We win either way!! I think last game sparks us for some big wins now
Terrence Shannon will likely play Sunday
- Thread starter Degaz-RU
- Start date
noStar-Ledger would run a front page story hammering RU if they even let a player be on the bench under same circumstances.
Doesn’t this also have to do with Title IX ? Whether that or a crime or both, it does seem that waiting for due process to play out would indeed cause irreparable harm.
He’d miss the rest of the season including the tournament which does have personal value, national exposure, NBA workouts and probably the draft. He would not be drafted
No ?
Innocent until proven guilty is a real thing.
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Illinois didn’t throw him in jail, they said he couldn’t play. Absolutely crazy that a judge can rule on how a player is disciplined. Is it not possible that he violated some sort of code of conduct policy that Illinois or Underwood finds unacceptable without evidence that is beyond a reasonable doubt.
This got in front of a judge so fast it’s ridiculous when there are far more crucial matters that take way longer.
The NBA argument is ridiculous.
and if you want to make an argument like that, irreparable harm has been done to his basketball prospects.
What about Quincy Guerier, is it possible that the return of Shannon is so distracting and takes away shooting opportunities that he might otherwise leverage to gain attention for the NBA?
Does Shannon’s pressence reduce Max William’s chances of cracking 2minutes a game and having the breakthrough he needs? Irreparable harm being done to Max Williams.
GTFO
This got in front of a judge so fast it’s ridiculous when there are far more crucial matters that take way longer.
The NBA argument is ridiculous.
and if you want to make an argument like that, irreparable harm has been done to his basketball prospects.
What about Quincy Guerier, is it possible that the return of Shannon is so distracting and takes away shooting opportunities that he might otherwise leverage to gain attention for the NBA?
Does Shannon’s pressence reduce Max William’s chances of cracking 2minutes a game and having the breakthrough he needs? Irreparable harm being done to Max Williams.
GTFO
Irreparable harm has been done to anyone who took the points before the line moved after the ruling.
The more controversy swirling the better RUTGERS shot to sneak out a win
Logic fail. Other players aren’t deprived of the opportunity to outplay him and take his PT. Nothing says Illinois must play him.
There is harm to Shannon.
It’s a bad look for the university to play him, but he should be entitled to due process.
Remember the Duke lacrosse case.
Truly unbelievable, as how many times has this happened to Rutgers in football and mens basketball. Players and coaches literally come back from the dead to play against us. First Harbo Michigan suspension reduced from 4 to 3 games so he can play us. Then he gets suspended 3 more games later.
Then, Michigan bball player gets suspended for the most random number of games ever, “6 away games” making him miraculously available just in time for RU game.
Now, Shannon destroys us, gets suspended so ILL can lose to putrid maryland and destroy their NET, drop their poll ranking, just to come back and destroy us again. Actually unbelievable at this point.
Then, Michigan bball player gets suspended for the most random number of games ever, “6 away games” making him miraculously available just in time for RU game.
Now, Shannon destroys us, gets suspended so ILL can lose to putrid maryland and destroy their NET, drop their poll ranking, just to come back and destroy us again. Actually unbelievable at this point.
Obviously an absurd, uninformed take because she just did.
the lawsuit alleged the suspension violated his due process rights causing harm. that makes a lot of sense.
Still, Illinois doesn’t have to play him.
I’ll dumb it down further so you can understand. Should a college be permitted to expel you following allegations that you cheated on an exam ? Of course not. You are entitled to due process spelled out in university policy. Shannon was disciplined without any criminal or Title IX due process steps.
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Lol idk if being sarcastic? I know how political guys are on both sides of the aisles. Real hall monitor types, politics is just here to appease all of the petty people that want everything and everyone to think the way they think. Biden, Trump all the same guy to me. But Trump has multiple allegations, they weren't criminal though lol they were civil. But it's all good because he's the only one that can save us from the illuminati lol
No but his presence can impact them.
Obviously my argument is ridiculous on purpose.
And so is his.
He has had 4.25 years to prove his potential. He is not devoid of an opportunity here. Guy will or won’t be in the NBA eventually a regardless of this suspension as long as he is proven not guilty.
I have a hard time seeing Illinois being able to play Shannon and take the hit from the media and a large segment of the public. 20+ years ago, I don't think this would have been issue and the legal process could have probably played out. Nowadays, things don't really work that way. You can look at the situations with Matt Araiza and Trevor Bauer. I don't believe either was charged, and they were in he said/she said situations.
I guess we will find out Sunday.
I guess we will find out Sunday.
I think you’re overstating things here.
The judge was presented with an application for a preliminary injunction, in which Shannon’s lawyers argued that there is a likelihood of success in the merits of a claim of denial of due process, plus the danger of irreparable harm. Shannon was suspended BY A STATE ENTITY without any due process or finding of guilt — but rather solely based on an accusation — and the judge found that being deprived of an entire season of games in his final year of eligibility created irreparable harm since he can’t get back his senior year and is threatened with loss of NIL and plummeting draft prospects.
Those are two very reasonable legal findings, and it’s not “activism,” but rather simply the application of facts to law that judges perform every day of the week.
We may think the decision is stupid or outrageous since it allows an accused sexual assaulter back on the court (just in time for the Rutgers game LOL), but it actually SOUNDS like a reasonable decision since Shannon was merely “accused” and NOT found guilty. Is it fair to suspend the guy without any finding of guilt, based solely on an accusation?
Now, the **optics** of the University of Illinois and Brad Underwood allowing Shannon to play in the face of a female victim accusing him of fondling her, that’s a different issue. But the legal process is not about optics, it’s about legal rights, and the court has held that Shannon could not be suspended without additional due process of law.
I don’t see this as a judge being “activist” but rather simply performing his/her job as a legal arbiter of a claim presented in court.
In theory, for what benefits RU, this is a good thing.
A) You'd always want to have a game with an opponent having a full roster. This way, the results are accounted for without any doubts or question marks.
B) Playing at Illinois in this scenario, reduces any expectations on RU. If the game was at RU and Illinois had to travel here with Shannon, it would be the Illinois vs the world mindset.....any little thing Shannon did well during the game, would be considered an energy boost to a team in the road.......with the game at Illinois, it places all of the focus on what Illinois does or doesn't do.....how many minutes does he play in the 1st half or 2nd half?? Underwood has to answer 99 questions now about a player who hasn't played in a couple of weeks, instead of doing or talking about other things with his roster.
C) if Purdue arrives in a week and somehow Zach Edey didn't play, I would be disappointed....no one wants to defeat a ranked team, with an asterisk attached to it, even a Top 5 or potentially #1 Purdue. Same concept applies here, Shannon is clearly a B1G player of the Year candidate in any other season that doesn't have this version if Zach Edey in the conference......if I am RU, I want a 2nd shot at Illinois, with a full roster.
In terms of matching up, RU just has to play and defend the Illinois offense and do all of the same things they've been improving upon. You can't expect to get breaks to fluff up the resume or season results, you play through them, good or bad. There's enough excuse making or phantom reasons why something did or didn't happen and it's not a RU Screw thing.
This is an Illinois problem anyway and RU gets to benefit from it. Any results surrounding the Illinois program has a cloud of uncertainty hanging over it. Will it eventually become a big enough distraction later in the season?? Illinois apparently knew about this since the incident involving Shannon way back in September. Let them deal with it and let's play Illinois at full strength, Michigan with Dug McDaniel on the court etc.....
RU fans have to stop looking for the easy path or way around things.....it's better off for RU to face everyone at full-speed.
A) You'd always want to have a game with an opponent having a full roster. This way, the results are accounted for without any doubts or question marks.
B) Playing at Illinois in this scenario, reduces any expectations on RU. If the game was at RU and Illinois had to travel here with Shannon, it would be the Illinois vs the world mindset.....any little thing Shannon did well during the game, would be considered an energy boost to a team in the road.......with the game at Illinois, it places all of the focus on what Illinois does or doesn't do.....how many minutes does he play in the 1st half or 2nd half?? Underwood has to answer 99 questions now about a player who hasn't played in a couple of weeks, instead of doing or talking about other things with his roster.
C) if Purdue arrives in a week and somehow Zach Edey didn't play, I would be disappointed....no one wants to defeat a ranked team, with an asterisk attached to it, even a Top 5 or potentially #1 Purdue. Same concept applies here, Shannon is clearly a B1G player of the Year candidate in any other season that doesn't have this version if Zach Edey in the conference......if I am RU, I want a 2nd shot at Illinois, with a full roster.
In terms of matching up, RU just has to play and defend the Illinois offense and do all of the same things they've been improving upon. You can't expect to get breaks to fluff up the resume or season results, you play through them, good or bad. There's enough excuse making or phantom reasons why something did or didn't happen and it's not a RU Screw thing.
This is an Illinois problem anyway and RU gets to benefit from it. Any results surrounding the Illinois program has a cloud of uncertainty hanging over it. Will it eventually become a big enough distraction later in the season?? Illinois apparently knew about this since the incident involving Shannon way back in September. Let them deal with it and let's play Illinois at full strength, Michigan with Dug McDaniel on the court etc.....
RU fans have to stop looking for the easy path or way around things.....it's better off for RU to face everyone at full-speed.
Schools (and companies) shouldn't be interfering with the legal process as a default.
Once legal process is finalized, then get involved.
If someone is accussed or involved with active investigation: no suspension
If someone is charged with a crime: no suspension.
If someone is convicted: suspended
The whole point of the legal process is presumed innocent until proven guilty by a court of law.
This is a college athletic team - there isn't some severe reputational damage that is going to occur.
"But public perception!!" is nonsense that entities use as cover for poor decisions.
Public perception isn't nearly as impactful or long lasting as people think.
I get that this charge is particularly heinous, but there shouldn't be an subjectively.
This is litetally what everyone complains about with the NCAA - subjectively based decisions.
Now - if a school wanted a default "charged with crime - suspended" then stick to that.
I would be against that policy though.
Once legal process is finalized, then get involved.
If someone is accussed or involved with active investigation: no suspension
If someone is charged with a crime: no suspension.
If someone is convicted: suspended
The whole point of the legal process is presumed innocent until proven guilty by a court of law.
This is a college athletic team - there isn't some severe reputational damage that is going to occur.
"But public perception!!" is nonsense that entities use as cover for poor decisions.
Public perception isn't nearly as impactful or long lasting as people think.
I get that this charge is particularly heinous, but there shouldn't be an subjectively.
This is litetally what everyone complains about with the NCAA - subjectively based decisions.
Now - if a school wanted a default "charged with crime - suspended" then stick to that.
I would be against that policy though.
If you are of the mind that we lose regardless, then maybe this is a good thing. If he comes in and plays distracted and misses all of his shots, it helps us. #WishfulThinking
I’ll never understand the losing mindset before games are even played. We aren’t DePaul lol
A) Underwood wants to play him
B) The ruling found the UI policy was causing TSJ irreparable harm by not allowing him to play via the suspension and lack of due process. Harming his current (NIL) and future (NBA) earnings. By not playing him and essentially "suspending" him indirectly would go directly against that ruling. Ain't gonna happen.
Though I think it is wrong to play him while he awaits his day in court . My take is the judge made the correct choice and anyone at Rutgers would not want a son , daughter who is accused be charged as guilty prior to proving the accusation. At this juncture he is innocent … he has not been convicted. I however think Illinois is making a bigger mistake playing him today regardless . The state of Illinois is quite different in its decision making process. We have a player stuck in limbo for betting ( on his team ?) and he still hasn’t been freed by the corrupt NCAA.
Painter is gonna play him, maybe not as a starter, but he will see significant minutes esp if needed. It’s all about the wins.
I don’t think Matt Painter has a say really
Sh!t SL will probably run a story that if it wasn’t forRutgers, Shannon wouldn’t have played tomorrow.
Question: What is title IX due process? I thought title IX was where there had to be equal scholarships for men and women.
All that happened is the Judge ruled Shannon is eligible for basketball practice and competition.
Playing time wasn't involved.
This injunction is over Shannon's rights to have the Office of Student Conflict Resolution Policy for students to have been involved in which the School's administration failed to do.
Making sure someone is given all the rights they are entitled to is the type of activism we all should want for ourselves .
Hell a candidate is running for president and some feel he has the right to run for that office despite being accused of a crime , four federal charges and one state indicted him of 13 counts of a crime he's accused of there.
That candidate just recently was found liable for sexually abuse in a civil case against him
Over the years at least 18 women have accused a GOP Presidential candidate of varying inappropriate behavior, including allegations of sexual harassment or sexual assault.
Also a civil suit against that candidate alleging he raped a 13-year-old girl was dismissed in California in May 2016, refiled in New York in June 2016, and dropped again in November 2016..
So if that candidate deserves his right to run protected by the courts, Shannon should be allotted the same type of treatment and if one or both is proven guilty of what they are accused of, hopefully they will be given the harshest penalty the law allows
Playing time wasn't involved.
This injunction is over Shannon's rights to have the Office of Student Conflict Resolution Policy for students to have been involved in which the School's administration failed to do.
Making sure someone is given all the rights they are entitled to is the type of activism we all should want for ourselves .
Hell a candidate is running for president and some feel he has the right to run for that office despite being accused of a crime , four federal charges and one state indicted him of 13 counts of a crime he's accused of there.
That candidate just recently was found liable for sexually abuse in a civil case against him
Over the years at least 18 women have accused a GOP Presidential candidate of varying inappropriate behavior, including allegations of sexual harassment or sexual assault.
Also a civil suit against that candidate alleging he raped a 13-year-old girl was dismissed in California in May 2016, refiled in New York in June 2016, and dropped again in November 2016..
So if that candidate deserves his right to run protected by the courts, Shannon should be allotted the same type of treatment and if one or both is proven guilty of what they are accused of, hopefully they will be given the harshest penalty the law allows
