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Flood is no longer to blame

yesrutgers01

yesrutgers01

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Yes, he failed. Yes, he did some stupid things and yes, he broke that foundation Greg built.

It is 4 years later and all of that should have been a distant memory. Any coach or leader worth even have a lick would have at least made things better. All of his blights some already be fading away.

Everyone is right to be mad/upset/pissed off at him. But the man following him is 10 times worse. And while I like Hobbs- in my book, he has to have hit a HR and figure a way to a bowl in 3 years. We ARE the worst team in any sport I have aver seen. And it is not on the kids. I don't even blame them for leaving. If it were my son, his NFL bound ass would have been in the portal and sitting in game 5 too.

That is all...my rant for the day.

Ash burned it all down. Hobbs either makes a quick fix or he jioins him in the same breath.
 
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The only thing I blame Flood for post-Flood is not bowling in 2016. Ash was hired to improve from the Flood era. Going 2-10 was entirely on Ash, see cut and paste below from my former post. Year 4 of Flood we scored 325 points. This year we are on pace to score 142, probably less as we scored 48 against UMass and Liberty is better. I have never scene on offense so inept and it is a shame.

Flood was 9-4 in his first year with a 3 point bowl loss to VT. 6-7 in year two with a loss to ND in the bowl, tied at the half. Year three 8-5 with a dominant win against NC in the bowl. 23- 16 and bowled each year. Year four was the 4-8 year and he is fired. Ash inherits a team with Laviano (60% completion and 16/12 TD/Int), Martin, Goodwin, Hicks, Harris, Patton, Grant and 3 and 4 star OL’s. D had Pinnix Odrick, Joseph, Hampton, Turay and others. Even year four of Ash and our best DL is a Flood recruit.
 
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Plum Street said:
Flood needed to be fired 2 years earlier . But if we kept him, we are in a better spot today than we are with ash.
Click to expand...
Agree or- could have gone a different route. Either fire him or give him support. We had an AD that wanted to rid herself of him at any cost. Even at the cost of our program. Even all of the things he ended up doing, was SELF reported. Almost every school in America does what he did but just better at making it work and keeping it in house. And if it gets out- deny it until it goes away.
He also had his weaknesses...we could have put more effort to help him with those weaknesses.

Regardless- Flood still ends up in our history book as a failure. That falls on him.
Ash just destroyed us from top to bottom. And even I was fooled enough to try to give him this year.
 
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Flood had a team on 2015 that should've bowl. 2 close loses to Wash St a d Matyland. He had a nice eye for O-Line talent. Had he stayed we bowl in 2016 and in MUCH better shape today.
 
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Obviously they both failed. But Flood was hired as a stop gap measure on the cheap. When you shop at harbor freight, don’t expect top of the line quality. Ash was supposed to be a legit DI candidate. He was paid well for a first time coach. And he failed miserably at every aspect of the job: recruiting, player development, game planning, in-game decisions, and staff building. That doesn’t even include shitting on the program’s history and driving away the fan base while his supporters were spitting out excuses like a pen dispenser. UVA and Cuse hired coaches the same year we hired Ash. How do the overall results compare?
 
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Stop with the Flood bashing. He as a good coach, especially on game day, but not the recruiter we expected.

Flood knew what it took to compete at this level & was willing to take some personal chances to make it happen but got caught.
 
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You can still blame Flood for killing the culture there was before him, Schiano, and the poor recruiting and the amount of decommitments he had from 2013-15. Don't you understand when Flood upperclassmen players teach new Ash players how to do things and your culture and coaching is already destroyed, there is a trickle down effect year after year. The bad habit things we saw on defense and offense under Flood and his coaches from 2013-15, we still see today from Ash players and coaching. Players learn more from older players than new coaches. From a top 5 defense in 2012 Flood's first year, the defense allowed 184 pts scored in 13 games (14 pts/gm., most in a game 35 vs Kent St.), a ready made 2006 team for him, started 7-0 and he finished 9-4, to 2013 AAC (5 times gave up 41 or more), 2014 B1G(37 or more 6 times), 2015 where they were a bottom 25 defense in FBS and finished 4-8, the defense allowed 419 pts in 12 games (35 pts/gm.), 3 more TDs a game 3 years later. Defensive culture is dead and buried.

Only reason Flood had as many coaching wins was Schiano offensive recruits like Juwan Jamison our last 1000 yd rusher 2012, Mark Harrison/Brandon Coleman 2012, 2012 Defense, Gary Nova 2012-14, RB by committee 2013-15, Leonte Carroo 2013-15, and his OL coaching.
 
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Rt18traffic said:
Obviously they both failed. But Flood was hired as a stop gap measure on the cheap. When you shop at harbor freight, don’t expect top of the line quality. Ash was supposed to be a legit DI candidate. He was paid well for a first time coach. And he failed miserably at every aspect of the job: recruiting, player development, game planning, in-game decisions, and staff building. That doesn’t even include shitting on the program’s history and driving away the fan base while his supporters were spitting out excuses like a pen dispenser. UVA and Cuse hired coaches the same year we hired Ash. How do the overall results compare?
Click to expand...

Pretty much agree with everything you said except that Ash was paid well. And he failed at a lot more things than what you listed.

Virginia hired Bronco Mendenhall at at a salary of $3.4 Million. Just guessing, but what Ash was paid was probably the top of the budget he was given, and that budget sucked and likely eliminated a lot of more qualified candidates. And the Virginia AD (none other than Craig Littlepage) absolutely bombed in his previous hire.

Pump the brakes on the Syracuse hire. Last year may have been a flash in the pan on the back of Dungey. Yeah, he is better than Ash was, but a wooden statue could have done better than Ash.
 
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Flood left the building in November 2015. Anyone blaming Flood for this disaster is barking up the wrong tree. And I miss the Flood on field performances. At least he won some games. Flood against Indiana 2-0. Since Ash was hired the Indiana record is 0-4 with a bunch of blowouts. That’s all you need to know.
 
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Plum Street said:
Flood needed to be fired 2 years earlier . But if we kept him, we are in a better spot today than we are with ash.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure about that mainly because the NCAA would have buried us- not necessarily because we were Baylor 5 years ago, but because we are almost the perfect target for the NCAA to flex its muscle on- P5 in a high-profile area with little to no institutional support and no power broker/ influence within the NCAA.


Joe P.
 
Although Schiano was not a good game day coach his teams were disciplined on and off the field(including academics)for the most part. Flood totally dismantled all of that and because of that he had to be fired(he was not a good game day coach either as he also had no feel for the game). Because he had to be fired that lead RU to hire Ash. So yes this is still Flood's fault. Now the only way Flood gets off the hook is if this next hire is a home run and RU goes on to football glory. Then RU can have a Kyle Flood day.
 
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Pils86 said:
The only thing I blame Flood for post-Flood is not bowling in 2016. Ash was hired to improve from the Flood era. Going 2-10 was entirely on Ash, see cut and paste below from my former post. Year 4 of Flood we scored 325 points. This year we are on pace to score 142, probably less as we scored 48 against UMass and Liberty is better. I have never scene on offense so inept and it is a shame.

Flood was 9-4 in his first year with a 3 point bowl loss to VT. 6-7 in year two with a loss to ND in the bowl, tied at the half. Year three 8-5 with a dominant win against NC in the bowl. 23- 16 and bowled each year. Year four was the 4-8 year and he is fired. Ash inherits a team with Laviano (60% completion and 16/12 TD/Int), Martin, Goodwin, Hicks, Harris, Patton, Grant and 3 and 4 star OL’s. D had Pinnix Odrick, Joseph, Hampton, Turay and others. Even year four of Ash and our best DL is a Flood recruit.
Click to expand...

We often talk about Flood only winning because of what Schiano left him. And while true, think about what is bolded and now think about what is left that Ash is handing off to the next coach.

And my OP is net meant to exonerate Flood at all but just wanted to say that I just don't want to hear from anyone again about Flood and where this program is now.
 
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JoeRU0304 said:
I'm not sure about that mainly because the NCAA would have buried us- not necessarily because we were Baylor 5 years ago, but because we are almost the perfect target for the NCAA to flex its muscle on- P5 in a high-profile area with little to no institutional support and no power broker/ influence within the NCAA.


Joe P.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure...maybe it is my memory going...could be but werent all of Flood's problems either School rules or self reported to the NCAA?
I don't think we were even on the radar. And again, Flood did deserve to be fired but it should have been done and done quietly, paid him to go away and not report a damn thing to the NCAA in an attempt to get him fired for cause and not have to pay him out.
And no matter how bad it may have been. even a mediocre HC should have been able to have things moving the right direction by now- not make it 10 times worse. Flood should have been a 4 year blimp on a long history. His last 2 years and two years to fix.
 
I don't think Flood is completely off the hook (since he set things in motion) but yes, any reasonably capable coach would be showing significant progress by now. Obviously Ash wasn't a reasonably capable coach...
 
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yesrutgers01 said:
I'm not sure...maybe it is my memory going...could be but werent all of Flood's problems either School rules or self reported to the NCAA?
I don't think we were even on the radar. And again, Flood did deserve to be fired but it should have been done and done quietly, paid him to go away and not report a damn thing to the NCAA in an attempt to get him fired for cause and not have to pay him out.
And no matter how bad it may have been. even a mediocre HC should have been able to have things moving the right direction by now- not make it 10 times worse. Flood should have been a 4 year blimp on a long history. His last 2 years and two years to fix.
Click to expand...

YR- it was the grade issue along with the (minor) recruiting violations/ impermissible contacts and the drug test issues. There's also the variable(s) of what would have continued to happen/ not happen had Flood stayed (it was a very laissez faire). Add it all up and IMO if the NCAA saw the chance, they would have teed off on us.


Joe P.
 
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First blame goes to the administration that decided to not find a real HC to continue what GS had built. Unlike today, this job was a great one with nothing but upside.
Flood inherited a very solid team that made his job easier than one coming into a shit show. His screw ups are well known so he did himself in. He left this program in much worse shape than he started with so he gets second blame.
Ash came out of an iconic winning program but had zero experience as a HC.
Hell of a lot easier to win games when you have some of the best players in the country. His choices of assistants didn't help and his recruiting prowess speaks for itself. Somehow convinced Hobbs that he was on the right path (never mind the losses by massive margins) and got an exten$ion.
Thus, both Ash and Hobbs get third blame.
 
We were never built strong enough to survive 2 terrible hires... you guys are all more concerned about throwing tantrums and pinning blame than fixing. Out problem is and always will be money.

We're too cheap to do anything right. And you grown men are too spoiled by pro sports and think that you can fire your way out of anything. We cant afford it.

You want to fix this? Open up the wallets and hire a real staff... nobody has the 15mm it will take.
 
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Barchi is most to blame in my mind for not giving a f*ck about football and feeling that the team could at least be mediocre on a shoe string budget, and that would be OK. When you only aim for mediocracy when everyone else is aiming for the top, you get the outcome we are now living with.

Flood vs. Ash continues to be a Ray Handley vs. Rich Kotite argument to me, they were both god-awful. The big difference is that Flood inherited Schiano's talent and couldn't perpetuate it while Ash inherited Flood's empty cupboard and had the incredible "accomplishment" of lowering the bar even further.
 
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yesrutgers01 said:
Yes, he failed. Yes, he did some stupid things and yes, he broke that foundation Greg built.

It is 4 years later and all of that should have been a distant memory. Any coach or leader worth even have a lick would have at least made things better. All of his blights some already be fading away.

Everyone is right to be mad/upset/pissed off at him. But the man following him is 10 times worse. And while I like Hobbs- in my book, he has to have hit a HR and figure a way to a bowl in 3 years. We ARE the worst team in any sport I have aver seen. And it is not on the kids. I don't even blame them for leaving. If it were my son, his NFL bound ass would have been in the portal and sitting in game 5 too.

That is all...my rant for the day.

Ash burned it all down. Hobbs either makes a quick fix or he jioins him in the same breath.
Click to expand...
I agree. Neither is Julie Hermann
 
Flood still has home invading players in jail. Ash couldn't turn a losing team into winners. Flood created a loser and turned it into a mafia to boot. RU admins are at the root of both eras
 
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koleszar said:
Does that include going to a Counting Crows concert during game planning? I loved how one of our former mods put it, "Flood liked the idea of being a head coach, but not the work required to be one"
Click to expand...
Don’t disagree at all. Again, OP was not to exonerate Flood, it is just to say that Flood problems should already be a non issue. It doesn’t help or fix anything to ever bring it up again. 100% of anything that needs to be fixed is 109% on Ash. Both his problems an the Flood problems he inherited
 
It was a collaborative effort with snowball going downhill....it little of Shea...I DASH of Schiano...a little Flood...a little sprinkle of Ash...and dump in the rest...Grunniger, Herman, Pernitti....and voila here we are:


D0jh.gif
 
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yesrutgers01 said:
Don’t disagree at all. Again, OP was not to exonerate Flood, it is just to say that Flood problems should already be a non issue. It doesn’t help or fix anything to ever bring it up again. 100% of anything that needs to be fixed is 109% on Ash. Both his problems an the Flood problems he inherited
Click to expand...

If 'head coaching malpractice' was a real thing we'd probably have a case against Ash.


Joe P.
 
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If Flood was as good as a coach as some of these posts have mentioned you would think he’d be able to get an interview for another head coaching job. Odds are pretty good he will never sniff one. Not sure what you guys were watching.

Flood imploded what was already here. Ash burned down what was not already destroyed.
 
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yesrutgers01 said:
Don’t disagree at all. Again, OP was not to exonerate Flood, it is just to say that Flood problems should already be a non issue. It doesn’t help or fix anything to ever bring it up again. 100% of anything that needs to be fixed is 109% on Ash. Both his problems an the Flood problems he inherited
Click to expand...
Yes I agree, todays Rutgers Football team is the sole responsibility of the dynamic duo of HOBBS and ASH. Hobbs deserves equal blame for his blind loyalty to Ash, it's all right their in that letter he sent all of us. I even said at the time of it's release, it's offensive to anybody who understands the game of football.

I have no faith in the man to get this correct. A man who has less than 4 yrs. of life experience in the game of football. Doesn't make him a bad man or not good in other areas, this is just his area of expertise. IMO he thinks he knows better than anybody else and gives just lip service to other opinions. Thus the 6 day coaching search the 1st go around. That makes me wary of him handling this next go around.
 
Flood left a nice dump in the toilet from the 2 Michelin star meal (turning Rutgers into a perennial conference contender and bowl game regular producing a multitude of NFL prospects) that Schiano left at Rutgers, but Ash took what should have been a relatively easy sell to post-Schiano recruits (convincing NJ recruits that his Ohio State championship background will be a winner) and flushed it down the drain.
 
TM514 said:
Flood had a team on 2015 that should've bowl. 2 close loses to Wash St a d Matyland. He had a nice eye for O-Line talent. Had he stayed we bowl in 2016 and in MUCH better shape today.
Click to expand...

A “nice eye for O-Line talent.” I completely disagree. The fourth and fifth year guys on the roster are his. Pretty sure we have the worst o-line in the entire nation.

Disagree with the OP. While Ash has left it in shambles it was Flood who started this disaster. Nothing will change that.
 
AntiG said:
Flood left a nice dump in the toilet from the 2 Michelin star meal (turning Rutgers into a perennial conference contender and bowl game regular producing a multitude of NFL prospects) that Schiano left at Rutgers, but Ash took what should have been a relatively easy sell to post-Schiano recruits (convincing NJ recruits that his Ohio State championship background will be a winner) and flushed it down the drain.
Click to expand...

I would tend to agree with this if Ashe didn't pooch the bed on his supporting cast...of course, not knowing if it was related to budget constraints or his infectious charisma
 
yesrutgers01 said:
Yes, he failed. Yes, he did some stupid things and yes, he broke that foundation Greg built.

It is 4 years later and all of that should have been a distant memory. Any coach or leader worth even have a lick would have at least made things better. All of his blights some already be fading away.

Everyone is right to be mad/upset/pissed off at him. But the man following him is 10 times worse. And while I like Hobbs- in my book, he has to have hit a HR and figure a way to a bowl in 3 years. We ARE the worst team in any sport I have aver seen. And it is not on the kids. I don't even blame them for leaving. If it were my son, his NFL bound ass would have been in the portal and sitting in game 5 too.

That is all...my rant for the day.

Ash burned it all down. Hobbs either makes a quick fix or he jioins him in the same breath.
Click to expand...
Yep. Nailed it.
 
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