joke as James had 111 by himself. Rodney Duncan gave him 5 of them against Cincy that day at the Garden. Although we were a powerhouse on the East Coast we weren’t the national name like Louisville and they got most of the media attention along with Bird and Magic

 

[BigRnj]

I was at RU for Bailey‘s senior year (and all 4 of Hinson’s). I think Cliff has more raw athleticism than both (easy). Cliff is still lacking in hoops skills/experience… but zero knock against JB or RH (I’m a huge fan of both and both are great guys), they played against much lesser opponents then Cliff does in the Big 10. Cliff has a huge upside (greater potential than both of his predecessor) but he still may not reach JB and RH level of success due to the changing game and due to his late start.

FWIW Cliff is a little behind JB at this point in his career but pretty darn close to RH. if he develops at his current rate and stays 4 years he could surpass both.

 

[Rutgers8086]

Was at Rutgers 75-79. James Bailey went from a thin sting bean quick jumper his freshman year to putting more weight on every year thereafter. He couldn’t dunk freshman year because of the Alcindor Rule but he made up for later as Antnee’s post attests. He was cat light quickness and great first step and a soft jumper. He was a tremendous rim protector. In my opinion by Junior year , he was the best player in the country and he got to play Larry Bird in the NIT as a junior at the RAC and it was close. Ironically , if we do not get upset by St, John’s in 79 , he likely plays against Magic Johnson and Greg Kelser in the Final Four. Bailey was unstoppable as a Junior . I was at the beat down of the ranked Cincinnati team and their All American at MSG and Bailey ate him for lunch as we cruised 89-70. He added weight too much his senior year and for the pros , which was necessary for the physical play in the NBA , and never was the same explosive player even though he was drafted 6th overall by Seattle SuperSonics.

Cliff has unbelievable first jump explosion and can knock down a 10-16 footer and has come a long way but nowhere in Bailey ‘s class defensively as a shot blocker but he is improving every day. He has to work on his handle so he can face up and drive around other centers and 2 steps later it is a dunk.

One other nugget about James and dunks. Louisville had the MCCray brothers and Daryl Griffith and they were known as the Doctors of Dunk and were on the cover of Sports Illustrated in his junior year. They had like 85 dunks between the 3 of them. What a joke as James had 111 by himself. Rodney Duncan gave him 5 of them against Cincy that day at the Garden. Although we were a powerhouse on the East Coast we weren’t the national name like Louisville and they got most of the media attention along with Bird and Magic

I was at the Bird/Bailey game. One of my best college sports experiences.

 

[rutger80]

Was at Rutgers 75-79. James Bailey went from a thin sting bean quick jumper his freshman year to putting more weight on every year thereafter. He couldn’t dunk freshman year because of the Alcindor Rule but he made up for later as Antnee’s post attests. He was cat light quickness and great first step and a soft jumper. He was a tremendous rim protector. In my opinion by Junior year , he was the best player in the country and he got to play Larry Bird in the NIT as a junior at the RAC and it was close. Ironically , if we do not get upset by St, John’s in 79 , he likely plays against Magic Johnson and Greg Kelser in the Final Four. Bailey was unstoppable as a Junior . I was at the beat down of the ranked Cincinnati team and their All American at MSG and Bailey ate him for lunch as we cruised 89-70. He added weight too much his senior year and for the pros , which was necessary for the physical play in the NBA , and never was the same explosive player even though he was drafted 6th overall by Seattle SuperSonics.

Cliff has unbelievable first jump explosion and can knock down a 10-16 footer and has come a long way but nowhere in Bailey ‘s class defensively as a shot blocker but he is improving every day. He has to work on his handle so he can face up and drive around other centers and 2 steps later it is a dunk.

One other nugget about James and dunks. Louisville had the MCCray brothers and Daryl Griffith and they were known as the Doctors of Dunk and were on the cover of Sports Illustrated in his junior year. They had like 85 dunks between the 3 of them. What a joke as James had 111 by himself. Rodney Duncan gave him 5 of them against Cincy that day at the Garden. Although we were a powerhouse on the East Coast we weren’t the national name like Louisville and they got most of the media attention along with Bird and Magic

I think that was Pat Cummings for Cincinnati.
If Cliff can continue to develop that jumper.....look out.

But, yes, he has to get stronger to get anywhere near the Bailey's and Hinson's level of defense.

 

[Unionst]

I graduated in '77 and watched Bailey for 2 years and then sporadically thereafter. Bailey was definitely more of a polished product as a sophomore. That being said, in my view, Omoruyi is more athletic than Bailey ever was. He's quicker, jumps higher and, most importantly, he is a quick twitch jumper. In other words, in my view, there is no one that gets off the floor as quickly and as high as Omoruyi does. It's almost super human. If he gains another 20lbs of muscle and is able to maintain that elite athleticism with that added weight, the sky is the limit. I think he could become a 1st Round NBA pick -- but only if he's able to figure out how to shoot his one handed jump hook with his finger tips and with some arc/touch. That is one bad looking form he displays. I would think he could correct that, but he continues to "flat-line" that shot like 4 out of 5 times he shoots it.

As to the rest of his offensive game game, in my view, he actually looks better facing up and shooting the mid range or 3 pointer than you'd expect from such a raw offensive player. If we had another monster rebounder on the court with him at the same time, he could wind up being as good of an outside threat as -- say -- Kadeem Jack was. I don't see why he can't become that type of player too.

As for defense, he has a long way to go. Any center who is strong and good around the basket, has eaten him up this year. He consistently overplays the strong side of his opposition and does not react well (too slowly) when they spin in the opposite direction. This is typically true in the first half of games. In the 2nd half he seems to learn from his mistakes and adjusts. He's also improving as shot blocker. Not quite at the level of Hamady or Myles, but getting there.

No, Bailey was an incredible leaper. He was the most athletic big in the country in his sophomore and junior years. He may have lost a bit of this when he bulked up his senior year.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Shack,

Wasn't Bailey bigger than 200 lbs? He certainly was his JR and SR years right? I mean Cliff is a physical specimen as well but lean compared to what I recall with JB. JB definitely had a more diversified offensive skill set than what Cliff has shown thus far. Good topic for a thread.

James Bailey was 200 lbs as a junior and the nba scouts told him he needed to gain weight so he came back 230 and a lot thicker (and a bit less explosive ) as a senior .

Bailey was a complete offensive player as a center . Ir didn’t hurt he played with Hollis Copeland , Abdel Anderson and kelvin troy

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Was at Rutgers 75-79. James Bailey went from a thin sting bean quick jumper his freshman year to putting more weight on every year thereafter. He couldn’t dunk freshman year because of the Alcindor Rule but he made up for later as Antnee’s post attests. He was cat light quickness and great first step and a soft jumper. He was a tremendous rim protector. In my opinion by Junior year , he was the best player in the country and he got to play Larry Bird in the NIT as a junior at the RAC and it was close. Ironically , if we do not get upset by St, John’s in 79 , he likely plays against Magic Johnson and Greg Kelser in the Final Four. Bailey was unstoppable as a Junior . I was at the beat down of the ranked Cincinnati team and their All American at MSG and Bailey ate him for lunch as we cruised 89-70. He added weight too much his senior year and for the pros , which was necessary for the physical play in the NBA , and never was the same explosive player even though he was drafted 6th overall by Seattle SuperSonics.

Cliff has unbelievable first jump explosion and can knock down a 10-16 footer and has come a long way but nowhere in Bailey ‘s class defensively as a shot blocker but he is improving every day. He has to work on his handle so he can face up and drive around other centers and 2 steps later it is a dunk.

One other nugget about James and dunks. Louisville had the MCCray brothers and Daryl Griffith and they were known as the Doctors of Dunk and were on the cover of Sports Illustrated in his junior year. They had like 85 dunks between the 3 of them. What a joke as James had 111 by himself. Rodney Duncan gave him 5 of them against Cincy that day at the Garden. Although we were a powerhouse on the East Coast we weren’t the national name like Louisville and they got most of the media attention along with Bird and Magic

This is accurate …except I think he had almost 130 dunks on the junior year

His game was hurt his senior year also when tom young and Rodney Duncan had their spat and Rodney Duncan was never seen in a Rutgers uniform ever again .

We had a complete team except a scoring point guard that Rodney Duncan was supposed to be. …tom brown did well filling in as a set up guy, but wasn’t suited to play faster with Bailey , Anderson , Troy and Strickland (all double digit scorers )….took two months to straighten that out to put together as a more half court the end season run …and Baileys numbers went up in the final 10-12 games .

Bailey was already the center piece of the team his soph year …leapfrogging senior Eddie Jordan and Hollis Copeland ….cliff is still not the centerpiece …thars next year …so this will be an interesting revisit this time next year

 

[BigRnj]

I can’t emphasize enough that Bailey’s 116 dunks came against the likes of St Bonaventure. Its an entirely different game against Big Ten Bigs. We’re comparing apples and oranges putting Baily‘s dunks next to Cliff’s. Not taking anything away from JB, he still may have led the nation but Cockburn, Edy, Williams, … are a bigger defensive hurdle.

 

[CranfordKnight]

I knew James when I was at RU. One of the nicest guys you ever met. After he left pro - ball my High School had him come in and give the athletes a speech and it was awesome.

He told the crowd how he ended up at RU. He had many schools recruiting him and RU wasn't one them at first. He said how great the recruiting trips were. How he would get picked up at the airports in limo's, would go to dinner at the best steak houses etc. RU came to his house, outside of Boston, and his mother loved how RU pushed the academics and made him go on a a visit.

He got to Newark and was looking for a Limo driver with his name on a placard. Didn't see one but a team manager came up to him and said follow him. They went outside and he was looking for a limo. Nope, the manager walked him to his Ford Pinto and he said he almost didn't fit.

He finally got to RU and he was told to go to a certain room in Campbell Hall. Once he got there a bunch of players welcomed him and he hung out for a while. He said he was getting hungry. One of the players said then lets head over to the Castle. He though, wow a steak house named The Castle. They ended up at White Castle.

He had the room rolling by the time he was done but he said his mother was correct and an education means everything and as we know he ended up doing very well in private industry after his 10 years in the pros.

I think I read somewhere that in his junior year he had more dunks then the whole Phi Slama Jama team that year

I was really hoping he got to a game this year.

Thanks for sharing this story. My son is a student living in Campbell Hall this year. He'll get a kick out of this.

 

[80RU]

Bailey was in my class so I saw all 4 years. To answer the OP, Bailey as a sophomore was a much better shot blocker, had better hands, better footwork and much stronger upper body. Cliff is more athletic, has a longer wingspan and is a better leaper. We can only hope Cliff develops as Bailey did.

Bailey had 88 dunks as a sophomore, 116 as a junior, and 79 as a senior.

Agree with all except the upper body strength -- where Cliff is at least JB's equal at this stage -- and leaping ability -- where Bailey could really sky prior to the weight gain. Remember that Bailey graduated at 230, but was a stringbean and incredibly lithe, yet explosive, at this stage.

 

[DennisHajekRC84]

Cliff is the closest thing we have had to Bailey. Cliff is longer than Hinson but not the defender Hinson was, at least not yet. He can certainly get there. Bailey was an extraordinary athlete; definitely could go above the backboard box for alley oops (as they were called back then) much like Cliff. By the end of his sophomore year Bailey had a nice jump shot. Cliff doesn’t have that yet. Bailey was a legit AA; maybe next year for Cliff?

Cliff has made a few this year but not taken a lot of them. Did you see the one from near the foul line on Sat? Stoke as smooth as James' was. He'll be a BIG weapon next year away from the basket. If he can pull people away and Reiber doing the same that would be a great thing for the offense.

 

[DennisHajekRC84]

I agree that the Hinson comparison is better. And the best part is that Hinson continued to improve, and his improvement actually accelerated, through his senior year when he became about the best shot blocker in the country. Hinson also continued to improve on the offensive end throughout, and was a much better offensive player than James Bailey in the pros. So while I don’t think you can compare Cliff to Bailey at this point, maybe his trajectory will be like Hinson.

I think Roy could jump up and take a dime of the top of the backboard (as they say). I remeber a dunk at the RAC vs. WVU where I think his armpit was over the rim.

 

[shields]

This was a really good thread.

 

[Scarlet1984]

Great thread.

I like the comparison to Hinson - more appropriate.

Comparison to Bailey is basically sacrilege at this point in Cliff’s career 😊

 

[wheezer]

Bailey was in my class so I saw all 4 years. To answer the OP, Bailey as a sophomore was a much better shot blocker, had better hands, better footwork and much stronger upper body. Cliff is more athletic, has a longer wingspan and is a better leaper. We can only hope Cliff develops as Bailey did.

Bailey had 88 dunks as a sophomore, 116 as a junior, and 79 as a senior.

Baileys numbers tailed off a bit his senior year
Some of it could have been opponents double teaming him a bit more

Others thought he put on some unnecessary weight following the advice of some
advisors, and it was a slight negative instead