What is Chris Ash's Vision??
- Thread starter rutgersal
- Start date
I'll summarize for you.
Some vocal minority posters- Ash sucks.
A majority of posters- Ash is doing fine, admitting that he has done some things not up to snuff, but they are cutting him some slack since he made mistakes as a rookie.
This third year is key to him showing progress. Most agree that at least 5 wins is a must, and some say nothing less than 6 wins.
Can I just say, again...
Holy f*ck, with this thread...
Holy f*ck, with this thread...
I'm not a huge fan of Ash, no .but you are throwing red herrings yourself. How was Michigan State the last 2 years? Was michigan great last year? How unbeatable was Iowa two years ago? Each year teams will be up and down. The guy I was quoting said that the reason we can't have decent season for a decade is bc we were built for the AAC and the culture sucked .so Ash needs 10 years of culture In order to get us competitive. I called bull bc we were competitive in 2014 even with the supposed aac program and the worst coach to ever touch a program who single handedly in two years made us by far the team most devoid of "culture" in the history of winning culture. LoL.
Truth is, as I keep saying, no one knows. Both sides have points. But the Ash culture argument is not the silver bullet to make all counter-points invalid.
Hopefully, for all our sakes, we get those wins. If we don't though, I ha e no doubt that many will keep making excuses and moving the goal posts. Not a doubt at all .
Dude literally no one is saying that. Everyone is saying the things you said you are ok with.
We all keep discussing marketing/identity of program, recruiting, offensive blunders.
I have seen maybe 2 people on my history if this board acting like Ash ruined a great thing .Those two are flood lackeys. If ppl are saying that killing off "chop" and dulling down the programs image was a bad idea...I have to agree with them. But that goes directly to marketing and program image .
Well I will be damned. Hatinring said next time I'm wrong on this board will be my first. No sooner did he say that and he continued post with a bunch of bull crap comments that are wrong. That's got to be a record for proving one self right. I guess you can say he killed 2 birds with one post. Nice job. Hat
Nobody is making any excuses or moving any goal posts.
5 wins this season would have been great. EMU was a WTF game that killed that opportunity.
As for 2018, Texas St., Kansas, Buffalo and Illinois are must win games.
As far as picking up 2 more, we need to beat least 2 of Maryland, Indiana, Michigan and Northwestern.
The rest of the schedule will be brutal: Ohio State, Wisconsin, Penn State and Michigan State
Last edited:
From day one, Schiano laid out a clear vision and recruiting strategy. He was going to win Championships, recruit the State of Rutgers and Florida. Now many laughed, but at least people knew the direction of the program, and this gave many in the fanbase comfort that he had the correct strategy for success. That's why I always knew Schiano would turn Rutgers around, because when you have a good strategy, the only variable left is time. He also had coordinators that had tons of experience. Paul Ferraro was the DC and Bill Cubit, who had tons of experience, was the OC. Just like Schiano, James Franklin has a clear vision and value proposition, which has helped facilitate Penn States success, in addition to the factors you mentioned.
But more importantly, Schiano executed the strategy, landing Rikki Cook and beat Notre Dame for Brad Cunningham. So we could see the talent getting better during schiano's first signing day, as Rutgers hadn't been able to land this caliber of recruit previously.
https://www.app.com/story/sports/co...aching-staff-greg-schiano-chris-ash/79030258/
"
So when Schiano, a then-34-year-old Ramapo native, called an on-campus meeting of the top 35 recruits in the state and then-Rutgers sophomore Raheem Orr of Elizabeth delivered an impassioned player-to-player plea, minds started changing.
“I made my decision off that idea,” offensive lineman Sameeh McDonald said. “He said, ‘You are from Elizabeth. Would you go play for Union High School? You are from Newark. Would you go play for Irvington High School?’ You wouldn’t. You want to rep your neighborhood.
“Well, this is your neighborhood. If you want to rep your neighborhood then you rep Rutgers. You don’t have any roots in Michigan. He put the emphasis on putting your hometown on the map. He didn’t say state university. He made it seem like Rutgers was your town.”
In regards to Brian Leonard, your doubts mean nothing. Everybody who frequently posted on this site in 2002, knew who Brian Leonard was, even as a freshman, was because landing him was one of the biggest recruiting coups of the Schiano era. It also helped that his family members used to post. We beat Syracuse, Penn State, and Notre Dame for him, and that was one of the few times where we beat those schools for a recruit. Expectations were high, and I and many others felt he had NFL potential, day 1.
There used to be a lot of back and forth between Rutgers and Syracuse fans, with Brian Leonards recruitment provoking some of the most spirited, and meanest exchanges. The Syracuse fans were so incensed at losing him, one of my favorite SU posters, PhatOrange, referred to him as "a slow white running back". That was one of the few times, we got to "stick it to them". Later when Rutgers beat Syracuse 24-7, one of Brian Leonards family members asked Phatty "Hey Phatty, what do you think about Rutgers slow white running back", or something to that affect. Good Times.
Whatever Brian Leonard's motivation were, are not important. Schiano landed him, period, end of story, and he helped lead Rutgers from the bottom of college football to near the top in 2006, which was a tremendous accomplishment.
Who is Brian Leonard on today's roster? In 2002, we knew. Today, which is part of year 3 of the Chris Ash era, I hope someone emerges.
Last edited:
I'm glad Ash's 2017 class is equivalent to Schiano's 2007 class, because we've made 17 years of progress. Our facilities are much better than they were previously. Now if only Ash's 2018 class were more similar to Ash's 2017 class, we'd all be happy campers, and no one would be complaining about Ashs recruiting. He's got to do better with the 2019 class.
As a matter of fact, I do think that McNulty will have the Joe Moorhead effect on the Rutgers offense. And I do think our offense will be much better this year, than last year. Hiring McNulty is probably one of the best decisions Ash has ever made, so I'm happy to give credit where I think its due.
I'm willing to give Ash a fair shake. But that doesn't mean I'm going to refrain from expressing concerns, have blind faith, and stick my head in the sand till the end of year 5, which is what many seem to want.
Chris Ash's vision is to put a smart and hard-playing football team on the field in the best conference in the country. He does not have great resources with which to accomplish that. But he seems to be attending to all aspects of the team. This year's hires, with a limited budget are impressive. It's going to be a bit of a slog, but he is the kind of guy, who if we can get to the 8-4 level, will keep us at the 8-4 level with a shot to do better.
Schiano was 3-20 after two years, and was not playing in the toughest division in football. Ash may not make it there; he has weaknesses. But what I see is him working on those weaknesses and building on strengths wherever he can. He appears to me to be tireless, dedicated, and honest. I could be wrong in my perception, but if correct, I'll take that for the next four years or so.
Schiano was 3-20 after two years, and was not playing in the toughest division in football. Ash may not make it there; he has weaknesses. But what I see is him working on those weaknesses and building on strengths wherever he can. He appears to me to be tireless, dedicated, and honest. I could be wrong in my perception, but if correct, I'll take that for the next four years or so.
Holy crap with the revisionist history. No comparison to what gs started with and as all know, I couldn't stand the guy. also, be had Miami, vt, sarah, and bc which were always ranked and playing in bowls.
No one is questioning his tirelessness, dedication, or honesty, which is there in spades. Its not enough to work hard. Donkeys work hard. He's got to work smarter, so that he can ultimately show results.
That starts with a more effective message that will inspire fans and recruits, so that for example, more of NJ's best will be compelled to attend Rutgers Junior Day, like the Ronnie Hickman's and Antonio Alfano's, who skipped it. "The Hunt" has fallen flat, imo.
We have 1 signee in three years of effort recruiting Ohio, likely because midwest recruits prefer midwest schools. IMO, reallocate that effort to Florida, where the previous staff showed a better Return on Investment in the form of current starter Wharton and previous starters Grant and Applefield.
How about responding to this Al instead of beating your drum of negativity, or do you hate facts instead of opinions:
247 Rankings:
https://247sports.com/Season/2018-Football/RecruitRankings?InstitutionGroup=highschool&State=NJ
Daevon Robinson #8
Isaih Pacheco #9
Eddie Lewis is #17
And don't forget that Artur Sitkowski is a New Jersey recruit. He should not be listed under Florida. Under 247 rankings he would be the #10 or 11 recruit in the State of NJ.
Rivals:
You do realize that the #10 ranked kid in the Rivals NJ list is a 5.7, and so are Robinson and Sitkowski? Rutgers also picked up Lacewell from Staten Island, another 5.7, and #4 in the State of New York.
But you don't seem to like or even acknowledge these facts because they make Ash look good and you are too busy pissing over your own inflated opinion.
The reasons for me making such points is that we are dealing with an entirely different animal in the BIG. I have many of the concerns you do. However, within conference, we are, for the most part, after the same recruits as the other schools.
Moving on to the field, both sides of said competitors are now filled with 4* and 5* recruits, which RU just lost. At this level, stars do matter. Flaws are magnified bigger than ever. OSU and PSU got 38 4* and 5* star recruits, just this cycle. It is very difficult to compete with that. Thus, the lopsided scores prevail and perception is weakened.
While unfortunate, 4 losses can almost certainly be penciled in right off the bat. The perception of those who don't follow or are ocassional fans of RU football see the record. While the facilities are much improved since the 2000s, they are still nowhere near these 4 schools. The bottom line, is that RU can be a tough sell in the BIG, while not so much in the big east 2.0/AAC; different players, different opponents, different recruiting areas.
It basically comes down to this, and progresses further into all areas: If I am a national recruit's parent, and i barely know of RU football aside from its recent bad history on/off the field, would you take a gamble by committing there? Or go to a program that has a good track record of winning and developing players? Because this is what we have seen thus far. At this level in the BIG, national recruits are the norm, not the exception it was in the big east 2.0 or AAC.
This is why it will take 5-10 years. This includes getting higher 3* and occasional 4* talent (which we are starting to do). Beating the teams we should, competing and eventually consistently beating lower and mid tier. BIG teams (starting to). This breeds a winning culture and heightened positive external perception. Leads to higher exposure and buzz. Program moves along. Gets even better recruits, more wins, more competitive with the top tier BIG. This is the 5-10 year model.
Last edited:
I agree, we shouldn't be wasting time recruiting Ohio. There are a cluster of FBS programs throughout that state and the surrounding area. Top Ohio kids have plenty of options if they want to play in the B1G that are closer to home and don't get slaughtered by OSU every year. What Ohio kid wants to go back to his home state and play in front of family and friends knowing that his team is likely to get spanked.
I love the Jersey recruits. would have loved to have more of them. way too few, imo.
But you guys are crying about lack of Top 10/Top 15 recruits.
We got 3 top 10 players according to 247 (including Sitkowski), and Lacewell is a Staten Island resident, which is practically NJ-- that's 4 top 10. If you don't want to include Sitkowski as NJ, then he is Florida, so you have a Florida kid.
Nothing satisfies some of you people.
Give us a competent quarterback and WRs and we won't have 4 guaranteed losses. We beat Michigan in 2014 and should have beaten PSU. Haven't adequately replaced Nova yet.
I ain’t going back and counting but Id bet it’s more than 2. Al mixes good points with bulls*** and like I said above, he totally changed his tune now with Schiano’s early recruiting (giving NY and Florida the credit they deserve). This entire thread’s premise is “Ash’s vision is unclear”; I say that’s bulls***. Hell, Al originally tried to argue Flood had ‘more vision’; I guess copying what Schiano did on paper while driving the program into a bridge embankment constitutes ‘vision’. If the thread was titled, “Ash’s vision is missing the mark”, again, DIFFERENT STORY...but that’s not the case because Al just likes to stir the pot (now he knows Leonard was a superstar from his senior year of HS and what happened with Nate “doesn’t matter”. Gimmie a f’n break.)
...and perhaps the biggest point of all- this is all 20/20 hindsight. Al wants to know who the ‘next Leonard is’; well, why don’t you actually let season 3 play out first?
My (and many others) point is, ‘why not give Ash an honest chance without trying to tear him down?’ Because he took away ‘Chop’? Now I actually think that was wrong myself, but Ash hasn’t embarrassed us by going to Princeton in disguise or writing one of the dumbest emails I’ve ever heard of in my life, and as far as I know he’s not on pace to land us on NCAA probation. If I gave the guy who did all that a chance, I think I owe Ash at least as much.
Joe P.
Last edited:
The focus on Ohio and Georgia were wastes of time IMO. We have no real connection to either area and don’t win enough yet to really draw kids from there against the usual suspects. That was one area where I really questioned Ash’s decisions and was thinking “he’s off the mark here”.
Joe P.
Pretty sure both Michigan and PSU are expected to be much better in 2018 compared to 2014. Other than that, it is a valid point.
Translation:
Hat is also a helmet especially on a football board
Ring can be a shape made by your hand to put your hat in
Honestly, we are a semblance of an offense away from marked improvement of w/l record. Defense will be a strength this year, but it can only carry the team so much until it feels like a futile attempt with an almost non existent offense. Special teams was almost as valuable as the offense this past season, which is not a good thing when the mean for FBS ppg is around 31, up nearly 10 points from the year 2000. The old saying that, “offense wins games, defense wins championships,” is now in reverse.
Last edited:
Well look at the excuses an idiotic statements here. this isn't about Al but a culture that makes excuses for mediocrity
Im concerned about the small number of Jersey recruits in this years class, even if you include AS. 5 recruits from NJ is way too few, Imo. Jersey typically produces roughly around 55-70 Div I recruits, and we should be able to get 8-10 of them. Instead, we took players from NY, where the quality of HS football isn't as good.
Boston College has almost as many NJ recruits as we do. We did not do a good job recruiting NJ in 2018, but we are off to a good start for 2019, and should do better with Nunz Onboard. Looking forward to seeing what the results are.
I'm not sure I'm ready to call the defense a strength, though LBers and DBs should be better thanks to better depth and talent, which Ash has been able to replenish. Defensive Line is thin, and will be a big question mark, losing Turay, who should be NFL caliber and Joseph who should get a chance at the next level. I liked what I saw from Wilkins, Bateky, Turner, Previlon, and Lumor. They seem to be getting better each year. But we'll be counting on host of DL newcomers for quality contributions. We shall see...
The guy is saying we have four guaranteed losses for the forseeable future, which is why it will take 5-10 years to win. lol
I'm saying as long a we find a quarterback, that won't be the case. We get ourselves a quarterback and wrs mature, we'll be much better in 2019 than we were in 2014. In year 2 of the McNulty offense, everything should be ready to click.
What do you mean, not true. Off course its true. I pointed out earlier that Schiano's recruiting strategy always was the state of rutgers and florida. Davon Clark, Ryan Neill, Rikki Cook and Brad Cunningham were Top NJ recruits Schiano landed in his first class.
If Ash starts recruiting better and winning we will all magically see and understand his Vision for Rutgers or we just won't care what it is . We wouldn't have a huge thread on this if he actually was getting the top New Jersey recruits to buy in and sign with us. As long as we win, no one will give two shits what his Vision is. Just win baby!
