All of the Final Four teams hardly play their bench

[kcg88]

Here's where each Final Four team ranks in percent of minutes given to bench players:

Kansas - 296th
Duke - 314th
Villanova - 323rd
(Rutgers - 342nd)
North Carolina - 344th

Some others: Gonzaga (288), Houston (271), Arizona (220), Kentucky (252)

Especially in the age of the transfer portal it seems much more important to develop 5-6 guys you can ride hard and not worry so much about building depth. Thoughts?

 

[jordkap]

The difference is those teams get 5 stars every year. When your players are the best in the country, you can do that more often.

 

[hoquat63]

Nova will be down one starter - torn Achilles in final minutes

 

[needmorecowbell]

The difference is those teams get 5 stars every year. When your players are the best in the country, you can do that more often.

I guess 5 stars don’t get tired. Lol

 

[fluoxetine]

Here's where each Final Four team ranks in percent of minutes given to bench players:

Kansas - 296th
Duke - 314th
Villanova - 323rd
(Rutgers - 342nd)
North Carolina - 344th

Some others: Gonzaga (288), Houston (271), Arizona (220), Kentucky (252)

Especially in the age of the transfer portal it seems much more important to develop 5-6 guys you can ride hard and not worry so much about building depth. Thoughts?

Agree but I would say you need 6-7.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

The Final 4 teams in adjusted offensive efficiency according to bart

1,6,9,17

We play a different style of basketball that requires more effort on the defensive end.

The other issue we had is our star player was not in top cardiovascular shape

 

[fluoxetine]

Counterpoint: Every one of the final four teams is also ahead of us in defensive efficiency

 

[Rufaninga]

The Final 4 teams in adjusted offensive efficiency according to bart

1,6,9,17

So defense travels, but doesn't win championships?

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

The difference is those teams get 5 stars every year. When your players are the best in the country, you can do that more often.

Doesn’t matter. The portal changes everything.

If (big if) Caleb were to return we’d be in excellent shape to have a very strong core starting line up next year too. We’d have the perfect paper situation to offer 2 plug and play transfers. A solid nucleus of 3 of 5 starters returning with the least possible concern about competition from the bench to land a starter spot. Meanwhile our returning bench would develop more (Mag, Hyatt and Miller) and have an opportunity to improve over the offseason plus we’ll be bringing in 2 frosh that feasibly could produce off the bat too.

Without Caleb too the outlook would be a big wildcard. The defense would then become just as big a focus in seeking replacements as the offense. That’s a lot harder (though not impossible) when shopping the portal.

 

[Mr Magoo]

If anything, we played our bench too much this season. Cliff should only sit if he’s in foul trouble or if he asks to come out.

 

[RUJMM78]

Between regular and tv time outs teams can play with only 6-7 players depending on foul trouble.The slow down half court offense also negates the need for additional players.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Between regular and tv time outs teams can play with only 6-7 players depending on foul trouble.The slow down half court offense also negates the need for additional players.

does that mean players can go under screens?

Watched parts of 3-4 of Oregon games and i was surprised to see on multiple occasions Jacob Young go under screens.

Part of the deal being a Rutgers fan is it is going to be extremely difficult to land top talent. We have a coach who finally figured out how to win here. You get long players, that are good teammates and are willing to work real hard on defense. Our guys have to play harder because quite frankly they aren't as talented as the competition.

 

[YoucancallmeRay]

You'd need a backup at guard, forward, and center (Dean, Hyatt, Miller) that you could rely on .

 

[kcg88]

does that mean players can go under screens?

Watched parts of 3-4 of Oregon games and i was surprised to see on multiple occasions Jacob Young go under screens.

Part of the deal being a Rutgers fan is it is going to be extremely difficult to land top talent. We have a coach who finally figured out how to win here. You get long players, that are good teammates and are willing to work real hard on defense. Our guys have to play harder because quite frankly they aren't as talented as the competition.

They key is, is that repeatable without an honorable mention All American tying it together?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

They key is, is that repeatable without an honorable mention All American tying it together?

Absolutely. You may be significantly overrating his value to the team the past 3 years.

 

[RUChoppin]

does that mean players can go under screens?

Watched parts of 3-4 of Oregon games and i was surprised to see on multiple occasions Jacob Young go under screens.

Part of the deal being a Rutgers fan is it is going to be extremely difficult to land top talent. We have a coach who finally figured out how to win here. You get long players, that are good teammates and are willing to work real hard on defense. Our guys have to play harder because quite frankly they aren't as talented as the competition.

He figured out how to get wins with that approach, but that doesn't mean it's his ideal approach, either. Now that we've had 3 successful seasons in a row, he should be able to start making stronger pitches to more talented players. If he could get more 4-5* players, I have a feeling his style would adapt to the increased level of talent.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

He figured out how to get wins with that approach, but that doesn't mean it's his ideal approach, either. Now that we've had 3 successful seasons in a row, he should be able to start making stronger pitches to more talented players. If he could get more 4-5* players, I have a feeling his style would adapt to the increased level of talent.

What exactly is the pitch? The universe of 4-5* players is still small. We havent made it out of the 1st weekend of the tournament. I don't expect a Rutgers basketball players can expect a sizeable NIL deal.

Look at the 4* guys we have had here. So happy to have Cliff and i think the engineering angle really helped here.

 

[IL Lusciato]

Wow, the future must be grim for them.

 

[kcg88]

Absolutely. You may be significantly overrating his value to the team the past 3 years.

I may be but I really don't think I am. Only one way to found out and that's to wait.

 

[Mr_Twister]

It’s not a matter of fitness. So many breaks in the action. I think the Penn State center was maybe the only player I saw this year who needed a blow.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I may be but I really don't think I am. Only one way to found out and that's to wait.

if we lose Caleb, Ron and Geo and back fill them poorly from the portal and/or our organic players dont improve or arent ready we won't know.

If we return Paul and Cliff along with Mag, Reiber and Miller I'd find it hard to believe that we can't be successful. Got to think in the portal we can get 2 starters who can give us offense and hopefully play the D that Pike requires.

I am really looking forward to next year.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

It’s not a matter of fitness. So many breaks in the action. I think the Penn State center was maybe the only player I saw this year who needed a blow.

....and not cliff?

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Absolutely. You may be significantly overrating his value to the team the past 3 years.

I agree with you. But I think we could be in for a rough one if we lose Caleb too. Pike’s style requires some polishing. We could really use one more year of our defensive star next season while the new guys get up to speed and the bench guys continue to develop.

 

[RUChoppin]

What exactly is the pitch? The universe of 4-5* players is still small. We havent made it out of the 1st weekend of the tournament. I don't expect a Rutgers basketball players can expect a sizeable NIL deal.

Look at the 4* guys we have had here. So happy to have Cliff and i think the engineering angle really helped here.

The previous pitch was "if you come, we can turn this around". Now that it's turned around, the pitch becomes vying for conference championships and deeper tourney runs.

Previously we were trying to get people to buy a vision of what a winning Rutgers program could look like.... now that it's here, the vision and pitch will change.

Rivals has 127 four-to-five-star players in the 2022 class and 111 in the 2021 class. Plus the portal, where stars go out the window and you look at actual production. Not out of the question that we could bring in 1-2 "four-star-equivalent" players each year.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

The previous pitch was "if you come, we can turn this around". Now that it's turned around, the pitch becomes vying for conference championships and deeper tourney runs.

Previously we were trying to get people to buy a vision of what a winning Rutgers program could look like.... now that it's here, the vision and pitch will change.

Rivals has 127 four-to-five-star players in the 2022 class and 111 in the 2021 class. Plus the portal, where stars go out the window and you look at actual production. Not out of the question that we could bring in 1-2 "four-star-equivalent" players each year.

Until we win with offense, I still think we’re pitching a grind it out style which doesn’t always appeal to the highest blue chip recruits. I’m okay with this. If you have a good team, things can break right for you come tourney time even if you don’t have 5 stars.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

The previous pitch was "if you come, we can turn this around". Now that it's turned around, the pitch becomes vying for conference championships and deeper tourney runs.

Previously we were trying to get people to buy a vision of what a winning Rutgers program could look like.... now that it's here, the vision and pitch will change.

Rivals has 127 four-to-five-star players in the 2022 class and 111 in the 2021 class. Plus the portal, where stars go out the window and you look at actual production. Not out of the question that we could bring in 1-2 "four-star-equivalent" players each year.

If the top 15-20 schools are getting 3 and 4 of those players not enough are left.

The ones that are have a high chance of really not being 4 star players in terms of value to Rutgers basketball.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Pike's batting average with 4 star recruits (when committed) .250

Duke, Montez, Cliff and Jaden

1 was an absolute whiff and another has an 0-2 count and is a lefty facing Randy Johnson.

 

[RUChoppin]

If the top 15-20 schools are getting 3 and 4 of those players not enough are left.

The ones that are have a high chance of really not being 4 star players in terms of value to Rutgers basketball.

They can't take 4 every year... and if they do, some are taking off for the portal. It doesn't all have to be out of the HS ranks.

We've made it up to "mid-level high major" from bottom-dweller, and we should see an aligning uptick in interest from players wanting to play for a program that makes the tournament and knocks off Top 25 teams on major market television.

Even if that just takes us to "upper echelon 3 star" level, as we find success we should also find improved talent.

Edit: Last year in the rivals database, 8 schools signed 3 players that had 4+ stars and 2 schools signed 4.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

They can't take 4 every year... and if they do, some are taking off for the portal. It doesn't all have to be out of the HS ranks.

We've made it up to "mid-level high major" from bottom-dweller, and we should see an aligning uptick in interest from players wanting to play for a program that makes the tournament and knocks off Top 25 teams on major market television.

Even if that just takes us to "upper echelon 3 star" level, as we find success we should also find improved talent.

Edit: Last year in the rivals database, 8 schools signed 3 players that had 4+ stars and 2 schools signed 4.

Are you counting the stars of players who transferred in via the portal?

 

[RUChoppin]

Are you counting the stars of players who transferred in via the portal?

Just what was in the recruiting rankings for last year - I don't know what Rivals includes.

Personally, though, once you're in college, stars and other recruiting rankings become largely irrelevant to me. A portal transfer should be judged based on their production at their prior stop, not on what people thought about them before they laced up their shoes for a college game.

That's why I called it a "four star equivalent" up above.... a player whose performance at their last stop sets the expectation at a similar level to a four-star HS player.

 

[cm_13]

What exactly is the pitch? The universe of 4-5* players is still small. We havent made it out of the 1st weekend of the tournament. I don't expect a Rutgers basketball players can expect a sizeable NIL deal.

Look at the 4* guys we have had here. So happy to have Cliff and i think the engineering angle really helped here.

Correct, and I’ll add to our lack of NBA draft selections. The biggest thing we need to do in my opinion is start landing a couple guys in the league. All the guys in that 4-5* universe are looking to play in the NBA. If that’s what your long term goal is, you’re not going to give much of a look at a school that hasn’t sent a guy there in a decade.

That’s why I always laugh when people bring up the RAC atmosphere or the practice facility as reasons we should be landing big recruits. No 4* is going “Oh y’all don’t practice in your home arena anymore? Sign me up.”

 

[fischy5000]

Here's where each Final Four team ranks in percent of minutes given to bench players:

Kansas - 296th
Duke - 314th
Villanova - 323rd
(Rutgers - 342nd)
North Carolina - 344th

Some others: Gonzaga (288), Houston (271), Arizona (220), Kentucky (252)

Especially in the age of the transfer portal it seems much more important to develop 5-6 guys you can ride hard and not worry so much about building depth. Thoughts?

Was saying to a friend how the Strength and conditioning coach at UNC (and i guess any of these teams) should prob get a nice paycheck/raise for whatever he's doing to get those guys in a position to stay at peak performance til the end of the game without sitting.

 

[chrebet80]

Absolutely. You may be significantly overrating his value to the team the past 3 years.

Sounds like you’re significantly underrating him

 

[PiscatawayMike]

Correct, and I’ll add to our lack of NBA draft selections. The biggest thing we need to do in my opinion is start landing a couple guys in the league. All the guys in that 4-5* universe are looking to play in the NBA. If that’s what your long term goal is, you’re not going to give much of a look at a school that hasn’t sent a guy there in a decade.

I agree. RU needs to send a couple players to the league in order to consistently land top-flight recruits. RU's lack of players in the NBA is a big detriment on the recruiting trail.

 

[RUJMM78]

does that mean players can go under screens?

Watched parts of 3-4 of Oregon games and i was surprised to see on multiple occasions Jacob Young go under screens.

Part of the deal being a Rutgers fan is it is going to be extremely difficult to land top talent. We have a coach who finally figured out how to win here. You get long players, that are good teammates and are willing to work real hard on defense. Our guys have to play harder because quite frankly they aren't as talented as the competition.

I prefer the straegy of Calhoun at Uconn who realized the only way the program could win championships in the Big East was with outstamding shooting guards.

 

[RU23]

I prefer the straegy of Calhoun at Uconn who realized the only way the program could win championships in the Big East was with outstamding shooting guards.

He also had at least 20 NBA players during his time at UConn including probably a half dozen All-Stars….don’t think we can replicate that lol.

 

[Good-Knight]

In the pre-season I posted the old adage: Play 7, trust 5. We didn't really need to play Miller, Palmquist or even Hyatt. When they walk on the court, a more talented player walked off the court. I get Miller and Hyatt brought energy and a different skill set. I get Palmquist mostly played due to foul issues.

 

[PiscatawayMike]

In the pre-season I posted the old adage: Play 7, trust 5. We didn't really need to play Miller, Palmquist or even Hyatt. When they walk on the court, a more talented player walked off the court. I get Miller and Hyatt brought energy and a different skill set. I get Palmquist mostly played due to foul issues.

If there was one guy on the bench who had to play some minutes, it was Reiber.

 

[RU848789]

Pike's batting average with 4 star recruits (when committed) .250

Duke, Montez, Cliff and Jaden

1 was an absolute whiff and another has an 0-2 count and is a lefty facing Randy Johnson.

Disagree on MM, as he gave us 3 pretty good years even if he didn't quite become a star.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Disagree on MM, as he gave us 3 pretty good years even if he didn't quite become a star.

2.5