Bac just wrote a small book on a game he did not attend yet the other book writer has an opinion and you jump all over him lol relax dude. Gardner sports writer weather forecaster and a hate speech writer on the CE board. What a life you live lol.
GAME 15 INDIANA: Hoosier Soup for the Soul
- Thread starter bac2therac
- Start date
When Derek is on I fully agree. Last night he wasn’t good. He wasn’t nearly the reason we won.
I admit to not believing that the magic against Indiana would continue since most of our team has turned over in the last two years, and I thought their size would give them the advantage.
But it really looks like the Hoosiers are psyched out playing in the RAC — even a two-thirds filled RAC.
So the magic continues, and yes I’ll take this sloppy chicken soup for our first conference win.
But it really looks like the Hoosiers are psyched out playing in the RAC — even a two-thirds filled RAC.
So the magic continues, and yes I’ll take this sloppy chicken soup for our first conference win.
The John Wooden UCLA dynasty had multiple players who embraced that shot.
I hear you. Gavin is a mess right now. I just don’t think he can get it figured out if he’s not playing.
Leave your grievances over there.
Sorry but this is a terrible take. Derek does other things that helped us win the game yesterday - full stop. As bad as he played we don’t win without him. Gavin didn’t deserve a single second of Derek’s PT (or anyone else’s for that matter). We needed Derek for many stretches as a primary ball handler, as a FT shooter (end of game) and as a servicable defender. Gavin provides none of these things.
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I feel great for the team that they got a much-needed win. There were some positives - especially the play of Mawot and Austin and overall toughness of the team. However, the way I look at this game is Indiana lost it more than we won - they were horrible. We can't count on too many future opponents playing at that level.
Also, as some have said, Pike has to cut down on his rotation: with about 10 minutes to go, he has Derek, Mag, Cliff, and Austin for extended minutes - I thought he was trying to give the game to IU.
Also, as some have said, Pike has to cut down on his rotation: with about 10 minutes to go, he has Derek, Mag, Cliff, and Austin for extended minutes - I thought he was trying to give the game to IU.
Exactly. My head is spinning. Derek is just as responsible for the win as anybody. And maybe the primary reason we won.
Exactly this. Did anyone else watch Derek work very hard to try to get rebounds?
I know he is a streaky shooter, but the last couple games I have felt like he is working harder to get to the boards, even if he doesn't actually get that many.
Neither Derek or Gavin are playing well. But Derek's 2-10 with reasonable defense is better than Gavin's 0-5 with bad defense.
Going glass gives you a bigger margin for error on those shots. Going rim only you need to be virtually perfect to avoid being long or short. How many rim-outs have we seen?
I get it, kids don’t want to look like Larry Bird or Kevin McHale, but style points don’t count. The goal is to get the ball in the hole by any means necessary.
and it gets me so fvcking annoyed.
Our guards are bringing it defensively. They are helping out on the glass. I love them on one half of the court.
I HATE them on the other side. We have the queen, but we are choosing to not use her diagonally.
What's become clear to me is that we can have one of Simpson or Davis next year but not both. Really hard to make things work with two guards this inefficient (actually, we have three right now with Noah but I am assuming Dylan Harper will be good). Jeremiah Williams brings size and (we think) better passing but he's not been a huge plus on offense in his career and by the time November rolls around it'll have been 30 months since he last played in a real game.
Absolutely imperative to bring in a transfer at the guard spot next year. Even if it ends up being a guy with Fernandes' pre-Rutgers profile. We're probably getting the 15th-percentile outcome from a decent A-10 guard moving to the Big Ten. Maybe next year we get the 70th-percentile outcome from Player X.
Absolutely imperative to bring in a transfer at the guard spot next year. Even if it ends up being a guy with Fernandes' pre-Rutgers profile. We're probably getting the 15th-percentile outcome from a decent A-10 guard moving to the Big Ten. Maybe next year we get the 70th-percentile outcome from Player X.
You are acting as if there are tons of options to go to on the floor....what wing is able to fly around and create space for these plays.....what do you with Cliff to open up the floor, let him stand outside the lane, with a 7 footer and 6'10 forward from Indiana, waiting there, because there's no off the dribble threat??
I'm not sure we are watching the same game, there's literally no footspeed up front to compliment Simpson or Davis. I give Pike and the staff credit. They are actually force feeding Mag and letting him freelance and he's embracing the role by playing faster.....he's taking shots in rhythm of the ball moving.
Mag at least has the decent enough footwork to maneuver, he pump faked, the Indiana defender out of the gym and had a pretty turn around bank shot. He is literally being developed right in front of our eyes, because the roster doesn't have any long list of alternatives. Why are fans so against player development???
What you are seeing now is Simpson kinda towards the end of his freshman year, because he didn't get enough minutes last year, so he would be more advanced and experienced right now. It's no one's fault, but the roster doesn't offer 3 others able to create off the dribble. Mag is learning on the fly and Mag is moving better. I am not sure Hyatt has the spring in his legs that Mag is showing but Hyatt is not a quickness and slashing forward.
I'm just not sure what fans are watching or want Simpson and Davis to do, if they don't attack downhill to try and score hopefully get fouled, other than a pull up......do you want them standing around and chucking up a 3????......Do we want him pounding a dribble, feeding Cliff and then cutting to the basket.....?? Is Cliff a good enough passer to execute that type of play and pass him the ball.......?? Lathan Sommerville is,, Cliff is not that type of big man....Myles Johnson could make passes at times from the post.
If Mag is getting better with more responsibility and more shot attempts, some of them are going to look hideous at times....same thing with Simpson, Davis and yes Griffiths too....eventually the game slows down for them as frosh or underclassmen.
All good. If we all agreed we’d have nothing to talk about. I said Derek should play late for FT purposes. And when he’s on, he can really score. I didn’t see the winning floor game from Derek last night outside of late game FTs. He’s not a great defender and he had 10/3/3 in 25 minutes. If Indiana was on Derek would’ve shot us out of the game in the first half. But, to be clear, I’m not saying Derek shouldn’t play 20 minutes on this team. But there’s only so many minutes to go around so if my take is that Gavin needs to play more than 5 minutes it has to come from someone.
One last thing - I am conceding that Gavin’s play hasn’t warranted more minutes. I just think it’s a confidence issue that can’t be solved being buried on the bench.
Mags offense was improving game by game until the injury. Good to see him continue it.
I don’t like takes like this giving Rutgers little credit. The gnat like pain in the ass defense, hustle, effort and junkyard dog mentality had a lot to do with IU playing crappy.
Simpson just isn't going to finish at the rim against B1G teams with a shot blocker.....only chance if he shows the league he is a threat to pass.
We are not dreadful offensively because we don't have pieces surrounding our guards. We are dreadful because of our guards.
We are not dreadful offensively because we don't have pieces surrounding our guards. We are dreadful because of our guards.
It is possible the substitution comes from data coming from what the players are wearing....I don't know for sure. We are definitely very cognicent of players fatigue levels.
Most substitutions are not even ordered by Pike. Knight and others are often telling players to go in the game.
BAC wrote a narrative of the game. It’s supposed to be long and it’s in its own dedicated thread.
This game should put to bed the merits of Simpson trying to use his speed to have success with rim penetration. He shouldn’t drive much unless he has a wide open uncontested lane. This doesn’t fit the narrative Hawk painted (and continues to hang onto) about how much more effective our offensive would be with faster guards than Paul and Caleb but it’s reality.
I'm all for the speed. But speed alone doesn't help if the speedy bodies can't make the ball go in the little hole or kick out to other players that can make the ball go in the hole.
There is a ton of value getting in to the paint...even for a small guard like Simpson. There is no better place on the floor to pass from.
A stretch, but maybe Gavin wouldn't be such a wreck if we had guards that made the extra pass. We have guys hunting shots because they go possessions without seeing the ball and when they finally do they feel the need to shoot.
My wife actually asked me if the players don't like Hyatt. She said she was watching and 5 straight times he was open and no one passed to him. The very next possession he finally touches the ball and takes a somewhat bad shot.
A stretch, but maybe Gavin wouldn't be such a wreck if we had guards that made the extra pass. We have guys hunting shots because they go possessions without seeing the ball and when they finally do they feel the need to shoot.
My wife actually asked me if the players don't like Hyatt. She said she was watching and 5 straight times he was open and no one passed to him. The very next possession he finally touches the ball and takes a somewhat bad shot.
Love it or hate it though - reality is that he shoots the mid range at a higher percentage than he does lay ups. Occasionally a whistle bails him out on a lay up but usually that’s in transition.
I thoroughly enjoy reading your recaps and rarely disagree with your observations but this is one of those times. I thought Indiana was awful and their guard play may have been worse than Rutgers , especially after Johnson was ejected. At times I thought Stonehill looked better than Indiana. There just is no offensive flow with this Rutgers team and the outside shooting is inconsistent at best and frustratingly horrible at worst. What probably bothers me most is that we're now at Game #15 and with the exception of Mag I just don't see much marked improvement in the players. Indeed some players appear to regress as the season has gone on--Noah, Cliff , Wolf and notably Gavin. --Others are just inconsistent --especially Derek and JMike. Yes the defense has improved and rebounding is better but this is a very limited team...Most disappointing is the play of Gavin. We all had high expectations but the game appears to be too fast for him as he forces shots and struggles with bigger and more physical players. I don't like how Pike has handled Gavin --playing Palmquist ahead of Gavin is not the answer......
BAC--what would you do to get Gavin over the hump?
Here’s another spin. Geo Baker shot maker has been replaced by Derick Simpson shot maker.
Last year in a comeback win against Indiana it was Derick Simpson who took over the game and won it.
This year when we faced an upset loss for the ages it was a Derick Simpson three point shot that saved us.
Against OSU it was Derick Simpson who almost willed us to victory.
Yesterday it was the Derick Simpson shot that saved the game/season again. Don’t know if we have any hope if we lose to Indiana. Now there’s some.
Now I know he shot a horrific 2-13 but to be fair many of you are saying Mag played so well, he shot just as horrific too, 4-12. Hyatt wasn’t all that much better at 3-8 as was Cliff at 2-7. We are just a bad shooting team period. So firmly believe have to look beyond shooting stats.
Derick is clutch. With apologies to BAC the shot of the game was not a three point jumper by Davis but the almost half court three point shot by Derick.
Indiana has the ball and a chance to run the clock and get the last shot and the lead going into the half. Inexplicably they don’t get a shot off and throw the ball out of bounds. They then wisely use a foul to burn the clock and make sure RU can’t a good shot off with any time left. Derick Simpson the only RU player with the quickness to get up the court, does just that. In three seconds or so he is able to shake a defender, get past half court and heave a three that banks in.
That shot was an absolute dagger. Indiana is thoroughly deflated and demoralized. They know once again that since 2018, they are going to lose again at the RAC. Likewise that same shot goes in, gives RU all the confidence in the world. There’s no way we are losing the game. That was the shot of the game.
The second shot of the game was the shot to the groin. What the heck is Johnson thinking? Dirty player. Herb Pope like. Makes me wonder about Woodson too. All that talent and always falling short.
When Indiana tries to make a comeback in the 2nd it is Derick Simpson who shoots 5-7 from the line that ices the game. Despite a poor shooting game, ends up with a respectable 10 points, three assists and a steal. Moreover as coach inserts Austin Smith in a brilliant move let’s not forget it’s basically Simpson who has to be the point guard and scoring guard. So he still had a helluva game. Critics be damned.
We basically won the game at the line. Indiana was 4-15. We were 19-28. Still under 70% but the big three, Hyatt 4-5, Mag 4-6 and Simpson 5-7, good enough to prevent any comeback. How does Galloway of Indy have such poor foul shooting form? I’d foul him every time.
Austin Williams was mvp. For Spirit alone he was invaluable.
Mag had a very good all around game with four assists and 8 rebounds.
Hyatt was quietly effective.
Oscar had some effective few minutes with two points, an assist and three rebounds.
I thought Fernandes wasn’t too bad yesterday. Had one of the nicest passes of the year to Cliff and nailed two free throws.
Gavin needs to take a deep breath and slow down. I love that he is confident and he must be money in practice. But one of his shots was from Seth Curry range and a second shot was an air ball. I think he has to slow down. Almost wish we could have redshirted him. I think with some muscle he’ll be fine but didn’t think the growing pains would be this hard.
JMichael is still the hardest player for me to get a handle on. BAC seems to love him and sees considerable progress. Flux loves to stalk me over him. He plays great D and rebounds well. The best of times! But the worst of times is bad. Misses more layups of anybody on the team. Demoralizing. He finally hit some outside shots but still only shot 4-9. A far bigger problem is how does a guard play 21 minutes have no assists and four turnovers? That’s dangerous. Hopefully he improves but some fans would crucify Simpson with the same numbers.
It was a nice gritty win. Hope with new teams in league next we still get to play Indiana fairly often. Have developed a nice rivalry with them. They hate us as we own them.
Interesting preview three of our next four games are on Sunday. Seven of our last seventeen are on Sunday. I like it. Interesting too.
Last year in a comeback win against Indiana it was Derick Simpson who took over the game and won it.
This year when we faced an upset loss for the ages it was a Derick Simpson three point shot that saved us.
Against OSU it was Derick Simpson who almost willed us to victory.
Yesterday it was the Derick Simpson shot that saved the game/season again. Don’t know if we have any hope if we lose to Indiana. Now there’s some.
Now I know he shot a horrific 2-13 but to be fair many of you are saying Mag played so well, he shot just as horrific too, 4-12. Hyatt wasn’t all that much better at 3-8 as was Cliff at 2-7. We are just a bad shooting team period. So firmly believe have to look beyond shooting stats.
Derick is clutch. With apologies to BAC the shot of the game was not a three point jumper by Davis but the almost half court three point shot by Derick.
Indiana has the ball and a chance to run the clock and get the last shot and the lead going into the half. Inexplicably they don’t get a shot off and throw the ball out of bounds. They then wisely use a foul to burn the clock and make sure RU can’t a good shot off with any time left. Derick Simpson the only RU player with the quickness to get up the court, does just that. In three seconds or so he is able to shake a defender, get past half court and heave a three that banks in.
That shot was an absolute dagger. Indiana is thoroughly deflated and demoralized. They know once again that since 2018, they are going to lose again at the RAC. Likewise that same shot goes in, gives RU all the confidence in the world. There’s no way we are losing the game. That was the shot of the game.
The second shot of the game was the shot to the groin. What the heck is Johnson thinking? Dirty player. Herb Pope like. Makes me wonder about Woodson too. All that talent and always falling short.
When Indiana tries to make a comeback in the 2nd it is Derick Simpson who shoots 5-7 from the line that ices the game. Despite a poor shooting game, ends up with a respectable 10 points, three assists and a steal. Moreover as coach inserts Austin Smith in a brilliant move let’s not forget it’s basically Simpson who has to be the point guard and scoring guard. So he still had a helluva game. Critics be damned.
We basically won the game at the line. Indiana was 4-15. We were 19-28. Still under 70% but the big three, Hyatt 4-5, Mag 4-6 and Simpson 5-7, good enough to prevent any comeback. How does Galloway of Indy have such poor foul shooting form? I’d foul him every time.
Austin Williams was mvp. For Spirit alone he was invaluable.
Mag had a very good all around game with four assists and 8 rebounds.
Hyatt was quietly effective.
Oscar had some effective few minutes with two points, an assist and three rebounds.
I thought Fernandes wasn’t too bad yesterday. Had one of the nicest passes of the year to Cliff and nailed two free throws.
Gavin needs to take a deep breath and slow down. I love that he is confident and he must be money in practice. But one of his shots was from Seth Curry range and a second shot was an air ball. I think he has to slow down. Almost wish we could have redshirted him. I think with some muscle he’ll be fine but didn’t think the growing pains would be this hard.
JMichael is still the hardest player for me to get a handle on. BAC seems to love him and sees considerable progress. Flux loves to stalk me over him. He plays great D and rebounds well. The best of times! But the worst of times is bad. Misses more layups of anybody on the team. Demoralizing. He finally hit some outside shots but still only shot 4-9. A far bigger problem is how does a guard play 21 minutes have no assists and four turnovers? That’s dangerous. Hopefully he improves but some fans would crucify Simpson with the same numbers.
It was a nice gritty win. Hope with new teams in league next we still get to play Indiana fairly often. Have developed a nice rivalry with them. They hate us as we own them.
Interesting preview three of our next four games are on Sunday. Seven of our last seventeen are on Sunday. I like it. Interesting too.
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I will ask the same question I asked last year and now again this year......the pieces are essentially the same from last year to this year.
What specifically did we do so well last year on offense, that resulted in more PPG, vs what we are doing this year??
Are we scoring less PPG from last year to this year against Power 5 competition??
Isn't there something that should stand out in games vs Illinois, Ohio State, Iowa and Indiana (and essentially Georgetown, Wake Forest, Seton Hall and Mississippi State)??
I can easily acknowledge that RU in the last 3 games, doesn't look anything like RU did in late November or early to Mid December?? If it is as simple as playing less Noah and more Austin Williams, that's not Simpson or Davis....
What specifically impacts the PPG on offense more or less now vs before??
After the OSU game, I mentioned that I wasn’t that upset about the loss because I thought both teams played well. This is the opposite. I’m not that happy with the win because both teams played like crap. Indiana played one of the worst games I’ve ever seen from a Big 10 opponent. But the game was relatively close because we also stunk.
Random thoughts:
I didn’t know who Austin Williams was before the season started and while he continued to play pretty well, I didn’t see the point of giving tons of minutes to a once and done player. But he has won me over and it’s clear that if we want to go .500 this year, he’s going to have to play. Last night he started over Fernandes and it was a noticeable improvement. Excellent energy and true joy playing the game. Fernandes is a good free throw shooter so he will be inserted into games to help protect a lead, but I think Williams is going to get a lot of his minutes going forward.
Cliff doesn’t like being a leader. He wants a guy like Geo or Paul to run the team. Now that it’s his turn, he’s not doing a good job. I think he realizes he doesn’t have the complimentary players for him to be at his best and it’s weighing on his attitude.
Simpson continues to be hot and cold. He really needs to stop driving to the basket because he never makes the layup and he never draws the foul. The pullup midrange is his shot. He has to keep doing that.
JMike continues to show signs that he can be a key player next season. His role last night was good and Pike needs to keep using him the same way.
Griffiths is a disaster. Maybe, like Cliff, he needs better guards to bring out his game. But whatever is wrong with him has to be correctable.
Mag is a stud. Love him.
Hyatt doesn't play great every game, but he has been more consistent this year.
Random thoughts:
I didn’t know who Austin Williams was before the season started and while he continued to play pretty well, I didn’t see the point of giving tons of minutes to a once and done player. But he has won me over and it’s clear that if we want to go .500 this year, he’s going to have to play. Last night he started over Fernandes and it was a noticeable improvement. Excellent energy and true joy playing the game. Fernandes is a good free throw shooter so he will be inserted into games to help protect a lead, but I think Williams is going to get a lot of his minutes going forward.
Cliff doesn’t like being a leader. He wants a guy like Geo or Paul to run the team. Now that it’s his turn, he’s not doing a good job. I think he realizes he doesn’t have the complimentary players for him to be at his best and it’s weighing on his attitude.
Simpson continues to be hot and cold. He really needs to stop driving to the basket because he never makes the layup and he never draws the foul. The pullup midrange is his shot. He has to keep doing that.
JMike continues to show signs that he can be a key player next season. His role last night was good and Pike needs to keep using him the same way.
Griffiths is a disaster. Maybe, like Cliff, he needs better guards to bring out his game. But whatever is wrong with him has to be correctable.
Mag is a stud. Love him.
Hyatt doesn't play great every game, but he has been more consistent this year.
Gavin only played 5 minutes because of the way he played. Not because the minutes went to Derek or someone else.
The problem with letting him “play through” his shooting issues is that he’s also a relative liability on defense, and the weakest ball handler among our guards. His FT shooting percentage is in the 50s so he’s not helping us there either. And he’s not physically strong enough to slide over to 3-4 to compete for PT there.
I hesitate to call a bank shot "clutch" by any standards.
Simpson had a poor game last night, but honestly it's well within expectation for him. He takes low percentage shots, so he will average out to a low percentage.
Looking at our guards shooting
DS: 34.9% at the rim, 33.3% other twos, 30.3% threes
JD: 35.7% at the rim, 36.0% other twos, 27.8% threes
NF: 44.1% at the rim, 33.3% other twos, 27.3% threes
AW: 65.5% at the rim, 33.3% other twos, 36.4% threes
GG: 57.7% at the rim, 34.6% other twos, 24.6% threes
DS has taken 60/136 shots (44%!) in the "other two" range... the next closest guy on the floor is Mag at 36% (and he hits them at 48%). The only other guy above 30% is Omoruyi.
Compare to last year:
DS: 51.0% at the rim, 31.7% other twos, 21.7% threes
PM: 50.0% at the rim, 33.3% other twos, 37.0% threes
CS: 71.4% at the rim, 32.8% other twos, 43.4% threes
CM: 65.3% at the rim, 33.3% other twos, 20.3% threes
Last year, DS took just 33% of his shots from the "other two" range.
Looking at our guards shooting
DS: 34.9% at the rim, 33.3% other twos, 30.3% threes
JD: 35.7% at the rim, 36.0% other twos, 27.8% threes
NF: 44.1% at the rim, 33.3% other twos, 27.3% threes
AW: 65.5% at the rim, 33.3% other twos, 36.4% threes
GG: 57.7% at the rim, 34.6% other twos, 24.6% threes
DS has taken 60/136 shots (44%!) in the "other two" range... the next closest guy on the floor is Mag at 36% (and he hits them at 48%). The only other guy above 30% is Omoruyi.
Compare to last year:
DS: 51.0% at the rim, 31.7% other twos, 21.7% threes
PM: 50.0% at the rim, 33.3% other twos, 37.0% threes
CS: 71.4% at the rim, 32.8% other twos, 43.4% threes
CM: 65.3% at the rim, 33.3% other twos, 20.3% threes
Last year, DS took just 33% of his shots from the "other two" range.
I think it’s the fact that we are #331 in 3P%, #330 in 2P%, and #307 in FT%.
Top four assist leaders last year:
Mulcahy 4.9 assists/game
Spencer 3.1 assists/game
McConnell 3.1 assists/game
Simpson 1.5 assists/game
Total = 12.6 assists/game
This year:
Simpson 2.9 assist/game
Davis 2.5 assists/game
Fernandes 2.1 assists/game
Mag 1.9 assists/game
Total = 9.4 assists/game
Last year's team did not have a good offense but there was much better passing happening.
Mulcahy 4.9 assists/game
Spencer 3.1 assists/game
McConnell 3.1 assists/game
Simpson 1.5 assists/game
Total = 12.6 assists/game
This year:
Simpson 2.9 assist/game
Davis 2.5 assists/game
Fernandes 2.1 assists/game
Mag 1.9 assists/game
Total = 9.4 assists/game
Last year's team did not have a good offense but there was much better passing happening.
As far as Griffiths goes, he needs a lot more time (not necessarily live game reps, but time). He has not acclimated to what is being asked of him, and it's readily apparent. On defense, he seems to be overthinking every single thing - where his feet are, where his man is, where he should be looking, etc... nothing looks natural yet. It's like it's a big math problem he's trying to solve, rather than feeling the flow of the game - and that time spent "calculating...calculating..." is hurting him. He's drinking from the fire hose right now, and is struggling to internalize it all.
On offense, it's like he feels he has to shoot immediately, no matter where on the court he is. Immediate hucks 6-8 feet behind the line are not shots he should be taking, but I think he's not comfortable yet on the offensive concepts either.
So he gets the quick hook.
IMO, he just needs more time to really "get" all the things he's been told about our system. Hopefully the light bulb goes on and the game starts to slow down for him before the end of this season.
On offense, it's like he feels he has to shoot immediately, no matter where on the court he is. Immediate hucks 6-8 feet behind the line are not shots he should be taking, but I think he's not comfortable yet on the offensive concepts either.
So he gets the quick hook.
IMO, he just needs more time to really "get" all the things he's been told about our system. Hopefully the light bulb goes on and the game starts to slow down for him before the end of this season.
Or a shot that happens with over 20 minutes left in the game.
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