The "Arc" is the key...

[Drsupremo]

Anyone who watches RU games knows, that with the exception of Geo Baker, Akwasi Yeboah and Montez Mathis (recently), the balance of the regular rotation guys shoot a "flat" outside, particularly Harper, Young and Johnson( from the foul line). Shooting a "flat" outside shot dramatically reduces the chances that the shot will go in. Here is a blog article that https://www.boulderbullsbasketball....3/Basketball-Shooting-Why-is-Arc-so-Important that shows you the mathematical reason why.

Against the Illini, Harper increased the "arc" of his shot and the results were dramatic. It really is as simple as that. In many of his recent games, prior to the Illini game, Harper was shooting line drives -- no wonder he was 3 for 18!

If you have any doubt, look at the progress made by Mathis since the start of the BIG schedule. He has increased the arc of his 3 point shot and is % has skyrocketed. Young must follow suit -- he is passing up wide open 3s because he's lost his confidence.

It boils down to muscle memory, hand-eye coordination and releasing the ball with your finger tips.

Against the Illini we shot 7/15 from 3 point land. If we make 7 3 pointers a game, we can beat anyone -- away or home.

Shoot higher!!!!!

 

[mugrat86]

I agree 1000% with your premise. I actually wrote a post on pay forum indicating the exact thing about Harper against Illinois. I also agree that Mathis' arc has improved. IMO, Yeboah has best stroke on the team. Too bad he is a senior

 

[Scarlet Shack]

More arc is about more legs in the shot....something you will see a lot more of with one more year of S&C

 

[RU848789]

More arc is about more legs in the shot....something you will see a lot more of with one more year of S&C

Sorry, but that's largely incorrect from a pure physics perspective. Legs have very little to do with the arc of a shot - legs are mostly important to provide enough height on the release point to reduce the probability of the shot being blocked, although release point is far more impacted by the position of the arms and especially the elbow above the head (and not in front of the head), whereas legs are important for body/shot rhythm, but not velocity/arc.

People can shoot perfectly arc-ed shots from a standstill, as, by far, the most important part of the shot is the combination of the arms and the rotation of the elbow and, most importantly, the rotation of the wrist. Also, look at it this way - most great shooters release the ball from their highest point in the jump (to prevent it being blocked) and at the highest point in one's jump, there's zero body velocity in the upward motion, meaning just about all of the shot velocity is generated by the arms/wrist and not the legs.

With regard to the optimal arc of about 45 degrees and the optimal shot depth of a few inches deeper than the actual center of the cylinder (why great shooters have more shots that hit the back of the rim and go down than just swish), the link does a very nice job of explaining all that.

https://winninghoops.com/article/building-the-perfect-arc/

 

[Scangg]

Sorry, but that's largely incorrect from a pure physics perspective. Legs have very little to do with the arc of a shot - legs are mostly important to provide enough height on the release point to reduce the probability of the shot being blocked, although release point is far more impacted by the position of the arms and especially the elbow above the head (and not in front of the head), whereas legs are important for body/shot rhythm, but not velocity/arc.

People can shoot perfectly arc-ed shots from a standstill, as, by far, the most important part of the shot is the combination of the arms and the rotation of the elbow and, most importantly, the rotation of the wrist. Also, look at it this way - most great shooters release the ball from their highest point in the jump (to prevent it being blocked) and at the highest point in one's jump, there's zero body velocity in the upward motion, meaning just about all of the shot velocity is generated by the arms/wrist and not the legs.

With regard to the optimal arc of about 45 degrees and the optimal shot depth of a few inches deeper than the actual center of the cylinder (why great shooters have more shots that hit the back of the rim and go down than just swish), the link does a very nice job of explaining all that.

https://winninghoops.com/article/building-the-perfect-arc/

Lol, this is one of the worst analysis of a shot I've ever seen. No legs all arms. Wow

 

[RU848789]

Lol, this is one of the worst analysis of a shot I've ever seen. No legs all arms. Wow

You obviously can't read. At the top of the jump, when the ball is released by most, the body's upward velocity is essentially zero (as it's actually about to start moving towards the ground), so the legs are not going to generate any of the arc or velocity of the shot. However, some jump shooters (like Steph Curry) release the ball nearly 0.5 seconds before reaching the apex of the jump, so there is some small velocity imparted to the ball by the jump, but the vast majority of the velocity (which is what we're talking about here - the arc is just a function of release point/trajectory at release, not velocity) comes from the rotational movements and velocity generated by the shoulder, elbow and wrist, working in unison. Simple physics my friend. By far, the most important part of the jumping is to attain a higher release point to prevent the shot being blocked (and it brings the release point a foot or two closer to the target and every little bit helps). If legs were so important, how come nobody makes jump shot free throws?

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

Here is what I posted in one of the other 5 Ron Harper threads. Maybe he should shoot all of his shots over a 7 footer to make sure he gets it up in the air with arc.


When he struggles, he rushes and his shot is flat. No arc, a line drive almost. When, he takes his time, his shot looks like this......

 

[winfield102]

I like McConnell's shot.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

You can set up two guys at a spot taking passes and shooting set shots while they warm up. One guy will have perfect arc shot after shot. The other guy's shot could be flat. And, legs have nothing to do with those shots except for a slight bend.

 

[Polos13]

Great OP.

 

[RU-ROCS]

Arc is definitely a key attribute to successful 3-point shot. But, to start the season Yeboah's shot was also very flat. His arc has improved, although he seemed to be making 3's a decent clip early even with little arc. Maybe he's the exception to the rule.

 

[NickRU714]

Alot of you are missing the "legs effect arc" argument.

It's not about legs changing your shot arc.
Its about the consistency of your shot degrading as legs get tired.

You have a standard shot you are used to (muscle memory).
As your legs get tired before your arms, you start jumping a little less higher.
But you keep the same shot arc (perfect or flat doesn't matter).

So if you shoot the same shot but from a little lower release point, you start hitting the front of the rim.

Two fixes: force yourself to jump or change your shot.

Its much easier to force yourself to jump than mess with your shot.

 

[NickRU714]

Arc itself is related to consistently and allowing a greater margin of error.

You can have a great flat 3pt shot.
However, as your shot degrades (legs tired, arms tired, off balance) the margin of error goes down.

You have to adjust your shot far greater with a flatter shot to continue making baskets.

 

[mugrat86]

Arc is definitely a key attribute to successful 3-point shot. But, to start the season Yeboah's shot was also very flat. His arc has improved, although he seemed to be making 3's a decent clip early even with little arc. Maybe he's the exception to the rule.

i honestly don’t see any difference between Yeboah’s shot now and then. I will say his spin is the most perfect on the team. Many of the other guys shoot with ball in palms more than fingers thus more inconsistency. An example of a guy with poor spin is the 6’10” guard from last year (name escapes me)

 

[rubaseball78]

Alot of you are missing the "legs effect arc" argument.

It's not about legs changing your shot arc.
Its about the consistency of your shot degrading as legs get tired.

You have a standard shot you are used to (muscle memory).
As your legs get tired before your arms, you start jumping a little less higher.
But you keep the same shot arc (perfect or flat doesn't matter).

So if you shoot the same shot but from a little lower release point, you start hitting the front of the rim.

Two fixes: force yourself to jump or change your shot.

Its much easier to force yourself to jump than mess with your shot.

Yes, tired legs lead to mechanics falling apart.

 

[RU848789]

Alot of you are missing the "legs effect arc" argument.

It's not about legs changing your shot arc.
Its about the consistency of your shot degrading as legs get tired.

You have a standard shot you are used to (muscle memory).
As your legs get tired before your arms, you start jumping a little less higher.
But you keep the same shot arc (perfect or flat doesn't matter).

So if you shoot the same shot but from a little lower release point, you start hitting the front of the rim.

Two fixes: force yourself to jump or change your shot.

Its much easier to force yourself to jump than mess with your shot.

That's why I'd like us to go back to the set shot, lol. Good post on legs affecting release point which can lead to shot inconsistency.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Sorry, but that's largely incorrect from a pure physics perspective. Legs have very little to do with the arc of a shot - legs are mostly important to provide enough height on the release point to reduce the probability of the shot being blocked, although release point is far more impacted by the position of the arms and especially the elbow above the head (and not in front of the head), whereas legs are important for body/shot rhythm, but not velocity/arc.

People can shoot perfectly arc-ed shots from a standstill, as, by far, the most important part of the shot is the combination of the arms and the rotation of the elbow and, most importantly, the rotation of the wrist. Also, look at it this way - most great shooters release the ball from their highest point in the jump (to prevent it being blocked) and at the highest point in one's jump, there's zero body velocity in the upward motion, meaning just about all of the shot velocity is generated by the arms/wrist and not the legs.

With regard to the optimal arc of about 45 degrees and the optimal shot depth of a few inches deeper than the actual center of the cylinder (why great shooters have more shots that hit the back of the rim and go down than just swish), the link does a very nice job of explaining all that.

https://winninghoops.com/article/building-the-perfect-arc/

Not going to argue ...but I coach a LOT of youth basketball that keeps me away from too many games at the RAC ...and I’m pretty good at it.

I’ll tell you that shooting form with the proper arc starts with strong legs because of balance, from balance From proper legs spacing happens

Proper balance leads to your upper body following through straight...and a properly timed release

I won’t argue any further than that ...other than my kids are CONSISTENTLY Amazed how I can regularly call makes from only watching the proper form without ever looking at the ball going in the hoop.....

 

[RU848789]

Not going to argue ...but I coach a LOT of youth basketball that keeps me away from too many games at the RAC ...and I’m pretty good at it.

I’ll tell you that shooting form with the proper arc starts with strong legs because of balance, from balance From proper legs spacing happens

Proper balance leads to your upper body following through straight...and a properly timed release

I won’t argue any further than that ...other than my kids are CONSISTENTLY Amazed how I can regularly call makes from only watching the proper form without ever looking at the ball going in the hoop.....

My guess is we're not far apart on this at all. I took your initial post to mean you thought the legs were important to generating the velocity needed for long jump shots (they're not) and maybe I misinterpreted. I absolutely 100% agree that shooters need to train their bodies, through repetition, to try to repeat the exact same sequence of body mechanical events in order to produce shots with consistent arc, velocity, spin, angle, depth at the cylinder, etc, and in a jump shot, the legs are certainly part of that cascade of events.

To me it's kind of like a golf swing, where muscle memory is so important to achieve that same exact sequence every time or else something will be off slightly at release, which gets magnified as the ball travels further and further, until the shot is missed. And doing that all repeatedly, with release at or near the top of one's jump, in order to avoid the shot being blocked, is a very difficult thing to do well, as we see all the time. Variability in the sequence of events for a shot kills consistency and makes for a bad shooter.