The Gap

[bac2therac]

Is closing. Sure RU only has two conference wins but on paper it also has less talent than the rest of the league. OSU has some so called big time recruits on the team yet RU was able to comeback from 11 down twice in the game and had the game tied with about a minute left, that even with some foul trouble. RU was dominating for large stretches of the 2nd and was the aggressor really shutting down OSU in the 2nd half. This is such a huge leap from what we saw our previous two years. RU went toe to toe with a decent Nebraska team and came out winners, They had the #7 team in the country on the ropes shutting them down for 38 minutes before giving way, they dominated a talented PSU and won on the road, today they came up short again on the road against a solid OSU team who just came off a road victory over Michigan. RU is really now thisclose to the same grouping of PSU, OSU, Nebby, Ill....I think where the difference lies is that these teams have enough talent to throw scares or beat upper tier Big 10 schools while I think the talent gap is preventing RU from doing the same.

It was always going to be tough in measuring progress looking at wins and losses. RU can still pick up wins down the stretch but even if they do not this season has been pretty much beyond everyone's expectations. Pikiell can coach, we say it almost after every game (except for Iowa). Cannot ask from more from him to have his team in a position to win a game late. His adjustments in the 2nd half and trust in certain players to take on rolls is helping this team gain confidence. RU outrebounded OSU 26-17 in the 2nd half. RU got great minutes from Doorson and Thiam, two guys that have not been a factor for much of the year. RU hung in there even with Sanders fouling out. That shows some toughness that I bet Pikiell is looking for.

I am not rehashing the whole ref stuff from the game thread, I am always going to take the position that by and large the refs do not determine the outcome and you have to adjust to how plays may be called. The Corey play was certainly iffy either way IMO, could it have been called a block? perhaps but Corey has to play smarter with 4 fouls...and his previous foul was silly on a three pointer. Again you cannot count on the refs to give you the game, if you are going to rely on the refs to win you the game, you will always lose...and RU had the game tied at 62 with a minute to go so despite all that had a shot to win. Free throws continue to be a big issue.....10-18..it is what it is, I do not think its changing but no one knows how the game plays out if they make more.

So back home for Minnesota, a winnable against a team that RU embarrassed last year albeit that Minny team was shorthanded. All the pressure is on Minnesota for this game as it is a must win for their NCAA hopes. A real good chance to get that game if RU works hard like they did today, RU has not played well at the RAC so hopefully its a game that the fans can get into and get rewarded with a win

 

[RU MAN]

We are one top shooter away from being 6-6 in league play thus far instead of 2-10.

 

[mikefla]

Doorson ............3-4 6pts 6 rebs tonight...his best game ever,,,:smiley::smiley:
-offset CJs lackluster 4pts 2 REBs.....(7ft tall & 2 REBs????)
-Nigel Johnson 2pts,,,:(
-Laurent 2pts,,,,,he is an Orlando guy but geez?:(

Williams , Sanders, Freeman, Thiam all played well on both ends of the floor:boxing:

great D overall....and I see players developing & stepping up

Ohio St at home.,,,this isnt a game I expected to win,,,yet we WERE IN IT to the end

Coach Pike recruits 2 scrappers & a point guard & we are IN IT next year !!!!!!!!!!

 

[ColonelRutgers]

Obviously he made some mistakes and his release needs work but it is encouraging to see Thiam beginning to contribute. He sort of disappeared for a while after beginning the season as a starter. Definitely has upside so hopefully with a full season under his belt and an off season work on his body and shot we'll see a big improvement next year.

 

[ScarletKid2008]

The biggest thing for me is that this year's team is fun to watch! The last two seasons were god awful unwatchable "basketball".

We need another playmaker / scorer out there. Losing Gettys is going to hurt . Not becuse he's all B1G but because what we have behind him is troubling. Doorson cant play more than 5min straight right now without getting gassed

 

[RUJMM78]

We are one top shooter away from being 6-6 in league play thus far instead of 2-10.

The collective inability to make foul shots is as important as having a go to shooter.Its truly amazing that Rutgers has played so many close games with a squad full of non shooters.The coaching staff has done a magnificent job in keeping the team in games where the opponent clearly has the better talent.

 

[bac2therac]

We are one top shooter away from being 6-6 in league play thus far instead of 2-10.

we will need a scorer and a big guy next year to flirt with 500...easier said then done but who knows? Waters pulled Jerome Coleman out of nowhere, we can catch lighting in a bottle again

 

[RUinSC]

we will need a scorer and a big guy next year to flirt with 500...easier said then done but who knows? Waters pulled Jerome Coleman out of nowhere, we can catch lighting in a bottle again

We are already flirting with .500, BAC. We only lose Gettys next year.
Next year- over .500
Two years NCAA - if Sanders stays.

 

[Upstream]

The collective inability to make foul shots is as important as having a go to shooter.Its truly amazing that Rutgers has played so many close games with a squad full of non shooters.The coaching staff has done a magnificent job in keeping the team in games where the opponent clearly has the better talent.

Other issues can be explained by the talent gap. The inability to hit free throws is inexplicable.

 

[bac2therac]

We are already flirting with .500, BAC. We only lose Gettys next year.
Next year- over .500
Two years NCAA - if Sanders stays.

in league no? we arent close to be 500 in league and we will not be 500 in league next year or close either......6-12? yes that could happen but we need that reclassification next year because Gettys will be a big loss

NCAA in year 3? Strongly disagree....what recruits are you basing this on...because we will need two power forward and two guards who havent been recruited yet

 

[RUinSC]

in league no? we arent close to be 500 in league and we will not be 500 in league next year or close either......6-12? yes that could happen but we need that reclassification next year because Gettys will be a big loss

NCAA in year 3? Strongly disagree....what recruits are you basing this on...because we will need two power forward and two guards who havent been recruited yet

At this point I'm not counting us out of anything. What Pike has accomplished this year has been nothing short of a miracle. Imagine with another year of the weight room and coaching will do...

 

[mrslate]

For FIG and the others who love to criticize Sanders, the last two minutes are what the team will look like if he leaves this year: not a single player capable of creating his own shot, and no chance of winning a close game.

 

[goru7]

Clearly, there is very little gap something you thought was impossible to close this year and you were wrong again. The whole team comes back next year along with a shooter in Geo, and hopefully Doucore can reclassify and give us a big guy that can consistently score next year to replace CJ. We are a flawed offensive team, not a good shooting team, not a good free throw shooting team, make too many unforced turnovers but still we are competing in every game ( except Iowa) something all of us long time season ticket holders and fans were hopeful we would see again. We have seen it in 1 year. Credit to Coach and his staff.

A number of observations from tonight:
1) We cut down on turnovers with only 11 tonite, one on Corey's charge and one on that last play by Nigel. We had 7 at the half and only 2 for 16 minutes of the second half that lead to better possessions and scoring.
2) Losing Corey was a killer but you have to love how we tied it at 62 without him down the stretch.
3) 2 huge killer plays that doomed us , Corey's foul on Williams that I thought was a bail out and he made three and Williams four point play on Mike . Corey's foul was his 4th and I truly believe we win the game if he doesn't foul out on that questionable 5th foul .
4) once again we only hit 4 three pointers (4-17) and I have been saying if we make 6 a game despite our turnover and foul shooting we would win more games. Mike and Corey were 1-5 and 1-4 . Issa missed a critical one that would have given us our first lead when Corey hit him in the corner all alone and MIKE if he set his feet on a couple might have hit 1 more that would have given us the win. Ohio State was only 5-12 including that prayer by Jackson with the clock at 1.
5) At some point we have to accept we are a bad foul shooting team and although I like most of the board can lament we were 10-18 including a couple of the front ends of one and one , we have to accept it and overcome it. We can overcome if we hit 6 threes a game or cut down on our turnovers to about 10 agame. We cut the turnovers this game , we hit 7 threes last game and won. If we get both to happen we will be in every game down the stretch.
6) The reffing and the calls are not something I want to harp on because calls are missed in some games but tonight the 3 blatant travels on Tate hurt badly. They are not debatable. The first one cost us as Tate hit the layup , the one with 8 seconds left in the half would have given us the ball under on own basket with a chance to cut the lead from 6 to 4 or 3 and I just blanked on the third one but was obvious and our bench was going nuts. There were 2 more calls missed when Deshawn was under the hoop and Tate pushed him directly in the back and when Shaquille before he got blocked by Thompson, he was hit when he got the rebound on the arm. We almost overcame all of it.
7) Coach going back to Issa in the starting lineup, something I advocated 4 games ago because we were getting nothing out of Eugene and we desperately need 3 point shooters is starting to pay dividends..He was also very aggressive defensively and used his length for some steals. We need him down the stretch.
8) Any one calling out Nigel tonight is blind. Like Lyle on Ohio State both guys played hurt were shells of themselves only scoring 2 a piece. Nigel could not push off on his legs which was obvious so anyone wondering what happened to him the last few games, he was hurt open your eyes.
9) Shaquille gave us valuable minutes and points tonite especially since CJ did not have one of his better efforts, which hopefully gets his confidence up. I was surprised Coach did not put him back in the last few minutes .
10) We are not that far away, a more consistent 3point shooter, more offensive big man finisher and we will win. Maybe Mike and Issa becomes that and Geo helps. Maybe Deshawn and Shaquille develop a little more and maybe Doucore reclassifies.
11) I am not ready to rule us out of any game with 6 to go plus we will be a pain in the ass for a few teams in the conference tourney. We are a competitive Big 10 team. Let that sink in for a minute. !!

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

Minnesota is awfully explosive.....we have our hands full on Saturday afternoon....

 

[bac2therac]

Clearly, there is very little gap something you thought was impossible to close this year and you were wrong again. The whole team comes back next year along with a shooter in Geo, and hopefully Doucore can reclassify and give us a big guy that can consistently score next year to replace CJ. We are a flawed offensive team, not a good shooting team, not a good free throw shooting team, make too many unforced turnovers but still we are competing in every game ( except Iowa) something all of us long time season ticket holders and fans were hopeful we would see again. We have seen it in 1 year. Credit to Coach and his staff.

A number of observations from tonight:
1) We cut down on turnovers with only 11 tonite, one on Corey's charge and one on that last play by Nigel. We had 7 at the half and only 2 for 16 minutes of the second half that lead to better possessions and scoring.
2) Losing Corey was a killer but you have to love how we tied it at 62 without him down the stretch.
3) 2 huge killer plays that doomed us , Corey's foul on Williams that I thought was a bail out and he made three and Williams four point play on Mike . Corey's foul was his 4th and I truly believe we win the game if he doesn't foul out on that questionable 5th foul .
4) once again we only hit 4 three pointers (4-17) and I have been saying if we make 6 a game despite our turnover and foul shooting we would win more games. Mike and Corey were 1-5 and 1-4 . Issa missed a critical one that would have given us our first lead when Corey hit him in the corner all alone and MIKE if he set his feet on a couple might have hit 1 more that would have given us the win. Ohio State was only 5-12 including that prayer by Jackson with the clock at 1.
5) At some point we have to accept we are a bad foul shooting team and although I like most of the board can lament we were 10-18 including a couple of the front ends of one and one , we have to accept it and overcome it. We can overcome if we hit 6 threes a game or cut down on our turnovers to about 10 agame. We cut the turnovers this game , we hit 7 threes last game and won. If we get both to happen we will be in every game down the stretch.
6) The reffing and the calls are not something I want to harp on because calls are missed in some games but tonight the 3 blatant travels on Tate hurt badly. They are not debatable. The first one cost us as Tate hit the layup , the one with 8 seconds left in the half would have given us the ball under on own basket with a chance to cut the lead from 6 to 4 or 3 and I just blanked on the third one but was obvious and our bench was going nuts. There were 2 more calls missed when Deshawn was under the hoop and Tate pushed him directly in the back and when Shaquille before he got blocked by Thompson, he was hit when he got the rebound on the arm. We almost overcame all of it.
7) Coach going back to Issa in the starting lineup, something I advocated 4 games ago because we were getting nothing out of Eugene and we desperately need 3 point shooters is starting to pay dividends..He was also very aggressive defensively and used his length for some steals. We need him down the stretch.
8) Any one calling out Nigel tonight is blind. Like Lyle on Ohio State both guys played hurt were shells of themselves only scoring 2 a piece. Nigel could not push off on his legs which was obvious so anyone wondering what happened to him the last few games, he was hurt open your eyes.
9) Shaquille gave us valuable minutes and points tonite especially since CJ did not have one of his better efforts, which hopefully gets his confidence up. I was surprised Coach did not put him back in the last few minutes .
10) We are not that far away, a more consistent 3point shooter, more offensive big man finisher and we will win. Maybe Mike and Issa becomes that and Geo helps. Maybe Deshawn and Shaquille develop a little more and maybe Doucore reclassifies.
11) I am not ready to rule us out of any game with 6 to go plus we will be a pain in the ass for a few teams in the conference tourney. We are a competitive Big 10 team. Let that sink in for a minute. !!

closing the gap is the first step...my biggest beef with you concerned wins, which they still are not doing...you said they were winning 6-8, I said no...3-5...and that is where will likely sit hopefully so tell me how that is wrong....team had to learn to win which they are still doing and having trouble with, you just assumed 6 or more wins

 

[RUinFla]

Was this Issa's first game in double figures? That has to be encouraging. Sanders should explore the pro option once again this summer, and be told what he needs to do to have a shot. There are tons of guards world-wide looking to play pro ball in Europe or Asia--if he were much bigger, would be worried.
TL

 

[goru7]

closing the gap is the first step...my biggest beef with you concerned wins, which they still are not doing...you said they were winning 6-8, I said no...3-5...and that is where will likely sit hopefully so tell me how that is wrong....team had to learn to win which they are still doing and having trouble with, you just assumed 6 or more wins

Yeah you knew they were going to shoot foul shots at an all time low shooting percentages including our guards . You knew that we would hit only 1 or 2 three pointers a game but still have a chance to win. You knew they couldn't compete because the players coming back or were hurt last year were no good. If you cannot see that we should have more than 2 wins with still 6 to play having played 6 road games already in the conference then you are not being honest. Although I am not giving up hope yet, my prediction of being a lot better compared to your prediction that we would not be competitive is proving true every game .

 

[Groz]

Watching Minnesota tonight, they have some really good players. Mason, the point guard and Murphy(had 25 points and 19 rebounds) are really terrific players.

As Hawk said, we will really have our hands full Saturday and will need to shoot well to win.

Best of Luck,
Groz

 

[bac2therac]

Yeah you knew they were going to shoot foul shots at an all time low shooting percentages including our guards . You knew that we would hit only 1 or 2 three pointers a game but still have a chance to win. You knew they couldn't compete because the players coming back or were hurt last year were no good. If you cannot see that we should have more than 2 wins with still 6 to play having played 6 road games already in the conference then you are not being honest. Although I am not giving up hope yet, my prediction of being a lot better compared to your prediction that we would not be competitive is proving true every game .

huh? the record is what it is...this team loses the way that it does because it is only capable of so much. Pike is maxing everything out of this team. It does not have the overall talent. It is the least talented group in the Big 10. I never said RU wouldnt be competitive whatever that means since records are not based on competitiveness...my prediction was 4-14 preseason, do I have to go back and get it, after the promising non conference start I thought perhaps they could win 5 or 6 but after seeing them the first 5 games I said my initial 4 and possbly even 3 was right. I do not know why I have to get into a pissing match with you and you have to make snarky remarks. I predicted 4 conference wins this year. You predicted 6-8. Right now we have a grand total of 2.

 

[goru7]

huh? the record is what it is...this team loses the way that it does because it is only capable of so much. Pike is maxing everything out of this team. It does not have the overall talent. It is the least talented group in the Big 10. I never said RU wouldnt be competitive whatever that means since records are not based on competitiveness...my prediction was 4-14 preseason, do I have to go back and get it, after the promising non conference start I thought perhaps they could win 5 or 6 but after seeing them the first 5 games I said my initial 4 and possbly even 3 was right. I do not know why I have to get into a pissing match with you and you have to make snarky remarks. I predicted 4 conference wins this year. You predicted 6-8. Right now we have a grand total of 2.

Missing foul shots has little to do with talent. Corey , Nigel and Mike should be 75% foul shooters and Mike even higher based on last year. Corey is at 63% , Nigel is 68% and Mike 72%. Do you not think Coach was expecting a little better foul shooting team? It might have cost us a few games, no?
Do you listen to every announcer on the Big 10 network and every coach say great things about us despite our being a 2 win team ? Yeah we need more talent , that is obvious but we can and we will win more games .

 

[MGSA99]

We will finish last in the league again, but it will be the best ever last place team we have had.

 

[goru7]

closing the gap is the first step...my biggest beef with you concerned wins, which they still are not doing...you said they were winning 6-8, I said no...3-5...and that is where will likely sit hopefully so tell me how that is wrong....team had to learn to win which they are still doing and having trouble with, you just assumed 6 or more wins

I guess we have to pull up the threads. I clearly said if we make 6 threes a game , we will win 6-8 games in conference. We have done that 2 times in 12 games and won one of them. You might have said 3-4 but clearly after the early start , you also said we might not win a game or maybe 1-2, then changed from game to game. You are consistently more negative than positive and frankly after the last 10 years and probably the last 25 , I can understand your skepticism. But Bac, it is not just effort and defense and great coaching but this team has heart, they never give up , a trait very few Rutgers teams have ever had .

 

[bac2therac]

Missing foul shots has little to do with talent. Corey , Nigel and Mike should be 75% foul shooters and Mike even higher based on last year. Corey is at 63% , Nigel is 68% and Mike 72%. Do you not think Coach was expecting a little better foul shooting team? It might have cost us a few games, no?
Do you listen to every announcer on the Big 10 network and every coach say great things about us despite our being a 2 win team ? Yeah we need more talent , that is obvious but we can and we will win more games .

the foul shooting is not going to change, it is what it is, you cannot play what ifs, every team would be better with better foul shooting, Yes the record is what it is, RU is tough for teams to play because some of these teams are not giving full effort but RU is and teams that give full effort are very hard to shake.

 

[bac2therac]

I guess we have to pull up the threads. I clearly said if we make 6 threes a game , we will win 6-8 games in conference. We have done that 2 times in 12 games and won one of them. You might have said 3-4 but clearly after the early start , you also said we might not win a game or maybe 1-2, then changed from game to game. You are consistently more negative than positive and frankly after the last 10 years and probably the last 25 , I can understand your skepticism. But Bac, it is not just effort and defense and great coaching but this team has heart, they never give up , a trait very few Rutgers teams have ever had .

PRESEASON PREDICTION THREAD.....9-4 ooc which I was wrong by 2 games....4-14 in conference ...thats bottom line. You said 6-8 wins if if if, I and Choppin and Willis kept telling you stop dealing in ifs that the team probably isnt capable of the expectations you are heaping in them...do not backtrack. Right now the team has TWO wins...neither of us are right....we may not hit 4 forget about 6.

 

[goru7]

the foul shooting is not going to change, it is what it is, you cannot play what ifs, every team would be better with better foul shooting, Yes the record is what it is, RU is tough for teams to play because some of these teams are not giving full effort but RU is and teams that give full effort are very hard to shake.

Don't miss the point!! You and me expected better foul shooting than we have seen . If you do not agree then you are not being honest. Foul shooting and cutting down on turnovers is not about talent but something that can be improved and why I am still hopeful we improve even a little bit to get some more wins.

 

[RU MAN]

we will need a scorer and a big guy next year to flirt with 500...easier said then done but who knows? Waters pulled Jerome Coleman out of nowhere, we can catch lighting in a bottle again

I'm hoping that shooter will be Baker. But I also think he may need to go the J Coleman route and pick up a juco if he can. As for a big man, I would love it if Mamadou can be part of the 2017 class, but if not and we can't recruit another grad transfer like CJ or through the juco ranks, I'm hoping the maturity of Doorsan and Sa can give us the minutes and scoring of CJ. Unless of course some of the guys transfer out or are pushed out. In that case, it may free up a scholarship for Pikiell to pull a rabbit out of his hat for next season.

 

[RU MAN]

The collective inability to make foul shots is as important as having a go to shooter.Its truly amazing that Rutgers has played so many close games with a squad full of non shooters.The coaching staff has done a magnificent job in keeping the team in games where the opponent clearly has the better talent.

No doubt. The kids coming back have to get better from the charity stripe. They just have to.

 

[goru7]

PRESEASON PREDICTION THREAD.....9-4 ooc which I was wrong by 2 games....4-14 in conference ...thats bottom line. You said 6-8 wins if if if, I and Choppin and Willis kept telling you stop dealing in ifs that the team probably isnt capable of the expectations you are heaping in them...do not backtrack. Right now the team has TWO wins...neither of us are right....we may not hit 4 forget about 6.

There you go again. That was the prediction, if we hit 6 threes we win 6-8 conference games. Choppin actually did not say that and in fact quoted all the predictions that proved exactly what I said, which you conveniently forgot although you commented in between our exchange. Now that you have watched 12 games , 7 on the road , do you think my expectations were unrealistic and outrageous as you claim?

 

[willisneverrana43]

Clearly, there is very little gap something you thought was impossible to close this year and you were wrong again. The whole team comes back next year along with a shooter in Geo, and hopefully Doucore can reclassify and give us a big guy that can consistently score next year to replace CJ. We are a flawed offensive team, not a good shooting team, not a good free throw shooting team, make too many unforced turnovers but still we are competing in every game ( except Iowa) something all of us long time season ticket holders and fans were hopeful we would see again. We have seen it in 1 year. Credit to Coach and his staff.

A number of observations from tonight:
1) We cut down on turnovers with only 11 tonite, one on Corey's charge and one on that last play by Nigel. We had 7 at the half and only 2 for 16 minutes of the second half that lead to better possessions and scoring.
2) Losing Corey was a killer but you have to love how we tied it at 62 without him down the stretch.
3) 2 huge killer plays that doomed us , Corey's foul on Williams that I thought was a bail out and he made three and Williams four point play on Mike . Corey's foul was his 4th and I truly believe we win the game if he doesn't foul out on that questionable 5th foul .
4) once again we only hit 4 three pointers (4-17) and I have been saying if we make 6 a game despite our turnover and foul shooting we would win more games. Mike and Corey were 1-5 and 1-4 . Issa missed a critical one that would have given us our first lead when Corey hit him in the corner all alone and MIKE if he set his feet on a couple might have hit 1 more that would have given us the win. Ohio State was only 5-12 including that prayer by Jackson with the clock at 1.
5) At some point we have to accept we are a bad foul shooting team and although I like most of the board can lament we were 10-18 including a couple of the front ends of one and one , we have to accept it and overcome it. We can overcome if we hit 6 threes a game or cut down on our turnovers to about 10 agame. We cut the turnovers this game , we hit 7 threes last game and won. If we get both to happen we will be in every game down the stretch.
6) The reffing and the calls are not something I want to harp on because calls are missed in some games but tonight the 3 blatant travels on Tate hurt badly. They are not debatable. The first one cost us as Tate hit the layup , the one with 8 seconds left in the half would have given us the ball under on own basket with a chance to cut the lead from 6 to 4 or 3 and I just blanked on the third one but was obvious and our bench was going nuts. There were 2 more calls missed when Deshawn was under the hoop and Tate pushed him directly in the back and when Shaquille before he got blocked by Thompson, he was hit when he got the rebound on the arm. We almost overcame all of it.
7) Coach going back to Issa in the starting lineup, something I advocated 4 games ago because we were getting nothing out of Eugene and we desperately need 3 point shooters is starting to pay dividends..He was also very aggressive defensively and used his length for some steals. We need him down the stretch.
8) Any one calling out Nigel tonight is blind. Like Lyle on Ohio State both guys played hurt were shells of themselves only scoring 2 a piece. Nigel could not push off on his legs which was obvious so anyone wondering what happened to him the last few games, he was hurt open your eyes.
9) Shaquille gave us valuable minutes and points tonite especially since CJ did not have one of his better efforts, which hopefully gets his confidence up. I was surprised Coach did not put him back in the last few minutes .
10) We are not that far away, a more consistent 3point shooter, more offensive big man finisher and we will win. Maybe Mike and Issa becomes that and Geo helps. Maybe Deshawn and Shaquille develop a little more and maybe Doucore reclassifies.
11) I am not ready to rule us out of any game with 6 to go plus we will be a pain in the ass for a few teams in the conference tourney. We are a competitive Big 10 team. Let that sink in for a minute. !!

If only Williams hit three 3-pointers this game--which we all know is his average--we got to OT.

 

[willisneverrana43]

Don't miss the point!! You and me expected better foul shooting than we have seen . If you do not agree then you are not being honest. Foul shooting and cutting down on turnovers is not about talent but something that can be improved and why I am still hopeful we improve even a little bit to get some more wins.

Just man-up, admit how crazy wrong you were on everything, and move on. This is only making it embarrassing.

 

[RJM_Go_RU]

I agree this team is fun to watch. They play hard. Give it their all. Appreciate the effort.

 

[jtung230]

I think the only thing you are not factoring in is how bad the B1G is this year. Can't assume RU will improve and everyone else will remain the same. We actually need to outpace everyone to have a chance at .500 in the B1G. Need to see recruiting and coaching improvements for that to happen.

 

[jellyman]

closing the gap is the first step...my biggest beef with you concerned wins, which they still are not doing...you said they were winning 6-8, I said no...3-5...and that is where will likely sit hopefully so tell me how that is wrong....team had to learn to win which they are still doing and having trouble with, you just assumed 6 or more wins

Plus, it is true goru7 has been saying RU would or COULD AVERAGE 6 to 7 3'pointers PER GAME ... and that would fuel 6-8 Big Ten wins.

It is true, if RU could hit 6 to 7 3's per game RU might get 6-8 Big Ten wins. But RU cannot AVERAGE that. One flaw in goru7's posts has been his inconsistency. He started by saying in late December that RU WOULD average over 6 3's per game. Then that RU COULD average over 6 3's per game. Now that IF ONLY RU could hit 6 3's per game, then they would win 6 to 8 games in the Big Ten. Plus, goru7 now argues that we, the fans, should simply "accept" that RU is a bad FT shooting team, and that RU has to do other things to offset that ... like make 6-7 3's per game. How about goru7 accepting that RU is simply not a good SHOOTING team, 3-pointers, 2 pointers OR FT's? Since that is, after all, the truth.

It is VERY difficult to win ANY SINGLE GAME in the Big Ten - or in any high level conference - hitting only 3 or 4 3's in ANY SINGLE GAME ... we have seen this throughout this season - and not just for RU.

Fact: RU has made just 105 3 pointers this entire season, in 25 games (29%): 4.2 per game.

Fact: RU has made just 43 3-pointers in Big Ten play, in 12 games (28%): 3.6 per game. Note: The SECOND worst team in the Big Ten, in Big Ten play, averages 5.9 3's per game (Illinois) ... and every OTHER team, besides Illinois and RU, averages 6.4 3's per game or better, in Big Ten play. Additional Note: In 12 Big Ten games this year, RU has hit 5 or more 3-pointers just 2 times: The 1st game against Wisconsin and the Penn State game ... as goru7 says, 1-1 in those games. Also likely: Had RU hit 6 3-pointers in any of the following games, RU very likely would have won: Ohio State, Wisconsin in the Garden, At Iowa, MAYBE vs Northwestern. THAT is 4 more wins. BUT ... it did not happen, and is not likely going to happen often, either.

Fact: RU's opponents have made 173 3's on the year, in 25 games (32%): 6.9 per game.

Fact: RU's BIG TEN Opponents have made 80 3-pointers in 12 games (33%): 6.7 per game.

Fact: RU is putrid with FT's: In Big Ten play RU average 56% FT, to its opponents averaging 74% ... and RU's opponents have made 60 more FT's than has RU ... if RU could shoot 70%, that would have been 30 more FT in Big Ten play.

RU's 2 biggest problems offensively will not be fixed this season: 3-point shooting and FT shooting. That is my OPINION, not fact, though it seems pretty close to fact.

 

[jellyman]

Plus, it is true goru7 has been saying RU would or COULD AVERAGE 6 to 7 3'pointers PER GAME ... and that would fuel 6-8 Big Ten wins.

It is true, if RU could hit 6 to 7 3's per game RU might get 6-8 Big Ten wins. But RU cannot AVERAGE that. One flaw in goru7's posts has been his inconsistency. He started by saying in late December that RU WOULD average over 6 3's per game. Then that RU COULD average over 6 3's per game. Now that IF ONLY RU could hit 6 3's per game, then they would win 6 to 8 games in the Big Ten. Plus, goru7 now argues that we, the fans, should simply "accept" that RU is a bad FT shooting team, and that RU has to do other things to offset that ... like make 6-7 3's per game. How about goru7 accepting that RU is simply not a good SHOOTING team, 3-pointers, 2 pointers OR FT's? Since that is, after all, the truth.

It is VERY difficult to win ANY SINGLE GAME in the Big Ten - or in any high level conference - hitting only 3 or 4 3's in ANY SINGLE GAME ... we have seen this throughout this season - and not just for RU.

Fact: RU has made just 105 3 pointers this entire season, in 25 games (29%): 4.2 per game.

Fact: RU has made just 43 3-pointers in Big Ten play, in 12 games (28%): 3.6 per game. Note: The SECOND worst team in the Big Ten, in Big Ten play, averages 5.9 3's per game (Illinois) ... and every OTHER team, besides Illinois and RU, averages 6.4 3's per game or better, in Big Ten play. Additional Note: In 12 Big Ten games this year, RU has hit 5 or more 3-pointers just 2 times: The 1st game against Wisconsin and the Penn State game ... as goru7 says, 1-1 in those games. Also likely: Had RU hit 6 3-pointers in any of the following games, RU very likely would have won: Ohio State, Wisconsin in the Garden, At Iowa, MAYBE vs Northwestern. THAT is 4 more wins. BUT ... it did not happen, and is not likely going to happen often, either.

Fact: RU's opponents have made 173 3's on the year, in 25 games (32%): 6.9 per game.

Fact: RU's BIG TEN Opponents have made 80 3-pointers in 12 games (33%): 6.7 per game.

Fact: RU is putrid with FT's: In Big Ten play RU average 56% FT, to its opponents averaging 74% ... and RU's opponents have made 60 more FT's than has RU ... if RU could shoot 70%, that would have been 30 more FT in Big Ten play.

RU's 2 biggest problems offensively will not be fixed this season: 3-point shooting and FT shooting. That is my OPINION, not fact, though it seems pretty close to fact.

I will add additional thoughts - since I just thought of them:

1) RU is -11 points per game in Big Ten play. RU makes something like 3.2 to 3.5 FEWER 3 pointers than the AVERAGE Big Ten team in Big Ten play. Do the math: RU's ENTIRE scoring differential in the Big Ten is due to the lack of the talent to take and make 3-pointers. That would seem unlikely to change over the last 6 games - though if RU gets hot in a couple of games, while its opponents do NOT get hot, then RU could get 2-3 more wins, maybe.

2) RU HAS been able to offset its poor FT shooting with great effort in defense and rebounding ... but not both its poor FT shooting AND its inability to make 3-pointers.

3) I distinctly remember the thread back in December when goru7 and bac2therac started this argument and spat. Goru7 clearly stated initially that RU WOULD average more than 6 3's per game in Big Ten play, which would fuel 6 to 8 Big Ten wins, or even more. I remember this because Bac very strongly challenged that assumption, pointing out that RU would have to do better - MUCH better - on making 3's (both percentage and number) against a much more difficult Big Ten schedule than the OOC schedule represented. Goru7 then backed off a little, arguing that maybe RU would not definitely do better, but that RU COULD do better. It was only much later in that thread, or in future threads, that goru7 then stated well, "if only" RU could average 6-7 3's per game ... And of course, we can see that RU is actually doing WORSE shooting 3's against a tougher portion of their schedule (no surprise, eh?). RU averages 3.6 3's (and 28% shooting) per game in Big Ten play, but averaged 4.8 3's (and 30% shooting) per game in OOC play.

 

[bac2therac]

thanks Jelly for some backup. For me I never expected a miracle for the team to go from 1 league win to 6-8 league wins in just one season, no matter who the coach was. Pike has done an amazing job this year so not sure why Goru keeps saying I have been negative. I've been pretty honest about the team..they lack talent overall and are not good shooters. I feel Pike is MAXING potential here. RU is playing fairly competitive night in and out. He is looking at specific stats and saying well if we did this we would have won these games, but thats not how it works, there are no Ifs, its about doing. I think overall this team is limited in their ceiling for this year. I just didnt like people putting too many expectations on the team just because I just do not think they are capable of consistently playing on all cylinders which they have to do to win games in this league.

 

[goru7]

I will add additional thoughts - since I just thought of them:

1) RU is -11 points per game in Big Ten play. RU makes something like 3.2 to 3.5 FEWER 3 pointers than the AVERAGE Big Ten team in Big Ten play. Do the math: RU's ENTIRE scoring differential in the Big Ten is due to the lack of the talent to take and make 3-pointers. That would seem unlikely to change over the last 6 games - though if RU gets hot in a couple of games, while its opponents do NOT get hot, then RU could get 2-3 more wins, maybe.

2) RU HAS been able to offset its poor FT shooting with great effort in defense and rebounding ... but not both its poor FT shooting AND its inability to make 3-pointers.

3) I distinctly remember the thread back in December when goru7 and bac2therac started this argument and spat. Goru7 clearly stated initially that RU WOULD average more than 6 3's per game in Big Ten play, which would fuel 6 to 8 Big Ten wins, or even more. I remember this because Bac very strongly challenged that assumption, pointing out that RU would have to do better - MUCH better - on making 3's (both percentage and number) against a much more difficult Big Ten schedule than the OOC schedule represented. Goru7 then backed off a little, arguing that maybe RU would not definitely do better, but that RU COULD do better. It was only much later in that thread, or in future threads, that goru7 then stated well, "if only" RU could average 6-7 3's per game ... And of course, we can see that RU is actually doing WORSE shooting 3's against a tougher portion of their schedule (no surprise, eh?). RU averages 3.6 3's (and 28% shooting) per game in Big Ten play, but averaged 4.8 3's (and 30% shooting) per game in OOC play.

Jelly, I appreciate, you attempting to point out things and you are almost accurate. You are flat wrong on what our expectations and predictions were. When our exchange occurred , we were coming off the out of conference, shooting free throws at a much better clip, the turnovers might have been about the same or a little less and could be improved, and Issa and Mike were the only ones shooting and making threes and Corey and Nigel had not gotten into a groove. I think we were at 4.8 threes a game without their contribution , so my expectation was we could get to 6. Then the Penn State game happened where we were 3-20 and Coach kinda implied we should not be taking more than 10 a game ( which I think is a mistake), and we proceeded to be tentative , making 1-2 a game or 3 at most , lost Issa for a while. As I thought Corey and Nigel started hitting more but I did not nor did you or Bac or his cousin , expect Mike to get none for 3-4 games. Yes my expectations were those 4 could hit 6 a game. If you did not expect it, we can disagree but try to be honest just a little. Coach gave a directive to cut down for about 5 games and guys got even more tentative. I am happy that we have 3 guys now that can and should hit a three, and as soon as Nigel is healthy again we will have 4. I like the last 2 games we are taking about 8-9 a half. We scored 70 in one game and won which bodes well. We scored 64 yesterday and lost and Issa missed a wide open look as did Mike . The coaching staff is thrilled Issa has recovered from his illness, putting him back in the starting lineup, and has seen him hit the three consistently in practice, and set up plays and give him a green light to shoot it. With Corey breaking down his man, Issa and Mike should have more opportunities to hit them. Now that is what I see and what I expected . If you and Bac expected differently at the end of the out of conference okay that is fine but I will stand with what I expected before it happened instead of coming on here now and citing what actually occurred. You also probably expected us to hit foul shots at an all time record low percentage as well especially our guards.

 

[goru7]

thanks Jelly for some backup. For me I never expected a miracle for the team to go from 1 league win to 6-8 league wins in just one season, no matter who the coach was. Pike has done an amazing job this year so not sure why Goru keeps saying I have been negative. I've been pretty honest about the team..they lack talent overall and are not good shooters. I feel Pike is MAXING potential here. RU is playing fairly competitive night in and out. He is looking at specific stats and saying well if we did this we would have won these games, but thats not how it works, there are no Ifs, its about doing. I think overall this team is limited in their ceiling for this year. I just didnt like people putting too many expectations on the team just because I just do not think they are capable of consistently playing on all cylinders which they have to do to win games in this league.

Be serious and honest for just one time in your posts. Did you really think we would be this competitive in our conference games and with chances to win more than the 2 we have won with 6 to go? You make predictions every game with a majority of them, not in line with the competitive team we have shown in conference play . If you predicted we would turn the ball over at an alarming rate, shoot free throws at an all time low, with our guards shooting below their history, and our shooting threes at below their history for our guards, then I will admit you were right. But you cannot if you are honest !

 

[bac2therac]

not worth arguing with you anymore

 

[goru7]

????? what the ****...I can not argue with stupid anymore

I should have known , this discussion was way over your head.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I know we can't shoot 3s.

Having said that.....comparing our 3pt % to others. Assuming that low percentage 3 attempts with a second in the shot clock are equal among 14 B1G team. How much does our percentage get hurt by having those attempts being weighted more than any other team since we take the fewest "normal" 3 attempts?