During the BTN broadcast of the Rutgers-Illinois game yesterday, there was an ad --probably only South Jersey saw it -- for Paul VI High School, a leading Catholic high school in Haddon Township. (The mailing address is Haddonfield, but the school is not really in Haddonfield -- it's just that the post office considers Haddon Township part of Haddonfield because there's no post office in Haddon Township.) I was taken aback -- things must be really tough for the Catholic high schools if they feel that TV advertising is necessary. At least the high school must have enough money to afford the ad.
TV ad for a Catholic high school
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If you live in- and therefore pay taxes- in towns like Haddonfield, Cherry Hill, Voorhees, Moorestown etc, you may as well take advantage of the excellent public schools.
There are very few areas of NJ where going to private school makes sense. Basically the urban areas if your kid can't get into a magnet school of some kind.
There are very few areas of NJ where going to private school makes sense. Basically the urban areas if your kid can't get into a magnet school of some kind.
There's been no change in the quality of the public schools, yet Paul VI has prospered for a long time. Nor is it a question of private schools as a group . The difference probably is that fewer parents today care about their children being educated as Catholics or want the strict discipline (as compared to the public schools) that has traditionally gone with parochial schools.
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There's no question that each generation becomes less religious every day. I wonder what % of student body came from surrounding towns with great public schools and some not so great. Growing up in an area with mostly well thought of public schools, I never understood how Catholic schools sustained themselves. There were only a few "bad" ones in the area and they were a small minority.
An anecdote is not data, but a colleague of mine then living in Voorhees (which, as you say, has excellent schools) told his adolescent son, "I'll send you to Catholic high school if you continue to screw up." The kid did, and the colleague, true to his word, sent him to Paul VI. This is an example of a parent (who is Catholic by birth, but totally irreligious) wanting the discipline associated with Catholic schools. The kid turned out fine; he went into the Marines, served in Afghanistan, and is now doing great at Columbia University.
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I’m a Paul VI alum. I don’t think it’s a sign that times are tough (yet)….they’ve run local commercials on and off over the past 10 years. I remember one year they ran one during the super bowl (which I couldn’t believe)
Total Enrollment is still over 1,000 (co-ed), which is about 100 or so students less than when I graduated in 2007.
I do think at some point the catholic high schools are going to really start struggling. Most of the catholic grade schools have shuttered, and these were the feeder schools. About over 20 of my 30 grade school classmates went to Paul VI, and my grade school closed about 10 years ago.
IMO it’s also a status symbol for some parents to send their kids to some of the catholic schools, specifically the prep schools.
I currently live in Marlton (and right on the border of Mt. Laurel and Medford). The public schools in these townships are solid for South Jersey (Cherokee, Lenape and Shawnee) and the taxes are high.
I see kids in the area wearing Bishop Eustace, St. Augustine and St. Joe’s prep (Philly) gear. All 3 are prep schools and the latter two are probably 45-60 mins door to door for some of these kids from this area.
I think a large majority of kids in some of the best schools in South Jersey that you mention (Haddonfield, Moorestown, Cherry Hill and Voorhees) do go to public though.
Thanks for the info. I noticed the ad showed a fair number of girls, perhaps to emphasize that the school is co-ed. I know there are some single-sex Catholic high schools, such as St. Hubert's in Philadelphia.
By the way, there has been a continuing increase nation-wide in the number of kids in Jewish day schools, both Orthodox and non-Orthodox. Cherry Hill, for instance, has two Jewish day schools, one Orthodox (but not ultra-Orthodox) and the other non-Orthodox. I believe both are co-ed. Except for ultra-Orthodox schools, Jewish day schools combine Jewish and secular studies.
I attended a Jewish Day School from the time I was 2 years old through high school. My kids the exact same. My mom a teacher at one of the two schools for 40 years. My decision for my children was academically-based but also religiously-based. We live in Morris County, where there are many well-regarded public schools. But it was important for us that they learn about Judaism, Hebrew, Torah, etc.
Now, I had a friend that sent his children to a Catholic school in the area that has since closed. But his reason was less about religion and more about structure. Not saying this is evidence, just an anecdote to add to the conversation. At the same time, I’d think there is still a high instance of religious-based decision-making when choosing a Catholic school, especially in this state.
Now, I had a friend that sent his children to a Catholic school in the area that has since closed. But his reason was less about religion and more about structure. Not saying this is evidence, just an anecdote to add to the conversation. At the same time, I’d think there is still a high instance of religious-based decision-making when choosing a Catholic school, especially in this state.
My mom wanted me to take the test for Catholic school, but I flat out refused. Ironically my parents went to K-8 in a Catholic school and then demanded that my grandparents send them to public high school. I wanted no part in religious education. It was only when I started applying to law school that I realized most law schools at Catholic schools generally kept religion out. But I don't think it's that way K-College.
Same where I grew up. Most high schools in Monmouth County would be in NJ top 100 high schools- certainly any Freehold Regional plus Holmdel, Rumson-Fair Haven, Red Bank Regional, and perhaps also Middletown South and Ocean Twp, on top of the magnet schools, and yet CBA, RBC and SJV keep going. It's pretty crazy to pay the tuition on top of what are surely 10-20k tax bills but as we see from NJ parents plenty of them think it's cache somehow.
I know someone who went to HS with me who was never very religious and lives back in our hometown who is doing this. Her property taxes are probably at least 10k. Probably could have saved 200k+ had she moved to one of the adjoining towns with lesser schools as well and still went the private school route.
When you consider where a lot of the Jewish day schools are it's especially impressive- East Brunswick, Livingston, Cherry Hill- those are hefty tax bills and home prices but all areas with prestige.
I know a few kids that came from these schools and almost all of them were placed into the English program that makes you take a course before Expos (I forget what it's called or if it even exists anymore). OTOH, my public school education got me the rare pass from Expos with a 4 on the AP English exam. One of the few other people who I knew at RU that got that same exception was a Jewish friend who grew up fairly religious but went to a public HS.
With all the craziness going on out there one of my favorite anecdotes about the AP English exam is that I wrote about a book by a certain recently deceased author who has been in the news a lot lately. And I swear she is the only reason I got a 4. Weird how some stuff sticks in your memory like that, but so many kids were envious of not having to take Expos so I guess it sat with me.
A relative and his wife are sending their very small child to a Jewish day school's preschool program because of the school's excellent reputation -- and the wife isn't even Jewish.
It’s very common at our school. The trouble tends to be keeping them beyond the ECC. I’ve seen classes drop from 18 in Junior Kindergarten to 10 the following year. Fortunately, our school has seen a rise in the number of students, buoyed by the fact it was open all but maybe 10 days last school year. Smaller school, easier to keep open during a pandemic.
I'm not sure, but I think the plan is to keep the child at this day school indefinitely. She seems to like it and be doing well.
Or the fact that a market exists because of the public school issues.
It is not status. It is we do not want the political stuff that public schools espouse in certain areas. My children went to parochial school for that reason. Just wish in NJ we could get credit/reimbursed like other states but New Jersey Extortionist Association (NJEA) will never let that happen. Only get busing reimbursement.
The data reflects those public schools being excellent. But you could do this all over NJ. Average SAT at Bishop Ahr vs JP Stevens or SJV vs Holmdel HS, there are others. SPP and McNair would probably be the rare one in the same ballpark.
+1
Issues with public schools are immense and growing. Even the traditional "good" public districts are suffering due to state and federal mandates, lack of local control, incompetent BoEs, union problems, large class sizes, etc. They are still the best place for kids with special needs, but other than that, there are much better options.
As for those better options, I would stay away from most diocese-based schools which are too rigid and underfunded and instead focus on independent private schools (whether religious or not). In my area, WW/P, Princeton, and Monty are all top-ten school districts, but the elite local privates are at full capacity with long waiting lists. What does that tell you? For parents that really care, gotta go private. There you are a customer with influence, not just a number to be ignored.
But that could be a $12,000 difference for the Private. I had no issues at Mother Seton and BGA/STA. I get Montgomery but Property Taxes are $25,000+ . I live in town with low property taxes to supplement the parochial.
The independent privates are more expensive, but you get what you pay for. Many diocese-based schools are truly struggling. St. Paul's in Princeton is as well funded as a diocese school gets, but the student experience is no where close to the local indy privates.
Wardlaw is a weird place. A few of my RU buddies went there and said.....you either love it or hate it. It's a unique culture for students and parents. Definitely not for everyone!
There are some reasons to send your kids to private. For example, some children cannot thrive and succeed in a school with large class sizes. However, in most cases I agree with you.
100%. I’m in the Philly suburbs in one of the top 3 school districts in PA (Tredyffrin Eastown) and we’ve chosen to spend the $25K/year on a private, all-girls Catholic high school in Villanova rather than a top notch public high school (Conestoga High School) because my daughter was slipping through the cracks in a classroom with nearly 30 other kids. At the Academy of Notre Dame, her largest class is 17 students. The rest of her classes are between 10 to 15 students in each class. She is absolutely killing it now academically with the more individualized attention she receives. Best money I’ve ever spent.
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Homeschooling was already booming before corona. Now it has gone to another level. Many Catholic schools in the urban areas were so old it would have taken an enormous amount of money to renovate them.
In fact, the national percentage of students who are being home-schooled is now about as high as the percentage in private schools. (This may not be true in New Jersey, which is not among the leaders in home schooling, and has a relatively high percentage of students in private schools, no doubt due to the existence of Catholic schools.) https://ballotpedia.org/Private_school_participation_statistics https://www.census.gov/library/stor...ing-on-the-rise-during-covid-19-pandemic.html As @HeavenUniv. says, this trend began even before Covid, but Covid doubled the percentage of home-schooled kids.
From the Economist, the British-American news weekly: "Fact of the day: 1.6m, the number of pupils in Catholic schools in America. Enrolment in Catholic schools has cratered since the 1960s but recently ticked up in the pandemic." The full article (behind a pay wall) says that Catholic school enrollment peaked at 5.2 million in the 1960s. The pandemic brought increases because many Catholic schools had empty classrooms and so plenty of space for social distancing; thus Catholic schools were more likely to remain open than public schools, and so Catholic schools appealed to parents who found their children did poorly with remote learning. An increasing proportion of kids in the schools are non-Catholic. "In 1970 only 2.7% of the pupil population was non-Catholic. Last year it was one in five. In some dioceses it neared two in five. Kathleen Porter-Magee, superintendent of Partnership Schools, says the children in her Cleveland schools are nearly all non-Catholic: “We like to quote the late Cardinal Hickey of the Archdiocese of Washington who said, ‘We educate our communities, not because they are Catholic, but because we are’.”
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My daughter goes to an independent catholic school in Princeton (as in, it is not associated with a diocese). Half of the student pop is non-catholic and the trend is increasing. In the late summer/early fall of 2020 there was a huge increase in last second applications due to public schools being 100% remote. As many students as possible were accommodated, but most of these kids had to be waitlisted. All of the last second students from 2020, decided to stay at the school for 2021.
It is easy for us to manage such a diverse student pop. I describe our school as an academic prep school with catholic on the side. Yes, there are plenty of catholic elements to the school year, but every religion is celebrated and the focus is on spirituality, empathy, and understanding there is something bigger than us (as individuals).
I think it's great that people are paying 15-25k in taxes and then leaving the schools to parents smart enough to realize the public schools are 10x the caliber.
different strokes for different folks. There isn't one right answer for everyone.
We're debating sending our daughter to catholic school. We moved to Monmouth County for the public schools and are in a good district, but I don't like the way things are trending.
Trying to hold off as long as we can as she's in 1st grade, but thinking sometime before or at middle school would be the ticket. Certainly not looking forward to paying the tuition though as our taxes cover public school that we won't be using if we decide to go that route.
Trying to hold off as long as we can as she's in 1st grade, but thinking sometime before or at middle school would be the ticket. Certainly not looking forward to paying the tuition though as our taxes cover public school that we won't be using if we decide to go that route.
You have some good options in the area. As with most things in life, you get what you pay for. There are so many benefits to private school, some direct like the quality of education and college placement, but some indirect like becoming part of a peer group where more families care about what you care about.
When to start and what school to choose depends on many things, including the personality of your child and how he/she handles transitions.
Very good points all around
We have a few more years to weigh the options, and I’m torn as my wife and I were both public school educated
I am used to the idea of kids starting in Catholic school and then switching to the public schools for high school. That was a frequent pattern when I was growing up many years ago. Obviously, kids and parents can do it the other way around. That must be happening more and more frequently. I hope you and your wife are able to come to the best decision possible for your daughter.
I did public school for K-12 (East Brunswick). I never thought I would have a child go private, but now I can't imagine her not there. Times change. The public school system that I experienced 80s/early 90s is long gone for many reasons.
We chose a private school that goes through 12th grade because our daughter thrives with consistency, instead of transitions. She wants to feel like she belongs and owns her school, that it is truly her place. We started in pre-K and she's now in 4th grade. It's probably the best parental decisions that we ever made! :)
Yeah I’m starting to think that’s the move
Life rarely turns out how we plan it!
