Bottom of the rotation

[Scangg]

I had a post about this in the improvement poll thread, but how do you see the bottom of the rotation shaking out this season?

It's the off season where HYPE is being thrown out about just about every player. The reality is Pike isn't playing 12 guys in the rotation. A few players will have to be near the bottom of the rotation and likely not play much or at all as we get to the B1G schedule

11 and 12th men I'd say are Oskar and Ogbole. We know what we get from Oskar. He can give us solid minutes if we need it, but hopefully Chol is a higher upside tall 3 point shooter that can take that role. Ogbole is still working back from injury and Wolf is expected to break out. I can see Ogbole getting minutes against Edey if he's healthy in specific matchups but otherwise he is likely 3rd string 5

Davis - originally expected to be at the very end of the bench, but the hype train is full speed ahead now. His speed athleticism and defense likely get him on the court. If Rutgers wants to play uptempo, that is Davis. If he forces his way onto the court, which sounds likely, who is he taking minutes from and dropping in the rotation?

Williams - we haven't seen him yet but coming off an injury and not the greatest shooter. Believe I read an article that had him statistically not a good defender. I could see him losing minutes if Davis is truly a breakout freshman. Someone has to and it might be a player we wouldn't exactly expect. He is experienced and brings some size to the guard spot with Noah Davis and Simpson being either small or slender or both

Chol - complete wildcard. Talent is there. Shooting is there. Can he play D? Will he take advantage of likely early season playing time with Mag easing back in

Noah Griffiths Simpson seem like the locked in top 3 guards. Is there enough PT for both Davis and Williams? One of those 2 is likely to see less time IMO. I am curious to see how Noah looks defensively, but he would have to be reallyyy bad there to drop down the rotation which seems very unlikely

It's possible that the Hyatt hype never materializes in real games, but at this point there is too many positive reports to expect this to be the case. He did lose his spot to Oskar last season though so it can't be ruled out

Any other candidates for bottom of the rotation I am missing?

Noah Griffiths Simpson Hyatt Mag Cliff Wolf would be the locked in 7 for the rotation I would think with Davis Williams and Chol 8-10 having upside to play more and downside to be stuck to the bench if they don't deliver

 

[Good-Knight]

If we are looking at it through a half empty glass: Mag was playing at a high level when he got hurt. Before that he was our 5th option. Seems like we expect Mag to get back to his best; way above his average. An improved Wolf is better than an average Mag. Potentially, he could be folding sweatpants for Hyatt, Woolfolk, Ogbole, Chol, Palmquist. My honest projection is that either Hyatt or Mag will be unloved by the time Valentine's Day rolls along.

 

[Joey Bacala]

Ogbole is injured and may not see the court this year for a while, plus he needs development. If he gets healthy he may go in and throw a few fouls on a big if needed, but he has redshirt written all over him. As a result I don't count him. That leaves Oscar, and I think Williams.

 

[Joey Bacala]

If we are looking at it through a half empty glass: Mag was playing at a high level when he got hurt. Before that he was our 5th option. Seems like we expect Mag to get back to his best; way above his average. An improved Wolf is better than an average Mag. Potentially, he could be folding sweatpants for Hyatt, Woolfolk, Ogbole, Chol, Palmquist. My honest projection is that either Hyatt or Mag will be unloved by the time Valentine's Day rolls along.

Wolf and Mag play different positions and are completely different players, so hard to compare the two of them.

 

[NickRU714]

Going backwards:

13: Jeremiah Williams - doesn’t he still need a waiver to even be eligible this year plus he’s still hurt?
12: Ogbole - didn’t he just say he hopes to practice by January?

10 and 11 will likely end up being the "loser" between (Austin Williams/Jamichael Davis) and (Oskar/Hyatt).

8/9: Chol/Woolf (as backup C)
6/7: Winners of (Williams/Davis) and (Oskar/Hyatt)

Does Chol move ahead of Hyatt/Oscar eventually is the real question.

Starters: Noah, Simpson, GG, Mag, Clif

I'll just reiterate that at the end of last year, Hyatt lost his starting spot to Simpson and was behind Oskar.
If Mag is healthy to start the year, it will be interesting to see how much the Hyatt Hype carries into the season.

 

[Scangg]

Going backwards:

13: Jeremiah Williams - doesn’t he still need a waiver to even be eligible this year plus he’s still hurt?
12: Ogbole - didn’t he just say he hopes to practice by January?

10 and 11 will likely end up being the "loser" between (Austin Williams/Jamichael Davis) and (Oskar/Hyatt).

8/9: Chol/Woolf (as backup C)
6/7: Winners of (Williams/Davis) and (Oskar/Hyatt)

Does Chol move ahead of Hyatt/Oscar eventually is the real question.

Starters: Noah, Simpson, GG, Mag, Clif

I'll just reiterate that at the end of last year, Hyatt lost his starting spot to Simpson and was behind Oskar.
If Mag is healthy to start the year, it will be interesting to see how much the Hyatt Hype carries into the season.

Agree with most of this, but Hyatt is a captain now and has all the hype. Can't imagine he isn't the starter at the beginning of the season. From there, it's up to him to keep it. If he falls all the way behind Oskar again this season that would be a huge failure. Even if he doesn't have a 6th year breakout, he is likely a rotational piece still getting minutes. I guess the biggest threat to that would be a Chol breakout where he forces his way into the rotation in a big way

 

[Scarlet Shack]

I had a post about this in the improvement poll thread, but how do you see the bottom of the rotation shaking out this season?

It's the off season where HYPE is being thrown out about just about every player. The reality is Pike isn't playing 12 guys in the rotation. A few players will have to be near the bottom of the rotation and likely not play much or at all as we get to the B1G schedule

11 and 12th men I'd say are Oskar and Ogbole. We know what we get from Oskar. He can give us solid minutes if we need it, but hopefully Chol is a higher upside tall 3 point shooter that can take that role. Ogbole is still working back from injury and Wolf is expected to break out. I can see Ogbole getting minutes against Edey if he's healthy in specific matchups but otherwise he is likely 3rd string 5

Davis - originally expected to be at the very end of the bench, but the hype train is full speed ahead now. His speed athleticism and defense likely get him on the court. If Rutgers wants to play uptempo, that is Davis. If he forces his way onto the court, which sounds likely, who is he taking minutes from and dropping in the rotation?

Williams - we haven't seen him yet but coming off an injury and not the greatest shooter. Believe I read an article that had him statistically not a good defender. I could see him losing minutes if Davis is truly a breakout freshman. Someone has to and it might be a player we wouldn't exactly expect. He is experienced and brings some size to the guard spot with Noah Davis and Simpson being either small or slender or both

Chol - complete wildcard. Talent is there. Shooting is there. Can he play D? Will he take advantage of likely early season playing time with Mag easing back in

Noah Griffiths Simpson seem like the locked in top 3 guards. Is there enough PT for both Davis and Williams? One of those 2 is likely to see less time IMO. I am curious to see how Noah looks defensively, but he would have to be reallyyy bad there to drop down the rotation which seems very unlikely

It's possible that the Hyatt hype never materializes in real games, but at this point there is too many positive reports to expect this to be the case. He did lose his spot to Oskar last season though so it can't be ruled out

Any other candidates for bottom of the rotation I am missing?

Noah Griffiths Simpson Hyatt Mag Cliff Wolf would be the locked in 7 for the rotation I would think with Davis Williams and Chol 8-10 having upside to play more and downside to be stuck to the bench if they don't deliver

Your take is similar To mine

With only 200 minutes ..it’s hard to play more than 8. 9-11 are small parts roles

I really like is to play no one more than 28 minutes per game …especially if we will try to play faster …and perhaps press more

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

There are 7 absolute locks to play 15 minutes per game, no questions asked....this is based on tempo and defense abilities to score and play in transition, with an ability to catch, shoot, put the ball on the floor and playmake.

There are fans still forecasting lineups, based on RUs slow pace of play in the last 2 seasons.....it's going to take some time for fans to digest that basketball talent shows, when you play a faster pace and have to make quick shots and decisions. These 7 are the most likely/healhiest/quickest and likely locked into 15+ minutes a night.

Omoyuri
Griffiths
Hyatt
Simpson
Fernandes
Davis
Woolfolk

Once you get past these 7, the other minutes are going to depend on matchups and availability to get healthy and score. There are players that are better suited for how RU slowed the pace down last year, hoping for a defensive mistake by the opponent, in order to score.

Next up from 8 to 12

Mag
Austin Williams
Palmquist
Chol
Ogbole

13th is Jeremiah Williams and he would launch immediately into the likely 6th man, starting lineup role, if he is cleared.

In terms of spacing, pace, abilities to switch on defense and dribble, pass, shoot, the key (based on pace of play), will be Woolfolk finding minutes at the 4 and 5 and being able to rebound and defend multiple positions beyond the 5.

If Woolfolk can play the 4 (which is what he's being groomed and slimmed down to do), it completely unlocks the shooting of Hyatt and Griffiths, so they're not asked to be our best 3 point shooters in terms of volume and makes......it also reduces their potential foul trouble by asking them to play the 4.

As Mag gets back into a rhythm, these rotations can change by January but my guess will be that we need to get 7+ 3 pointers a game between Hyatt and Griffiths, in order to be successful as a team.

I don't see any path of consistent success for this roster without Hyatt and Griffiths shooting 3s. They'll need to provide spacing and help Cliff find room inside and those 2 shooters will also provide driving lanes for the guards.

Removing either Griffiths or Hyatt from the court for any extended minutes (unless Chol takes a huge step forward), will negatively impact Cliffs production like the roster did last year. And if that happens, there's not enough 1 on 1 abilities at guard to offset that impact on Cliff, unless Jeremiah Williams is cleared.

 

[Degaz-RU]

There are 7 absolute locks to play 15 minutes per game, no questions asked....this is based on tempo and defense abilities to score and play in transition, with an ability to catch, shoot, put the ball on the floor and playmake.

There are fans still forecasting lineups, based on RUs slow pace of play in the last 2 seasons.....it's going to take some time for fans to digest that basketball talent shows, when you play a faster pace and have to make quick shots and decisions. These 7 are the most likely/healhiest/quickest and likely locked into 15+ minutes a night.

Omoyuri
Griffiths
Hyatt
Simpson
Fernandes
Davis
Woolfolk

Once you get past these 7, the other minutes are going to depend on matchups and availability to get healthy and score. There are players that are better suited for how RU slowed the pace down last year, hoping for a defensive mistake by the opponent, in order to score.

Next up from 8 to 12

Mag
Austin Williams
Palmquist
Chol
Ogbole

13th is Jeremiah Williams and he would launch immediately into the likely 6th man, starting lineup role, if he is cleared.

In terms of spacing, pace, abilities to switch on defense and dribble, pass, shoot, the key (based on pace of play), will be Woolfolk finding minutes at the 4 and 5 and being able to rebound and defend multiple positions beyond the 5.

If Woolfolk can play the 4 (which is what he's being groomed and slimmed down to do), it completely unlocks the shooting of Hyatt and Griffiths, so they're not asked to be our best 3 point shooters in terms of volume and makes......it also reduces their potential foul trouble by asking them to play the 4.

As Mag gets back into a rhythm, these rotations can change by January but my guess will be that we need to get 7+ 3 pointers a game between Hyatt and Griffiths, in order to be successful as a team.

I don't see any path of consistent success for this roster without Hyatt and Griffiths shooting 3s. They'll need to provide spacing and help Cliff find room inside and those 2 shooters will also provide driving lanes for the guards.

Removing either Griffiths or Hyatt from the court for any extended minutes (unless Chol takes a huge step forward), will negatively impact Cliffs production like the roster did last year. And if that happens, there's not enough 1 on 1 abilities at guard to offset that impact on Cliff, unless Jeremiah Williams is cleared.

In terms of the 7 “locks” and the 5 other contingent players, I agree — and Mag would be an 8th lock were it not for his injury.

The 12th man right now is Ogbole, again because he’s making his way back from injury, and we probably won’t even see him on the court until January at the earliest.

So, really, this debate is about 9, 10, and 11 (since I would slot Mag into the top 8 locks once he’s healthy).

9, 10, and 11 will be (in no particular order), Austin Williams, Chol, and Palmquist. We will probably see Williams as a semi-regular part of the extended rotation since he plays guard, and we only have three other TRUE guards (sorry, I’m still not counting GG as a “guard” until I see him live go up against regular sized guards).

Chol and Palmquist will basically battle it out for deep reserve minutes at the 4. If Chol flashes with his shooting and athleticism, and can play decent defense, Oskar could be the odd man out.

 

[RUtrumpet92]

If/when Mag is healthy, I cannot imagine him getting less than 20 mpg. He will be our best defender and is the engine that made the press effective last season. He averaged 24.8 minutes. In a halfcourt scenario, he will be covering the main non-PG/non-C scoring threat.

 

[RU82]

First world problems we’re talking about here. This is the deepest team we’ve had in a long time. The rotation will work itself out based on game performance. We’re not going to play 11 deep every night.

 

[Scangg]

There are 7 absolute locks to play 15 minutes per game, no questions asked....this is based on tempo and defense abilities to score and play in transition, with an ability to catch, shoot, put the ball on the floor and playmake.

There are fans still forecasting lineups, based on RUs slow pace of play in the last 2 seasons.....it's going to take some time for fans to digest that basketball talent shows, when you play a faster pace and have to make quick shots and decisions. These 7 are the most likely/healhiest/quickest and likely locked into 15+ minutes a night.

Omoyuri
Griffiths
Hyatt
Simpson
Fernandes
Davis
Woolfolk

Once you get past these 7, the other minutes are going to depend on matchups and availability to get healthy and score. There are players that are better suited for how RU slowed the pace down last year, hoping for a defensive mistake by the opponent, in order to score.

Next up from 8 to 12

Mag
Austin Williams
Palmquist
Chol
Ogbole

13th is Jeremiah Williams and he would launch immediately into the likely 6th man, starting lineup role, if he is cleared.

In terms of spacing, pace, abilities to switch on defense and dribble, pass, shoot, the key (based on pace of play), will be Woolfolk finding minutes at the 4 and 5 and being able to rebound and defend multiple positions beyond the 5.

If Woolfolk can play the 4 (which is what he's being groomed and slimmed down to do), it completely unlocks the shooting of Hyatt and Griffiths, so they're not asked to be our best 3 point shooters in terms of volume and makes......it also reduces their potential foul trouble by asking them to play the 4.

As Mag gets back into a rhythm, these rotations can change by January but my guess will be that we need to get 7+ 3 pointers a game between Hyatt and Griffiths, in order to be successful as a team.

I don't see any path of consistent success for this roster without Hyatt and Griffiths shooting 3s. They'll need to provide spacing and help Cliff find room inside and those 2 shooters will also provide driving lanes for the guards.

Removing either Griffiths or Hyatt from the court for any extended minutes (unless Chol takes a huge step forward), will negatively impact Cliffs production like the roster did last year. And if that happens, there's not enough 1 on 1 abilities at guard to offset that impact on Cliff, unless Jeremiah Williams is cleared.

Agree with a lot of this, but Wolf at the 4 puts more pressure on other shooters, not less. Wolf is not a 3 point shooter

Oskar or Chol minutes at the 4 would take pressure off and open the court more for other 3 point shooters

Is there a reason you aren't including Noah as one of the 3 point shooters? Is it bc you see him as more of a facilitator at the B1G level?

He's a career 37.6% 3 point shooter and was at 45% in 11 games before injury last season... compared to Hyatt's 28.6%... that's a massive gap. We should want Noah taking 3's.

Also, of course you are low on Mag. Gotta stay on brand. He will obviously be playing significant minutes once healthy, if not starting

 

[PaKnight]

Going backwards:

13: Jeremiah Williams - doesn’t he still need a waiver to even be eligible this year plus he’s still hurt?
12: Ogbole - didn’t he just say he hopes to practice by January?

10 and 11 will likely end up being the "loser" between (Austin Williams/Jamichael Davis) and (Oskar/Hyatt).

8/9: Chol/Woolf (as backup C)
6/7: Winners of (Williams/Davis) and (Oskar/Hyatt)

Does Chol move ahead of Hyatt/Oscar eventually is the real question.

Starters: Noah, Simpson, GG, Mag, Clif

I'll just reiterate that at the end of last year, Hyatt lost his starting spot to Simpson and was behind Oskar.
If Mag is healthy to start the year, it will be interesting to see how much the Hyatt Hype carries into the season.

Jeremiah is healthy and has looked good. He does need a waiver and faces possible suspension over the gambling issue.

 

[RUtrumpet92]

Mag's scoring in B1G action from Jan 8th on:

Iowa 9 pts, 27 minutes, 3-10 (0-2) / 3-4 FT
Northwestern 9 pts, 15 minutes, 4-5 (1-1)
Ohio State 15 pts, 33 minutes, 5-6 (2-3) / 3-4
Michigan State 6 pts, 27 minutes, 2-6 / 2-3
Penn State 8 pts, 35 minutes, 1-3 (1-2) / 5-6
Iowa 12 pts, 31 minutes, 5-7 FG / 2-3
Minnesota 10 pts, 24 minutes, 5-6
Michigan State 7 pts in 11 minutes before the injury (3-4 FG, 1-1 3PT)

Total 76 pts in 8 games, averaged 9.5 ppg - and I'd say it is a great bet he would've gotten another 4 pts in that MSU game if he hadn't gotten injured, which would've pushed the average to 10 pts.

Mag was totally breaking out and again, I will be SHOCKED if he is not averaging 20+ minutes when healthy.

 

[Nycrusupporter]

In terms of minutes, when I read the commentary, posters miss the situational aspects of our rotation. For example, if our small guards have trouble covering bigger BIG guards, Austin Williams will play a lot more at the expense of some of our smaller guards. It will take several games to sort out what our rotation really looks like, and there could be some surprises once we start playing other teams.

 

[needmorecowbell]

If/when Mag is healthy, I cannot imagine him getting less than 20 mpg. He will be our best defender and is the engine that made the press effective last season. He averaged 24.8 minutes. In a halfcourt scenario, he will be covering the main non-PG/non-C scoring threat.

Definitely. Mag is a starter when healthy and probably plays more minutes than anyone other than Cliff. He will be the best defender and can guard 1-4. His offensive game is also very underrated. He is becoming a very good shooter and makes good decisions.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Mag's scoring in B1G action from Jan 8th on:

Iowa 9 pts, 27 minutes, 3-10 (0-2) / 3-4 FT
Northwestern 9 pts, 15 minutes, 4-5 (1-1)
Ohio State 15 pts, 33 minutes, 5-6 (2-3) / 3-4
Michigan State 6 pts, 27 minutes, 2-6 / 2-3
Penn State 8 pts, 35 minutes, 1-3 (1-2) / 5-6
Iowa 12 pts, 31 minutes, 5-7 FG / 2-3
Minnesota 10 pts, 24 minutes, 5-6
Michigan State 7 pts in 11 minutes before the injury (3-4 FG, 1-1 3PT)

Total 76 pts in 8 games, averaged 9.5 ppg - and I'd say it is a great bet he would've gotten another 4 pts in that MSU game if he hadn't gotten injured, which would've pushed the average to 10 pts.

Mag was totally breaking out and again, I will be SHOCKED if he is not averaging 20+ minutes when healthy.

That’s in 203 minutes of play in 8 games

So 9.5 ppg in 25.4 in that 8 game stretch …we were 5-3

That’s nearly 15 points per 40 minutes …very solid if he is going to stay at this level and be your 4th or 5th option on the court

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Did we not go from a top 15 team to a #70ish team when Mag went out last year?

 

[RUtrumpet92]

True, that was a hot stretch - but he was still a 50% FG shooter on the season (30% from long range). Only Wolf and Cliff hit a higher FG% and it's not close. Add in it was CLEAR he was our best one on one defender not named Caleb and it is a no-brainer to project him getting a lot of minutes when healthy. I'm staking my flag on him. :)

 

[Scangg]

If you looked at Paul's best 7-8 game stretch his Junior year and expected that play from him for his whole senior year, you'd be disappointed.

During that 8-game stretch, Mag shot 60% from 2 and 56% from 3.
If you think that's his new baseline level of play you are going to be disappointed
Mag is a terrific player. He brings a ton to the team. He's not knocking down shots like that consistently.

Mag and Paul are completely different though. Paul grew up playing bball. Mag grew up playing soccer and switched to bball later in life. He was a much more raw prospect coming in so more improvement in the skills department can be expected

He's not going to shoot 50% from 3, but he likely shoots a solid percentage. Mid 30's is reasonable and would be a massive improvement over Caleb's 3 percentage while bringing hopefully similar defensive production

It's hard to imagine Pike not playing his best perimeter defender significant minutes. Do we really want lineups for significant minutes with no lock down defender on the court?

 

[rucoe89]

Ogbole is injured and may not see the court this year for a while, plus he needs development. If he gets healthy he may go in and throw a few fouls on a big if needed, but he has redshirt written all over him. As a result I don't count him. That leaves Oscar, and I think Williams.

Is Ogbole eligible to Redshirt? If so, that may be the right answer for him.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

If you looked at Paul's best 7-8 game stretch his Junior year and expected that play from him for his whole senior year, you'd be disappointed.

During that 8-game stretch, Mag shot 60% from 2 and 56% from 3.
If you think that's his new baseline level of play you are going to be disappointed
Mag is a terrific player. He brings a ton to the team. He's not knocking down shots like that consistently.

What if you got 50% of that production.....like WTF happened. He went from Magic Johnson to a scrub in a month.

 

[littlenis5]

Agree with everyone on the consensus lock minutes (Mag, Cliff, Hyatt, Simpson, Fernandes, Gavin and Wolf), and the lock dwellers (Jeremiah, Ogbole). I think Davis and Chol are priority development guys for the staff and should be 8/9 clearly in minutes. Oskar and Austin will probably be situational, and I have to lean Oskar in most cases. The staff loves what he brings. You’ve barely heard anything about Austin Williams this off season which is a bad sign for a newcomer.

 

[Degaz-RU]

Agree with everyone on the consensus lock minutes (Mag, Cliff, Hyatt, Simpson, Fernandes, Gavin and Wolf), and the lock dwellers (Jeremiah, Ogbole). I think Davis and Chol are priority development guys for the staff and should be 8/9 clearly in minutes. Oskar and Austin will probably be situational, and I have to lean Oskar in most cases. The staff loves what he brings. You’ve barely heard anything about Austin Williams this off season which is a bad sign for a newcomer.

Remember, Austin Williams is ALSO coming back from injury, and I don't even think he played in the Senegal/Portugal trip because of it. So it makes sense why we haven't heard much about him. That said, I'll be happy if he can give us 15-18 minutes a night and 4 -5 ppg in a reserve role.

 

[Scangg]

I didn't say anything about Mag's minutes, I was talking about expectations.

It seems many are expecting to take his best 8 game stretch ever, give him more minutes and expect the same per-minute rates as those best 8 games in an expanded role, all after ACL surgery. That's not realistic.

I hope he's great. I think many of the expectations are out of whack.

You think people think Mag will be a 50% 3 point shooter?

Mag was already good and then really started to break out. If he's healthy, people expect him to play well. That isn't unrealistic. It's likely

 

[needmorecowbell]

You think people think Mag will be a 50% 3 point shooter?

Mag was already good and then really started to break out. If he's healthy, people expect him to play well. That isn't unrealistic. It's likely

If/when healthy, Mag will be a bigger part of the offense and defense. I would expect him to average more minutes, points, etc. Like you said @Scangg, he was breaking out last year. It’s fair to believe he has more room to grow considering his trajectory.

 

[Scangg]

I don't think most realize WHY Mag had such a strong stretch. He didn't take more shots, he didn't get more rebounds, he didn't get more steals. He just made an extraordinary percentage of shots he was already taking.

It seems like people expect Mag to score like he did when he shot 50% from 3 and 60% from 2, which was 9.5 ppg in 25 mins and to keep up that rate while playing more minutes.

I agree, if he's healthy, he'll play well (if he plays pretty much like last year). I just think that will look different from what most people think, more like the first part of the season than those last 8 games.

When Mag is brought up about what he brings, it's almost never about scoring

We need his defense toughness rebounding dirty work. He can score on broken plays and put backs without plays being run for him. Mag just needs to be able to knock down the open 3 at a decent rate. Mag takes a lot of quality shots either open jumpers or around the rim so he likely will continue to be an efficient low volume scorer

With more offensive talent around him, his scoring is even less important.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

You think people think Mag will be a 50% 3 point shooter?

no chance












he is way better than that

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Guess who was very good in that Mag stretch you were referring to......Paul Mulcahy.

Our biggest loss this season may not be Cam or Caleb. It could be the Paul Mulcahy we had 2/3 of the time the past 2 years.

I keep hearing how we are better this year...we will play faster...we have guards that can break down a defense...Cliff will be better with a different PG....and chemistry (BTW chemistry is always improved in October EVERY year it is mentioned, I am more guilty than most)

Paul had his warts, Paul killed us for stretches over the past 2 years, BUT I have a tough time believing our point guard play this year will be better than when Paul was playing good.

Before I hear about how I don't know about basketball.....not binary, but there are 2 ways for the PG to get easy buckets.....1. beat your man and force help 2. keep eyes open and constantly look out for other 4 guys and use offense to get good looks.

 

[Scangg]

I have a tough time believing our point guard play this year will be better than when Paul was playing good

But I also have a tough time believing our point guard play this year will be worse than when Paul was playing bad

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

But I also have a tough time believing our point guard play this year will be worse than when Paul was playing bad

you don't need to try...
I know there will be one hundred posts about Paul in a month when games start. I am extremely interested and curious how he will do. I have NO idea what to expect. If I were to guess his style of play won't match up with Washington and the PAC 3 or 4 aka Conference of Champions

 

[PaKnight]

Is Ogbole eligible to Redshirt? If so, that may be the right answer for him.

If he can get on the court, he is going to play, probably not a lot.

 

[Scangg]

you don't need to try...
I know there will be one hundred posts about Paul in a month when games start. I am extremely interested and curious how he will do. I have NO idea what to expect. If I were to guess his style of play won't match up with Washington and the PAC 3 or 4 aka Conference of Champions

I'm more interested in how Noah will do. He should be more consistent on offense, but I do worry about his defense

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I'm more interested in how Noah will do. He should be more consistent on offense, but I do worry about his defense

I think it goes without saying we are more interested in our guys!

I do agree with your analysis based on the data we have. You always worry about the 1st 1/x of the season how a guy will do based on “nerves” playing on a new team. Took Cam 1/3 of the season.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

If you thought Rutgers last year was slow…..do you know who is really really slow?

@zappaa likes this team is your hint

 

[Nycrusupporter]

I don't think most realize WHY Mag had such a strong stretch. He didn't take more shots, he didn't get more rebounds, he didn't get more steals. He just made an extraordinary percentage of shots he was already taking.

It seems like people expect Mag to score like he did when he shot 50% from 3 and 60% from 2, which was 9.5 ppg in 25 mins and to keep up that rate while playing more minutes.

I agree, if he's healthy, he'll play well (if he plays pretty much like last year). I just think that will look different from what most people think, more like the first part of the season than those last 8 games.

Mag is at his best when he plays within himself and doesn’t try to do too much. If he starts dribbling around the court, he bound to run into someone. If he tries to shoot while he is being covered, he will likely miss badly.

 

[Nycrusupporter]

Guess who was very good in that Mag stretch you were referring to......Paul Mulcahy.

Our biggest loss this season may not be Cam or Caleb. It could be the Paul Mulcahy we had 2/3 of the time the past 2 years.

I keep hearing how we are better this year...we will play faster...we have guards that can break down a defense...Cliff will be better with a different PG....and chemistry (BTW chemistry is always improved in October EVERY year it is mentioned, I am more guilty than most)

Paul had his warts, Paul killed us for stretches over the past 2 years, BUT I have a tough time believing our point guard play this year will be better than when Paul was playing good.

Before I hear about how I don't know about basketball.....not binary, but there are 2 ways for the PG to get easy buckets.....1. beat your man and force help 2. keep eyes open and constantly look out for other 4 guys and use offense to get good looks.

I am not as negative on Paul here as many are, he was clearly struggling with both injuries and a lack of confidence, particularly at the end of the season. I think the one thing that did get exposed last year was his poor ball handling. He really struggled to bring the ball up against any pressure, basically had to slowly come up the court backwards to avoid getting stripped. In the half court he just dribbles way too high, and teams figured out the if he tries to come in the lane, players could dig at him and slap the ball way.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

Agree with a lot of this, but Wolf at the 4 puts more pressure on other shooters, not less. Wolf is not a 3 point shooter

Oskar or Chol minutes at the 4 would take pressure off and open the court more for other 3 point shooters

Is there a reason you aren't including Noah as one of the 3 point shooters? Is it bc you see him as more of a facilitator at the B1G level?

He's a career 37.6% 3 point shooter and was at 45% in 11 games before injury last season... compared to Hyatt's 28.6%... that's a massive gap. We should want Noah taking 3's.

Also, of course you are low on Mag. Gotta stay on brand. He will obviously be playing significant minutes once healthy, if not starting

There's no on brand, it's a basketball discussion.....in terms of pure basketball talent, skill, shooting, passing, dribbling, creating offense, Mag isn't strong at any of these items.

There's no need to just assume that a players health immediately translates to playing in a faster paced, up tempo game. Too many people are married to one style of basketball and last years plodding game of the high 50s to low 60s scoring, allows for a player like Mag, Mulcahy and Spencer to mask a lot of their deficiencies.

It remains to be seen how fans believe Mag playing 25+ minutes a game and removing Hyatt from the floor, makes RU a better shooting team. If you wanted to argue Mag playing with Hyatt at the 3 and Griffiths at the 2, then we can sustain the shooting necessary to actually win games.

If Mag becomes a volume shooter, catch and shoot player from the perimeter AND can play plus defense, then we have options. I am not sure, off an ACL, to ask for production in a totally different style, just because the player is closer to 100%.

I wouldn't assume that this up tempo style would suit Spencer, Mulcahy or potentially Mag....although Mag has the physical skill set to compete, it comes down to fit.

RU (in my basketball assessment) needs 12+ 3s made, per game to win in this style of play. Hyatt and Griffiths are slotted to likely take and make the most 3s. If you can make up for Hyatts likely 60 made 3s, with Mag playing over him, good luck with that. He made 45 last year. I'm very confident Gavin will exceed the number of 3s made vs Spencer's production.

There's legitimately no path left on the roster to replace that amount of 3 point shooting and the goal is to increase pace and scoring. If that means I am "on brand", then you can say that.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Caleb has a contract to play in G league solely based on D. Caleb was our 2nd best perimeter defender last year.

Defense is half the game. The team who gives up the least amount of points wins the game.

The Hyatt i have seen for 2 years is unplayable defensively.

 

[Nycrusupporter]

Caleb has a contract to play in G league solely based on D. Caleb was our 2nd best perimeter defender last year.

Defense is half the game. The team who gives up the least amount of points wins the game.

The Hyatt i have seen for 2 years is unplayable defensively.

I think he is fine against 4s, he just can’t play wings. With all the talk about what a key contributor he will be this year, I am more concerned about him improving his shooting perecentages. If he is still a 37% from the field and 30% from 3 as a main contributor on offense, we are going to have trouble winning games no matter how well we play defensively.