Game 16 Purdue: Recruiting needs to pick up

[bac2therac]

There is nothing to talk about the game. RU was completely overmatched without Eugene. Going forward not having Eugene basically kills any chance to win any game against decent competition. Purdue is down from last year but looked like last year's Purdue team and RU played right into their hands. Disappointed with the effort and the leadership. Mathis was another bright spot with 19 points but its hard to cling to that when you are staring down a 35 beatdown and were simply embarrassed and bitchslapped throughout. To me and now after watching 3 of the last 4 games basically be blowouts its evident that recruiting is sticking out as an issue.

Eugene injury aside. Pike has to answer to some misses on the recruiting trail. Yes all schools have them unfortunately those schools do not have the small window or margin of error that exists at RU. Souf was a big one as was Bullock. Okay fine...but now it looks like Kiss who was touted as something else took up a spot last year and now is very ineffective this year. Doucoure is sitting on the bench after starting last year....on a team that isnt very good. I dont get it. He is either transferrring or its just a stupid move to redshirt. We need talent here pronto, no time for projects. We have Issa Thiam who was originally a Jordan recruit providing very little as a junior. Cannot afford to have any more substantial misses going forward

So put that together with a bunch of green freshmen who have flashes of talent and a struggling point guard out of position going through a rough patch and you have a team that does not look very good and is likely not going to be able to win very many games. A small margin of error to win games even with Eugene. I was pretty positive after the OSU win because it highlights the freshmen and their potential. However stepping back, RU has been blown out 3 of the last 4 and those final margins were not indictive of how much RU was out of the game. The Big 10 is a tough unforgiving league. There are 10 schools in the top 40. RU beat one of them but we are far from the level of player to be able to do the things it takes to win consistently..meaning 10 or 11 out of 20 home games. True, the freshmen are freshmen and will get better BUT IMO this program needs an infusion of talent. Pike is going to have to land very strong...I mean STRONG 2020 class. Eugene has next year and then he is gone, who is replacing him. Mulcahy and Young will help but careful with Young, I see the same type of stuff being said when Nigel Johnson was sitting out. He is a nice player but is he a difference maker. I have no doubt this team will be better next season and can be 500. However we have to continue to measure the progress not against Rutgers standards but versus the rest of the league. Until Pikiell lands some studs in 2020 and 2021 I see the program once again being stuck on a certain ceiling level and some of the same cycle of excuses I saw with previous coaches

I cannot repeat enough....2020 is an enormous and pivotal year for this program and the rebuild. Until we match the rest of the league in talent we will continue to languish at the bottom of the standings. I do not want to hear spin. Recruiting needs to pick up. I have been more than fair with Pikiell and will not judge wins and losses until year 4 but I think what we are seeing is not soley just because we are young, its because we do not have enough talent.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Couldnt agree more. Recruiting needs to step it up another level. We need to start landing multiple top 100 kids per class. And he need ATHLETIC kids. This team has an extreme lack of explosiveness and athleticism

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Bac

You points are valid

The way I see it right now...we have two classes in a row that give us a nucleus

Class one-Mathis/Harper/macconnell/Johnson

Class two-Mulchay/young

Add those seniors Eugene and carter and junior baker and I think we have enough pieces for a nucleus

However, history has taught us that back to back classes aren’t enough. Ask kevin, Fred, and mike

It’s critical that we had the third and fourth classes behind it ...otherwise it’s stagnation

Young and Mulchay does upgrade kiss and thiam

We need to continue that ...period

 

[sct1111]

Definitely agree. We also need another high quality recruit for 2019.

 

[gmay8]

Mac Maclung with 20 points with 15 mins left in the game for Georgetown against #15 team in the country. Could have used him

 

[bac2therac]

it makes sense...we can talk about Mathis but yet every school in the top half of the league has 5 Mathises and one or two studs......

the other path to the top is to follow what happened at Northwestern...hard working under recruited kids getting it done..but then again they had the Turtle who was a great shooter...we dont have that. And they only did it one year...they struggled mightily last year and underperformed and now going backward again. Its tough to do it that way..its literally thread the needle.

Look at Penn State...Chambers best team with some solid talent won the NIT but that was their window for the NCAA, they moved up incremently but didnt get over the hump to win enough games, now they are back down and likely he will never get them to the NCAA

Pitino whose teams had issue the past couple of years now has his team ready to take that leap...why? because they have talent...ditto for Iowa...they have shooters. Iowa and Minny were in the same bottom 4 as RU last year and look at the leaps. Talent and shooting matters...ALOT

RU needs to get its current talent to juniors and seniors so they can reach their full potential while bringing in additional talent that is at least top 125 caliber.

 

[bac2therac]

Mac Maclung with 20 points with 15 mins left in the game for Georgetown against #15 team in the country. Could have used him

losing MacClung hurt...anyone saying otherwise is spinning. The kid is a player and doing a great job as freshmen

 

[bethlehemfan]

I don’t blame Pike for misses. He’s trying to dig out of an abortion that is 40 years in the making. “Misses” are the result of competition with a zillion programs with better history better facilities and better fan support. Gotta give it time but agree need to keep getting better at everything including recruiting.

 

[BigEastPhil]

Mcclung has 20 early in the second half vs Marquette. Would have been a heckuva get. Kid can play

losing MacClung hurt...anyone saying otherwise is spinning. The kid is a player and doing a great job as freshmen

Was just going to post about McClung. Huge loss . Kid is a player and a scorer. Something we lack.

 

[RW90]

We've seen this recap too many times to mention over the years with different coaches and players. I like Pike, and he truly had a monumental task after the prior regime, but we still have a long way to go.

 

[mikemarc1]

Not to bring football in here, but just curious.

Why does Pike have until 2020 before we judge wins and losses, but Ash is pretty much a dead man walking by our fan base after 3 seasons?

Why is Pike getting a longer leash? Is it because he actually has a few big wins? Basketball should be much easier to rebuild than a football program, and it seems both are stagnant right now.

Just curious the difference in perception between the 2 coaches. Both aren’t killing it right now.

 

[Mr Magoo]

We can’t wait until 2020 or we’ll be spinning our wheels at best for several more seasons. However, even if a player or two “souf” away this year, I don’t know where Pikiell is going to get another top recruit to join Mulcahy..let alone two.

It’s sobering to think that the expectations have dimmed to only .500 for next season but I tend to agree. Recruiting has picked up but not in comparison to the rest of the league.

 

[RUsojo]

Doesn’t take 16 games to figure that one out. Disappointing effort all the way around.

 

[BillyC80]

True we always need better recruits but isn’t Pike getting the best guys available under the circumstances? Gene, Thiam, Geo, Duke, Kiss, Myles, Carter, Mathis, Harper and Caleb were all decent to good recruits who showed some promise plus Young and Mulcahy coming in next season, while only Souf and Bullock were questionable from the start.

Duke was a 4-star and both Kiss and Thiam showed enough as freshmen to believe there was an upside to both that could be developed.

The last two blowouts were on the road against superior opponents and without our best player and another key guy playing hurt.

 

[BigEastPhil]

Not to bring football in here, but just curious.

Why does Pike have until 2020 before we judge wins and losses, but Ash is pretty much a dead man walking by our fan base after 3 seasons?

Why is Pike getting a longer leash? Is it because he actually has a few big wins? Basketball should be much easier to rebuild than a football program, and it seems both are stagnant right now.

Just curious the difference in perception between the 2 coaches. Both aren’t killing it right now.

Maybe because Every football game is like the Purdue defeat tonight and not every basketball game is a blowout

 

[bac2therac]

Not to bring football in here, but just curious.

Why does Pike have until 2020 before we judge wins and losses, but Ash is pretty much a dead man walking by our fan base after 3 seasons?

Why is Pike getting a longer leash? Is it because he actually has a few big wins? Basketball should be much easier to rebuild than a football program, and it seems both are stagnant right now.

Just curious the difference in perception between the 2 coaches. Both aren’t killing it right now.

because basketball was in worse shape, has always had lower expectations and has virtually no support from the school up until like three years ago.

because Ash has shown he is a terrible coach..a buffoon....Pike despite the loss tonight has shown he can beat decent teams at times


because Ash went 1-11, if Pikiell goes 3-28 there is your equivalent...did you see Art...did you see the empty stadium. Pikiell has the support of the fanbase. If Pike pulled the trainwreck of Ash then you would see the uprising..and simply..football has more money involved

 

[MadRU]

Been saying it for about 30 years, we need a true point guard. It all starts there. Hopefully Paul Mulcahy is that PG.

 

[RUsojo]

Been saying it for about 30 years, we need a true point guard. It all starts there. Hopefully Paul Mulcahy is that PG.

We’ve missed on every point guard Alvarado McClung etc we missed on everyone and if you can’t close with what I would say was self manufactured momentum from Cory which people in and out if the program bought into and with the facility than when will you ever be able to sell your vision successfully?

 

[bac2therac]

True we always need better recruits but isn’t Pike getting the best guys available under the circumstances? Gene, Thiam, Geo, Duke, Kiss, Myles, Carter, Mathis, Harper and Caleb were all decent to good recruits who showed some promise plus Young and Mulcahy coming in next season, while only Souf and Bullock were questionable from the start.

Duke was a 4-star and both Kiss and Thiam showed enough as freshmen to believe there was an upside to both that could be developed.

The last two blowouts were on the road against superior opponents and without our best player and another key guy playing hurt.

Kiss and Doucoure are misses...you cannot get around that. He didnt have to bring Kiss here and give up a seat last year to a freshmen guard who would be a soph this year. Add them to the other two misses and now its 4 and while it may not hurt other programs, it hurts ours

the Eugene injury hurts no question but that underscores the misses because there is simply not enough to pick up the slack. RU is relying on all frosh and Geo to win games. When they grow older..they may be good..or maybe not...we still need a higher level at this point

 

[mikemarc1]

Not to bring football in here, but just curious.

Why does Pike have until 2020 before we judge wins and losses, but Ash is pretty much a dead man walking by our fan base after 3 seasons?

Why is Pike getting a longer leash? Is it because he actually has a few big wins? Basketball should be much easier to rebuild than a football program, and it seems both are stagnant right now.

Just curious the difference in perception between the 2 coaches. Both aren’t killing it right now.

Maybe because Every football game is like the Purdue defeat tonight and not every basketball game is a blowout

I’m assuming you didn’t follow the football team this year. Big Ten defeats by 3, 7, 13, 14 and 14. Respectable. And not all blow outs. Football team actually showed improvement

This just proves my point Ash is viewed totally different than Pikiell. Just weird, is all

 

[bac2therac]

Not to bring football in here, but just curious.

Why does Pike have until 2020 before we judge wins and losses, but Ash is pretty much a dead man walking by our fan base after 3 seasons?

Why is Pike getting a longer leash? Is it because he actually has a few big wins? Basketball should be much easier to rebuild than a football program, and it seems both are stagnant right now.

Just curious the difference in perception between the 2 coaches. Both aren’t killing it right now.

also basketball is not an easier rebuild..have you seen this program the last 28 years.

 

[read option]

I called the Chris Ash show the night that Pike was on and asked him directly if he was aware of the recruiting theory that if RU could secure 2-3 of the top 25 players from NJ year in and year out that it is very possible RU b-ball would be a perennial Top 25 team. He reply was that he liked the guys RU is getting regardless of where they are from, and that he will continue to focus on recruiting talent without putting more emphasis on NJ over any other location for talent.

There’s your problem.

Until RU finds a HC that can make an impact in NJ, it is likely that we will never be better than one of the bottom 4 teams in the B1G.

I understand that Pike likes the guys he is getting, but to pretend putting an emphasis on NJ is not of importance is disappointing at best. Say you like who you are getting but doing better in NJ does matter and is always on the radar. Not, NJ is no more important in securing talent than Senegal, Canada or NH. I’ll take my chances that being good in NJ will always produce more for RU than anywhere else, so why run from that fact?

 

[RUsojo]

both rebuilds were tough and both coaches are pretty bad both coaches have similar results everyone needs to stop the charade, Stop drawing lines in the sand to defend your preferred sport or choice. It’ll be good for all of us if people just own up to it and move forward with positive vibes for both programs.

 

[bac2therac]

I’m assuming you didn’t follow the football team this year. Big Ten defeats by 3, 7, 13, 14 and 14. Respectable. And not all blow outs. Football team actually showed improvement

This just proves my point Ash is viewed totally different than Pikiell. Just weird, is all

really? this team was housed by Kansas and at home by Buffalo. It would be the equivalent of losing to Eastern Michigan by 30 at the RAC

also check your scores.....7, 3, 14, 13 not sure where your other 14 is coming from...of course the losses of 17, 49, 32, and 27 do not count...not to mention the offense didnt score more than 17 points in league and was universally considered the worst in the conference

last year the team was 4-8 with 3 league wins, this year they were 1-11 with zero league wins....get outta here with this crap

 

[mikemarc1]

Not to bring football in here, but just curious.

Why does Pike have until 2020 before we judge wins and losses, but Ash is pretty much a dead man walking by our fan base after 3 seasons?

Why is Pike getting a longer leash? Is it because he actually has a few big wins? Basketball should be much easier to rebuild than a football program, and it seems both are stagnant right now.

Just curious the difference in perception between the 2 coaches. Both aren’t killing it right now.

also basketball is not an easier rebuild..have you seen this program the last 28 years.

Should be a much easier rebuild. 2 big recruits are difference makers. That’s all it takes in hoops.

 

[RUsojo]

I called the Chris Ash show the night that Pike was on and asked him directly if he was aware of the recruiting theory that if RU could secure 2-3 of the top 25 players from NJ year in and year out that it is very possible RU b-ball would be a perennial Top 25 team. He reply was that he liked the guys RU is getting regardless of where they are from, and that he will continue to focus on recruiting talent without putting more emphasis on NJ over any other location for talent.

There’s your problem.

Until RU finds a HC that can make an impact in NJ, it is likely that we will never be better than one of the bottom 4 teams in the B1G.

I understand that Pike likes the guys he is getting, but to pretend putting an emphasis on NJ is not of importance is disappointing at best. Say you like who you are getting but doing better in NJ does matter and is always on the radar. Not, NJ is no more important in securing talent than Senegal, Canada or NH. I’ll take my chances that being good in NJ will always produce more for RU than anywhere else, so why run from that fact?

Coach speak for I don’t have a highly regarded recruiting class to tout

 

[read option]

I’m assuming you didn’t follow the football team this year. Big Ten defeats by 3, 7, 13, 14 and 14. Respectable. And not all blow outs. Football team actually showed improvement

This just proves my point Ash is viewed totally different than Pikiell. Just weird, is all

When you win 2 games, 4 games and then 1 game over 3 yrs for a total record of 7-29, losing by 3, 7, 13, 14, 14 doesn’t matter.

Btw, don’t forget the beatdowns to UB, Kansas, etc.

 

[bac2therac]

I called the Chris Ash show the night that Pike was on and asked him directly if he was aware of the recruiting theory that if RU could secure 2-3 of the top 25 players from NJ year in and year out that it is very possible RU b-ball would be a perennial Top 25 team. He reply was that he liked the guys RU is getting regardless of where they are from, and that he will continue to focus on recruiting talent without putting more emphasis on NJ over any other location for talent.

There’s your problem.

Until RU finds a HC that can make an impact in NJ, it is likely that we will never be better than one of the bottom 4 teams in the B1G.



I understand that Pike likes the guys he is getting, but to pretend putting an emphasis on NJ is not of importance is disappointing at best. Say you like who you are getting but doing better in NJ does matter and is always on the radar. Not, NJ is no more important in securing talent than Senegal, Canada or NH. I’ll take my chances that being good in NJ will always produce more for RU than anywhere else, so why run from that fact?

I dont think it makes any difference, we have NJ players in the past that made no difference for the program

 

[mikemarc1]

I’m assuming you didn’t follow the football team this year. Big Ten defeats by 3, 7, 13, 14 and 14. Respectable. And not all blow outs. Football team actually showed improvement

This just proves my point Ash is viewed totally different than Pikiell. Just weird, is all

really? this team was housed by Kansas and at home by Buffalo. It would be the equivalent of losing to Eastern Michigan by 30 at the RAC

also check your scores.....7, 3, 14, 13 not sure where your other 14 is coming from...of course the losses of 17, 49, 32, and 27 do not count...not to mention the offense didnt score more than 17 points in league and was universally considered the worst in the conference

last year the team was 4-8 with 3 league wins, this year they were 1-11 with zero league wins....get outta here with this crap

Other 14 should actually be 4. Ha.

That’s fine, but again, why aren’t I judging wins and losses by Pike til 2020? Hoops and football weren’t that far off as programs

 

[RUsojo]

When you win 2 games, 4 games and then 1 game over 3 yrs for a total record of 7-29, losing by 3, 7, 13, 14, 14 doesn’t matter.

Btw, don’t forget the beatdowns to UB, Kansas, etc.

Yet he didn’t finish last in conference each year. No need to put down Ash to defend Pike. They are both in tough spots and gettting bad results. Neither was going to succeed in three seasons. Only a coach who could come in to either position and immediately recruit classes in the top half of the conference or better would succeed that quickly.

 

[bac2therac]

football even with Flood disaster was still two years removed from 8-5...and a bowl win....RU hoops hasnt had a winning season since 2006 and was a laughing stock after Rice debacle and the Jordan disaster...much worse shape

plus year 3 I thought always a step back because of losing Corey and Freeman

what I was not anticipating was the whiff on Kiss, Thiam disappearance.....two key problems right now with program progression

 

[mikemarc1]

I guess my point isn’t about the criticism of Ash. Fine, he may deserve it.

But what was Pike done to be embraced by the fan base so much? 3 years into his tenure and he, like Ash, is still getting embarrassed by Big Ten teams.

 

[bac2therac]

because he is likable, hoops is a more intimate game and he didnt rub the fans the wrong way with his comments

oh he beat Seton Hall last year...and got two wins in the BE tourney and even with the issues this year managed to beat Ohio State...what as Ash done...rallying around that Purdue win last year

 

[mikemarc1]

because he is likable, hoops is a more intimate game and he didnt rub the fans the wrong way with his comments

Fair, but what’s he shown on the court? Legitimately interested because I’m not sure I see it.

 

[bac2therac]

coaching ability, getting less talented teams to compete...Ash was onto that last year...its this year where they lost it...the Kansas/Buffalo games lost the fanbase, not to mention the shitshow with Art and that Maryland game...the offense deplorable, the defense perhaps better at the end if you believe teams were giving us our best shot

Pikiell will be judged in year 4, you can count on that, he is getting some criticism this year. Because Ash is a total failure shouldnt be a reason to compare to why Pike isnt moving things along. Its apples and oranges really if you have been following the basketball program at all the past 27 years.

 

[mikemarc1]

coaching ability, getting less talented teams to compete...Ash was onto that last year...its this year where they lost it...the Kansas/Buffalo games lost the fanbase, not to mention the shitshow with Art and that Maryland game...the offense deplorable, the defense perhaps better at the end if you believe teams were giving us our best shot

Pikiell will be judged in year 4, you can count on that, he is getting some criticism this year. Because Ash is a total failure shouldnt be a reason to compare to why Pike isnt moving things along. Its apples and oranges really if you have been following the basketball program at all the past 27 years.

Fair enough. Didn’t mean to hijack the thread.

Criticism in my opinion is well deserved, as is Ash’s. Beginning to think neither guys are the answer...but we”ll see.

 

[BigEastPhil]

I’m assuming you didn’t follow the football team this year. Big Ten defeats by 3, 7, 13, 14 and 14. Respectable. And not all blow outs. Football team actually showed improvement

This just proves my point Ash is viewed totally different than Pikiell. Just weird, is all

It's cool and ok to defend Ash. I'm ok with that. We all want our teams to succeed. But I recall absolute blowout debacles vs Kansas, Buffalo and non competitive losses in so called winnable games such as Illinois, Maryland and Indiana. That wasn't very good plus the continued debacle with Sitkowski when he was not ready. Plus I think what gets Pike goodwill is he is busting his ass in recruiting; understands and respects the fan base and has adopted Rutgers dearly where I don't think Ash has exhibited any of the above attributes. My last sentence is I think what differentiates Pike from Ash.

 

[mikemarc1]

I’m assuming you didn’t follow the football team this year. Big Ten defeats by 3, 7, 13, 14 and 14. Respectable. And not all blow outs. Football team actually showed improvement

This just proves my point Ash is viewed totally different than Pikiell. Just weird, is all

It's cool and ok to defend Ash. I'm ok with that. We all want our teams to succeed. But I recall absolute blowout debacles vs Kansas, Buffalo and non competitive losses in so called winnable games such as Illinois, Maryland and Indiana. That wasn't very good plus the continued debacle with Sitkowski when he was not ready. Plus I think what gets Pike goodwill is he is busting his ass in recruiting; understands and respects the fan base and has adopted Rutgers dearly where I don't think Ash has exhibited any of the above attributes. My last sentence is I think what differentiates Pike from Ash.

That’s completely fair. So it seems like basically personality traits are the differential. And perceived love of the school. Performance in my opinion has been very similar..sure slight edge to Pike. But both deserve criticism for where they are at 3 years into tenures. Unacceptable to me.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

Too much bad information to clean up, but again we revise history.

Kiss was a player a lot of schools wanted and you have no idea you would have Mathis, McConnell or Mulcahy...none were committed at the time Kiss was landed.

Young, like it or not is a Top 125 player. He's better than Nigel Johnson.

You don't hit on every single recruit.....

McClung is a solid player, but does not change RUs record this year or next and is NOT a PG....he's playing off the ball....he is athletic and fast but last month bac said Strickland was a miss.....this month its McClung....neither is anywhere near the talent level of the bulk of the B1G....

The talent level is a factor....the athleticism or lack thereof is a factor.....we dont have elite speed or athleticism.

Souf Mensah has nothing to do with anything and was replaced by McConnell.....

I would agree with the overview but Eugene isn't athletic either, so I'm not quite sure what is being driven at. He's a very good development man by the staff, which it what it takes. But the player has to have a body or size to work with.

Doorson, Thiam are players that are asked to play through a rebuild but unless you're buying players left and right, it will take time.

The roster turnover is ugly and violent when you watch it happen. It's fine where we are, but i don't see how fans arrive at playing in the #1 league and asking for road wins or to be competitive every night.

If you didn't have a road win at Miami or defeating Ohio State as signs of progress, then all of the complaints would hold more weight. But fans act as if RU is the only team struggling with a rebuild....PSU Illinois and Northwestern all have pieces or players too.

The only way you accelerate this is getting more athletes to compete....fans asking for shooting are fine, but if you can't run, jump and defend or are step slower at every position, shooting threats mean very little, if they can't generate their own offense.

It takes 4 full classes to close the gaps and exit the Jordan era, which was Corey Sanders and not much else recruited over 4 years.

Step off the ledge folks....there's no "get 2 recruits and you're rebuilt", in basketball.....it's never happened anywhere on the planet and it's the biggest myth with no evidence behind it.

To compete in this league, you need 8 to 9 legit players spread out over 3 to 4 classes to balance things out. I think if we can upgrade this spring with another athlete who can defend and get another frontcourt player for down the road, RU will be better next year.

The building blocks are in place, just need more this spring assuming a transfer out happens.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Imo it might be time to start cutting some corners. Realistically, what do we have to lose?