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Yes nothing has changed here … the same ones here who just can’t seem to fathom the facts they were working in consort with MSM BS. It is not the so called conspiracy theorists who started this debate. Some guy with ties to vaccines ( research) and invested property rights is still living in the pandemic era .
 
No, it doesn't. Not at all. Unless you have a parasitic infection, which is why it's been so great for river blindness, a terrible endemic disease in much of Africa (Merck has been donating it for free for decades). As I've said before, I worked on ivermectin and would have been ecstatic if it worked for COVID, but it doesn't.

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/nebby-covid.233575/post-5491591
Whatever dude. My doctor and pharmacist disagree. So do thousands of other doctors. I think I will trust them before I trust you.
 
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Moderators - What ya think? This is a basketball forum. Is it time to shut this down and move it to the Board dominated by all the crazy conspiracy theorists? Oh - I forgot - the moderators seem to be charter members of that group. 🤪
Agreed. The vax automatons are scary.
 
YOU are so wrong. I’m not retired like you so will need to carve out time to dig up and post the references. When I get around to posting, all I ask is you read and respond. Fair?
I'm not wrong on vaccines, in particular, as I've read just about every key peer-reviewed journal article on the clinical and post-clinical effectiveness and safety of the vaccines, along with the scientific and medical opinions of most leaders in the field (yes, I have had free time during retirement). There are good reasons why >99% of doctors are vaccinated. I'll read whatever you post, but I'm 99.99% sure that it'll be the usual misinformation I've spent 2+ years debunking, but maybe you'll surprise me.
 
Moderators - What ya think? This is a basketball forum. Is it time to shut this down and move it to the Board dominated by all the crazy conspiracy theorists? Oh - I forgot - the moderators seem to be charter members of that group. 🤪
@RichardSchnyderite
 
Whatever dude. My doctor and pharmacist disagree. So do thousands of other doctors. I think I will trust them before I trust you.
Show me one peer-reviewed RCT that shows ivermectin is effective against SARS-CoV-2. Hint: you can't. I also doubt there are "thousands" of doctors who think ivermectin works (~1% of MDs would be ~1000 and >99% of the ~1MM MDs are vaccinated).

Also, given how many of you are fond of saying that the vaccines are just a financial play by "Pharma" how would you then explain Merck, the company that pioneered ivermectin issuing the following, stating that ivermectin has no known clinical efficacy for COVID (and a lack of safety data at the doses used by some), when doing so reduces a potentially large income stream?

And every medical regulatory body in the world (not just the US) has failed to authorize or approved ivermectin to prevent or treat COVID-19 in humans (and has raised major safety concerns in using ivermectin for COVID-19; us of ivermectin was all off-label). But somehow you and a few quacks know better. smh.

https://www.merck.com/news/merck-statement-on-ivermectin-use-during-the-covid-19-pandemic/

KENILWORTH, N.J., Feb. 4, 2021 – Merck (NYSE: MRK), known as MSD outside the United States and Canada, today affirmed its position regarding use of ivermectin during the COVID-19 pandemic. Company scientists continue to carefully examine the findings of all available and emerging studies of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 for evidence of efficacy and safety. It is important to note that, to-date, our analysis has identified:

  • No scientific basis for a potential therapeutic effect against COVID-19 from pre-clinical studies;
  • No meaningful evidence for clinical activity or clinical efficacy in patients with COVID-19 disease, and;
  • A concerning lack of safety data in the majority of studies.
We do not believe that the data available support the safety and efficacy of ivermectin beyond the doses and populations indicated in the regulatory agency-approved prescribing information.
 
Show me one peer-reviewed RCT that shows ivermectin is effective against SARS-CoV-2. Hint: you can't. I also doubt there are "thousands" of doctors who think ivermectin works (~1% of MDs would be ~1000 and >99% of the ~1MM MDs are vaccinated).

Also, given how many of you are fond of saying that the vaccines are just a financial play by "Pharma" how would you then explain Merck, the company that pioneered ivermectin issuing the following, stating that ivermectin has no known clinical efficacy for COVID (and a lack of safety data at the doses used by some), when doing so reduces a potentially large income stream?

And every medical regulatory body in the world (not just the US) has failed to authorize or approved ivermectin to prevent or treat COVID-19 in humans (and has raised major safety concerns in using ivermectin for COVID-19; us of ivermectin was all off-label). But somehow you and a few quacks know better. smh.

https://www.merck.com/news/merck-statement-on-ivermectin-use-during-the-covid-19-pandemic/

KENILWORTH, N.J., Feb. 4, 2021 – Merck (NYSE: MRK), known as MSD outside the United States and Canada, today affirmed its position regarding use of ivermectin during the COVID-19 pandemic. Company scientists continue to carefully examine the findings of all available and emerging studies of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 for evidence of efficacy and safety. It is important to note that, to-date, our analysis has identified:

  • No scientific basis for a potential therapeutic effect against COVID-19 from pre-clinical studies;
  • No meaningful evidence for clinical activity or clinical efficacy in patients with COVID-19 disease, and;
  • A concerning lack of safety data in the majority of studies.
We do not believe that the data available support the safety and efficacy of ivermectin beyond the doses and populations indicated in the regulatory agency-approved prescribing information.
It's a puzzlement, Numb3rs. Hey, the other day they were playing "Convoy" on the radio and I thought, "That is the same sentiment that exists today, only greatly multiplied."
 
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I posted this in the Football Board thread on this subject.

PSA for Everyone:

Not only do I work on several pediatric cardiovascular conditions which are commonly fatal, but I also buy millions and millions of dollars of patient claims and EHR data. There has been no change in the rate of heart conditions and/or deaths of people 25 and under at least through March 31, 2023. This is based on data from about 300 million patients throughout the US (over the past 5 years).

Take this fact as you will. But it is a fact, no matter how much someone whines or complains.
 
Show me one peer-reviewed RCT that shows ivermectin is effective against SARS-CoV-2. Hint: you can't. I also doubt there are "thousands" of doctors who think ivermectin works (~1% of MDs would be ~1000 and >99% of the ~1MM MDs are vaccinated).

Also, given how many of you are fond of saying that the vaccines are just a financial play by "Pharma" how would you then explain Merck, the company that pioneered ivermectin issuing the following, stating that ivermectin has no known clinical efficacy for COVID (and a lack of safety data at the doses used by some), when doing so reduces a potentially large income stream?

And every medical regulatory body in the world (not just the US) has failed to authorize or approved ivermectin to prevent or treat COVID-19 in humans (and has raised major safety concerns in using ivermectin for COVID-19; us of ivermectin was all off-label). But somehow you and a few quacks know better. smh.

https://www.merck.com/news/merck-statement-on-ivermectin-use-during-the-covid-19-pandemic/

KENILWORTH, N.J., Feb. 4, 2021 – Merck (NYSE: MRK), known as MSD outside the United States and Canada, today affirmed its position regarding use of ivermectin during the COVID-19 pandemic. Company scientists continue to carefully examine the findings of all available and emerging studies of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 for evidence of efficacy and safety. It is important to note that, to-date, our analysis has identified:

  • No scientific basis for a potential therapeutic effect against COVID-19 from pre-clinical studies;
  • No meaningful evidence for clinical activity or clinical efficacy in patients with COVID-19 disease, and;
  • A concerning lack of safety data in the majority of studies.
We do not believe that the data available support the safety and efficacy of ivermectin beyond the doses and populations indicated in the regulatory agency-approved prescribing information.
I’m not a doctor. I do not review medical studies. However, I do listen to my doctor and my pharmacist. I think everyone will agree that every single thing you put into your body has side effects. Even Tylenol for goodness sakes. It blows my mind that people are so willing and eager to defend this vaccine and it’s boosters without any lengthy testing and without knowing the long term consequences. It is way beyond me. Normally vaccine research and approval take years. But to each his own…just don’t force your beliefs on me. I certainly understand why you would defend the vaccine. Additionally, everyone should have had a choice, these vaccines should have never been mandated. FWIW, I was vaccinated and I regret it everyday. Yes, I am one of the vaccine injured. But there is nothing I can do about that now, is there?
 
It's a puzzlement, Numb3rs. Hey, the other day they were playing "Convoy" on the radio and I thought, "That is the same sentiment that exists today, only greatly multiplied."
In case you haven't seen it, this is a really good read on the development (since at least the Reagan era) of conservative mistrust of sciences being solidly rooted in conservative mistrust of government, especially when those scientific recommendations involve government actions, which they feel restrict free markets and freedom (climate science and COVID science fall into this category).

https://direct.mit.edu/daed/article/151/4/98/113706/From-Anti-Government-to-Anti-Science-Why
 
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In case you haven't seen it, this is a really good read on the development (since at least the Reagan era) of conservative mistrust of sciences being solidly rooted in conservative mistrust of government, especially when those scientific recommendations involve government actions, which they feel restrict free markets and freedom (climate science and COVID science fall into this category).

https://direct.mit.edu/daed/article/151/4/98/113706/From-Anti-Government-to-Anti-Science-Why
Not really interested but thanks anyway. I think it is our patriotic duty to question what the government tells us, no matter what side of the aisle you are on. There are many tragic historical examples of what happened when people did not. I am tired of beating a dead horse so I am considering our convo finished. We are both entitled to our opinions and I respect yours. Have a good evening.
 
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Not really interested but thanks anyway. I think it is our patriotic duty to question what the government tells us, no matter what side of the aisle you are on. There are many tragic historical examples of what happened when people did not. Let me ask you and the vax defenders a serious question. If Trump won in 2020 and it was his CDC pushing this vax, would you have been so quick to take it and defend it’s efficacy?
Originally, it was his CDC pushing the vax. And I took the vax. And as long as the people at the CDC were respected scientists, I would have no trouble believing what they were saying.

But it wasn't just the CDC, as RU8848789 points out and links. It's our most respected medical societies and professional organizations, and their publications. In order for this to be a fraud, thousands of career scientists, dedicated to the truth, would have to have been bought out somehow. I teach at a large university with an excellent medical school. I know these folks, and knew many at RU when I taught there. They aren't frauds. They aren't sellouts.

We have decades of research on vaccines. They work. They saved countless lives during this pandemic. And yes, there are some negative reactions and I'm truly sorry for you that you have had a medical problem with your experience. But the data here are just undeniable. The vaccines saved millions of lives worldwide.
 
I’m not a doctor. I do not review medical studies. However, I do listen to my doctor and my pharmacist. I think everyone will agree that every single thing you put into your body has side effects. Even Tylenol for goodness sakes. It blows my mind that people are so willing and eager to defend this vaccine and it’s boosters without any lengthy testing and without knowing the long term consequences. It is way beyond me. Normally vaccine research and approval take years. But to each his own…just don’t force your beliefs on me. I certainly understand why you would defend the vaccine. Additionally, everyone should have had a choice, these vaccines should have never been mandated. FWIW, I was vaccinated and I regret it everyday. Yes, I am one of the vaccine injured. But there is nothing I can do about that now, is there?
Why exactly do you regret it?

Sounds like you had Covid. It helped you. More than the horse paste.
 
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Not really interested but thanks anyway. I think it is our patriotic duty to question what the government tells us, no matter what side of the aisle you are on. There are many tragic historical examples of what happened when people did not. I am tired of beating a dead horse so I am considering our convo finished. We are both entitled to our opinions and I respect yours. Have a good evening.
Literally made no difference who was in office. It was the quickest way out of the pandemic, lockdowns, etc.

The vaccine started rolling out in late 2020, anyway. Trump was still in office.
 
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Not really interested but thanks anyway. I think it is our patriotic duty to question what the government tells us, no matter what side of the aisle you are on. There are many tragic historical examples of what happened when people did not. I am tired of beating a dead horse so I am considering our convo finished. We are both entitled to our opinions and I respect yours. Have a good evening.
You edited out this: "Let me ask you and the vax defenders a serious question. If Trump won in 2020 and it was his CDC pushing this vax, would you have been so quick to take it and defend it’s efficacy?" The answer is absolutely, as I was a huge proponent of the vaccines from day one - in fact, I predicted in April 2020 that we'd have emergency approval for the vaccines by the end of 2020, as the vaccines were looking very good already in April 2020 and I was confident the government would help make this happen and then we got Warp Speed in May 2020.

I frequently gave the Trump administration kudos for their efforts to bring the vaccines to market, since the science was looking so good all along. There are countless posts of mine that said all this, but it appears you only joined the site recently (I can link a few of these if you like). And we completely agree on questioning the government - I do it all the time and waited patiently for the clinical trial results and the FDA evaluation, evaluating the efficacy and safety data and other key sections of the filing very closely (I've written and reviewed major portions of numerous FDA filings).
 
Moderators - What ya think? This is a basketball forum. Is it time to shut this down and move it to the Board dominated by all the crazy conspiracy theorists? Oh - I forgot - the moderators seem to be charter members of that group. 🤪
So,

You're saying I shouldn't listen to my next door neighbor who so happens to be my medical doctor. And I shouldn't listen to my friends and family who are directors and vp's at major pharmaceutical companies who work on drug development. And I shouldn't listen to one of my best friends who runs an ICU unit at a major hospital. I should trust people like Rochelle Walensky and Anthony Fauci when it comes to the Covid vaccine. Btw, I'm vaccinated and wouldn't have done it if I knew what I know now.

If everyone would just have listened to the CDC director, Rochelle Walensky, no one would have caught Covid.


And this was another great interview from Anthony Fauci.

 
So,

You're saying I shouldn't listen to my next door neighbor who so happens to be my medical doctor. And I shouldn't listen to my friends and family who are directors and vp's at major pharmaceutical companies who work on drug development. And I shouldn't listen to one of my best friends who runs an ICU unit at a major hospital. I should trust people like Rochelle Walensky and Anthony Fauci when it comes to the Covid vaccine. Btw, I'm vaccinated and wouldn't have done it if I knew what I know now.

If everyone would just have listened to the CDC director, Rochelle Walensky, no one would have caught Covid.


And this was another great interview from Anthony Fauci.

Or, you know, the millions of other doctors who did in fact recommend it and take it themselves.
 
You edited out this: "Let me ask you and the vax defenders a serious question. If Trump won in 2020 and it was his CDC pushing this vax, would you have been so quick to take it and defend it’s efficacy?" The answer is absolutely, as I was a huge proponent of the vaccines from day one - in fact, I predicted in April 2020 that we'd have emergency approval for the vaccines by the end of 2020, as the vaccines were looking very good already in April 2020 and I was confident the government would help make this happen and then we got Warp Speed in May 2020.

I frequently gave the Trump administration kudos for their efforts to bring the vaccines to market, since the science was looking so good all along. There are countless posts of mine that said all this, but it appears you only joined the site recently (I can link a few of these if you like). And we completely agree on questioning the government - I do it all the time and waited patiently for the clinical trial results and the FDA evaluation, evaluating the efficacy and safety data and other key sections of the filing very closely (I've written and reviewed major portions of numerous FDA filings).
I edited it because I knew you would come back with an entire dissertation once again trying to prove your point. Yawn. I was over this 2 hours ago. Have a good evening.
 
I edited it because I knew you would come back with an entire dissertation once again trying to prove your point. Yawn. I was over this 2 hours ago. Have a good evening.
Shorter: my main point was my confidence in the vaccines had zero to do with politics and everything to do with the science at that time - likely contrary to what you thought my answer might be (or else you wouldn't have asked it).
 
Some good info from the Director of the Ciccarone Center for Prevention of Cardiovascular Disease at Johns Hopkins University a former college lacrosse player and sports enthusiast. Nothing earth shattering, but getting the thread back on track.

 
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Or, you know, the millions of other doctors who did in fact recommend it and take it themselves.

Sure,

I'll listen to the people I trust and you listen to who you'd like. My point has always been there isn't a consensus with this stuff, especially for young, healthy people.
 
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Originally, it was his CDC pushing the vax. And I took the vax. And as long as the people at the CDC were respected scientists, I would have no trouble believing what they were saying.

But it wasn't just the CDC, as RU8848789 points out and links. It's our most respected medical societies and professional organizations, and their publications. In order for this to be a fraud, thousands of career scientists, dedicated to the truth, would have to have been bought out somehow. I teach at a large university with an excellent medical school. I know these folks, and knew many at RU when I taught there. They aren't frauds. They aren't sellouts.

We have decades of research on vaccines. They work. They saved countless lives during this pandemic. And yes, there are some negative reactions and I'm truly sorry for you that you have had a medical problem with your experience. But the data here are just undeniable. The vaccines saved millions of lives worldwide.

The cdc director went on tv and flat out lied to us

Thats part of the reason why there is mistrust among other horrific messaging blunders
 
Literally made no difference who was in office. It was the quickest way out of the pandemic, lockdowns, etc.

The vaccine started rolling out in late 2020, anyway. Trump was still in office.
Trump fast tracked the vaccine. He probably broke many rules in doing so. I’m actually amazed how many people flip flopped on this subject since 2020. Both sides. I stayed the course and know the vaccines were beneficial. Way more than testing and infinitely more than masks. But the virus still mutated and ran its course. Glad it’s over.
 
So you just continue to make insulting remarks. I get it. You do you.
That guy the biggest pussy here, keyboard warrior who would shit his pants in person

There are two, one is the real old guy and other is this guy who doesn't live in Jersey

Another poster sent me his info, when I'm out there (sept) will give him a visit
 
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Shorter: my main point was my confidence in the vaccines had zero to do with politics and everything to do with the science at that time - likely contrary to what you thought my answer might be (or else you wouldn't have asked it).
The entire debate is not so much about an individual’s mistrust in vaccines produced by modern science, it was a push back against the lies told early on and the attempts to squash opinions of people who thought perhaps differently about this covid 19 issue. It is a fact MSM had a vested interest in that . It is blatantly obvious this is still the goal.
 
You edited out this: "Let me ask you and the vax defenders a serious question. If Trump won in 2020 and it was his CDC pushing this vax, would you have been so quick to take it and defend it’s efficacy?" The answer is absolutely, as I was a huge proponent of the vaccines from day one - in fact, I predicted in April 2020 that we'd have emergency approval for the vaccines by the end of 2020, as the vaccines were looking very good already in April 2020 and I was confident the government would help make this happen and then we got Warp Speed in May 2020.

I frequently gave the Trump administration kudos for their efforts to bring the vaccines to market, since the science was looking so good all along. There are countless posts of mine that said all this, but it appears you only joined the site recently (I can link a few of these if you like). And we completely agree on questioning the government - I do it all the time and waited patiently for the clinical trial results and the FDA evaluation, evaluating the efficacy and safety data and other key sections of the filing very closely (I've written and reviewed major portions of numerous FDA filings).
I am a never Trumper but he deserves all the credit for the great work on the vaccines. It happened on his watch, kudos to The Donald.
 
That guy the biggest pussy here, keyboard warrior who would shit his pants in person

There are two, one is the real old guy and other is this guy who doesn't live in Jersey

Another poster sent me his info, when I'm out there (sept) will give him a visit
Still seething over some bullshit forum post from a year ago?

Seek help.
 
I am a never Trumper but he deserves all the credit for the great work on the vaccines. It happened on his watch, kudos to The Donald.
Everyone needs to think like you do here. First, everyone should vote or not vote for whoever they want to. Issues like this should not be left or right. I don’t love Trump either and while you give him all of the credit I will say he did a good job on this issue and the economy. Whether you are left or right I personally think we should all agree defunding the police rhetoric was the worst idea among a long list of terrible political ideas. Abortion should not be left or right either. A lot of Catholics are Dems but the media makes it a left v right issue as do our stellar politicians. Bottom line is they all get rich while people fight over issues they created. Everyone needs to wake up and see the but many cannot.
 
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The cdc director went on tv and flat out lied to us

Thats part of the reason why there is mistrust among other horrific messaging blunders
She way overstated the case, but the CDC walked it back the next day. People make mistakes, even those in senior positions. If she had continued with misleading guidance (like Trump did for months early in the pandemic, but I don't see you posting his misleading/false statements), then you'd have a much more serious issue.

And she wasn't far off with regard to the vaccines nearly stopping transmission, as cases had dropped from 200-300K/day in the winter to around 10,000/day by June 2021, after more than half of the country had been vaccinated and most experts think that we could have snuffed out the pandemic completely if the virus didn't evolve/mutate into delta and omicron later in 2021.

It was only the mutation to variants that are 3-5X more infectious than the original strain that likely kept the vaccines from keeping the pandemic at bay. Fortunately, the vaccines didn't lose their effectiveness at preventing severe COVID/death.
 
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She way overstated the case, but the CDC walked it back the next day. People make mistakes, even those in senior positions. If she had continued with misleading guidance (like Trump did for months early in the pandemic, but I don't see you posting his misleading/false statements), then you'd have a much more serious issue.

And she wasn't far off with regard to the vaccines nearly stopping transmission, as cases had dropped from 200-300K/day in the winter to around 10,000/day by June 2021, after more than half of the country had been vaccinated and most experts think that we could have snuffed out the pandemic completely if the virus didn't evolve/mutate into delta and omicron later in 2021.

It was only the mutation to variants that are 3-5X more infectious than the original strain that likely kept the vaccines from keeping the pandemic at bay. Fortunately, the vaccines didn't lose their effectiveness at preventing severe COVID/death.

Nice try

The use of the term "breakthrough infections" sealed it for me
 
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