OT: Lot of smoke about Clemson leaving ACC

[JayDogSmooth]

Saw a few recent tweets about it from Marc Ryan & Jason Staples

Can’t speak about Ryan as I’m not familiar with him, but Staples is legit

Interesting to see if / how they found way out of GOR / multiple programs working together to negiotiate the exit


*** an announcement in October is what I read

 

[RUNVA]

If enough teams leave plus the teams they added from the PAC12 they will have to change their name from ACC to A&P.

 

[essexknight]

After the ACC imploded the old Big East, it would be great to watch that conference get degraded with mass defections. It’s clear that Clemson and FSU want out. The GOR is probably the only thing thing keeping them there at this point.

 

[JayDogSmooth]

After the ACC imploded the old Big East, it would be great to watch that conference get degraded with mass defections. It’s clear that Clemson and FSU want out. The GOR is probably the only thing thing keeping them there at this point.

They’re both facing about a $35-40 million deficit from conference distributions versus the SEC and Big 10.

The GOR is literally the only thing keeping them there as of now.

 

[krup]

The argument I read, but it was light on details, claims that adding schools to the conference somehow made the GOR legally vulnerable.

The evidence cited was that the B12 (which has the GOR the ACC duplicated) all of sudden announced somewhat improved terms for OU’s and Texas’ last year, after they just expanded.

 

[RuSnp]

They’re both facing about a $35-40 million deficit from conference distributions versus the SEC and Big 10.

The GOR is literally the only thing keeping them there as of now.

I think another motivating factor is recruiting. Once heavyweights like Clemson hear from enough recruits that they want to play in the 'best leagues' like the SEC or the BIG the wheels go in motion to leave.

 

[JayDogSmooth]

The argument I read, but it was light on details, claims that adding schools to the conference somehow made the GOR legally vulnerable.

The evidence cited was that the B12 (which has the GOR the ACC duplicated) all of sudden announced somewhat improved terms for OU’s and Texas’ last year, after they just expanded.

Yeah I’m not sure what their basis is, but Clemson’s been pretty quiet for the most part

Pleasantly surprised they’re getting more vocal about it

 

[rucoe89]

2032 - no more conferences. Just one 24 to 32 team conference that takes 95% of the media revenue.

Sincerely,
Nostradamus

 

[Knight Shift]

Saw a few recent tweets about it from Marc Ryan & Jason Staples

Can’t speak about Ryan as I’m not familiar with him, but Staples is legit

Interesting to see if / how they found way out of GOR / multiple programs working together to negiotiate the exit


*** an announcement in October is what I read

With the way they are playing, they might not be allowed in the AAC.

 

[WhiteBus]

The argument I read, but it was light on details, claims that adding schools to the conference somehow made the GOR legally vulnerable.

The evidence cited was that the B12 (which has the GOR the ACC duplicated) all of sudden announced somewhat improved terms for OU’s and Texas’ last year, after they just expanded.

There is no improvement for Texas and OU. The GOR for those two stay with the Big 12 for the last year. The just leave a year early and the SEC will cover them for a season I guess.

 

[JayDogSmooth]

With the way they are playing, they might not be allowed in the AAC.

They’re not playing well, and they still almost beat FSU last week, that would’ve been a bad loss for the Noles

Very surprised Dabo hasn’t adapted to NIL and using the portal, I think the fan base and particularly IPTAY will force him to change his ways starting next year

 

[kupuna133]

The argument I read, but it was light on details, claims that adding schools to the conference somehow made the GOR legally vulnerable.

The evidence cited was that the B12 (which has the GOR the ACC duplicated) all of sudden announced somewhat improved terms for OU’s and Texas’ last year, after they just expanded.

Yea read something similar last year but haven’t seen it lately. Was the reason given why the ACC wasn’t aggressively pursuing schools. Once they negotiate entry for a new school or contracts with ESPN etc would make the GOR susceptible to interpretation. Piercing the corporate (ACC)veil of the contract.

 

[MGSA99]

Come on Big Ten! I want to see Rutgers play in my backyard in Death Valley!

 

[krup]

2032 - no more conferences. Just one 24 to 32 team conference that takes 95% of the media revenue.

Sincerely,
Nostradamus

Not likely to happen because it would require ESPN and Fox colluding to happen by then.

 

[krup]

There is no improvement for Texas and OU. The GOR for those two stay with the Big 12 for the last year. The just leave a year early and the SEC will cover them for a season I guess.

It was just announced about a week ago.

Instead of paying exit fees, they are paying less by just foregoing this year’s revenue (they will be like SMU for a year).

https://www.cbssports.com/college-f...c-early-leave-big-12-ads-kind-of-dumbfounded/

 

[WhiteBus]

It was just announced about a week ago.

Instead of paying exit fees, they are paying less by just foregoing this year’s revenue (they will be like SMU for a year).

https://www.cbssports.com/college-f...c-early-leave-big-12-ads-kind-of-dumbfounded/

Yes I knew that. I was just saying how the GOR is still in place. Somebody mentioned that they were somehow getting around it legally. That's not true. What I heard that BIG 12 with GOR there was no exit fees. The GOR is the exit fee. I guess.

 

[JayDogSmooth]

Yes I knew that. I was just saying how the GOR is still in place. Somebody mentioned that they were somehow getting around it legally. That's not true. What I heard that BIG 12 with GOR there was no exit fees. The GOR is the exit fee. I guess.

Ingram Smith (has an FSU podcast and runs Battles End NIL) is pretty connected and level headed

Re the GOR, his quote was “whoever wrote it sleeps well at night” implying it’s nearly unbreakable

I have no idea how they’re going to break it, but my buddies in Tallahassee are very confident, and a Clemson friend who’s a big $ booster shares the same sentiment

 

[WhiteBus]

Ingram Smith (has an FSU podcast and runs Battles End NIL) is pretty connected and level headed

Re the GOR, his quote was “whoever wrote it sleeps well at night” implying it’s nearly unbreakable

I have no idea how they’re going to break it, but my buddies in Tallahassee are very confident, and a Clemson friend who’s a big $ booster shares the same sentiment

There is no way to break it if the conference is intact.. The conference gets the money not the schools.

 

[JayDogSmooth]

There is no way to break it if the conference is intact.. The conference gets the money not the schools.

Yeah that ls where I’m baffled how they’re going to get out of it

Maybe espn helps broker a deal to SEC, maybe b10 gets them but doesn’t broadcast certain games

High level stuff with a lot of $ at stake

 

[WhiteBus]

Yeah that ls where I’m baffled how they’re going to get out of it

Maybe espn helps broker a deal to SEC, maybe b10 gets them but doesn’t broadcast certain games

High level stuff with a lot of $ at stake

ESPN is basically broke so they can't help out $ wise.

 

[TDIrish27]

There is no way to break it if the conference is intact.. The conference gets the money not the schools.

 

[TDIrish27]

Correct

 

[T2Kplus20]

Correct

Exit fee is covered by donors, so it all comes down to lawyers (which means, there is always a compromise). Why hold on to a program that doesn't want to be in the conference and publicly bitches about it sucking compared to the 2 big boys? Not a healthy dynamics.

The only way out for the ACC is to increase payouts to the top conference programs.

 

[Will Scarlet]

Yea read something similar last year but haven’t seen it lately. Was the reason given why the ACC wasn’t aggressively pursuing schools. Once they negotiate entry for a new school or contracts with ESPN etc would make the GOR susceptible to interpretation. Piercing the veil of the contract.

Here's, a thought (and, it's total speculation). Assuming this is a real story, maybe Clemson's argument is premised on the idea that by adding Stanford, Cal and SMU, the ACC devalued its brand, rendering its current GOR unreasonably punitive or possibly even unenforceable. This might explain why Clemson, FSU and UNC (the three schools most vocal about their desire to leave the ACC) really voted "no" on the additions, despite the fact that they were presumably added precisely because they would temporarily increase revenue for the current members (thereby addressing the primary grievance with the conference).

Had Clemson, FSU and UNC voted in favor of expansion, it would have undermined any claim that adding schools devalued the conference over the long term (and the ACC's contract with ESPN runs until 2036), despite any short term increase in revenue. Anyone voting "yes" would have been complicit. By opposing expansion, they're in a far better position to claim that their fellow conference members made a mistake to the financial detriment of all, but justifying more favorable terms for conference departure for those voting "no."

How funny would it be to find-out that Clemson, FSU and UNC not only didn't truly oppose expansion, but secretly welcomed it for the opportunity that it could create to attack the GOR. Under such a scenario, they just couldn't publicly advocate for expansion themselves. Instead, they had to wait for some dupe to step-in as an advocate for adding schools, let other conference members go along for the ride and vote against what they really wanted all along. Of course, in this scenario the dupe would be Notre Dame, a school with a proven ability to string-along fellow institutions to their eventual detriment.

No single school had a greater hand in the ultimate demise of the Big East than ND (when they bolted for the ACC, any remaining hope was lost). And, of course, it was the ACC's poaching of Miami. VT and BCU from the Big East that precipitated all this winner-take-all conference realignment. Nothing would make me happier to find that ND unwittingly miscalculated in aggressively pushing for the addition of Stanford, Cal and SMU only to find that it was the trigger to destroy the ACC as we know it. What goes around, comes around.

 

[WhiteBus]

Exit fee is covered by donors, so it all comes down to lawyers (which means, there is always a compromise). Why hold on to a program that doesn't want to be in the conference and publicly bitches about it sucking compared to the 2 big boys? Not a healthy dynamics.

The only way out for the ACC is to increase payouts to the top conference programs.

There are no exit fees. The Big 12 was trying to penalize the two by not paying them this year. Lawyers got involved on both sides and figured out that holding back money in the last year they are actually in the Big 12 is essentially illegal.

 

[JayDogSmooth]

There are no exit fees. The Big 12 was trying to penalize the two by not paying them this year. Lawyers got involved on both sides and figured out that holding back money in the last year they are actually in the Big 12 is essentially illegal.

It’s been reported the ACC’s exit fee is ~120 million

 

[rucoe89]

Not likely to happen because it would require ESPN and Fox colluding to happen by then.

Not really. The schools form a new conference and negotiate with all networks.

 

[WhiteBus]

It’s been reported the ACC’s exit fee is ~120 million

Well we will see how that does. Sounds similar to what the Big 12 tried to do and failed. Your value to the conference is your GOR, simply that. If the new conference is fine taking on a team who's value is away games alone then they take them in before the conference contract expires.

 

[WhiteBus]

Not really. The schools form a new conference and negotiate with all networks.

There will be no new conferences. In case you missed it the number of conferences is shrinking.

 

[krup]

Yes I knew that. I was just saying how the GOR is still in place. Somebody mentioned that they were somehow getting around it legally. That's not true. What I heard that BIG 12 with GOR there was no exit fees. The GOR is the exit fee. I guess.

The point relevant to this thread is that previously it was believed they were paying exit fees totaling 150-160 million to leave early, and all of a sudden this week it came out that instead they are forfeiting their revenue share from the B12 this year, which is much lower.

The people who want the ACC to blow up are taking that as evidence the B12 realized they aren’t in as strong a position with the GOR as they thought, which matters to the ACC because they copied the B12 GOR for theirs.

 

[krup]

Here's, a thought (and, it's total speculation). Assuming this is a real story, maybe Clemson's argument is premised on the idea that by adding Stanford, Cal and SMU, the ACC devalued its brand, rendering its current GOR unreasonably punitive or possibly even unenforceable. This might explain why Clemson, FSU and UNC (the three schools most vocal about their desire to leave the ACC) really voted "no" on the additions, despite the fact that they were presumably added precisely because they would temporarily increase revenue for the current members (thereby addressing the primary grievance with the conference).

Had Clemson, FSU and UNC voted in favor of expansion, it would have undermined any claim that adding schools devalued the conference over the long term (and the ACC's contract with ESPN runs until 2036), despite any short term increase in revenue. Anyone voting "yes" would have been complicit. By opposing expansion, they're in a far better position to claim that their fellow conference members made a mistake to the financial detriment of all, but justifying more favorable terms for conference departure for those voting "no."

How funny would it be to find-out that Clemson, FSU and UNC not only didn't truly oppose expansion, but secretly welcomed it for the opportunity that it could create to attack the GOR. Under such a scenario, they just couldn't publicly advocate for expansion themselves. Instead, they had to wait for some dupe to step-in as an advocate for adding schools, let other conference members go along for the ride and vote against what they really wanted all along. Of course, in this scenario the dupe would be Notre Dame, a school with a proven ability to string-along fellow institutions to their eventual detriment.

No single school had a greater hand in the ultimate demise of the Big East than ND (when they bolted for the ACC, any remaining hope was lost). And, of course, it was the ACC's poaching of Miami. VT and BCU from the Big East that precipitated all this winner-take-all conference realignment. Nothing would make me happier to find that ND unwittingly miscalculated in aggressively pushing for the addition of Stanford, Cal and SMU only to find that it was the trigger to destroy the ACC as we know it. What goes around, comes around.

That argument actually makes some sense. If it took a unanimous vote to institute the GOR, and the conference added teams without a unanimous vote, a substantive change was made to the conference and a new vote on the GOR should be required.

I have no idea if it has any legal merit, but logically it makes sense.

 

[WhiteBus]

The point relevant to this thread is that previously it was believed they were paying exit fees totaling 150-160 million to leave early, and all of a sudden this week it came out that instead they are forfeiting their revenue share from the B12 this year, which is much lower.

The people who want the ACC to blow up are taking that as evidence the B12 realized they aren’t in as strong a position with the GOR as they thought, which matters to the ACC because they copied the B12 GOR for theirs.

I explained that already. The Big 12 was pulling a fast one. Trying not to pay them for actually playing in the Big 12. Can't happen. They gave notice and are entitled to there GOR value this year.

 

[yesrutgers01]

The thing is...as a complete know nothing...Clemson was just a good program until 2011 or so- then became pretty elite for a decade. Got a couple of championships and back to being a good program. This year- maybe showing some warts.
Asking as someone that really does not know- do they have the academics, research, land grant that usually follows the B1G?
Does the SEC see them as a big time program for the next decade if they are in the SEC vs their little sister?

I think they are a SEC fit much more than B1G.

 

[Knight Shift]

 

[Brisket and Bourbon]

Can’t we go through an actual season with out all this conference bullshit? That’s what the off season is for…wait till layer January FFS…

 

[rucoe89]

There will be no new conferences. In case you missed it the number of conferences is shrinking.

New conference may be a consolidated conference or a merged conference or a new conferences. To think otherwise would be naive. Money can make anything happen.

 

[50 yd line RR]

After the ACC imploded the old Big East, it would be great to watch that conference get degraded with mass defections. It’s clear that Clemson and FSU want out. The GOR is probably the only thing thing keeping them there at this point.

What sparked college football's realignment craze? Ex-Big Ten commissioner explains all

Delany reflects on what happened in the 1980s and '90s to spark one of college football's biggest waves of realignment.

theathletic.com

I used to think that was the case too. According to Jim Delaney, the beginning of the end came when the Big East voted no to adding Penn State. The whole regional balance of power with conferences changed and the BIG in 2 regions became more powerful/wealthy.
Money goes to money, and all the conference realignment games began.

 

[WhiteBus]

New conference may be a consolidated conference or a merged conference or a new conferences. To think otherwise would be naive. Money can make anything happen.

Money isn't going to create brand new conferences. There are no mergers, just acquisitions of failing conferences big media teams. There are 2 dominant conferences. Don't see that changing. The rest will gobble up the scraps left behind. What is happening isn't a building process, it's a complete tear down of the system. Nobody is going to invest in a new big time football conference.

 

[Myrtleknight]

What sparked college football's realignment craze? Ex-Big Ten commissioner explains all

Delany reflects on what happened in the 1980s and '90s to spark one of college football's biggest waves of realignment.

theathletic.com

I used to think that was the case too. According to Jim Delaney, the beginning of the end came when the Big East voted no to adding Penn State. The whole regional balance of power with conferences changed and the BIG in 2 regions became more powerful/wealthy.
Money goes to money, and all the conference realignment games began.

Interesting that Delaney thinks that too much expansion leaves the conferences susceptible to the precedent set in the ‘84 ruling against the NCAA.

 

[Leonard23]

LMAO. We've been hearing for years that some genius has a way to break the GOR, yet it hasn't happened in B12 or ACC. Until a school actually challenges it and succeeds, this is all nonsense.