Wimsatt will be our Starting Quarterback next year
- Thread starter rutgersal
- Start date
- Status
% Int.
2011 51.1 9
2012 57.0 16
2013 54.5 14
2014 57.2 12
Gary's completions % ranged in a 6% window over his career even with the benefit of the Fridge. If we had the Fridge I might have different expectations.
I’ll go one step farther. What if GS is @Shelby65?
It could all be a fiendish double-bluff intended to build support among the fanbase by making all kinds of ridiculously over-the-top attacks on GS causing everyone to invoke a bit of rationality which, in large enough numbers, can easily be mistaken as widespread support. 🤯
😂
Simon is the baseline of what I think we can realistically land from the portal, unless we land a moonshot like McCord, who is unlikely, but hey, we might give it the college try. So I’m not opposed to bringing someone in.
But do I think Schiano will bring someone in to challenge Wimsatt’s job? No, I don’t. What you don’t seem to understand is Schiano’s defensive mindset. He wants minimal turnovers and he wants to run the ball to protect his defense. He is content to win 3-0, 6-3, 10-7, 13-6, 14-7 rock fights. In fact, he’d be happy as a clam. Gavin fits perfectly, what Schiano wants in a Qb. minimal passing, running the ball, and minimizing turnovers.
I met Noah’s family at the Michigan Game, great people, and deeply respect what he accomplished here. Noah brought us from awful to reasonably competitive, despite his limitations. He played with great heart and was an effective leader. That said, he did have limitations. He didn’t have much of a long ball and he wasn’t as proficient a rusher. The facts bear that out. Noah couldn't make the NFL throws that Gavin sometimes makes.
But I salute what Noah accomplished here. Had Noah started all last year, we would have been bowling. Noah took us from awful to reasonably competitive. Gavin is taking us from reasonably Competitive to Bowlbound, a significant milestone that should not be discounted. I predict Schiano will double - down on Gavin next year, as the starter unless we land a moonshot. And if we do get a QB, it will be some schlub who will hold the clipboard. I think the freshmen will have a better chance of usurping Gavin, than some transfer. Ajani complements Gavin nicely, in that he throws accurately. AJ just looks like the total package to me, and could be our best ever QB recruit. So if we don't bring in a transfer, its not the end of the world for me.
You keep mentioning Schiano dying on a hill. I don't think anyone else's job is more secure. The worse thing that can happen is, Gavin doesn't make any progress, we go 4-8, and we start a different QB in '25. Most likely, we get our at least 6 wins, and Gavin is the guy for '25.
The passing game is not a priority for us. Schiano has said we're not going to be a program that throws the ball all over the place. We're going to run the ball and play tough defense, and that's how we're going to win games. The USCs and Washingtons are obviously off limits. But everyone else in the conference is fair game. Get 6 wins, and continue to recruit, recruit, recruit. That's where we're at.
Well, I’ve been a Schiano supporter and didn’t think he should be terminate like the majority of fans the first time around. He will be fired in 3-4 years with his run/ defense mind set and I would be pushing for it. 6 wins will be his upper limit and it won’t be acceptable to most fans. Almost all Big Ten teams have good to great defense but they have good passing QB and good running game. If you noticed, all the new Big Ten coaches hired are pass oriented. Good QB don’t want to be on a running team and that‘s why the next coach needs to be an offensive pass coach who can recruit a QB and receivers. We’ll have the defensive players that Schiano recruited for a good defense.
Last edited:
Main reason: prior commitment
Second reason: any 'mediocre, uninspiring versions of Vedral with no hope of a fair competition wouldn't come here anyway.
Point is, between not bringing in a QB the year after GW, by not having a real QB1 competition last year, and not even allowing Simon another drive after this UW touchdown drive when GW got drilled and was playing poorly, it's no secret that this isn't a place to come to have a real opportunity to play.
The biggest YoY jumps are all circumstances where the QB didn’t have enough attempts to make a reasonable assessment. Laviano only threw 28 pass attempts the year he had a low percentage. Hart and Teel didn’t have that many attempts as frosh either. Around 100 or so. For perspective - Gavin threw 145 passes in 2022.
The bottom line is it would be a big jump for him to go up even 5% to say 53%. Only 9 QBs with over 100 attempts have worse than a 53% completion rate this season. His accuracy numbers aren’t just poor. They are dreadful.
You are arguing words. Sure he CAN make those throws. But he is so inconsistent that he's an incompetent qb. If you are in your second or third year of college at the qb position, and you are that inconsistent at the easy throws, it ain't happening. Dude has a strong arm and runs fast (in a straight direction) and it tough....but the inconsistency is horrific at all 3 levels and in all directions. Whatever words we want to use, he's not a competent quarterback.
We
If Helen Keller threw 100 screen passes, at least a few would be caught. It’s not enough just to be able to make throws. Consistency is what counts and in that sense, she wouldn’t be that far behind GW in passing rankings.
You know, I normally don't advocate for violence, but I confess that there's a part of me that would enjoy watching you try to explain, to a very drunk Wimsatt after a loss, that he's no better than a deaf, dumb, and blind girl at playing QB. 😂
First, by all accounts she could speak (not dumb). Second, assuming she'd be last in the rankings, how many spots higher would GW be ? One ? Two ?
False equivalence. Last in the rankings is vastly better than a lifelong blind person will be at playing QB in the Big Ten.
Again, you're waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over the top with your criticisms. Which robs you of any credibility.
Although it's an internet forum, so credibility is a pretty meaningless currency. Entertainability, OTOH, is very important. And you got that going for you. 🙂
R
not really. rankings are rankings and have meaning. Of course the component formulae are subjective, but that’s not the point (unless you also discredit RU’s #15 public u ranking).
I feel IQ points draining out of my feet as I write this, but dude, Hellen Keller, as starting QB, would almost certainly not complete a single pass in 12 games in the Big Ten. She also would not gain a single yard rushing. She also wouldn't be able to make any reads of the defense, or see the signals from the sideline, or survive her very first sack.
Comparing GW to Hellen Keller as QBs is like me taking the 10 people with highest IQs in history and then ranking you against them by saying a Rutabaga would rank one place below you because a Rutabaga would be correct almost as often as you are here, statistically speaking.
I don't know about you. But the 10 high-IQ dudes would immediately understand that I'd made a totally meaningless statement intended only to be deeply insulting. And that it's not a valid or fair comparison nor a valid or fair assessment of your abilities.
Dude, of course I know good ‘ol Helen would be ridiculously unable to do anything athletic at any level. I’m not ‘Rutgers Al’ level stupid.
But if the lowest ranked person at something moves up a spot due the above silly hypothetical, it is true that the former ‘last’ is only one above the new last.
How about this. You would be the new last, with presumably less a talent gap than between GW and HK. Does it offend you by me saying he’d be just one rank spot ahead ? Is that better ?
But if the lowest ranked person at something moves up a spot due the above silly hypothetical, it is true that the former ‘last’ is only one above the new last.
How about this. You would be the new last, with presumably less a talent gap than between GW and HK. Does it offend you by me saying he’d be just one rank spot ahead ? Is that better ?
I rarely defend Shelby but that’s not his point. Without pressure, thousands upon thousands of high school QBs successfully complete simple lateral and screen passes (I’m taking about when they have all day to throw) at a high rate - at least 8 out of 10. These are guys who won’t have a prayer of sniffing D1 offers. Being able to do this doesn’t make you a D1 player. Not by a long shot.
These throws should be close to automatic. It’s a glaring weakness that Gavin misses these types of throws more than he makes them.
A
That was 22 years ago and a completely different time and offense. Last time I checked Rutgers isn’t running the option and there a reason Nebraska moved on from it. The comparison is ridiculous.
If HK and GW are the same standard deviations below the normative score, the difference isn't really notable as much as the cutoff (number of deviations). Just like the IQ score.
I d agree the comparison sounds outrageous and absurd but works as intended
I d agree the comparison sounds outrageous and absurd but works as intended
Helen Keller is blind so I think that’s a reach. My example (an athletic 4th or 5th grader) is better. I watch the kids throw the football after school. Uncontested, most of them hit the short route throws routinely. Now I’m sure they wouldn’t always nail it in a tackle context with just the fear of the DL breaking through and getting to them - they wouldn’t have the right footwork and would throw off balance - but I get what Shelby suggested in concept. Once in a while, like Gavin, they would connect with a nearby receiver aiming the ball in their direction. The rate that Gavin misfires these is truly unfathomable for a D1 QB. That’s the bottom line.
He'd write a rock opera about it. With apologies to Peter Townshend he'd call it "Gavin" and the top song would go "That deaf, dumb and blind kid sure plays a mean foot-ball."
Yours is definitely a better example but just like the IQ, we would be looking at a bell curve. The difference in scores at the very top or bottom aren't highlighted as much as the inclusion there. HK would likely be a score of 0 barring a miracle but there would be a few unlucky players lumped in that last deviation or in the one immediately above.
Last edited:
Rutgers Al isn't at all stupid. Again, this is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over the top criticism.
And none of us are without faults. Making fun of each other is one thing, but just crassly insulting people is lame. If you don't like what he writes, don't read it.
And no, nothing you say will ever offend me.
All that’s kind of fancy analysis. The point I’m trying to make is simpler than that. Gavin has attempted enough of these throws to conclude that he’s not unlucky, he’s just bad at them. I’m convinced I’ve never observed a D1 QB who was worse than him at executing these without being pressured. And I watch a lot of football.
Doesn't matter what his point is. Until he learns to express it without ridiculous levels of hyperbolic criticism about things he lacks any credibility to judge, the point will be ignored by lots of people.
He could've said it in a more reasonable way like you did and then people could either agree or disagree or, like me, abstain from the "debate" altogether.
I usually abstain from judging/bashing players because (a) I have a good idea of just how much I don't know and so I don't feel qualified to judge, (b) I don't see any actual value in me judging QB play, (c) I mostly prefer to just be supportive 'cause why not, and (d) I'm pretty certain our lowliest walk-on QB is way better than I'd be right now, so it would feel very lame for me to be criticising any of them.
I'm not telling others how to be, just saying that's how I feel about it.
Also, my mom taught me that if I don't have something nice to say, not to say anything at all. She tried hard to raise me with some class (which mostly failed, but it's not her fault). I let her down regularly in this, but at least I try to constrain myself to criticizing people who are "present" and can defend themselves, or else I abstract the critique and let people decide for themselves if it applies to them or not (funny how many decide it does).
I admit that song clawed its way into my consciousness while writing that post. I originally just wrote "blind" but then the song asserted itself in my head and I amended it.
maybe it's not a mechanical issue at all but a sports psychology issue. Might explain the highlight reel throws a bit better than the mechanics explanation. He has the talent to make all the throws. Maybe this is what Coach means when he says "pressing".
You be you. Shelby will be Shelby. He doesn’t mince words or shy away from speaking ugly truths. GW is a terrible passer at this level. And if comparing him to Helen Keller hypothetically on a QB ranking scale where she replaces him as ‘last’ offends you, that’s your issue. In public life, some are good at what they do and some are not. Ain’t nothing wrong with calling it out.
Actually - he’s a terrible short passer. And he possesses no observable ability to adjust calls post snap. That right there is the negative scouting report. He’s an above average runner but not close to elite - very one dimensional runner - has to go straight to have success but he’s quick. He’s around average (at the FBS level) on pre-set play designs calling for longer pass execution. It’s just that most QBs pad their stats with the shorts which is why his numbers are so bad overall relative to the pack.
I would disagree. Almost all of his longer passes are out of bounds and they don’t ever let him throw over the middle. There’s nothing average about his passing ability at any distance. Nothing even near average. To be honest, since he is so often wildly inaccurate I think the good throws he occasionally makes are probably blind luck.
And back to Helen Keller….do you agree that some of his throws are so off-target that you wonder if his eyes are open ?
Btw…I know you want to defend Shelby much, much more but instead choose to join the majority crowd to avoid criticism. Safety in numbers, right ?? Try speaking the truth. It’s freeing !!!
Try again. Most of the time I just think your takes are wrong - never mind offensive. The ones on Caleb were the worst of all (but this is the football forum so never mind that).
In this case, I appreciate fans trying to be optimistic about Gavin, but I just don’t see an argument in favor of not bringing in someone else with proven experience to compete with him for the starting role.
So yeah I agree with you in this one, limited circumstance (blind analogy not withstanding). We could literally pick the name out of a hat of any other FBS QB who took meaningful snaps and guarantee their completion rate would be a pretty material upgrade because to your point, our incumbent ranks dead last.
Shelby doesn't feel college (ahem, quasi-professional) sports commentary can be offensive without character attacks, which he doesn't do. "CFB Player X sucks" is fair game. "Player X is a stinking, pathetic loser who is an embarrassment to Rutgers" is not. I'm sure he said nothing of that sort about Caleb, and not even about Myles Johnson who was his main target re: team offense FAIL. What Shelby does remember saying about Caleb is that he took too many shots given his talent, and did so via his "I'm gonna get mine, I earned my showcasing" mentality that Pike and all other coaches are forced to accept these days. And the same can be said about Cliff then and now.
That being said, Shelby takes much more than as he gives re: personal attacks here from posters, but he pays it no mind. He doesn't keep score.
A better comparison would be Steve Sax. Steve was a second basemen I believe for the dodgers. could hit could field but he had problems throwing the ball to first base. Easiest throw in baseball. He never got over it and I may be wrong but I don't think Gavin will either.
- Status
