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Way OT: If You're Into Creepy Things, Wow...

DirtyRU

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David Paulides, ex- law enforcement turned author. He has written several books on an interesting topic (Missing 411 series) and appears often on Coast To Coast AM (yes I know, it's typically wackos on that show). This guy is very determined to shed some light on a topic that often seems to get brushed under the rug (by media, law enforcement, government perhaps), or gets brief exposure then nothing, etc. He is really the first to sort of try to connect the dots and find common denominators, although what makes him a fascinating listen is he never tips his hat on his opinion because quite frankly, he is clueless just like the rest of us on the causes of this.

The topic? Mysterious disappearances of people of all ages, mostly in state forests around the US and Canada (Yosemite is by far the worst cluster), although more recently his research has lead him towards more urban areas as well. The guy is just an encyclopedia, a wealth of knowledge of missing cases dating back to the 50s. He discards a case if a body is found and the cause of death is obvious. Rather, he researches the unexplained cases... and there are literally thousands of them spanning over several decades. I'm talking REALLY REALLY bizarre sh#t here fellas... like a toddler goes missing in a state forest, is found dead on a such mountaneous terrain that is is literally impossible for him to have gotten there alone, yet there is absolutely no sign of foul play, no sign of an animal attack, etc. Cause of death is usually "exposure". Often bizarre things like the person's shoes are missing. That's just one brief example. And often a body is never found. People just vanish. And what makes it stranger is the S&R often goes over the same area several times and hten when a body IS found, suddenly it's just there. Often dogs completely lose scent and just lie down. Often bad weather rolls in and hampers the search. And when I say often, I mean at an alarming rate. It's all just so bizarre and creepy. There are all kinds of stories and they all have at least a few things in common, which is why he takes them on and writes about them.

Anyway, I've rambled on long enough. But again, if you're into creepy real-life mystery kind of stuff, it is, besides the obvious (depressing, creepy, etc.) VERY fascinating IMHO. Obviously not everyone's cup of tea. But for those of you who find stuff like this fascinating, just search "David Paulides" on Youtube, fire up some of his Coast To Coast AM interviews, kill the lights, throw on some headphones, sit back and listen. Try to come up with your own theories. In my opinion, most of the case make ZERO sense and are simply baffling and downright terrifying. And the more cases you listen to in his interviews, the more baffling it gets. After he does his typical intro (which is def. repeated on several occasions due to new listeners who aren't familiar with him, etc.) he just spews out case after case after case, each one just as bizarre & baffling as the next. And of course the common denominators always creep up.
 
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tl;dr

resized_ancient-aliens-invisible-something-meme-generator-i-m-not-saying-it-was-aliens-but-it-was-aliens-1824f9.jpg
 
Hahahaha, yup. Sorry I rambled. I know. ;) And fukyea it's def. aliens, ha!
 
David Paulides, ex- law enforcement turned author. He has written several books on an interesting topic (Missing 411 series) and appears often on Coast To Coast AM (yes I know, it's typically wackos on that show). This guy is very determined to shed some light on a topic that often seems to get brushed under the rug (by media, law enforcement, government perhaps), or gets brief exposure then nothing, etc. He is really the first to sort of try to connect the dots and find common denominators, although what makes him a fascinating listen is he never tips his hat on his opinion because quite frankly, he is clueless just like the rest of us on the causes of this.

The topic? Mysterious disappearances of people of all ages, mostly in state forests around the US and Canada (Yosemite is by far the worst cluster), although more recently his research has lead him towards more urban areas as well. The guy is just an encyclopedia, a wealth of knowledge of missing cases dating back to the 50s. He discards a case if a body is found and the cause of death is obvious. Rather, he researches the unexplained cases... and there are literally thousands of them spanning over several decades. I'm talking REALLY REALLY bizarre sh#t here fellas... like a toddler goes missing in a state forest, is found dead on a such mountaneous terrain that is is literally impossible for him to have gotten there alone, yet there is absolutely no sign of foul play, no sign of an animal attack, etc. Cause of death is usually "exposure". Often bizarre things like the person's shoes are missing. That's just one brief example. And often a body is never found. People just vanish. And what makes it stranger is the S&R often goes over the same area several times and hten when a body IS found, suddenly it's just there. Often dogs completely lose scent and just lie down. Often bad weather rolls in and hampers the search. And when I say often, I mean at an alarming rate. It's all just so bizarre and creepy. There are all kinds of stories and they all have at least a few things in common, which is why he takes them on and writes about them.

Anyway, I've rambled on long enough. But again, if you're into creepy real-life mystery kind of stuff, it is, besides the obvious (depressing, creepy, etc.) VERY fascinating IMHO. Obviously not everyone's cup of tea. But for those of you who find stuff like this fascinating, just search "David Paulides" on Youtube, fire up some of his Coast To Coast AM interviews, kill the lights, throw on some headphones, sit back and listen. Try to come up with your own theories. In my opinion, most of the case make ZERO sense and are simply baffling and downright terrifying. And the more cases you listen to in his interviews, the more baffling it gets. After he does his typical intro (which is def. repeated on several occasions due to new listeners who aren't familiar with him, etc.) he just spews out case after case after case, each one just as bizarre & baffling as the next. And of course the common denominators always creep up.
oh brother!
 
Right? I don't know man, I find it very fascinating and addictive.

I listened. Guy's a quack. So much of what he states as fact simply isn't. It's entertainment and he's found a market.

And yes, I'm in law enforcement myself.
 
I listened. Guy's a quack. So much of what he states as fact simply isn't. It's entertainment and he's found a market.

And yes, I'm in law enforcement myself.
Really? Wow. I am in no way, shape or form knowledgeable on any of this stuff, which is probably why I find it interesting, ha. But regardless of what David says, isn't it still a fact that a large volume of people go missing and the cases remain either unsolved or unexplained with bizarre, confusing or non-closures? As law enforcement, I'd be curious to hear your take on some of the cases he addresses.
 
Really? Wow. I am in no way, shape or form knowledgeable on any of this stuff, which is probably why I find it interesting, ha. But regardless of what David says, isn't it still a fact that a large volume of people go missing and the cases remain either unsolved or unexplained with bizarre, confusing or non-closures? As law enforcement, I'd be curious to hear your take on some of the cases he addresses.

Well for one he says that bodies decompose with a lot more consistency under water than they do on land. Completely untrue. Under water, a body will be exposed to many changes in the surrounding temperature, pH and salt content, all of these variables will affect when rigor mortis sets in. These factors make determination of the time of death under water a difficult process, maybe more difficult than on land.

And when he mentions that a lot of subjects are found near rivers and streams.. it's not mysterious at all. When lost hikers find a stream, they assume that if they follow it, it will lead them to a populated area. But they either succumb to the elements before they get far enough or found a stream that peters out in the wilderness.

I could keep going by poking holes into many of his claims. Paulides twists facts and leaves a lot out, making things seem a lot more mysterious than they are. The simplest explanation is usually true (Occam's razor) but time and time again, Paulides doesn't discuss these.. he simply goes off on the extreme explanation that would best fit his narrative. To the uninformed novice, these may seem like the most rational conclusions. But they're not.

Another reason to be skeptical is that Paulides was a Bigfoot researcher after his law enforcement career. He is also in MUFON. Most cops would never jump from a life of solving real world crimes to one of solving supernatural mysteries. It's just not part of our DNA. We deal with reality and facts. For Paulides to be interested in such a diametrically different line of work really tells me a lot about what kind of individual he is.
 
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Well for one he says that bodies decompose with a lot more consistency under water than they do on land. Completely untrue. Under water, a body will be exposed to many changes in the surrounding temperature, pH and salt content, all of these variables will affect when rigor mortis sets in. These factors make determination of the time of death under water a difficult process, maybe more difficult than on land.

And when he mentions that a lot of subjects are found near rivers and streams.. it's not mysterious at all. When lost hikers find a stream, they assume that if they follow it, it will lead them to a populated area. But they either succumb to the elements before they get far enough or found a stream that peters out in the wilderness.

I could keep going by poking holes into many of his claims. Paulides twists facts and leaves a lot out, making things seem a lot more mysterious than they are. The simplest explanation is usually true (Occam's razor) but time and time again, Paulides doesn't discuss these.. he simply goes off on the extreme explanation that would best fit his narrative. To the uninformed novice, these may seem like the most rational conclusions. But they're not.

Another reason to be skeptical is that Paulides was a Bigfoot researcher after his law enforcement career. He is also in MUFON. Most cops would never jump from a life of solving real world crimes to one of solving supernatural mysteries. It's just not part of our DNA. We deal with reality and facts. For Paulides to be interested in such a diametrically different line of work really tells me a lot about what kind of individual he is.
Wow. Good stuff. Great info there man, thanks for the reply.
 
I haven't had a chance to listen to him too much, but curious, what is he suggesting happened? Aliens? Sophisticated hillbillies? High level Government porn ring? Tallahassee PD?
 
I haven't had a chance to listen to him too much, but curious, what is he suggesting happened? Aliens? Sophisticated hillbillies? High level Government porn ring? Tallahassee PD?
He never makes his own personal suggestion because he, too, is baffled by these cases, which I think is what makes him extra intriguing to listen to. Feels non-agenda driven, even if he does have his own agendas.
 
Another reason to be skeptical is that Paulides was a Bigfoot researcher after his law enforcement career. He is also in MUFON. Most cops would never jump from a life of solving real world crimes to one of solving supernatural mysteries. It's just not part of our DNA. We deal with reality and facts. For Paulides to be interested in such a diametrically different line of work really tells me a lot about what kind of individual he is.

Sorry, but this just isn't true. Way way too much proof to show you are wrong on this.

Many law enforcement officials have witnessed, then become interested in the UFO phenomena because of the fact they couldn't explain what they saw, even with their training and experience. David Paulides isn't the only former police officer to turn UFO Hunter.

Gary Heseltine retired as a police detective in 2013, launched and now runs UFO Truth Magazine.

James Clarkson is a former Aberdeen, Washington Police Detective (20 years with force, retiring with rank of Sergeant) who has been investigating UFO cases since 1986, and is an active member of the UFO Network.

Derrell Sims is a former military police officer and CIA operative....who now investigates UFO cases.

Many of the most intriguing UFO cases, in fact, come from witnesses who were/are police officers, including:

1.) Marshall County (Minnesota) Sherriff Val Johnson called in that he was witnessing a UFO....and believes his patrol car sustained sustained damage from an unidentifed light and object.

2.) New Mexico State police officer Lonnie Zamora famously reported his sighting, which got worldwide attention.

3.) Huntington, Indiana police officers Chip Olinger, Greg Hedrick, and Randy Merchant, simultaneously reported seeing an object none of them could explain.

4.) Then there was a case in Illinois where police officers Craig Stevens, Ed Barton, Melvern Nol, and and Steve Wonnacott, from 4 different police units in 4 neighboring towns, all tracked a UFO on the record, as it moved through their respective towns.

http://www.ufoevidence.org/cases/case277.htm

I don't buy for one second that just because someone is a member of law enforcement, they would never get into this field because it's not part of their DNA. Way too much evidence above, to the contrary.
 
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Sorry, but this just isn't true. Way way too much proof to show you are wrong on this.

Many law enforcement officials have witnessed, then become interested in the UFO phenomena because of the fact they couldn't explain what they saw, even with their training and experience. David Paulides isn't the only former police officer to turn UFO Hunter.

Gary Heseltine retired as a police detective in 2013, launched and now runs UFO Truth Magazine.

James Clarkson is a former Aberdeen, Washington Police Detective (20 years with force, retiring with rank of Sergeant) who has been investigating UFO cases since 1986, and is an active member of the UFO Network.

Derrell Sims is a former military police officer and CIA operative....who now investigates UFO cases.

Many of the most intriguing UFO cases, in fact, come from witnesses who were/are police officers, including:

1.) Marshall County (Minnesota) Sherriff Val Johnson called in that he was witnessing a UFO....and believes his patrol car sustained sustained damage from an unidentifed light and object.

2.) New Mexico State police officer Lonnie Zamora famously reported his sighting, which got worldwide attention.

3.) Huntington, Indiana police officers Chip Olinger, Greg Hedrick, and Randy Merchant, simultaneously reported seeing an object none of them could explain.

4.) Then there was a case in Illinois where police officers Craig Stevens, Ed Barton, Melvern Nol, and and Steve Wonnacott, from 4 different police units in 4 neighboring towns, all tracked a UFO on the record, as it moved through their respective towns.

http://www.ufoevidence.org/cases/case277.htm

I don't buy for one second that just because someone is a member of law enforcement, they would never get into this field because it's not part of their DNA. Way too much evidence above, to the contrary.


I said "most." You presented a few anecdotes.. Out of the hundreds of thousands of law enforcement in this country, the vast majority would never consider that Bigfoot or UFOs are real phenomena.
 
I said "most." You're misquoting me. Out of the hundreds of thousands of law enforcement in this country, the vast majority would never consider that Bigfoot or UFOs are real phenomena.

I'm not trying to be defensive or difficult (because really, I don't care that much about it) but unless this question (is UFO phenomena real?) has been asked of the hundreds of thousands of law enforcement officers, which I'm sure it hasn't....you simply cannot make that assumption that the vast majority would say no...especially sine there is proof that at least some have said yes....and they're just the ones who have been willing to speak up. Your don't know what each of them are thinking.

I agree with you when it comes to Bigfoot, because I think that is something a much much smaller group of people actually believe in (I don't at all).

I think believing in, or believing in the possibility of UFO's or life existing elsewhere..... is much different than Bigfoot.

It's like being a pilot. There are pilots who have said they've witnessed a UFO, but a far greater number have said off the record that even though they have witnessed something, they would NEVER go public with it, or even report/give a statement about it to their bosses.....for fear of job security. I believe the same exact thing applies to police officers.
 
I'm not trying to be defensive or difficult (because really, I don't care that much about it) but unless this question (is UFO phenomena real?) has been asked of the hundreds of thousands of law enforcement officers, which I'm sure it hasn't....you simply cannot make that assumption that the vast majority would say no...especially sine there is proof that at least some have said yes....and they're just the ones who have been willing to speak up. Your don't know what each of them are thinking.

I agree with you when it comes to Bigfoot, because I think that is something a much much smaller group of people actually believe in (I don't at all).

I think believing in, or believing in the possibility of UFO's or life existing elsewhere..... is much different than Bigfoot.

It's like being a pilot. There are pilots who have said they've witnessed a UFO, but a far greater number have said off the record that even though they have witnessed something, they would NEVER go public with it, or even report/give a statement about it to their bosses.....for fear of job security. I believe the same exact thing applies to police officers.


Well, agree to disagree. As a member of law enforcement for nearly 15 years, I am in a position to know what many of them think of the supernatural. If they haven't seen it with their own eyes, it doesn't exist. Witness testimony is quite unreliable and depends to a large extent on the mental state of the observer. The "job security" thing is very overblown.. many of the people that use this as a crutch have seen a few interviews about UFOs on TV and have run with it. The majority of these UFO sightings have been sensationalized to the point that anything we see in the sky these days without conventional explanation must be aliens.

And for the record, life on other planets (which I believe does exist) is a much, much different thing than aliens visiting earth (which I don't believe) and abducting/terrorizing people.
 
Look, I watch Ancient Aliens every week....

But, I find this specific topic (and David Paulides generally), very questionable. Guy starts out as a Bigfoot hunter - then merges that into people missing in remote locations - notices some (very questionable) patterns - and based on a few (largely misreported or unverifiable second and third-hand reports) he implies (but never directly states) there might be aliens involved.

If you consider that the National Park system alone is about 85 million acres (that's about as big as Utah, Colorado and Kansas combined) - and it's in some of the most remote and dangerous terrain - the fact that a handful of idiots go missing really isn't surprising.

I'm not dismissing the fact there might be very sick people (mass murderers or even cults) that take advantage of people in these remote locations - and there might, in fact, be a real problem that needs to be addressed. and I even might accept the possibility of extra-terrestrial contact has taken (or may take place) at some point ---- but, people who go out in the woods thinking nature is as safe as a trip to Disneyland are bound to run into trouble at some point...

I get it, cryptids are big business --- but not buying this one......
 
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Anyone know if Paulides ever did a piece on the Elisa Lam case? I know it's not parks related, but it's one of the creepiest stories (and related videos) I've ever read/seen. Disturbed me more than the park disappearances.
 
Well, agree to disagree. As a member of law enforcement for nearly 15 years, I am in a position to know what many of them think of the supernatural. If they haven't seen it with their own eyes, it doesn't exist. Witness testimony is quite unreliable and depends to a large extent on the mental state of the observer. The "job security" thing is very overblown.. many of the people that use this as a crutch have seen a few interviews about UFOs on TV and have run with it. The majority of these UFO sightings have been sensationalized to the point that anything we see in the sky these days without conventional explanation must be aliens.

And for the record, life on other planets (which I believe does exist) is a much, much different thing than aliens visiting earth (which I don't believe) and abducting/terrorizing people.

I don't believe we have been visited (yet), and certainly don't believe for a second in the whole abduction thing....but I do believe in the possibility of UFO's since it just makes sense there are much older civilizations somewhere with much older technology to travel the great distances it takes to get here. We just haven't found them yet.

Your many assumptions aside (ie. you "know" what most cops think, because you are one, or that people not reporting over fear of losing their job is overblown, or that most sightings have been sensationalized etc.) I agree to disagree with you.

Also, it is the very belief people have that thee is life on other planets....which makes them at least curious abut the existence of UFO's...even if they have never seen one or think we have been visited.
 
Turtle- He discusses it in one of the Coast To Coast interviews, I forget which one, but it fits a lot of his criteria... and yes!!!! So freakin creepy. The elevator footage, contaminated water, wow. Unreal.
 
I don't believe we have been visited (yet), and certainly don't believe for a second in the whole abduction thing....but I do believe in the possibility of UFO's since it just makes sense there are much older civilizations somewhere with much older technology to travel the great distances it takes to get here. We just haven't found them yet.

Your many assumptions aside (ie. you "know" what most cops think, because you are one, or that people not reporting over fear of losing their job is overblown, or that most sightings have been sensationalized etc.) I agree to disagree with you.

Also, it is the very belief people have that thee is life on other planets....which makes them at least curious abut the existence of UFO's...even if they have never seen one or think we have been visited.

Yes, I'm making assumptions, but you are as well. However, my assumptions are based on 20 years of close working relationships with thousands of law enforcement (at both the local and federal level) and military personnel.. yours are based on watching cable tv and reading dramatized accounts, most of which has never been corroborated.
 
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Yes, I'm making assumptions, but you are as well. However, my assumptions are based on 20 years of close working relationships with thousands of law enforcement (at both the local and federal level) and military personnel.. yours are based on watching cable tv and reading dramatized accounts, most of which has never been corroborated.

SO wait, are you an actual law enforcement officer, or do you just have working relationships with them?

An assumption is stating something without verifiable fact to support it, like saying the vast majority of hundreds of thousands of people believe something (like there are no such things as UFO's) with no corroborating evidence to support it.

The fact that you had working relationships with law enforcement officers (which now makes it sound like you are not even an actual law enforcement officer yourself) does not in any way mean you are able to speak about the "opinions" of hundreds of thousands of people, and how they feel. Because you have some anectdotal evidence that some do not believe in UFO's is equally incomplete to my anecdotal evidence of the former police officers and sheriffs that do believe.

Both are way too small a sampling.

At no point did I make such an assumption. I never said that most law enforcement officers "believe in UFO's." That would be an equally unproven assumption to yours.

I said that there is absolutely no proof that you are correct, because they have never been asked, so you cannot make that assumption.

The anecdotal evidence I found took me all of 20 seconds to find via a single google search, and that was STILL provided more fact than anything you have said to back up your assumptions.

You said my assumptions are based on watching cable tv and reading dramatized accounts?

What assumption did I make that you are referring to, because I didn't make any. At all.

Please feel free to list them,
 
SO wait, are you an actual law enforcement officer, or do you just have working relationships with them?

An assumption is stating something without verifiable fact to support it, like saying the vast majority of hundreds of thousands of people believe something (like there are no such things as UFO's) with no corroborating evidence to support it.

The fact that you had working relationships with law enforcement officers (which now makes it sound like you are not even an actual law enforcement officer yourself) does not in any way mean you are able to speak about the "opinions" of hundreds of thousands of people, and how they feel. Because you have some anectdotal evidence that some do not believe in UFO's is equally incomplete to my anecdotal evidence of the former police officers and sheriffs that do believe.

Both are way too small a sampling.

At no point did I make such an assumption. I never said that most law enforcement officers "believe in UFO's." That would be an equally unproven assumption to yours.

I said that there is absolutely no proof that you are correct, because they have never been asked, so you cannot make that assumption.

The anecdotal evidence I found took me all of 20 seconds to find via a single google search, and that was STILL provided more fact than anything you have said to back up your assumptions.

You said my assumptions are based on watching cable tv and reading dramatized accounts?

What assumption did I make that you are referring to, because I didn't make any. At all.

Please feel free to list them,

Wow you're really into this topic. Google searches make all your posts completely credible... great work. You're making an assumption that everything you read on the internet is true and provides enough context. I suggest you join your local UFO investigators club to work off all of this energy and interest you have in the paranormal.

And yes I am a law enforcement officer. Usually, law enforcement officers work with other law enforcement officers.

I wish this topic was worth my time. As such, it is not. Good luck finding whatever it is you're searching for re: UFOs and extraterrestrials. Ignore enabled.
 
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Wow you're really into this topic. Google searches make all your posts completely credible... great work. You're making an assumption that everything you read on the internet is true and provides enough context. I suggest you join your local UFO investigators club to work off all of this energy and interest you have in the paranormal.

And yes I am a law enforcement officer. Usually, law enforcement officers work with other law enforcement officers.

I wish this topic was worth my time. As such, it is not. Good luck finding whatever it is you're searching for re: UFOs and extraterrestrials. Ignore enabled.

Google search or not, at least I play with facts....not opinion.

Of course you didn't answer my question..in which I asked you to point out the assumption(s) you claimed I made, after I pointed out all your incorrect fallacies.

So, once you know you you can't win an argument, rather than admit you were wrong, you'd rather just claim boredom so it appears you don't have to answer the question at all.

Good work, officer. Your fellow law enforcement officers should be more than a little embarrassed at how easily you crumbled.
 
So the aliens guy with the funny hair posts on here. Cool.
 
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