Get used to this: Steve Pikiell Team’s, High Floor, Low Ceiling

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

The style that pike plays is a style that gives you a really high floor because you play balls to the wall every possession every night and that always gives you a chance in the case a team has an off night or doesnt have their legs. However, him totally ignoring offense and analytics and still treating the game like it’s the 80’s will keep the ceiling very low, in fact I think this year right now is just about the ceiling.

the reason we go into long scoring droughts is because when you dont run an offense the only thing you can rely on is your guys winning one on one matchups and often times just playing one on one leads to lower % shots later in the shot clock. If teams prevent us from getting out and running this happens alot.

love pike, think hes a great guy but he really needs to just do some soul searching and realize offensive basketball isnt his thing and he needs to bring in an offensive mind as an assistant. Ideally its done this off-season so he can take his next step as a coach and RU’s next step as a program

 

[sct1111]

Honestly, were just not that talented offensively. That's why we have a lower ceiling. We're a shooter or two away from being a good or very good offense IMO. Pike has turned us into a borderline top 25 team with the 246th (?) Most experienced team in the country. I think we're good BECAUSE of Pikes style not in spite of it.

 

[RUPete]

When will you enter the poster transfer portal?

 

[superfan01]

Honestly, were just not that talented offensively. That's why we have a lower ceiling. We're a shooter or two away from being a good or very good offense IMO.

This. I like pikes style. I think kyk is way off here. We are getting more out of less. Our talent level on recruiting was way below many of these BIG teams. He is getting a lot out of under recruited kids who have limitations

 

[YoucancallmeRay]

Did you see Rutghoops postings? He showed the offenses that RU runs. You honestly think Coach and his assistants don't run a decent offense? Come on now. It's execution of the offense, not whether we have decent sets. Stop listening to yourself.

 

[IL Lusciato]

Did you see Rutghoops postings? He showed the offenses that RU runs. You honestly think Coach and his assistants don't run a decent offense? Come on now. It's execution of the offense, not whether we have decent sets. Stop listening to yourself.

Can you link to this post?

 

[Knight Ed]

Better recruits would equal a better offense. There's reasons these guys were "under recruited".

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Did you see Rutghoops postings? He showed the offenses that RU runs. You honestly think Coach and his assistants don't run a decent offense? Come on now. It's execution of the offense, not whether we have decent sets. Stop listening to yourself.

We dont run an offense. The only offense we run is motion, horns and pick and roll. Stuff elementary school girls rec teams run

 

[Scarlet Shack]

The style that pike plays is a style that gives you a really high floor because you play balls to the wall every possession every night and that always gives you a chance in the case a team has an off night or doesnt have their legs. However, him totally ignoring offense and analytics and still treating the game like it’s the 80’s will keep the ceiling very low, in fact I think this year right now is just about the ceiling.

the reason we go into long scoring droughts is because when you dont run an offense the only thing you can rely on is your guys winning one on one matchups and often times just playing one on one leads to lower % shots later in the shot clock. If teams prevent us from getting out and running this happens alot.

love pike, think hes a great guy but he really needs to just do some soul searching and realize offensive basketball isnt his thing and he needs to bring in an offensive mind as an assistant. Ideally its done this off-season so he can take his next step as a coach and RU’s next step as a program

Thumbs down and clueless ....

 

[brookdale-soda]

I dont know what youre watching. We get wide open shots. We either are afraid to take them and make the unnecessary extra pass or miss them. When shooting improves, so will the offense.

If anything its decision making on open shots that needs to improve. The offense is fine.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Honestly, were just not that talented offensively. That's why we have a lower ceiling. We're a shooter or two away from being a good or very good offense IMO. Pike has turned us into a borderline top 25 team with the 246th (?) Most experienced team in the country. I think we're good BECAUSE of Pikes style not in spite of it.

This. We are one of the youngest teams in the nation, in terms of minutes played, do not have a bunch of four and five star guys, and knowingly don’t have a lot of great shooters. Imagine what happens when he gets a couple guys who can shoot mixed with the rest of his type of guys!

Stop predicting the future, negatively, based on this season... it’s silly.

 

[YoucancallmeRay]

Can you link to this post?

This is one of Rutghoops posts in response to kyk

Respectfully disagree.

Do you think the non-Powell players on SHU (for example) have the freedom to take 7, 8, 9 shots? Maryland? Ohio State?

Many/most College offenses are designed to get the best players the most shots. We run 3 out 2 in sets, 1 out 4 in sets, 4 out 1 in sets, with the goal in each to get the best shot for whomever has the right shot come available. Except for end game, our sets are designed not to get a certain player shots but rather get any one of 6 players a good shot.

The differences in the sets Purdue runs this year versus last year is stark. They run many more variations than they did versus last year when the goal of the offense was to get Carsen Edwards in to certain spots.

So, yes the way we run our offense is designed to equally distribute shots. We certainly ran different stuff when the goal was to get Corey 15 shots.

Does the below look at all familiar ( think Yeboah as the “3” and Ron as the “4”). It’s the same motion to how Villanova runs 4 out/1 in

 

[YoucancallmeRay]

Here's another from Rutghoops agreeing with Hawk in response to kyk.

Every team in the country runs a similar 1-4 set (not an iso, please stop calling it an iso) in late game situations. The difference between the "best" player on a college team and the 5th option on a college team is night and day. That is why you will see 90+% of CBB teams run that 1-4 set. (Link 1 is an isolation offense, Link 2 is a 1-4 offense. Very different things).

As for our offense, I am not sure there is a team in the country that distributes shots more equitably than Rutgers. You are free to argue whether that is good or bad, but it is fact. We have seven (7!) players averaging between 7.3 and 9.6 shots per game. Good luck finding another CBB team that distributes shots like that and good luck convincing ANYONE involved in CBB that you can do that without running a structured offense.

https://www.coachesclipboard.net/Isolation2.html

https://www.coachesclipboard.net/14Stack.html

65 RutgHoops, Monday at 2:51 PM

 

[RU848789]

Honestly, were just not that talented offensively. That's why we have a lower ceiling. We're a shooter or two away from being a good or very good offense IMO. Pike has turned us into a borderline top 25 team with the 246th (?) Most experienced team in the country. I think we're good BECAUSE of Pikes style not in spite of it.

Been saying that for awhile. Put a couple of really good shooters on this team (that still buy-in to Pike's defensive philosophy) and these silly posts would stop.

 

[Westcoast]

We dont run an offense. The only offense we run is motion, horns and pick and roll. Stuff elementary school girls rec teams run

Did you notice that virtually all our opponents run similar stuff to us?

The goal of an offense is to get to easiest shot possible - like layups. We are actually pretty good at it. Now that no one takes us lightly things have become a bit more difficult. But we still do very well in the paint. Go back the last 20 years and find an RU team that scores more in the paint than us.

 

[biazza38]

U r honestly one of the worst basketball fans. It’s as if you are actively rooting against RU just so you can be right. We win, you complain. You lose, you rip the staff so much. Get lost

 

[RutgersDom]

The style that pike plays is a style that gives you a really high floor because you play balls to the wall every possession every night and that always gives you a chance in the case a team has an off night or doesnt have their legs. However, him totally ignoring offense and analytics and still treating the game like it’s the 80’s will keep the ceiling very low, in fact I think this year right now is just about the ceiling.

the reason we go into long scoring droughts is because when you dont run an offense the only thing you can rely on is your guys winning one on one matchups and often times just playing one on one leads to lower % shots later in the shot clock. If teams prevent us from getting out and running this happens alot.

love pike, think hes a great guy but he really needs to just do some soul searching and realize offensive basketball isnt his thing and he needs to bring in an offensive mind as an assistant. Ideally its done this off-season so he can take his next step as a coach and RU’s next step as a program

I agree a bit here but I put more of a need on some pure shooters (Think Iowa) from 3. We are way too inconsistent from down town to really even start to dissect his offensive coaching grade. I think when we get that you will feel differently about Pike. btw, this is the second post on this subject, let's not rain on a nice season with this over and over like you usually do. Save the next post to the offseason. we all know how you feel already...

 

[zappaa]

We very, very rarely get the wide open, set your feet, take your time 3s...like we give up a half dozen times per game.
We can go multiple games without one

 

[Vegas pj]

When will you enter the poster transfer portal?

Post of the year!

 

[Vegas pj]

We dont run an offense. The only offense we run is motion, horns and pick and roll. Stuff elementary school girls rec teams run

Like the rec teams you played for?

 

[AreYouNUTS]

When will you enter the poster transfer portal?

Post of the year!

 

[Scangg]

Here's another from Rutghoops agreeing with Hawk in response to kyk.

Every team in the country runs a similar 1-4 set (not an iso, please stop calling it an iso) in late game situations. The difference between the "best" player on a college team and the 5th option on a college team is night and day. That is why you will see 90+% of CBB teams run that 1-4 set. (Link 1 is an isolation offense, Link 2 is a 1-4 offense. Very different things).

As for our offense, I am not sure there is a team in the country that distributes shots more equitably than Rutgers. You are free to argue whether that is good or bad, but it is fact. We have seven (7!) players averaging between 7.3 and 9.6 shots per game. Good luck finding another CBB team that distributes shots like that and good luck convincing ANYONE involved in CBB that you can do that without running a structured offense.

https://www.coachesclipboard.net/Isolation2.html

https://www.coachesclipboard.net/14Stack.html

65 RutgHoops, Monday at 2:51 PM

An interesting discussion would be if maybe we should try to get certain players more shots than others. No one on the team has been consistent enough to earn it really. We just need to identify who has the hot hand each game and get them more looks and minutes. I think Pike has started to sit players more who are having a bad game and give people more who play well instead of only set rotations which I like

 

[Scangg]

Kyk, I don't know how you can say this is Pike's peak. We are still a bad 3 point shooting team. You don't think it's possible we find some better shooters at any point? Incoming class? Transfer? Or that the current players shoot it better next season? I bet Geo and Harper shoot a better percentage next year from 3, Young too

Also, what about recruiting? This is the first year Rutgers hasn't been a bottom team in the league. We are in the B1G. New practice facility. All 3 incoming recruits seem to be able to shoot it a bit. Pike will now have a full year to recruit after a winning season, national ranking, etc. You don't think that should lead to a good class next season?

 

[ru-baby]

Man this OP really has a Pike obsession.

 

[RU89]

We dont run an offense. The only offense we run is motion, horns and pick and roll. Stuff elementary school girls rec teams run

You are truly one of the biggest blowhards of all time. You simply can't be an enjoyable person to be around. And if you say you have a lot of friends, then they aren't enjoyable either.

 

[Caliknight]

Ky serious question- do you not get attention at home?

 

[knights1212]

Our offense works very hard every day in practice. One or two dead eye shooters of course would help but kyk is way off base here.

 

[S_Janowski]

It’s a talent thing.

You can post the same thing a million times but it won’t change that.

 

[RW90]

I recall FHJ once saying in a postgame how the game is so much tougher and uglier when shots don't fall. Players are human, they get frustrated just like us fans plus it's hard to play with the same intensity. Yesterday's game was lost in our recruiting, not in Pike's in game strategy.

 

[AshCatchEm]

I don't really agree with this. We are getting involved with higher level recruits than ever before. Even mulcahy was a step up last year.

 

[brad1218]

We very, very rarely get the wide open, set your feet, take your time 3s...like we give up a half dozen times per game.
We can go multiple games without one

Well that’s just not true. First, we do get those shots each game. Second we get many ahots that we pass up because guys lack confidence to shoot. Could we get more? Yes. That would require and lighting fast PG that we severely lack to beat guys off the dribble.

 

[The RUT]

I just never understood why we don’t set screens in the post for Geo to run the baseline to get a corner/wing 3.

Instead we’re running it at the elbow 3 pt line and never get even a look at the basket with it.

Remember those screens Douby used to run through all game long? I would die to see that.

 

[The RUT]

Well that’s just not true. First, we do get those shots each game. Second we get many ahots that we pass up because guys lack confidence to shoot. Could we get more? Yes. That would require and lighting fast PG that we severely lack to beat guys off the dribble.

What games are you watching?

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

It’s a talent thing.

You can post the same thing a million times but it won’t change that.

We don't run an offense but lets assume what you're saying is true. Is the talent getting better than what we have though?

Put it this way, if our guys walked into a gym and played a pick up game vs iowa with no coaches on the sidelines and all the guys having never been coached by fran or by pike, who wins? I think our guys talent level would have us win by a landslide personally. We're much more talented than them, they're just much better coached.

 

[RUsojo]

Offensively I see the biggest issues as horrible guard combinations and playing too many guys and playing them too soon in games.

For me Xs and Os come after that.

Talent is on Pike but based on what he inherited it’s way too soon to bang Pike for that.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

This is one of Rutghoops posts in response to kyk

Respectfully disagree.

Do you think the non-Powell players on SHU (for example) have the freedom to take 7, 8, 9 shots? Maryland? Ohio State?

Many/most College offenses are designed to get the best players the most shots. We run 3 out 2 in sets, 1 out 4 in sets, 4 out 1 in sets, with the goal in each to get the best shot for whomever has the right shot come available. Except for end game, our sets are designed not to get a certain player shots but rather get any one of 6 players a good shot.

The differences in the sets Purdue runs this year versus last year is stark. They run many more variations than they did versus last year when the goal of the offense was to get Carsen Edwards in to certain spots.

So, yes the way we run our offense is designed to equally distribute shots. We certainly ran different stuff when the goal was to get Corey 15 shots.

Does the below look at all familiar ( think Yeboah as the “3” and Ron as the “4”). It’s the same motion to how Villanova runs 4 out/1 in

thats not an offense LOL. That's a pass and then a screen lol.

 

[RutgHoops]

We start four sophomores. We are one of the younger teams in the country. This roster has a bunch of growth left in it.

I don't post this often, but I played pretty high level D-1 college basketball. Have spent a TON of time around high level D-1 college HCs. I understand the dynamics of message boards and call in radio and twitter/social media, etc. But those who claim "we don't run an offense" truly have no idea what they are talking about.

I have posted examples of the sets we run and what they are designed to do. Do folks truly believe there are 100s of different offenses? Seriously? There are maybe a dozen different base sets that college HCs run. Whether you are Coach K or the guy who coaches the worst team in D3 you are going to run: 4 out/1in, 3out/2in, motion, pick and roll, etc. If you understand basketball you can see and understand what sets we run.

As I said, I get the nature of the message board dynamic. And I apologize, but I feel the need to call out truly awful takes.

And none of that is the reason the OP is waaayyyy off. What Coach P does better than 95% of the HCs in the country (imo) is develop talent. There is not more than 2 or 3 kids I have seen that have not gotten just about max potential out of their ability. That is why Coach P will win here. And possibly win big.

 

[RU-05]

We don't run an offense but lets assume what you're saying is true. Is the talent getting better than what we have though?

Put it this way, if our guys walked into a gym and played a pick up game vs iowa with no coaches on the sidelines and all the guys having never been coached by fran or by pike, who wins? I think our guys talent level would have us win by a landslide personally. We're much more talented than them, they're just much better coached.

Iowa had by far the better shooters, and the best overall player on the court.

 

[blockm2]

We don't run an offense but lets assume what you're saying is true. Is the talent getting better than what we have though?

Put it this way, if our guys walked into a gym and played a pick up game vs iowa with no coaches on the sidelines and all the guys having never been coached by fran or by pike, who wins? I think our guys talent level would have us win by a landslide personally. We're much more talented than them, they're just much better coached.

Iowa has at least 3-4 kids on their team that were more highly rated as recruits than anybody on the Rutgers roster (except perhaps Young who has major issues offensively) and they have more kids that are likely to see their name called in the NBA draft.

I cannot see any way to argue Rutgers has a more talented roster.

 

[RU-05]

We start four sophomores. We are one of the younger teams in the country. This roster has a bunch of growth left in it.

I don't post this often, but I played pretty high level D-1 college basketball. Have spent a TON of time around high level D-1 college HCs. I understand the dynamics of message boards and call in radio and twitter/social media, etc. But those who claim "we don't run an offense" truly have no idea what they are talking about.

I have posted examples of the sets we run and what they are designed to do. Do folks truly believe there are 100s of different offenses? Seriously? There are maybe a dozen different base sets that college HCs run. Whether you are Coach K or the guy who coaches the worst team in D3 you are going to run: 4 out/1in, 3out/2in, motion, pick and roll, etc. If you understand basketball you can see and understand what sets we run.

As I said, I get the nature of the message board dynamic. And I apologize, but I feel the need to call out truly awful takes.

The rest of your post is great, especially since most of us dont have this experience, but the bolded is the perfect counter to the op's point that we will never have a high ceiling.

In college there seems to be 2 ways to have high ceilings. 1st is to get the most talented players, we haven't done that yet. The 2nd is to get a bunch of good players and let them develop. A core of good seniors tend to be very good teams. This is where we are heading. Next year the ceiling rises higher. Even without Geo I think it rises another notch in 2 years.