Still better off without Spencer & Mulcahy

[RU-ROCS]

I agree 100% with all those who say Cam was a big loss. There is little doubt we would be much better right now with him a starter. (We likely would have beaten Princeton with him too).

As much as I loved Paul and was thankful for his time on the Banks, he is replaceable and the team may be better without him in the new higher tempo offense. Right now the only one likely missing Paul is Cliff because Paul did a MUCH better job of feeding the post than Fernandes.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

This is where you and others are 100% wrong. You only play 5 on the court at the same time and only 2 or 3 are guards. You would not get a 23 point performance from Simpson and 25 point game from Gavin Griffiths, if Mulcahy and Spencee are here. Same for Fernandes in his last 2 games and same for Davis vs Boston or his 1st half vs Georgetown.

There are only so many minutes or shot attempts during a 40 minute game. And I will repeat, you HAVE to develop some players that will be here in 2024-25.....less minutes for Davis, Simpson and Griffiths, makes 24-25 much more difficult to succeed. If we can actually understand there are items or factors beyond 1 season, we would all be better off.

SO MANY HOLES HERE!

Why wouldn't Spencer or Cliff score the 23 or 25 points?
If we are worried about not enough shot attempts Paul, who doesn't shoot, helps that problem

This team has been pretty bad offensively the 1st 5 games.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Right now the only one likely missing Paul is Cliff

that's a pretty darn important player. Especially since each incremental touch he would receive from Paul is pretty much 2 points.

 

[MADHAT1]

"Cam was a big loss"
How big or how little will be judged by the end of this season
If Rutgers doesn't make the Tourney, like last year, we might feel his game was missed
But if RU, this season, does better than it did last year losing Cam might not be looked on as a big loss.
RU doesn't make the Dance again, guess we can say Cam was needed and his loss hurt.
What Spencer does at UConn doesn't interest me, what RU does this season without Cam is what counts

 

[friar10]

Going without Mulcahy I can agree with. Don't think there is a team in the country that would not take Spencer the guy can shoot and just about every team in the country can use that.

 

[mugrat86]

SO MANY HOLES HERE!

Why wouldn't Spencer or Cliff score the 23 or 25 points?
If we are worried about not enough shot attempts Paul, who doesn't shoot, helps that problem

This team has been pretty bad offensively the 1st 5 games.

Not sure why you say offense is pretty bad. Very poor against Princeton, but they have gotten progressively better each game. The free throws are an issue though

 

[RUChoppin]

Not sure why you say offense is pretty bad. Very poor against Princeton, but they have gotten progressively better each game. The free throws are an issue though

Through five games, our FG% rates 243rd nationally, and our 3P% is 304th. We're still only averaging 70.4 points a game (254th nationally).

Our offense has not been good.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Sample Size is 5. So I know this is silly

this year adj offensive efficiency we are 248th
last year AFTER Michigan State until end of year we were 163rd

that includes no Mag and BAD Paul

 

[JavaDunk18]

Enough with the stats..
With the eye test, no one can say the team at the end of the year last year on offense was better than this team..

 

[Nycrusupporter]

Enough with the stats..
With the eye test, no one can say the team at the end of the year last year on offense was better than this team..

So far this year we have played a bunch of crappy teams, as opposed to the end of last year when we were playing our BIG schedule. You can’t make any judgements about this offense until we start playing some better competition.

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

This is a strange take considering both Paul and Cam moved to teams that play faster than Rutgers and are doing well so far

This take would have made sense prior to the season

These guys are fooling themselves about Cam & Paul. Both have played well against better competition than what RU has faced thus far in OOC. They've each walked into new situations and haven't missed a beat.

Of course, once RU hits conference play and these guys don't look so hot, the same people here extolling their virtues of Fernandes and others to slight Cam & Paul will be the first ones to turn the game threads into superfund sites.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

LOL - maybe if he continues his pace as the 5th option, he'll end up 1st team All Big East. The mental gymnastics here are amazing.

So your saying Cam is UConns best or 2nd best player....LMAO

 

[RU848789]

So far this year we have played a bunch of crappy teams, as opposed to the end of last year when we were playing our BIG schedule. You can’t make any judgements about this offense until we start playing some better competition.

Exactly and the "eye test" against our one good opponent so far was a dismal failure. Now that's a sample size of one and it's pretty clear there have been improvements since the Princeton game, but we still don't know yet how we're going to fare against much better teams - but we'll see soon. It's also nuts to me that people can't admit that we'd be better with Cam - maybe not Paul (who is less skilled than Cam, at least offensively), but definitely Cam, as our shooting/FT shooting are still pretty bad and there's no doubt we'd be better on those counts.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

SO MANY HOLES HERE!

Why wouldn't Spencer or Cliff score the 23 or 25 points?
If we are worried about not enough shot attempts Paul, who doesn't shoot, helps that problem

This team has been pretty bad offensively the 1st 5 games.

There are no holes here. I have a full season of data and evidence last year. What makes you think that it would be better this year, vs a full season of evidence that already occurred??

If I looked at the 1st 5 games last year, we can pull up the threads last year. There were VERY legitimate concerns about Spencer once we played Temple and Miami.

I have the stat lines from those 2 games....was the offense better last year than this year?? No chance.

The team as it was constructed with Spencer and Mulcahy as the starting back court and playing 32 to 34 minutesa game, failed in February and early March.

The backcourt strength in 2023-24 is simply better, quicker in every aspect of overall offense and defense, based on the eye-test. And that's with Fernandes playing badly for 2 and a half games and 2 true freshman in Griffiths and Davis.

The overall team is going to be measured on whether they make the NCAAs. If we make the NCAAs this season, wouldn't that be enough evidence that the backcourt this year is better than last year??

I am looking for what measurements we are basing things on.....stats mean very little from one team to another one, it takes everything out of context. We essentially have the same front court as last year, with Cliff, Woolfolk, Mag (once he returns) Hyatt and Palmquist. We lost Reiber and gained Ogbole, who is injured.

The backcourt last year was Mulcahy, Spencer, Caleb, Simpson and Jalen Miller.

The backcourt this year only has 1 returning piece in Simpson. We literally would not even have this discussion, if Jeremiah Williams was cleared and playing. There are upgrades across the board.

If RU is playing Wisconsin or Northwestern and has to play a slower pace, these guards can do that.

If RU plays Michigan State, Iowa, Nebraska or another faster paced opponent, we now have the ability to play either style to compete.

There was literally no chance to compete with an Iowa style, a Nebraska style or others that push the tempo last year. The margins of defeat were pretty wide on the road, which is how you ultimately measure things. Judging RU by watching games at the RAC, is essentially watching two different teams most often. It got so bad last year that we couldn't keep up at home vs Iowa, Michigan, Nebraska Northwestern at the RAC.....did those things not happen with Spencer and Mulcahy as the backcourt??

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

Not sure why you say offense is pretty bad. Very poor against Princeton, but they have gotten progressively better each game. The free throws are an issue though

They are averaging less points than last season through the first 5 games:
2023 - 70.4 ppg; 3 games where team total was in the 60s
2022 - 75.6 ppg; 1 game where team total was in the 60s

Unfortunately NET is not available yet for the current season so I used last year's NET to get an average score:
2023 - 196.2
2022 - 223.4
Statistically not much difference to account for a 5.2 ppg decrease.

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

I see Hawk is trying to fake it until he makes it again as a basketball expert. Poor guy...lol.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

Let's simplify the discussion

If we are watching other guards, just in the B1G, which is already carrying a reputation as not being a guard-csntric league, are Mulcahy and Spencer going to keep up with the following guards.

Dug McDaniel-Michigan
Boo Buie- Northwestern
Tosianga-Nebraska
Tyson Walker-Michigan State
Xavier Johnson-Indiana

These are guards that did damage against RU last year and that was with the Defensively Player of the Year, Caleb McConnell and Cliff as a paint presence, in a slower paced game.

Why would any logical RU fan, believe it would be any different this year, when Caleb isn't on the floor??

Once you add in Mulcahy's lack of scoring (7 to 8 points per game, doesn't offset opposing guards scoring 13 to 16), how do you make up for that??

Keep in mind, that was with a Top 20ish ranked national defense, carried primarily by Caleb and Cliff. We need better on the ball defense, to protect the paint and get more scoring from the backcourt on offense.

There's just no math that justifies guards scoring 12 PPG (Spencer), 8PPG (Mulcahy) and 9PPG (Caleb) against Power 5 competition....I can somewhat justify carrying Caleb's lack of offense because his defense was elite for an extended 2 year run. But if the other guards don't offset that lack of offense, we have last year's lack of results.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

I see Hawk is trying to fake it until he makes it again as a basketball expert. Poor guy...lol.

And yet you and others hang onto my every post.......it's not being an expert, it's watching the games and simple math.

 

[Nycrusupporter]

So your saying Cam is UConns best or 2nd best player....LMAO

Hurley said he has 5 starters who on any given day can score between 16-20 points and as long as at least two do in any game they will be very tough to beat. He is happy to ride hot hands and take advantage of individual matchups, and doesn’t really care where the points come from. And whether Cam is in the top 2 or top 5 doesn‘t really matter when they would paste us by 40 points if we faced them.

 

[RU848789]

There are no holes here. I have a full season of data and evidence last year. What makes you think that it would be better this year, vs a full season of evidence that already occurred??

If I looked at the 1st 5 games last year, we can pull up the threads last year. There were VERY legitimate concerns about Spencer once we played Temple and Miami.

I have the stat lines from those 2 games....was the offense better last year than this year?? No chance.

The team as it was constructed with Spencer and Mulcahy as the starting back court and playing 32 to 34 minutesa game, failed in February and early March.

The backcourt strength in 2023-24 is simply better, quicker in every aspect of overall offense and defense, based on the eye-test. And that's with Fernandes playing badly for 2 and a half games and 2 true freshman in Griffiths and Davis.

The overall team is going to be measured on whether they make the NCAAs. If we make the NCAAs this season, wouldn't that be enough evidence that the backcourt this year is better than last year??

I am looking for what measurements we are basing things on.....stats mean very little from one team to another one, it takes everything out of context. We essentially have the same front court as last year, with Cliff, Woolfolk, Mag (once he returns) Hyatt and Palmquist. We lost Reiber and gained Ogbole, who is injured.

The backcourt last year was Mulcahy, Spencer, Caleb, Simpson and Jalen Miller.

The backcourt this year only has 1 returning piece in Simpson. We literally would not even have this discussion, if Jeremiah Williams was cleared and playing. There are upgrades across the board.

If RU is playing Wisconsin or Northwestern and has to play a slower pace, these guards can do that.

If RU plays Michigan State, Iowa, Nebraska or another faster paced opponent, we now have the ability to play either style to compete.

There was literally no chance to compete with an Iowa style, a Nebraska style or others that push the tempo last year. The margins of defeat were pretty wide on the road, which is how you ultimately measure things. Judging RU by watching games at the RAC, is essentially watching two different teams most often. It got so bad last year that we couldn't keep up at home vs Iowa, Michigan, Nebraska Northwestern at the RAC.....did those things not happen with Spencer and Mulcahy as the backcourt??

Somehow you keep ignoring the fact that we were an 8/9 seed when Mag went down and might've been even better than that if he had kept playing and we kept winning and that would've been with Paul/Cam obviously. Plus Paul was hurting. I hope we don't have the ability to compare what the loss of Mag last year is like with not having him this year (for the meat of the schedule), as I hope he's back in the next game or two and fully contributing by the B1G schedule.

Although we will have the upcoming 3 tough games (IL/WF/SHU) to play, very likely with minimal impact from a recovering Mag, so we'll get some sense of what our current backcout brings to the game vs. last year's.

 

[bitnez]

These guys are fooling themselves about Cam & Paul. Both have played well against better competition than what RU has faced thus far in OOC. They've each walked into new situations and haven't missed a beat.

Of course, once RU hits conference play and these guys don't look so hot, the same people here extolling their virtues of Fernandes and others to slight Cam & Paul will be the first ones to turn the game threads into superfund sites.

Cam went from being the guy here to like the 4th option at UConn. Amazing how some guys seem to embrace being Robin rather than Batman.

 

[RUInsanity]

They are averaging less points than last season through the first 5 games:
2023 - 70.4 ppg; 3 games where team total was in the 60s
2022 - 75.6 ppg; 1 game where team total was in the 60s

Unfortunately NET is not available yet for the current season so I used last year's NET to get an average score:
2023 - 196.2
2022 - 223.4
Statistically not much difference to account for a 5.2 ppg decrease.

IMO the competition through the first 5 games last year was worse than this year. Also, sometimes the eye test does come into play. If you didn't watch you might wonder why GG' is even in the rotation.....his numbers through the first 5 games... 0.250 from 3 and 56% FT%....3 assists and 11 turnovers. But most of us who watch the games can see his talent level on offense and what the potential is. That to me sums up how I feel about the team so far this year. I'm excited by the potential I see even though there are frustrating and down periods of performance.

 

[Scangg]

Through five games, our FG% rates 243rd nationally, and our 3P% is 304th. We're still only averaging 70.4 points a game (254th nationally).

Our offense has not been good.

Very poor numbers against weak competition. It's not good. Eye test says they are starting to gel, but we have to see how the offense looks against legit competition to know what this team is actually capable of this season.

Looking good offensively against Howard is a given

 

[Nycrusupporter]

Let's simplify the discussion

If we are watching other guards, just in the B1G, which is already carrying a reputation as not being a guard-csntric league, are Mulcahy and Spencer going to keep up with the following guards.

Dug McDaniel-Michigan
Boo Buie- Northwestern
Tosianga-Nebraska
Tyson Walker-Michigan State
Xavier Johnson-Indiana

These are guards that did damage against RU last year and that was with the Defensively Player of the Year, Caleb McConnell and Cliff as a paint presence, in a slower paced game.

Why would any logical RU fan, believe it would be any different this year, when Caleb isn't on the floor??

Once you add in Mulcahy's lack of scoring (7 to 8 points per game, doesn't offset opposing guards scoring 13 to 16), how do you make up for that??

Keep in mind, that was with a Top 20ish ranked national defense, carried primarily by Caleb and Cliff. We need better on the ball defense, to protect the paint and get more scoring from the backcourt on offense.

There's just no math that justifies guards scoring 12 PPG (Spencer), 8PPG (Mulcahy) and 9PPG (Caleb) against Power 5 competition....I can somewhat justify carrying Caleb's lack of offense because his defense was elite for an extended 2 year run. But if the other guards don't offset that lack of offense, we have last year's lack of results.

Cam just went up against Xavier Johnson, scored 18 points, and led the blowout of Indiana . . .

 

[JavaDunk18]

The team we will see in February will be way ahead of last year's team in Feb..
Offense & Defense
Maybe we win 6 of the last 8 this time

 

[toby83]

Cam just went up against Xavier Johnson, scored 18 points, and led the blowout of Indiana . . .

He's hilarious

 

[Nycrusupporter]

He's hilarious

I think he may be insane . . .

 

[SBP]

Paul and Cam would be awesome for this team.

Anyone saying otherwise is delusional.

Paul no, not the Paul I saw his last game. No thanks. We are faster and better. Cam? Maybe but too early to tell. I’ll take Gavin’s versatility especially when goes to the hoop like he did last game.

 

[JavaDunk18]

delusional. then why did we lose 6 of the last 8

 

[needmorecowbell]

This is a strange take considering both Paul and Cam moved to teams that play faster than Rutgers and are doing well so far

This take would have made sense prior to the season

This. The teams they went to play a lot faster than RU.

 

[needmorecowbell]

The team we will see in February will be way ahead of last year's team in Feb..
Offense & Defense
Maybe we win 6 of the last 8 this time

Rutgers was 16-7 (8-4 big ten) on Feb 4 after the Michigan St game at the garden. Mag was injured that day and the team wasn’t the same after. That was a very good team. I have no idea how this year’s team can be “way ahead” of that.

 

[JavaDunk18]

Last year’s team did not have Mag in February after the MSU game
Next February Mag will be back, probably in full form by then.
Gavin has already shown signs of Paul’s passing ability, and has much higher ceiling as a scorer
There was no flow or chemistry to the team after Mags injury
Chemistry on this team is already showing signs of 2019-20 team

 

[bitnez]

People want to ignore that our team had clear issues last year. Pike saw that the team needed a new floor leader and went and got Noah. It doesn’t mean Pike didn’t want Paul back it would’ve been a different role.

As for Cam, he would’ve been a really good piece on this team. He didn’t want to be here. And let’s not forget he didn’t leave for UConn — he was pretty much signed and sealed to GTown before UConn swooped in. He was going no matter what,

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

And yet you and others hang onto my every post.......it's not being an expert, it's watching the games and simple math.

You actually think I read more than the first sentence or two? 😂😂😂😂😂

You keep mistaking your OPINION for FACTS and you’ve been proven wrong time & again yet still carry on like the smartest person in the room.

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

Cam went from being the guy here to like the 4th option at UConn. Amazing how some guys seem to embrace being Robin rather than Batman.

Can wasn’t recruited to RU to be the guy. He happened to evolve into that role because teams focused on taking Cliff away. And the two of them finished with the same PPG.

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

Cam just went up against Xavier Johnson, scored 18 points, and led the blowout of Indiana . . .

This is a real fact that Hawk will argue isn’t really one 🤣

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

This. The teams they went to play a lot faster than RU.

If Hawk watched Paul’s game against San Diego State a few days ago he would know this but it ruins his narrative.

 

[goru7]

Hawk tries to look at the Big picture but often is just plain wrong and has a very hard time admitting it. Can Spenser was not our first option , which was Cliff , but it was hopeful that Cam would have more Wisconsin games in him. We hoped Cam was quick enough to shoot a 3 ever time but it turned out he wasn’t a catch and shoot 3 point shooter but pump fake , dribble , and then launch guy. Cam was extremely important because his potential to get hot , or hit a big shot late , gave us hope for a win against anyone , Purdue , Northwestern , Wisconsin . If he was on this team with Gavin we would have 2 shooters that we have never put on the floor at the same time for a long time since Shields and Douby. It would give opposing coaches nightmares.
Now Hawk’s take on Mag last year and trying to turn it into a discussion that in his opinion he was our 4th or 5th option on offense and therefore could not have be so impactful , was so wrong and played out in front of our eyes. Mag already had 9 points in the first half of Michigan State in the first half , on his way to a breakout. High teens or 20 point game . Mag and Caleb personally shut down most of what Michigan State wanted to do. We do not win that game without Paul’s heroics , his last impactful game , but we were 16-7 and likely anywhere from a 5 to 8-9 seed in the dance at the time. We fell off the Cliff and lost home games , 4, that did not happen , for the prior 4 years . His loss was massive not because some stupid opinion he was our 4th or 5th offensive option , but he was coming on big time offensively to go along with his defense and probably the best player possibly at the head of our tremendous press. The season was never the same but Hawk refuses to see that or admit he was wrong. My opinion is that it was a damn shame we lost Mag last year and deprived of seeing where our team was going from 16-7. Damn Shame !!!!!

 

[needmorecowbell]

Last year’s team did not have Mag in February after the MSU game
Next February Mag will be back, probably in full form by then.
Gavin has already shown signs of Paul’s passing ability, and has much higher ceiling as a scorer
There was no flow or chemistry to the team after Mags injury
Chemistry on this team is already showing signs of 2019-20 team

Gavin is never going to have Paul’s passing ability and Paul is never have Gavin’s offensive skills. When the current freshman and sophomore’s are seniors, they may be better players but losing 2 seniors (Pike planed to have on the team) you lose much more than their abilities. You lose the experience of playing down and the confidence to come back. You lose the experience of playing in every away arena, the experience of playing the current big ten players and playing in the post season. The coaches all want to get old and stay old for good reason. You can’t replace experience easily.

 

[Pils86]

We would definitely be better with both. Cam was tied for leading scorer, second in assists, second in steals, now significant contributor with UConn. Not debatable. Paul first in assists by far, second in steals and great size for guard. He could have been used situationally to help the team. Currently 8 pts, 5 reb and 6 assists per game with UW.

Last year's team started with both Paul and Caleb injured if I recall, if they are there I think we beat Temple. I think Caleb was injured for Miami, small chance the outcome would have been different but possible. I do believe Mulcahy also nursed an injury most of the year. 2 point loss to SHU, nonloss loss to OSU, backbreaker to Minn, mailed in OT loss to Hofstra. Mag injury. If we had a little more luck it would have been a great season.