Zagoria says RU has reached out to Shaheen Holloway & Kenny Payne
- Thread starter slyker
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I mentioned Payne a few weeks ago as a candidate. Wonder if the press is just picking up info from these boards?
If they're reporting that someone was reached out to, that could easily come from any of that person's colleagues, agents or friends.
Wow people said they would be embarrassed by hiring Williams but hiring Holloway would be ten times worse in my opinion. Really an assistant on a midling Big East team, whose not even close to national name, from a school that has had almost no real success outside this year in many years.
Who has coach and recruited for 10 years. I don't want Holloway, but Jay Williams is ridiculous.
Holloway is an interesting choice. Good recruiter that knows NJ. He would have to have an experienced lead associate though...Green Rice good choice of Blaney
If half the people Hobbs is supposedly reaching out to is true, I have this bit of advice:
I like shaheen over Williams but these types of names along with Boyle suggest we are now looking at a high risk high return strategy. Perhaps this is being forced on us by a lack of interest from more proven commodities. Still amazed at what we were willing to pay Hurley and that was not enough. Getting to the point where I need to stop reading these threads and just wait and see what happens.
Jay Williams was a brilliant move IMHO. It keeps E$PN from bad mouthing the job at every opportunity, because one of theirs was interviewed. I think Hobbs played Hurley too, and at the same time, satisfied the hire Hurley folks with a legitimate offer/Rutgers commit to success. This commitment to success is bound to be noted by other coaching targets. IHWT.
It was said that Hurley was close to a deal. Then Hobbs says "Oh, by the way. My #2 is Kevin Boyle." Hurley's head exploded, and he fled to Rhode Island.
It was said that Hurley was close to a deal. Then Hobbs says "Oh, by the way. My #2 is Kevin Boyle." Hurley's head exploded, and he fled to Rhode Island.
I posted this in the other thread but think it applies here too.
I know people keep pointing to Ash as a blueprint for possible clues of who he might turn to for the basketball hire. In the end maybe it ends up being an assistant but I don't think basketball coach/football coach hirings in college are similar. It's not often you see assistants take on big head jobs from an assistant role in basketball, where as you can see coordinators do it all the time in football.
In football you know there's some "executive" action and running of one side of the ball as a coordinator but in basketball I don't know how readily defined an assistant's role is from one program to the next. Outside of the Duke assistants Wojo, Collins, Dawkins I can't think of too many others who took over top programs from the assistant role. There may be a few but I don't think it's as common an occurrence as it is in football.
To me I think Willard is the blueprint for a possible clue of what direction he might go. A guy who had been a long time assistant to a big name coach (Pitino) and had some success as a HC running a lower level program. If you look at that then I think Dooley (Self) and Masiello (Pitino) are good possibilities. Of course he could stray from that a little with a guy like Pikiell who has less experience working under a big name (Calhoun) and success with his own program but still fits that general blueprint. At the very least, I still think likely to be someone with HC experience. I'd expect Hobbs to do his due diligence and interview assistants but the guy will likely have to wow him to get the job and pass by guys already with HC experience (especially ones who have worked along side big coaches).
I know people keep pointing to Ash as a blueprint for possible clues of who he might turn to for the basketball hire. In the end maybe it ends up being an assistant but I don't think basketball coach/football coach hirings in college are similar. It's not often you see assistants take on big head jobs from an assistant role in basketball, where as you can see coordinators do it all the time in football.
In football you know there's some "executive" action and running of one side of the ball as a coordinator but in basketball I don't know how readily defined an assistant's role is from one program to the next. Outside of the Duke assistants Wojo, Collins, Dawkins I can't think of too many others who took over top programs from the assistant role. There may be a few but I don't think it's as common an occurrence as it is in football.
To me I think Willard is the blueprint for a possible clue of what direction he might go. A guy who had been a long time assistant to a big name coach (Pitino) and had some success as a HC running a lower level program. If you look at that then I think Dooley (Self) and Masiello (Pitino) are good possibilities. Of course he could stray from that a little with a guy like Pikiell who has less experience working under a big name (Calhoun) and success with his own program but still fits that general blueprint. At the very least, I still think likely to be someone with HC experience. I'd expect Hobbs to do his due diligence and interview assistants but the guy will likely have to wow him to get the job and pass by guys already with HC experience (especially ones who have worked along side big coaches).
Kenny Payne would follow the Ash blueprint, as far as getting the best non HC from an ultra elite program. Also, he would be someone who is hungry with something to prove who knows what it takes to get it done.
Chris Collins (Northwestern), Tom Izzo (Michigan State), Tommy Amaker (Seton Hall), Steve Wojciechowski (Marquette), Kevin Ollie (UConn), Roy Williams (Kansas)
The list goes on. I can name plenty of very successful HC's who went right from being an assistant to being a head coach at a high major school.
The list goes on. I can name plenty of very successful HC's who went right from being an assistant to being a head coach at a high major school.
Problem is, as stated by others, is we went that route with Fred hill. He was connects as anyone in NJ
So is Holloway. The SHU fans rave about his recruiting, relationship with players and player development. He knows the area. People in the area (e.g coaches) know him
I've mentioned this before but I should have qualified it like I did in the past and said leaving as an assistant to go takevover another program not being elevated in their current one. I do think there's a difference taking over a program your familiar with and many times likely from a coach who has left behind probably a decent quality program because they've either retired or left to a a better place. So it's not usually a big rebuild either. Roy Williams is another one I hadn't thought of but there aren't many that go outside the program. Amaker (another Duke guy) is one too with mixed results at the high majors. That's 5 and Roy Williams and Amaker were quite awhile ago. It's not like coordinators in football where it happens frequently.
The deal is done and bearing any unforeseen weird happenings our new coach will be announced Friday or Saturday Steve Pikiell out of Stone Brook WHY STEVE? one he is a former UConn player/coach (No that is the bad joke part) the 10 reasons at SB listed below
2005–06 Stony Brook 4–24 2–14 9th
2006–07 Stony Brook 9–20 4–12 9th
2007–08 Stony Brook 7–23 3–13 8th
2008–09 Stony Brook 16–14 8–8 5th
2009–10 Stony Brook 22–10 13–3 1st NIT 1st Round
2010–11 Stony Brook 15–17 8–8 5th
2011–12 Stony Brook 22–10 14–2 1st NIT 1st Round
2012–13 Stony Brook 25–8 14–2 1st NIT 2nd Round
2013–14 Stony Brook 23–11 13–3 2nd CBI 1st Round
2014–15 Stony Brook 23–12 12–4 T–2nd CBI 1st Round
2015–16 Stony Brook 24–6 14–2 1st
Not to shabby. and is playing tonight at ~9:30
2005–06 Stony Brook 4–24 2–14 9th
2006–07 Stony Brook 9–20 4–12 9th
2007–08 Stony Brook 7–23 3–13 8th
2008–09 Stony Brook 16–14 8–8 5th
2009–10 Stony Brook 22–10 13–3 1st NIT 1st Round
2010–11 Stony Brook 15–17 8–8 5th
2011–12 Stony Brook 22–10 14–2 1st NIT 1st Round
2012–13 Stony Brook 25–8 14–2 1st NIT 2nd Round
2013–14 Stony Brook 23–11 13–3 2nd CBI 1st Round
2014–15 Stony Brook 23–12 12–4 T–2nd CBI 1st Round
2015–16 Stony Brook 24–6 14–2 1st
Not to shabby. and is playing tonight at ~9:30
Johnny Dawkins (Stanford), Leonard Hamilton (Okla State), Frank Martin (Kansas State), Jaime Dixon (Pitt),.....
I'm really not trying to argue your point I just think "good basketball coaches" can be found in a variety of places. Mid majors, low majors, and on the benches as assistants at high major schools.
I'm just not sure being the HC at Stony Brook (for example) means "you are better" than if you have been sitting next to Calipari at Kentucky for half a decade (for example). Now, a high school HC or a person who has never been on the bench before I would certainly have more hesitation. But HC at a low/mid major versus an assistant at a high major program? Not sure I can draw an opinion that one experience is more preferable/vauable than the other.
Frank Martin and Jamie Dixon were internal promotions. Dawkins (another Duke guy), I mentioned. Hamilton is reaching back into the 80s, before my time as I'm not that old. Knew about Williams and Kansas just forgot him. Really it seems like Duke assistants are the ones with any frequency that get hired as outsiders and not many others. Williams and Hamilton are the other 2 but those were decades ago.
When it came to hiring a football coach, many on the boards were wanting someone with HC experience. Most of the candidates I preferred were coordinators and I had not a single qualm or worry about it because I could point tons of coordinators with varying levels of success in college football and I didn't have to reach back decades or stick to one particular coaches tree to do it. It's a frequent occurrence in football and like I said in football you can readily define what the coordinators role on the team is, for basketball it's not so readily apparent.
I agree with you that a good coach and come from anywhere, which is why I've said I'm not discouraged by hiring low mid major coaches as some others here are. Just like coordinators in football I can rattle off a list of coaches from low mid majors that have varying degrees of success when they take the step up. It's doesn't seem as easy to do for assistants going outside their current programs on the high major level. Frankly, I can't think of a ton of examples and that's probably the issue. So I'm open to it but I'm a little more apprehensive of going to the assistant bucket for a coach coming in from outside the program because I can't point to many examples. So if we go that route so be it, I just think in basketball having HC experience on some level low mid major or higher is more important IMO than it is in football.
Dooley//Cluess are my top choices from the realistic options but names like Pikiell, Masiello etc.. are perfectly fine with me. If we hire an assistant then we hire an assistant so be it and we'll move on from there.
agree with Rutgersguy on alot of this..that being said we are looking at assistant because the pool of head coaches that we could get is small.
I would take Brandin Knight over Shaheen though
and are people really still believing that Hobbs played Hurley. I realize people want to spew all the hate on the Hurleys and its understandable but dont make up a story that makes you feel better. If Hurley said yes, he would be our coach now and the search would be over...simple as that.
I would take Brandin Knight over Shaheen though
and are people really still believing that Hobbs played Hurley. I realize people want to spew all the hate on the Hurleys and its understandable but dont make up a story that makes you feel better. If Hurley said yes, he would be our coach now and the search would be over...simple as that.
you need to be in the room for interviews to have confidence saying 1 assistant is better than another. Even guys like Hurley.
Could be Dooley too if it's this weekend as his matchup is 1 vs. 16 against UNC so likely he'll be out. The only thing is his name hasn't gotten as much play in the media other than just passing mention on a list. Pikiell, Cluess have usually been mentioned as candidates on the next level after Lonergan. I guess that also depends on how reliable you think the local media info is as well.
As posted on other thread: Stony Brook likely to get creamed by Kentucky and that will lead to a very tough introduction for Pikiell here assuming this story is any way legit. 11 seasons at Stony B and not having moved up by now is a red flag for me.
I live in Kentucky and they really scout their opponents. The fact that radio talk show are saying that Stony Brook will be losing their coach to Rutgers after Kentucky beats them is encouraging for us.
there is no given that Kentucky beats Stony Brook, its a flawed Kentucky team. A Pickiel win tonight and not just RU will be looking at him
Not looking to start an argument, but why hasn't Pikiell moved on from Stony B in 11 years?
Well the other thread had this comment as well and someone counterbalanced with Bo Ryan at one of the low level Wisconsin school for a long time. That was actually my first thought as well when that point was brought up. I think Bruce Pearl was at a low level school for quite awhile too before he stepped up to higher mid major. Pikiell's mentor Calhoun was at Northeastern for a ton of time before UConn. Larranaga a ton of time at George Mason and a school before that too IIRC so who knows the reasons really. I'm sure there are others.
I think Pikiell maybe had to make a NCAA before he got out there more and he's had some close calls but this year he got over the hump. In a 1 bid league, a great regular season but small slip up in the conference tourney kills your profile.
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Different people, as others have pointed out, there have been assistant coaches who were hired at major programs and were successful.
