Van Gundy on Wenzel

[ColonelRutgers]

Wenzel was also putting his finger in the dike trying to maintain some level of talent. JuCo's and transfers was his way to get more plug and play guys that could contribute at some level short term and not run the risk of wasting a spot on some unproductive, development type kid who eventually would flunk out before he could contribute. We don't even think of academics being a risk in basketball or football anymore but it was a major issue pre-2000 and probably some of the newer fans don't have an appreciation for.

 

[RW90]

You're talking about Joe Jarldane. He literally never checked into a game as far as I can remember so you might be thinking of Andre Lamoureaux (24 pts against St. Joe's before flunking out). Jarldane had a really bad mullet situation going. But more importantly, I scored his scarlet #52 jersey on eBay last year!! I think I originally saw it included in the Tricky Tray portion of the Court Club Auction a few years ago.

I'm not going to defend Wenzel's recruiting but the point about academics being a problem for the program in the '90s is 100% correct. The number of players that flunked out (some before every playing a minute) was astronomical. The term "academically separated from the University" is seared into my brain. Some of the academic casualties, like Charles Jones, who later led the country in scoring at LIU, had legit talent. The academic support infrastructure must've been a joke then. You NEVER see anyone flunking out (as far as we know) anymore.

You must be right. I've must have confused Lameroux's with Jarldane's previous school after all these years...

 

[hinson32]

Wenzel only recruited four serviceable centers. The lam man (who flunked out), Weiler (skinny as a rail with no offensive game), Dabbs, and Eric Clark (played tough but was undersized and underweight).

How about Tenys?

 

[ColonelRutgers]

Wenzel may have been enthusiastic, and a good bench coach, but he was a terrible recruiter for a lot of his tenure. Who can forget these luminaries?

Johnny Blake
Jamar Holcomb (Ramaj St.James).
Rich Ashmede
Darko Matajasevic
Johnny McCrimmon
Andre Lamoreux

There are others. Wenzel never really topped the quality transfer haul his first season. There was a bump when RU joined the BE; I believe that he got Geoff Billet, Rob Hodgson, and Earl Johnson. After the run of NCAA and NIT appearances in the first four years, his RU tenure degenerated into a succession of losing seasons.

What about Muhammad Hasani? They made a big deal about he was a Serb and Albert Karner was Croatian and they had to be concerned about the recruitment and whether there would be any bad blood between the two. Hasani is probably the most forgotten about recruit of all time. Did less than nothing and - poof - was gone.

 

[Knightmoves]

What about Muhammad Hasani? They made a big deal about he was a Serb and Albert Karner was Croatian and they had to be concerned about the recruitment and whether there would be any bad blood between the two. Hasani is probably the most forgotten about recruit of all time. Did less than nothing and - poof - was gone.

There’s a rest of the story about Hasani’s recruitment to RU. PM me for details. It’s not a good look for FHJ.

 

[RUSCFORMERLYRULOU]

How about Tenys?

That was Bannon. I don’t know that I would describe Tenys as serviceable. Had one incredible exhibition game, then sprained his ankle. Good passer for a big man but did nothing otherwise.

 

[RUSCFORMERLYRULOU]

Wenzel may have been enthusiastic, and a good bench coach, but he was a terrible recruiter for a lot of his tenure. Who can forget these luminaries?

Johnny Blake
Jamar Holcomb (Ramaj St.James).
Rich Ashmede
Darko Matajasevic
Johnny McCrimmon
Andre Lamoreux

There are others. Wenzel never really topped the quality transfer haul his first season. There was a bump when RU joined the BE; I believe that he got Geoff Billet, Rob Hodgson, and Earl Johnson. After the run of NCAA and NIT appearances in the first four years, his RU tenure degenerated into a succession of losing seasons.

Mccrimmon had a game where he had eighteen rebounds. 18!! And we lost by double digits to Cuse.

 

[PiscatawayMike]

That was Bannon. I don’t know that I would describe Tenys as serviceable. Had one incredible exhibition game, then sprained his ankle. Good passer for a big man but did nothing otherwise.

Bannon ruined Tenys. He tried to turn him into a banger, which was not his game. Tenys was a classic high-post center. Fine passer. Nice shot. Bannon tried to turn him into a low-post center. Still get mad when I think about it.

 

[Plum Street]

Didn’t Wenzell recruit another suspect guy that had no business in the big East named Billy Gilligan ? Then that guy sued bannon or something

 

[RUSCFORMERLYRULOU]

BTW surprised no one has brought up Charles Jones.

 

[RUSCFORMERLYRULOU]

Didn’t Wenzell recruit another suspect guy that had no business in the big East named Billy Gilligan ? Then that guy sued bannon or something

Bannon recruit

 

[RUSCFORMERLYRULOU]

Bannon ruined Tenys. He tried to turn him into a banger, which was not his game. Tenys was a classic high-post center. Fine passer. Nice shot. Bannon tried to turn him into a low-post center. Still get mad when I think about it.

You’re right about the high post center. I remember he was in triple threat position on the foul line and dumped a no look pass over his soldier for an easy layup.
but his rebounding numbers were awful. I mean, putrid. High post centers still need to rebound[/QUOTE]

 

[RUSCFORMERLYRULOU]

Bannon recruit

Sorry - I was confusing my Billys. Billy Gilligan was a Wenzel recruit, Billy Collins was a Bannon recruit.

 

[rume]

Wenzel may have been enthusiastic, and a good bench coach, but he was a terrible recruiter for a lot of his tenure. Who can forget these luminaries?

Johnny Blake
Jamar Holcomb (Ramaj St.James).
Rich Ashmede
Darko Matajasevic
Johnny McCrimmon
Andre Lamoreux

There are others. Wenzel never really topped the quality transfer haul his first season. There was a bump when RU joined the BE; I believe that he got Geoff Billet, Rob Hodgson, and Earl Johnson. After the run of NCAA and NIT appearances in the first four years, his RU tenure degenerated into a succession of losing seasons.

Darko!

 

[RW90]

BTW surprised no one has brought up Charles Jones.

Charles was previously mentioned being one of our academic casualties.

 

[ColonelRutgers]

The first appearance for Tenys in an RU uniform was in an exhibition game and he looked like Bill Walton. He ran the floor, no look passes on the break. We thought we struck gold. That player never appeared again. To anyone else who never saw that game including broadcasters they probably thought of him as some sort of stiff but the guy had legitimate talent that was never realized. Very disappointing. I don't think Bannon ever made any attempt to really connect with him. This is just speculation but he was in a strange country and I think he was probably a little sensitive and lost confidence.

 

[RUSCFORMERLYRULOU]

The first appearance for Tenys in an RU uniform was in an exhibition game and he looked like Bill Walton. He ran the floor, no look passes on the break. We thought we struck gold. That player never appeared again. To anyone else who never saw that game including broadcasters they probably thought of him as some sort of stiff but the guy had legitimate talent that was never realized. Very disappointing. I don't think Bannon ever made any attempt to real connect with him. This is just speculation but he was in a strange country and I think he was probably a little sensitive and lost confidence.

Remember the ankle though. That set him back

 

[ColonelRutgers]

Remember the ankle though. That set him back

Don't remember that at all.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Bannon recruit

Incorrect ....wenzel recruit in the same class as
Billet and hodgeson

 

[Plum Street]

Bannon recruit

No he played under wenzel

 

[Plum Street]

Wenzel was also putting his finger in the dike trying to maintain some level of talent. JuCo's and transfers was his way to get more plug and play guys that could contribute at some level short term and not run the risk of wasting a spot on some unproductive, development type kid who eventually would flunk out before he could contribute. We don't even think of academics being a risk in basketball or football anymore but it was a major issue pre-2000 and probably some of the newer fans don't have an appreciation for.

Why are we recruiting better students ?

 

[Plum Street]

The first appearance for Tenys in an RU uniform was in an exhibition game and he looked like Bill Walton. He ran the floor, no look passes on the break. We thought we struck gold. That player never appeared again. To anyone else who never saw that game including broadcasters they probably thought of him as some sort of stiff but the guy had legitimate talent that was never realized. Very disappointing. I don't think Bannon ever made any attempt to really connect with him. This is just speculation but he was in a strange country and I think he was probably a little sensitive and lost confidence.

I remember he has some good moments .

 

[Plum Street]

Wally Dixon flunked out

 

[RUSCFORMERLYRULOU]

No he played under wenzel

Uh I corrected myself

 

[ColonelRutgers]

Why are we recruiting better students ?

I doubt it. The difference is the development of academic support at Rutgers which is more than an assistant coach checking to see if I guy is going to class which was probably close to the extent of it when Wenzel was there.

 

[Plum Street]

Richie ashmede , Johnny Blake , al Karner , darko ..... yikes !

 

[Plum Street]

It's all about academic support.

It shouldn’t be . People that get admitted to the university on scholarship should be able to pass some classes without academic support . No ?

 

[Night Man]

Who was the recruit that committed to Wenzel late in his tenure (1996 or 1997) who was highly regarded as a player but had no shot of qualifying?

 

[RW90]

Wally Dixon flunked out

Ditto Tom Savage which really hurt after his run in '89.:flush:

 

[ColonelRutgers]

It shouldn’t be . People that get admitted to the university on scholarship should be able to pass some classes without academic support . No ?

I would hope so but that's a whole other discussion about the whole system of college athletics which I'm not going to defend. The only thing I will say is that the demands on the time and energy of a student athlete at a big time school in this day and age is excessive and that doesn't even factor in the missed classes of athletes travelling all over the country to play games that fit into a nice television schedule. I don't care who you are. Balancing all of that stuff would be tough on any student.

 

[ColonelRutgers]

Ditto Tom Savage which really hurt after his run in '89.:flush:

Flunked out twice which was a neat trick. 2nd semester of 1989-90 season he flunked out, got back in for the Fall for the 1990-91 season and quickly flunked out again. Andre Lamoureaux nearly matched it by having to sit out a whole year after being in school just one year, only to come back and flunk out mid-season his 3rd year. The number of guys lost to academics back then was staggering.

 

[RW90]

I would hope so but that's a whole other discussion about the whole system of college athletics which I'm not going to defend. The only thing I will say is that the demands on the time and energy of a student athlete at a big time school in this day and age is excessive and that doesn't even factor in the missed classes of athletes travelling all over the country to play games that fit into a nice television schedule. I don't care who you are. Balancing all of that stuff would be tough on any student.

Which is why Myles Johnson is in a whole other class as far as I'm concerned.

 

[LotusAggressor]

Sadly that is the only RU NCAA game most of us can even discuss

That one and Iowa, where B.J. Armstrong lit up RU for 35 in the 1989 NCAA Tournament.

 

[LotusAggressor]

I doubt it. The difference is the development of academic support at Rutgers which is more than an assistant coach checking to see if I guy is going to class which was probably close to the extent of it when Wenzel was there.

The lack of academic support killed Doug Graber in football. He lost the equivalent of an entire recruiting class to academics during his time as head coach. Shea had the same problem, but he had other issues, too. Establishing a robust academic support system was one of the most important things Schiano did at RU.

 

[Plum Street]

That one and Iowa, where B.J. Armstrong lit up RU for 35 in the 1989 NCAA Tournament.

I always forgot about that game . Maybe because just getting there was the thing .
This makes me sure though that we really owe iowa

 

[snowboarder]

I loved Bob Wenzel at first and still think he's great
What he did that first year was something that was nothing short of amazing
Bob gets credit for creating one of the most memorable moments in RU sports history (A-10 Final which I was at of course)
I do remember Bob being asked if RU was his dream job, he surprisingly responded that he saw himself as a broadcaster
I think that if Bob wanted to be a great coach at RU, he would have been.
He had such a dynamic personality and brought good kids in initially
I just don't think he wanted this long term and stopped putting in the effort on the recruiting trail

 

[80RU]

Ok. I believe you are being sarcastic but if not this is a reason why RU athletic programs overall were so putrid during my time and for the decades forward.

Marcotte who I believe transferred from recruiting hotbed of Brookdale Community College was actually roommates with a guy I knew on campus. Wenzel was just throwing university money around like Christmas when he couldn’t get top or second tier talent to join the program.

Bannon had a chance to turn the program around but he was an introverted nut case where as Rice was more extroverted.

GO RU

Not being sarcastic at all. I said that your statement that Marcotte got schooled in the rec league is ridiculous. I was totally in earnest, it is ridiculous.

 

[satnom]

Not being sarcastic at all. I said that your statement that Marcotte got schooled in the rec league is ridiculous. I was totally in earnest, it is ridiculous.

Dude had no business getting a RU scholarship. Wenzell must have been friends with his family.

GO RU

 

[Joey Bacala]

and he hung his hat on Tim Thomas...

That one could have changed the trajectory. I can't ever remember a RAC crowd openly begging a recruit to come to RU like we did for TT when he was at a game and even when he wasn't at the game. I remember even on TV they spoke about it - the signs, the chants, etc.

 

[RUfromSoCal?]

Wenzel and Graber we two very very good head coaches who never had the talent or support they deserved.