How many generations has this country asked to sign up and charge at enemy machine guns ?
This one we ask to just wear a friggin mask...and they have a problem with that.
It is a done deal? BigTen Is Canceling Football Season Tuesday?
- Thread starter miklosru
- Start date
This one we ask to just wear a friggin mask...and they have a problem with that.
Can sit inside a bar or restaurant or diner. Can't bet or watch sports inside Monmouth Park while eating or drinking even water. Can't go on the Intrepid in NYC where half of it is outside. Nearly beach hit their limit in Ocean and Monmouth Counties by 10:15 am Sunday. The list is endless what can't be done.
Personally? I am risk-adverse. But I do not demand that others live as cautiously as I do.
What does that do for you? What can you brand me with now?
It is about FREEDOM and rights.
It is somewhat related to this concept.
The right says to tax as little as possible and people will choose where to spend their money on charitable endeavors.
The left says to tax everyone a lot and let the government decide what charitable endeavors deserve money.
It is two different approaches.. one trusts the people to decide for themselves.
Last edited:
That sounds rough. Thank you for your sacrifice. :USA: :America: :AmericanFlag::USA: :America: :AmericanFlag::USA: :America: :AmericanFlag:
It's unexplained. There could be many reasons. Simply it could be because people are being checked thouroghly now more than ever, they are finding it more. There is an assumption there is a connection but no science to prove it.
One of my cousins called it the "degeneration".
Yes we are sacrificing people's livelihood. Businesses, small businesses, long time family owned businesses. Millions of jobs. And you think that is funny?? What an asshole.
It is. And people should be able to manage their own risks... make their own choices as much as possible. We should always side with FREEDOM here.. not with CONTROL.
what makes you think all trump fans don't wear masks or all trump haters do? get real and stop the bs---anyone not thinking for themselves ,and there are trump haters that don't as well as well as his fans that don't ,have no common sense --and these blanket statements are tiring
You mean the ONE example you could come up with? Same way they did at that time... it is kind of amazing that they offered to remove her gall bladder to "cure" her and she said "no".. thus choosing isolation. I suppose they might have killed her.. if they could make a case that she knowingly took jobs that would put her employers' families at risk. I am generally against the death penalty so imprisonment and isolation would have been my choice.
We're talking about teams within conferences within an organized sports infrastructure. People don't get to make their own decisions in that context.
Also, making individual decisions doesn't work to quell a pandemic.
None of what we're dealing with is equivalent to managing your own individual risk. The hard edge of personal freedom has always been just before it intersects with someone else.
So, basically, no to everything you just said.
The economy is recovering, albeit uneven and not rock solid just yet, chicomvirus seems to be slowing in the Sunbelt states, stock markets are back to records, the polls are tightening, their candidate can't string two coherent sentences together...they're getting very, very nervous and becoming unhinged. Again.
SO if the Big Ten said they would play.. and players could make their own decisions without any effect on their scholarships and they cleared it with the NCAA to maintain eligibility for anyone choosing not to play... wouldn't that then become an individual choice?
What about the people who have to be there to support the players?
Coaches, staff, academic tutors, trainers, housekeeping, cafeteria staff
Essential workers have no choice.. or do they? Everyone has a choice or could be given one, even "Coaches, staff, academic tutors, trainers, housekeeping, cafeteria staff".
Forcing them to NOT work is not a choice.
If you polled every person involved.. do you think the majority would say yes to a football season or no?
I think it would be a yes. I could be wrong. But let us put it to the test. Give everyone the choice.
We mandate vaccines for school children to save tens of thousands of lives and prevent hundreds of thousands of illnesses per year and we have laws against drunk driving and not texting while driving. Do you think these are unnecessary infringement on your freedoms? Like wearing a mask, all of these infringe slightly on freedoms in order to protect other people, not just the individual.
Do you not think that requiring masks (and doing testing/tracing/isolating) to prevent potentially 25-50X the deaths we see each year for the flu (COVID has 5-10X the infection fatality rate of flu and is likely to infect ~5X more people as the flu in a year, so 25-50X more, assuming we have no cures/vaccines and don't do any interventions) is worth it?
We do that so they can go to school safely.. not to prevent them from getting an education.
"potentially 25-50X the deaths we see each year for the flu"
Or potentially 2X the number of deaths from flu. Or potentially 0.5X the deaths from flu.
is 1X regular flu deaths the allowable limit? If one year there were 2X flu deaths would we then close school the following year?
What's the current death rate for children for CoVid? Much less than flu, right? Even in states where they are still being children.. playing together, etc.
Imagine classrooms with teachers in masks, protecting themselves. Why don't teachers unions want teachers to teach and wear masks? What's up with that?
The one where the person in question dodged the ask.
The jury seems still to be out, yet some of the recent statistics for COVID death rate suggest a .2% mortality rate, with the highest number of deaths among elderly, those with preconditions, and those who have compromised immunity systems. Of course, many older folks fit all three categories. So, 2 out of every 1,000 infected die of the virus if we can believe that .2% mortality rate. Personally, I fear that working so hard to slow transmission rates of the virus have merely served to prolong its presence. Therefore, given that individuals with robust immune systems may have a higher likelihood of coming out of a COVID infection unscathed, I have to wonder if postponement of college sports is good medical advice or fear of litigation, (athletes sue if they contract the disease when ‘forced’ to play)? My sense is that the latter would be the go-to for universities. Ask athletes to sign a waiver? Could be problematic. It’s a Gordian Knot for sure.
Let me slow this down for you then...Our states got CRUSHED in March and April...Lockdowns went into place and majority of NJ/NYC shut themselves in, social distanced and took precautions. Let me know if I am moving to quickly for you.
We get into June/July/August and we are seeing the positive results of those months we ****ing followed the rules. Positives have gone down and so have deaths. Downward trend. Meanwhile- our friends all over the country gave it a hohum take and pretty much thought of it as a NE problem and not theirs. They did not do what we did. They are seeing the ramifications now.
OK-still following? I am betting you are not and already looking to respond with stupidity.
NY/NJ in the summer, decided to move into aggressive phases of re-opening and I admit to also getting out to dinner a few times and visiting friends in outdoor situations. Even considering a long weekend somewhere.
But...we have not seen the results of this lax approach as of yet and I fear that we may still see it back here again. So- you are right that as of this moment, we are not in lockdown and have not been in a couple of months. But the heavy lockdown as early as we could allowed us to get to this point.
Your response makes no sense. I've posted this at least 10 times, but here we go again. An average flu season (2010-2017; the last 2 years are "preliminary" so not included) has 34K deaths, but remember, that's the product of a model, not actual confirmed deaths - in all those years there hasn't been more than 15K confirmed flu deaths. COVID deaths are almost all confirmed (and known to be undercounted vs. excess deaths) and we have 167K now which is ~5X an average flu season - so it's already 5X, which makes your 0.5X and 2X nonsensical.
Currently, we're seeing about 1/2 the deaths per cases we saw in wave 1, due to the combo of a much younger age profile, many more less sick positives (early on, only signficantly symptomatic people got tested and schools/colleges were shut down as were most people), and much improved medical procedures/treatments. That would make the comparison 12-25X the death rate of the flu from here on out, instead of 25-50X - and I believe that will drop much more when engineered antibodies come out this fall and even further with vaccines by the end of the year. But since those outcomes aren't guaranteed, it certainly seems to me that preventing even 12-25X the deaths (and 3-5X that many hospitalized) is worth wearing masks and distancing.
Also, with regard to children, the number of deaths from COVID is now about equal to flu and climbing, so it's likely to be a bit greater soon and the number of cases in children has increased by 90% the past 4 weeks. The cases in children were hugely suppressed by the closure of schools and lockdowns.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/11/health/covid-19-children-cases-rising-wellness/index.html
If the COVID infection fatality rate were 0.2%, nothing would've shut down. Based on serology testing and confirmed deaths, it's between 0.5-1.0% in most locations (it's 1.1% in NY and Spain, which have the best antibody testing so far) and the CDC estimates it will be 0.65%. Plus, ~5X or more people will likely catch COVID vs. the flu in a year (only ~10% get the flu), so to get comparative death rates, one needs to factor in far more people getting it. That's where the 25-50X (5-10 times 5) the number of flu deaths gets calculated. And as I just replied it looks like the most recent data is showing half the death rate of the first wave, which is great, but let's see if that's sustained and even if it is, it brings the comparison down to 12-25X the flu. And that's just deaths - we know the rate of hospitalizations is also higher.
Have not seen the results of this lax approach? Check the NJ death rates and hospitalizations over last 6 weeks and then check back in.
You're lucky there. Where I am (DirecTV in Massachusetts), I have to pay for a separate "regional" sports package which gives me ACC Sports, SEC, and .. I think the PAC-12 .. along with BTN. Although, I can count the number of times on one hand that I've ever watched any of those.
We didnt see the lax approach of Jan- Early March until April/May...
We also saw about 60% or so of NYC and a large part of the at risk population hit early too. So, that actually cuts down the number of people that could catch the next wave.
I am hoping we don't have a heavy, disastrous 2nd wave come fall/winter but I wouldnt bet my life against it.
I admire your persistence. But you're wasting your time with this one.
Never trust anyone who says they just want freedom. They never just want freedom.
Football players will get Covid regardless if playing football or not. Parties, hookups, whatever hanging with friends is gonna happen.
And masks will be the new norm to prevent spreading regular flu. You laugh now but wait.
And masks will be the new norm to prevent spreading regular flu. You laugh now but wait.
You shouldn't talk about issues with coherent sentences when your guy just said this:
"The closest thing is in 1917, they say, the great pandemic. It certainly was a terrible thing where they lost anywhere from 50 to 100 million people, probably ended the Second World War," Trump said. "All the soldiers were sick. That was a terrible situation."
You guys aren't paying me enough. Spring it is! I also chuckle at people whining about "forcing" players to play in Feb-April and then again in Sep-Nov - many of the same folks who had no issue "forcing" players to play while the chance of catching COVID (and passing it on to family/friends) is so high. Hopefully we have much better treatment/prevention options in place by January.
Similar threads
