A
Expansion 5 years later
- Thread starter rutger80
- Start date
This still feels great....
"The Scarlet Knights just wanted a lifeboat. They ended up on a Carnival cruise ship"
"The Scarlet Knights just wanted a lifeboat. They ended up on a Carnival cruise ship"
To clarify, my point was that Southern Pines takes great pride in its crown jewel: the Pine Needles Resort. And they really really really want all to know it is in Southern Pines. That said, the two communities are distinctly different: one is a mainstream, growing town with a diverse demographic; the other is a conservative retirement village that was founded as a private enterprise in 1895 (by a Bostonian family) and only became a public municipality in 1981. So, yes, the resort is monopolistic in terms of golf in the village, but the village was created by the resort.
I believe ND will be just fine no matter what happens.
They know if the ACC thing doesn't work out they will always have somewhere to go.
Derleider is still trying to tell me I'm wrong thst Rutgers to the big ten would happen as soon as ndame decided which confrence it would join and the big ten would know who to psir with Rutgers
Pac12 will again try to raid 4 from big12. Matter of when and not if...as before ...it all depends on Texas
I feel the complete opposite...I believe the term is "schadenfreude."
We were never them, nor they us. Despite their past successes, they were ultimately destined to fail.
If you haven't done so already, you will develop a deep disdain for the fan-bases of PSU, OSU, UM and perhaps one or two others.
As for UCONN and their poor play, last year, they did beat eventual conference champs UCF. But, as so many others have said, they're only a dozen years removed from in D2. They have more in common with Charlotte and all the other newcomers than they do with us.
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at the time of the WVU move everybody wanted out of the big east.....the offer from the big 12 seemed like a blessing, their lifeboat finally arrived.....immediately after they joined we heard rumblings about being unhappy with travel costs etc.....and I would suspect they wished
the acc came a calling instead, keeping with an eastern seaboard conference, more local rivals....
I still do not understand why any RU fan would want UNC and Virginia, eg, to become B1G members, aside from trying to destroy the
acc......you would be changing what I now consider a dream B1G eastern division, one that brings in a couple of big time teams into our house each year, to a ACC light.....of course our division would add UNC and Virginia, but you risk moving a Ohio state or Michigan or Michigan state
to the west...do we really want that?....
the way it is now, the home schedule has great teams coming here every year....I hope we never ever expand.
That's a great point Weezer. I want the eastern conference to stay with the power teams too. But at the same time I wish death to the ACC.
The only ACC school I'd really want in the B1G is Duke because of the overall package they'd bring to the conference - elite basketball, lacrosse, olympic sports, solid football, NC recruiting, elite academic prestige on the level of Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, MIT, Hopkins and Northwestern.
I like being hooked up for better or worse WITH PSU...really to us oldtimers they are in FB what we aspire to be and with a little state pride and right HC could be in short order. GS did know the formula but didn't finish the job!
Not for Nebraska's sudden availibility I think we would've been!?! I read somewhere a Chicago research firm that had been looking into it for 2 years said outside ND we would give best value.
Won't fall apart but with in the SEC footprint and propped by Espin money aren't gonna thrive either. The BE2 can just backfill after losing 2 or 3 more teams down the line. JMO. Like us though they have geography on their side unlike a better B12.
If a winning at all costs is want you aspire to be, there are many much more successful programs to emulate.
Remember WE tried to get Jopa here for years but got Dick Anderson instead so even our admins liked what they had as recently as the eighties. Many NJ residents are children of the Pennsy exodus of the post depression million who arrived in NJ in the thirties right through WW2 and have mixed loyalties that unfortunately die hard. We are who we are. PSU is more than a "win at all cost" school as much as i wish it weren't and were better than kids today seem to think.
Just read the times of the Ne to Big 10. Article is from the Omaha World Herald and interesting how they played the Big 12 until the Big 10 said come on over. You can find it if so inclined, just read it this past week.
The Domers were looking for the easiest rd to the playoffs and the prob of beating out OSU, PSU, Mi, Wisc and MSU was nil. Look back, they beat Mi about 35% of the time, MSU maybe half, don't think they ever beat OSU, (dodged that bullet real fightin irish way)
I doubt very much that nd wants psu in the A
I have very mixed feelings about adding Va & UNC. Yes, they would join the east division which would certainly increase our chances to win more conference games. On the other hand I do like knowing I'll get to see us play UM, MSU and OSU every year. I guess they could just move Indiana west and we would be still playing with the top B1G teams in our division. Ok, now that I analyzed this I don't want the B1G to expand. LOL
If Notre Dame ever finally becomes a FULL member of a conference, for whatever reason (most likely forced to because of money/access to bowl/playoffs .... Anyone who says it won't be the Big Ten that they join is clueless. Michigan, MSU, Purdue, Penn State, and yes even RU - all teams that they have a long history with. They play USC/Stanford as their big OOC game each year along with BC/Army/Navy as their mid major -ish game, plus some other game that rotates if they wanna do a neutral site with a big name team or play an easier game. It just makes too much sense.
Also, if they Add UNC and UVA, they would add them to our side and push Indiana over. We'd still have the old guard in our division. But, it would be a lot less often we play Wisconsin, Neb, and all the teams from the west.
Plus - 7 of the original Big 10 would be in the west division, and the east would be really the old guard OSU Mich MSU and 5 of the "new" guys (4 really new guys), so they might change up the divisions.
Plus - 7 of the original Big 10 would be in the west division, and the east would be really the old guard OSU Mich MSU and 5 of the "new" guys (4 really new guys), so they might change up the divisions.
They are not going to join the Big Ten. They associate themselves more with the ACC, which is full of smaller, more similar schools.
If the B10 added 2 schools to go to 16, they wouldn't have two 8-team divisions. They'd go to four 4-team pods. The big advantage of going to 16 teams is that you can go to a pod system.
With a 9-game conference schedule and two 8-team divisions, you play cross-division schools an average of once every 4 years and you play them at home an average of once every 8 years (even with 14 teams in two divisions, you play cross-divisional schools and average of once every 2.33 years, and at home once every 4.66 years). In a pod system, you play the teams outside your pod an average of once every 2 years, and you play them at home an average of once every 2 years.
Is your opening statement speculation or fact? The problem with the pod idea is the Big Ten will lose the opportunity to host a conference championship game, unless the ACC + Big 12 petition to deregulate the conference championship game passes. The rules for a conference championship game specifically specifies the conference must be split into 2 divisions. The "4-team pods" would only be a scheduling scheme instead of an organization structure.
The NCAA Manual link (PDF). On page 254 you will find the following:
http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/D115.pdf
The only way a "4 pod" could work is if 2 pods were joined to form 1 division and those pods rotate every several years. So one year we are in a division with Ohio State and the next year we are in a division with Nebraska.
The pod system, to me, would make matters worse if the B1G added UNC and UVA because we'd likely be in their pod along with Maryland. Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, and Michigan State would form another pod. Illinois, Northwestern, Indiana, and Purdue would be another while Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, and Nebraska would make the 4th. The Illinois - Indiana pod and ours would be the most lightly regarded on a national level, so in years where the two combined to make one division would be years where any accomplishments would be disregarded by many in the national media.
I'm sure I'm in the minority with this opinion. I'd much prefer to see the B1G expand with Missouri and Kansas instead of Virginia and North Carolina, which would likely result in Purdue getting pushed to the East.
I stopped cold many years years of hitting the ball really well.
I stopped cold many years ago after many years of hitting the ball really well.About a year or so later I decided to play again.The only problem was finding my swing again.Then I found a swing and then another swing etc ,etc., Never did get that old swing back and I kicked myself in the butt for stopping.In the past the ball normally went where I wanted it to go. After the "comeback" it went where IT wanted to go.
With future expansion it will be driven by TV and time zones.
If the B12 can raid the ACC they would be able to add more eastern time zone schools. if they could also grab a BYU or other mountain teams then they would cross 3 time zones. That is also the advantage for the _12 raiding the B12. Being able to provide programming from 11am until late at night is a good thing.
As for the B10 they may eventually add 2 more schools but it will be because the ACC is coming apart or after a number of years when RU and MD are fully integrated into the conference and receiving full shares of the revenue.
If the B12 can raid the ACC they would be able to add more eastern time zone schools. if they could also grab a BYU or other mountain teams then they would cross 3 time zones. That is also the advantage for the _12 raiding the B12. Being able to provide programming from 11am until late at night is a good thing.
As for the B10 they may eventually add 2 more schools but it will be because the ACC is coming apart or after a number of years when RU and MD are fully integrated into the conference and receiving full shares of the revenue.
I thought Missouri would go B1G and it seemed they wanted to, but the B1G didn't want them.
Doubt they'd leave the SEC for Big Ten Conference now, they seem to be doing pretty good in their division,
winning the SEC East last season
Instead of Kansas, Virginia would be my choice, but Kansas and Virginia ( on my opinion) are the two teams that might make the most sense in
making both B1G divisions competitive and not hurt the B1G East's strength as much as bringing in VA & NC.
I can't see the B1G expanding or Schools leaving the B-12 , unless the PAC pulls in Texas and Oklahoma.
Same with the ACC, FSU & Clemson would have to bolt before anyone would go.
I doubt the B1G would touch NC , for awhile, if it expanded.
I look for the Vitamin Conference to take UCF and either BYU or Cincy / Memphis, with BYU the most likely of the three.
giving it a conference championship game and ( maybe) stabilizing that conference enough to keep it from a PAC raid
while allowing Texas to do its own thing.
My comment that the B10 would go to pods is informed speculation.
Your comment about how pods would work (The only way a "4 pod" could work is if 2 pods were joined to form 1 division and those pods rotate every several years.) is exactly how it would work, except the pods would rotate annually.
Pods don't have to be strictly geographic. So Rutgers could be in a pod with PSU, MSU, and Illinois. Our "division" would contain one of the other pods every year, so we would still rotate through UM and OSU, and we'd see Neb and Wisc more often than we do now.
It wouldn't be once every 2 years, it would be a little better than once every three years. You would have to rotate each POD to play either other and then have x-division games.
IMO, if you go to a POD system, you should have three permanent cross-pod rivals for each team that you play each year. This would mean that you would play teams in your own pod every year, and three of your "rivals" every year. All other teams you would play once every three years. The rivals should be set up based on tradition as much as possible. If the addition is UVA and UNC, I see the pods as:
West - Nebraska, Minny, Iowa, Wisky
Lakes - NW, Illinois, Michigan, MSU
Valleys - OSU, Indy, Purdue, PSU
East - Rutgers, UNC, UVA, Maryland
X-division games
Rutgers - PSU, NW, Iowa
UNC - OSU, Illinois, Minny
UVA - Purdue, MSU, Nebraska
Maryland - Indy, Michigan, Wisky
OSU - UNC, Michigan, Minny
Indy - Maryland, NW, Wisky
Purdue - UVA, Illinois, Iowa
PSU - Rutgers, MSU, Nebraska
NW - Rutgers, Indy, Wisky
Illinois - UNC, Purdue, Nebraska
Michigan - Maryland, OSU, Iowa
MSU - UVA, PSU, Minny
Nebraska - UVA, PSU, Illinois
Minny - UNC, OSU, MSU
Iowa - Rutgers, Purdue, Michigan
Wisky - Maryland, Indy, NW
LOL. What I said was that if Rutgers made financial sense for the Big Ten, they would invite us immediately, since our main impact would be on the carriage fees, not the big TV deal. Since they hadn't, I assumed that they were going to wait for a few more years, maybe many more years, since obviously there was something that was preventing them from inviting us, and most of hte chips had already fallen. So my assessment was right - as we saw - we got invited right away once the triggering event happened - I was just wrong on the timing of the triggering event.
I mean really? I was arguing vigorously that RU would get invited to the Big Ten as soon as the BTN was announced and this is what you remember about my predictions?
As for the future - jive shows why I think conferences are slow to go to 16. Its a number where you either stop playing some teams that often (especially with an eight game schedule), or you play everyone frequently, but then dont have annual rivalries. At 16 with division you end up playing two teams from the other division - so you get the other division once every four years in a nine game conference schedule, and at home once every eight years. With pods, you get teams once every two years (12 teams, 6 non-pod games), but you lose alot of potential rivalries - our pod - probably MD, UVa/UNC, PSU (I cant imagine they would put all four new teams in one pod with no regional power in their) would mean we would lose 2 matchups wtih Michigan, OSU, MSU and Indiana every four years (in exchange for an extra game with Uva/UNC).
And frankly, I hope that the Big Ten never expands. UNC and UVa? Count me out. And god knows we would be playing them more and teams like Nebraska and Wisconsin (and maybe even OSU and Michigan) less.
Really I suspect it comes down to one ting though - does the current paradigm of bundled cable plans hold up until the GORs are nearing their end? If it does (in other words - if the Big Ten can count on getting a huge percentage of the TV households in VA and NC to pay for their network) then they will eventually expand.
If they cant (i.e. things go a la carte and popularity matters more than state population) then they wont - at least not with middling teams like UVA and UNC. So now that we are in, lets hope that a la carte and internet based viewing catches on (the Big Ten will still make out well here - since it has alot of population and is very popular regionally and nationally). We would likely pay more to watch RU football as fans, but we would get better matchups as well with no UNC or Uva.
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I hope everybody looks at your POD setup and then compares what our schedule would look like versus what we have now....
we should fight this long and hard...
absolutely the biggest buzzkill
The interesting thing is that, with pods, you can actually have up to 20 teams in the conference. Four pods, 5 teams per pod, two divisions. You would only play the teams in your current division which means that teams outside your pod you would play once ever three years (with a 9 game in-conference schedule). So instead of added 2 teams, the Big Ten would add 6. In that case, basketball would be a huge component as well. Imagine the following (adds are in bold):
West: Nebraska, Kansas, Iowa, Minny, Wisky
Lakes: Illinois, NW, Ohio State, Michigan, MSU (Michigan and OSU would need to stay together)
East: Purdue, Indy, PSU, Maryland, Rutgers
South: FSU, GT, Clemson, UNC, UVA
Kind of interesting, no? When the Lakes and the South get paired together, that would be one hell of a division.
West: Nebraska, Kansas, Iowa, Minny, Wisky
Lakes: Illinois, NW, Ohio State, Michigan, MSU (Michigan and OSU would need to stay together)
East: Purdue, Indy, PSU, Maryland, Rutgers
South: FSU, GT, Clemson, UNC, UVA
Kind of interesting, no? When the Lakes and the South get paired together, that would be one hell of a division.
There is nothing to fight, the presidents will do what is best for their school. If you add two (or six) excellent universities AND increase the conference payout, they would probably not waste much time in accepting the new members.
If popularity matters for subscribers then UNC may still be in play for hoops and not football. Lots of UNC fans are fanatical for their basketball program and would pay for the BTN to watch their team.
If the B10 wants to expand, add households, not disrupt the east / west balance, and make hoops stronger than they should add UNC and Kansas.
For hoops you would have UNC, Kansas, Mich St, Wisconsin, Ohio St, Indiana, and Michigan that are perennial tourney teams. It may have the affect that the ACC was hoping for by adding Louisville and Cuse.
If the B10 wants to expand, add households, not disrupt the east / west balance, and make hoops stronger than they should add UNC and Kansas.
For hoops you would have UNC, Kansas, Mich St, Wisconsin, Ohio St, Indiana, and Michigan that are perennial tourney teams. It may have the affect that the ACC was hoping for by adding Louisville and Cuse.
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I look at it as a sports fan only, looking at the resulting schedule.......when RU was invited to the big 10 I could not have asked for much more, again as a fan....your pod puts us in an ACC light division with an additional sprinkling of non interesting games....
If RU and company winding up with the 40 to 50 million dollar payout after the next tv deal is done, I would be fine with just that,
and not kill our schedule
we can add a bunch of teams for more money but the league suffers in other ways
The idea that ND would definitely, without a doubt, join the Big Ten is a total stretch as well. The only people that think it makes total sense seems to be Big Ten fans.
