Concerns

[Scangg]

The game recap article on here said Mike Williams continued his "hot streak" shooting 5-17 from the field. Only at Rutgers is that considered a hot streak come onnnn. We won't win any games with a team shooting percentage in the 20s no matter how well/hard we play on D. If we can't get anything good in the half court I would like to see more secondary breaks where sanders or Johnson pushes when it's not a clear fast back. Before the D gets set they might be able to get to the basket or force help and lead to some early easy offense. Have to find some way to score more than 50 points a game. I can't believe every team doesn't have at minimum one pure shooting zone buster

Some of the freeman analysis has been spot on. As an undersized tweener that can't finish around the rim in the B1G, he must develop an outside shot or he needs to go to the bench. He passes up wide open elbow jumpers which he should be able to consistently make.

That said I still LOVE Coach P and the staff and the improvements seen in the program. Some of these games Nigel and sanders will both have good games on the same night which will free up the rest of the players and combined with tough D should lead to a couple wins in the B1G and some more stronger showings. A couple upsets would really help the staff sell the turnaround to recruits

 

[BigEastPhil]

We can't shoot; we don't have a true PG and we're undersized.

This is what it boils down to.

Pikiell is very much concerned about the need for true PG's.

 

[goru7]

We can't shoot; we don't have a true PG and we're undersized.

This is what it boils down to.

Pikiell is very much concerned about the need for true PG's.

We are not undersized. We have a really good point guard and a decent backup and both can do a much better job distributing to their teammates.

 

[bac2therac]

We are not undersized. We have a really good point guard and a decent backup and both can do a much better job distributing to their teammates.

our guards are undersized compared to the rest of the league, thats a huge issue and we most certainly are undersized with Freeman and our bigs who are not undersized are underskilled compared to the rest of the league in the paint. We will rely on them for defense but cannot count on them for offense so how do our small guards score against bigger guys especially when they are not good shooters especially from 3

 

[ImBadRU]

We need tall guards asap.

 

[goru7]

our guards are undersized compared to the rest of the league, thats a huge issue and we most certainly are undersized with Freeman and our bigs who are not undersized are underskilled compared to the rest of the league in the paint. We will rely on them for defense but cannot count on them for offense so how do our small guards score against bigger guys especially when they are not good shooters especially from 3

They break them down. Both Corey and Nigel can beat their man off the dribble. What they have to do once they break down and beat their man, they have to look to pass first to the bigs or to Mike or Issa , who are hopefully in the right spot to catch and shoot. They are looking to go all the way to the hole, which they should only do if their path to the hoop is free, when they should pass and pull up for the mid range shot, where the bigger size of some of the Big 10 will not affect them.
CJ, Shaquille, Deshawn, Candido, Eugene and Ibrahim are one of the biggest front lines in the league and around the country. Undersized is not accurate but under skilled is probably true. Our height, length and blocked shots impact what our opponents offense will do. We have to continue to get the ball on the block to our bigs and play inside out.

 

[BigEastPhil]

We are not undersized. We have a really good point guard and a decent backup and both can do a much better job distributing to their teammates.

We do not have a really good PG nor a decent backup. There is a reason why Pikiell and staff went after Baker and will have another new PG next year as well.

 

[cyrock3]

No one saying that Geo Baker coming in is going to save the team is an "expert." Quotes or otherwise.

This team needs time. Period. They either get better at shooting, or they don't. They got good looks during the game against PSU. They just didn't hit them.

I'm happy with the defensive effort being exhibited. That's good enough for me, and if they keep this up throughout the season they might steal a game or two.

I'm still happy with what I'm seeing. 14-0 run aside. That part of the game was one where I felt they gave up. I do think Pike eventually got them to rediscover their fight, which was great on his part. It was also encouraging to me that he was able to reach them.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

The biggest concern, to me, is that a really bad shooting team to begin with is in a shooting slump.

Sanders has completely loss his shot

Thiam has lost confidence (probably based on concern of getting shot off)

Johnson is struggling with what is a good shot and what isn't. Doesn't seem to be fitting in with the flow off the offense. His shot also has side spin.

 

[RUChoppin]

Can't hit shots, and make some really bad decisions at times (that often lead to turnovers, or just bad shots... which end up ending possessions, anyway). There's no respect for any shooter outside the paint, so defenses are preventing the ball from getting inside and collapsing once it does... which limits the shots/points of our frontcourt, and cuts into rebounding.

Without shooters that don't need to be within 5 feet of the rim, it's going to be a long road this year.

Looking at the offense, we've played just 4 teams that Sagarin or kenpom have in the top 150... and we've averaged just 55.3 points. No matter how good the defense is, we're not holding the rest of our schedule to under 55 points/game.

And goru7, back to our convo about three point shooting... we're now averaging 4.8/game on the season. Over the last 4 games, we're averaging 4.3/game. Against the teams with a pulse (Miami, SHU, Wisconsin, PA St), we're averaging 4.0/game.

I still think we'll win 4-6 conference games, but looking more like the low end of that range right now.

 

[willisneverrana43]

The biggest concern, to me, is that a really bad shooting team to begin with is in a shooting slump.

Sanders has completely loss his shot

Thiam has lost confidence (probably based on concern of getting shot off)

Johnson is struggling with what is a good shot and what isn't. Doesn't seem to be fitting in with the flow off the offense. His shot also has side spin.

It's no coincidence that these things happened when the competition stepped up to another level. When you have quicker and bigger guys inside who can block and strip you, you start to look like Freeman does down low, and you miss chippies like Gettys has, because you are rushing. And Thiam can't stop to take a sip of his tea before he launches his chest high jumper anymore. And so on. Sure, you can argue that these players have to adjust. But in a sense you're essentially arguing that they have to be more talented. Other than Thiam, given he's as new to this as it gets, I'm not sure how much better they will get at this. Whoever said that RU has to stick to the D and rebounding and hope to get hot to steal games is right. Still, the losses are better than they used to be--at least so far--and it seems we are getting coached. With better recruiting, that will eventually show wins in the B1G.

 

[bac2therac]

It's no coincidence that these things happened when the competition stepped up to another level. When you have quicker and bigger guys inside who can block and strip you, you start to look like Freeman does down low, and you miss chippies like Gettys has, because you are rushing. And Thiam can't stop to take a sip of his tea before he launches his chest high jumper anymore. And so on. Sure, you can argue that these players have to adjust. But in a sense you're essentially arguing that they have to be more talented. Other than Thiam, given he's as new to this as it gets, I'm not sure how much better they will get at this. Whoever said that RU has to stick to the D and rebounding and hope to get hot to steal games is right. Still, the losses are better than they used to be--at least so far--and it seems we are getting coached. With better recruiting, that will eventually show wins in the B1G.

agree...see this is what you, I, Choppin and a few others were worried about. Those stats I posted in the 4 games against real competition for Johnson and Freeman look ugly. Now an optimism says we are playing solid defense, the shots will eventually fall and we wont shoot 3-20 from 3, nope...the realist is going to say this team is what it is, hard workers on defense and all the little things but just a team that cannot shoot or is just not talented or big enough to bang and outphysical anyone for points. For me Penn State was a big measuring stick, could it be they just totally laid an egg and are not as bad as they showed...well I guess but probably unlikely, it was the first home game of the year and packed crowd and they came out flat and then their performance throughout was just a step or two behind a very mediocre Penn State. Ive seen Nebraska, Minnesota, Iowa, and Northwestern play....those are the winnable home games. They all have the ability to raise their game to a level that RU doesnt have. Need to hope these teams take RU lightly and RU gives their A games to beat them. Based on talent, RU is last in the league, even a good coach like Pikiell cannot change that until he recruits recruits recruits

 

[koko2315]

For me, it's not the FG% per se, but the shot selection. Defense I am overly happy with. Effort for the most part is there. Rebounding, check. They need to learn to run that offense and get quality looks. THe shooting woes take care of themselves once the looks get better.

 

[RUJMM78]

our guards are undersized compared to the rest of the league, thats a huge issue and we most certainly are undersized with Freeman and our bigs who are not undersized are underskilled compared to the rest of the league in the paint. We will rely on them for defense but cannot count on them for offense so how do our small guards score against bigger guys especially when they are not good shooters especially from 3

It continues to amaze me that fans have such differing opinions on something as easy to see,ie,height of players as compared to the opposition.

 

[RUChoppin]

This is highly unscientific, as it's just going by the sports-reference heights/positions listings and different teams use different lineups (which can be inaccurate)... but... some perspective on heights vs. minutes played...

Average heights of the three guards with the most minutes played/game, by team:
6-4.3 - Minnesota
6-4 - Iowa
6-3.7 - Maryland, Illinois
6-3.3 - Northwestern, Michigan
6-2.7 - PA St, Indiana, OSU
6-2.3 - MSU
6-2 - Wisconsin
6-1.7 - RU
6-1.3 - Nebraska, Purdue

So, Sanders/Johnson/Williams are third to last in average height among the top three guards (in minutes played) for each conference team. We have 3 players listed 6-2 or shorter among our top 3 guards. Nebraska, Purdue, OSU, and Wisconsin each have 2 (with a third player who is 6-4 plus), while the rest of the league has just one each.

Average heights of the three bigs with the most minutes played/game, by team:
6-10.3 - Maryland
6-9.3 - Michigan, RU, Purdue
6-9 - Illinois
6-8.3 - Indiana, Minnesota
6-8 - Iowa, Wisconsin
6-7.3 - Nebraska
6-7 - PA St, Northwestern, MSU
6-6 - OSU

So, Freeman/Gettys/Sa are tied for second tallest in average height among the top three guards (in minutes played) for each conference team. Note: this is going with Freeman's listed height of 6-7, which many on the board have said is generous by 1-2 inches.

Illinois, MSU, OSU and PA St are the only other conference teams who don't have anyone taller than 6-7 among the top four players in min/game. Again, ours is Freeman... if you list him at 6-6 rather than 6-7, without adjusting any other 6-7 players across the conference, we'd be the only team without a player 6-7 or taller among the four players who see the most minutes.

 

[goru7]

Can't hit shots, and make some really bad decisions at times (that often lead to turnovers, or just bad shots... which end up ending possessions, anyway). There's no respect for any shooter outside the paint, so defenses are preventing the ball from getting inside and collapsing once it does... which limits the shots/points of our frontcourt, and cuts into rebounding.

Without shooters that don't need to be within 5 feet of the rim, it's going to be a long road this year.

Looking at the offense, we've played just 4 teams that Sagarin or kenpom have in the top 150... and we've averaged just 55.3 points. No matter how good the defense is, we're not holding the rest of our schedule to under 55 points/game.

And goru7, back to our convo about three point shooting... we're now averaging 4.8/game on the season. Over the last 4 games, we're averaging 4.3/game. Against the teams with a pulse (Miami, SHU, Wisconsin, PA St), we're averaging 4.0/game.

I still think we'll win 4-6 conference games, but looking more like the low end of that range right now.

Ru Choppin, you are correct we have not shot well enough, making 3-16, 3-10, 7-18, and 3-20 against Miami, Seton Hall, Wisconsin, and Penn State, and thus the losses scoring only 61, 61, 52 and 47. Not going to win many games scoring in that range no matter how good our defense has been. Turnovers have doomed us in 3 of 4 of those games. However, Mike has made 3 average in those games so I am hopeful he hits at least 3 and hopefully more per game. This brings us back to my point that if we make 6 per game we will have a chance to win the games. Shoot, if we make even 1-2 more we likely beat Seton Hall, and we bring the Penn State and Miami games to the wire . Miami I will give you our shooting was affected by their length but not Penn State where we could hardly make any shot let alone a three. The only reason we were in the Wisconsin game is because we hit 7 and they only hit 5 but we made our second half run when Mike and Nigel hit 2 each. I am pretty confident Mike will hit 3 per game but the issue is where are the other 3 going to come from. Leaving the excessive turnovers aside, which I really believe is why we lost to Wisconsin and Penn State, if we do not shoot better , we will not have a chance. I am hoping everybody except Mike is capable of shooting better and will as the season progresses.

 

[mrslate]

It's better than the football season, at least so far.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

The biggest concern, to me, is that a really bad shooting team to begin with is in a shooting slump.

Sanders has completely loss his shot

Thiam has lost confidence (probably based on concern of getting shot off)

Johnson is struggling with what is a good shot and what isn't. Doesn't seem to be fitting in with the flow off the offense. His shot also has side spin.

Nailed it

This is a sign in the half court that guys don't know naturally where their shots are coming from

 

[RUChoppin]

I am pretty confident Mike will hit 3 per game but the issue is where are the other 3 going to come from.

Confident he'll hit 3 per game going forward? He's hit 3+ in a game four times this year out of 15 games, and one of those was Molloy. He's hit 1 or 0 six times out of those same 15 games.

We are what we are right now from the arc.

As for turnovers, I have some more confidence that Pike and staff can get that cleaned up a bit. Still, we've had 15+ turnovers in 8 of 15 games, including the last 4 in a row. We average 14.7 turnovers on the road and 12.6 at home. For comparison, in 2014-15 we averaged 13.5 on the road and 12.3 at home.

 

[willisneverrana43]

. . . I am hopeful he hits at least 3 . . . .

I am pretty confident Mike will hit 3 per game . . . .

A unique look into how unrealistic opinions are formed. Just wait a bit and become more certain of it.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

All turnovers are not equal. From what I see we have only 1 player who truly is looking to get the ball to others in the right spot. we had 5 assists against PSU. If Eugene or others are going to try a difficult pass that could lead to an easy layup if executed AND the success rate is high it is not a bad turnover if it doesn't work. Guys leaving their feet to make a pass is a different story.

 

[goru7]

A unique look into how unrealistic opinions are formed. Just wait a bit and become more certain of it.

How many did he hit in the last 4? I think the average is 3, is it not? Against FORDHAM, SETON HALL, WISCONSIN, AND PENN STATE, pretty representable of the teams we will play from here on out .

 

[RUChoppin]

How many did he hit in the last 4? I think the average is 3, is it not? Against FORDHAM, SETON HALL, WISCONSIN, AND PENN STATE, pretty representable of the teams we will play from here on out .

That's a hasty generalization fallacy - trying to draw conclusions about the whole by looking at a small sample size. His average is 2.8 over the last four games... and over the four prior to that, it was 1.0

Only two players in the conference right now are averaging 3/game, and only four averaging over 2.5/game.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

lol @ some of these posts, sorry, I really don't know what some of you guys were expecting. PSU is a much better team - period - and we played one of the softest OOC's in the history of basketball this year. Pikes did what we needed him to do during that part of the schedule: beat EVERY team we should have beaten, however, we are NOT a talented team. For crying out loud we still miss 7-10 layups EVERY FREAKIN' GAME lol!

I said last week some of you were asking for a minor miracle to get past 15 wins and I'm standing by that. We'll be very, very lucky to get to 14, let alone 15, if that. We've just got a long, long way to go, and once some posters start to realize this and understand it, you'll feel a tad better. I promise! [cheers]

 

[bac2therac]

PSU is not that much better, In fact they have had two horrible losses, this was the most winnable game, very disappointing to lay an egg, this wasnt because PSU did anything, its because RU bricked every shot and lost its focus, it was Hartford all over again.

I guess you expect to go 0-18 this year

 

[willisneverrana43]

How many did he hit in the last 4? I think the average is 3, is it not? Against FORDHAM, SETON HALL, WISCONSIN, AND PENN STATE, pretty representable of the teams we will play from here on out .

How about the last 5?

I believe you've offered us another unique glimpse on how unrealistic positions are formed. It will be informative as the season progresses to return to your scientifically selected "pretty representative" set of 4 games and consider its predictive accuracy and validity.

 

[ColonelRutgers]

lol @ some of these posts, sorry, I really don't know what some of you guys were expecting. PSU is a much better team - period - and we played one of the softest OOC's in the history of basketball this year. Pikes did what we needed him to do during that part of the schedule: beat EVERY team we should have beaten, however, we are NOT a talented team. For crying out loud we still miss 7-10 layups EVERY FREAKIN' GAME lol!

I said last week some of you were asking for a minor miracle to get past 15 wins and I'm standing by that. We'll be very, very lucky to get to 14, let alone 15, if that. We've just got a long, long way to go, and once some posters start to realize this and understand it, you'll feel a tad better. I promise! [cheers]

Oddsmakers had us as 3 point favorites. It wasn't just posters that thought the Penn State game was winnable.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Oddsmakers had us as 3 point favorites. It wasn't just posters that thought the Penn State game was winnable.

Made no sense IMHO. They were 8-4 against the 33rd most difficult schedule in the nation. We were 11-2 against the 259th (going into the game). How we were "favored" is beyond me. Even at best, IMHO, due to HCA.

 

[bac2therac]

they lost to Albany and George Mason and were uncompetitive in a home loss to Northwestern. Yes RU should have been able to win at home...and that they started 0-10 proved that and RU sleptwalked through tthe game

sure the schedule was better but this isnt the type of program that you let walk into a packed gym on opening night and win

 

[AreYouNUTS]

they lost to Albany and George Mason and were uncompetitive in a home loss to Northwestern. Yes RU should have been able to win at home...and that they started 0-10 proved that and RU sleptwalked through tthe game

sure the schedule was better but this isnt the type of program that you let walk into a packed gym on opening night and win

Not saying that. All I'm saying is PSU was the better team, period, coming into the game. How we were favored, IMHO, is a little surprising (and obviously Vegas was very, very wrong...).

 

[ColonelRutgers]

Made no sense IMHO. They were 8-4 against the 33rd most difficult schedule in the nation. We were 11-2 against the 259th (going into the game). How we were "favored" is beyond me. Even at best, IMHO, due to HCA.

Whatever, winnable. That's the point. Vegas oddsmakers don't have a dog in the fight.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

I know they blew the lead tonight on the road at Michigan, and lost the game on top of it, but PSU is a better team than many here want to admit. Hate to say it.

 

[bac2therac]

what does that get them? 13th seed in this league...whooop dee damn do, they had a double digit lead and blew it. Winning counts in this league, its why Penn State has been at the bottom for so long.