GAME 20 PENN STATE: A Disgrace

[RUChoppin]

Mag was our best defender. Cliff was our most important defender. Caleb was known as our best defender.

Mag led the press and was a great onball defender. Caleb's defense took a small step backwards last year. Mag was a better on ball defender against most players. Caleb was more destructive in a help position in the half court causing turnovers. He definitely masked Paul and Cam's deficiencies with lateral quickness, bailing them out.. Gavin would have DEFINITELY benefited having Caleb.

Mag was a better on-ball defender against frontcourt players, and McConnell was better against backcourt players. That also led to McConnell picking up more steals, because he was harassing ball handlers and disrupting passing lanes between guards. Mag was better bodying post players than McConnell.

They both had the ability to switch onto pretty much anyone... but McConnell was better switching 1-4 defensively (especially the 2/3 roles), and Mag was better switching 2-5 (especially the 3/4 roles). McConnell generally drew the #1 non-center defensive assignment each game and was a bit more important to be on the floor (and saw more minutes per game).

They both were plus help defenders, but McConnell had an edge there. Mag was a better press defender and had an uncanny ability to just be in the right place at the right time to spring traps.

If Mag had continued to develop uninterrupted last year, I feel he could have surpassed McConnell by the final handful of games... he was really growing more and more into that defensive role as the season wore on.

 

[Scangg]

Caleb had a better defensive season the year before he won National DPOY

 

[RUsojo]

I don't want to spend too much time rehashing last season's arguments, but both the supposed straw man and what you claim to be the actual argument don't make a lot of sense to me.

Mag was playing the fewest minutes of any of the starters when he went down last season (on the order of 25mpg if I remember correctly) which suggests both that the staff did not feel he was some generational talent but also that they did not feel that the team could not function without him.

I supposed it is theoretically possible that the team was some beautiful but delicate house of cards and that the removal of any one piece was destined to bring the whole thing down. I certainly can't prove it isn't the case.

That said, it seems far more likely to me that a number of things started to go wrong around the same time. The most visible and obvious change was the absence of Mag so the entire change in the team's play gets attributed to that (or things that were supposedly direct consequences of that).

Mag's absensce hurt us, for sure, especially on the defensive end. But there is no obvious reason that going from 25 minutes Mag/15 minutes Hyatt to like 32 minutes Hyatt + slightly increased roles for Palmquist and other backups needed to kill us. At that time Mag was starting to edge Hyatt out for PT but they were still viewed as similar quality players and there were serious debates on this board about who was better.

Instead, what happened was Paul tanked, Hyatt tanked, and we were left with the shitshow we saw. Did Mag's absence reduce our ability to adapt to this bad play from Paul and Hyatt? Absolutely. Did it cause the bad play? There is no obvious mechanism for how it did.

I need to stop before I get in to Hawk level length territory so tldr a lot of stuff including Mag's injury went wrong at the same time. I don't think they're as connected as you and many others on the board believe.

Well said

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Caleb had a better defensive season the year before he won National DPOY

I think he just stood out more in stopping the opponent’s beat player because he had to focus less on help D on the perimeter with Geo out there. We had more weak links on the court at all times last season and yet somehow we compensated. It was impressive.

This year by the way, our guards are all solid individually on ball and in close outs with defense. Pike hasn’t had that in a while. It’s really a shame nobody can shoot.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

This could be one of those really really bad teams that you see go 2-18 in conference if it wasn't for the defense our guards play and the improved defense from Hyatt.

 

[Nycrusupporter]

I'm not sure this staff is equipped to work on those things or prioritizes it.

We all knew RHJs shot was low. For years it was never addressed.
It was blatant.

As soon as he turned started working on getting Draft ready - he immediately started working on raising his shot.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/lists/nba-draft-ron-harper-interview-rutgers-scouting-report

" I think that my release point has gotten so much higher. This is the highest my release point has ever been. I used to hit the front rim a lot. No one had ever told me to raise my release point. Even last year, I shot 40% on 3-pointers even with a low release point."

He also lost 30 pounds . . .

But this is not just happening at Rutgers, it is pretty much the state of affairs in college basketball. It is a big reason the NBA wants to get players into their programs as young as possible, so they learn to play the game the right way and get in the best possible physical condition.

 

[NickRU714]

He also lost 30 pounds . . .

But this is not just happening at Rutgers, it is pretty much the state of affairs in college basketball. It is a big reason the NBA wants to get players into their programs as young as possible, so they learn to play the game the right way and get in the best possible physical condition.

Agreed.
That why I included that maybe it's not a priority for any staff to do massive development.

They only get so much time with the players and have to prioritize what they can focus on.

 

[bac2therac]

Mag was our best defender. Cliff was our most important defender. Caleb was known as our best defender.

Mag led the press and was a great onball defender. Caleb's defense took a small step backwards last year. Mag was a better on ball defender against most players. Caleb was more destructive in a help position in the half court causing turnovers. He definitely masked Paul and Cam's deficiencies with lateral quickness, bailing them out.. Gavin would have DEFINITELY benefited having Caleb.

truth bombs

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

truth bombs

The two things were interrelated. Caleb was asked to be a help machine. He did a great job but by default there’s likely a small amount of drop off with on ball if you have to have eyes all around your head to be there on help.

Oddly - that’s where Hawk would have an argument on the whole Paul discussion. Not on offense but on D. Hyatt’s D is better than it was. He took real strides. But still. Paul, Hyatt and Gavin together on the floor might not have been playable on D without a Caleb. Even if we scored more. As an example.

 

[ScarletNut]

This is partially accurate, though no one can deny that Cliff has been a significant let down.

The problem with Cliff is he hasn't developed any ballhandling or shooting skills beyond 3 feet from the basket. That along with a low bball IQ and bad hands makes it imperative that he has a good to great surrounding cast. He doesn't know how to handle double teams. His forte is blocking shots and to an extent, rebounding. Fundamentally, he isn't a great defensive player, but instead is an intimidator at the rim when he is in good position on a driving player. If he picks up a player more than 5-6 feet away from the basket, they invariably make a move on him and get off a good shot. I'm referring mostly to smaller guards and wings but also to big men with skills.