Poor France... it just keeps happens over there, WTF is going on?!?
Too many people are being murder, and for what?
Too many people are being murder, and for what?
OT: Another terrorist attack- 80 + dead in Nice, France
- Thread starter keav8447
- Start date
The "Christian thing" is not a solid comparison and it's actually offensive to every practicing Christian. People aren't killing in the name of Jesus. Please stop.
Agree that there's a balance to be struck. And I think it's reasonable to debate the point at which balance has been achieved.
But Obama and all prior presidents discussing the issue of Islamic terrorism have always been extremely careful to distinguish between ordinary Muslims and Muslim terrorists or extremists. I'm not in their heads and I don't know exactly why they've all been so careful. But I have to think that, from a pure numbers standpoint, it's wise to avoid gratuitously irritating 1.7B Muslims by demonizing their religion, even if the great preponderance of international terrorism is related to Islam in some way.
And it's wise to remember that Islamic fundamentalists WANT a holy war. They WANT Americans and Europeans to ban Muslims, to speak out against Islam. They WANT the world to isolate and attack Muslims as much as possible. Those are their secondary strategic goals; the primary goal being to unite the entire Muslim world against non-Muslims.
When people like Trump talk about banning Muslims, it actually rewards the Islamic extremist's tactics (terrorist attacks). It helps them win. Not demonizing Muslims is not about being politically correct. It's not about being nice. It's about winning the propaganda game, and winning the numbers game.
Nobody should stick their head in the sand and ignore any details of the attacks (not even the fact about which religion is common to the attackers). But how we talk about it? How we react to it? And how much or little we're willing to sacrifice in terms of individual freedoms? Those are the things that will define how successful the terrorists attacks are.
Yes it is. If you're offended by that, then you should probably exit the Internet and not come back.
People get too hung up on religion, which is not useful at all. The Nazi thing does not apply here. The Nazis were the leaders of the state, so the state was our enemy. The terrorists are not the leaders of Islam, so Islam is not the enemy. Some people (not you) truly fail to grasp this.
Yeah, no crazy ever killed in the name of Jesus/Christianity. (Just because you didn't hear about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen).
You hush, sir.
But they are killing in the name of Islam and using religion as the motivating component for their barbarity
I was using the Nazi example in regards to identifying the enemy
This is nuts and could never happen...
But sometimes I think about what would happen if the media refused to cover terrorist attacks at all. Not an original idea, really. People have often said that the media should refuse to cover mass shootings so as to take away the 15 minutes of fame the shooters are seeking.
You can imagine some terrorist jerks sitting in some cave in the ME watching CNN or FOX via satellite and knowing an attack was about to place. And they keep watching all day and all night. But there's never any report of anything. Absolutely zero coverage.
They would be soooooo frustrated. After a second day of non-reports, they'd be outside beating their camels. It'd be great. And if that just kept happening? No media coverage of any kind. No statements by any politicians. No commentary by witnesses. Nothing.
Contrast that with the ISIS butt-munches watching all the news and reaction from France last night on cable news and giving each other high fives, then going out for some celebratory sex with their camels.
Ah well. Like I said. It's nuts. Could never happen. But I like to imagine ways in which we can totally mess with the terrorists minds. You know, right before we drop a cruise missile on their heads.
Mental illness is a big issue and more money needs to be put towards identifying those who are ill and treating them properly. Also, the mentally ill should not have access to guns for obvious reasons. That would definitely help to reduce attacks. But trying to equate radical Islam with your mythically wrong idea of Christianity doesn't solve the problem. Most Muslims are good, peaceful people. The issue isn't with Islam, it's with radical Islam and we no matter our religion should be working together to find a way to promote peace and love between each other, not hate. The problem needs to be addressed, not ignored.
Don't think that's incongruent with what I said. I agree, outside of the implication that anyone that kills in the name of Christianity (or choose any other religion, if you prefer) is mentally ill. What makes those individuals similar to radical Muslims is that both are misconstruing or misusing religion as a tool of violence. The problem, as you say, lies with the individuals, not the religion.
Anyone who wants to read about "radical islam" here you go. All one of these groups has to do is take a pacifist muslim into a more radical salafist, usually through some convincing about non-muslims occupying their lands. It's really not that difficult, if you already adhere to the principals.
http://muslimmatters.org/2014/04/22/on-salafi-islam-dr-yasir-qadhi/
http://muslimmatters.org/2014/04/22/on-salafi-islam-dr-yasir-qadhi/
Ok, I see where you are coming from and I agree. Some people are misusing religion for their own selfish purposes. Yes I'm not saying all or even most of the attackers whatever there motives are mentally ill, but mental illness is an area where more investment is needed.
Straight-up, unvarnished Islam holds secular law as invalid - only law from Allah as articulated by Mohamed is legit. Sahria law is law from Muhammad teachings and the life of Muhammad as recorded (hadith). Sharia law calls for death of anyone who leaves Islam. It calls for death of anyone who offends the prophet or his memory, image etc. (thats why Muslims go crazy over cartoons - they aren't being "extremists" or "hijackers"). Of course sharia calls for head-chopping, amputations, child brides, killing homosexuals, raping of conquered women etc.The radicals are doing Islam as founded. Westerners get flumoxed because a lot of Koran is a direct rip-off of Jewish/Christian bibles so they think the religions are common in intent when they aren't.
Christian bible says not to get drunk, sleep around, riot etc. But people do these things while calling themselves Christians anyway. Many Muslims don't do violence but not because the religion bans it
Would be funny, if not for the success of the Le Pen family & National Front. They keep getting elected, they're not a joke.
why do I feel ashamed to share something in common with a few people in this thread?
A lot of you are proving what is wrong in the world today.
A lot of you are proving what is wrong in the world today.
I don't think so. When we bomb a bunch of terrorists in a building, we try to do so in a way that minimizes any harm to non-combatants. But in certain contexts, accidental, unintended harm is caused. In the sense you use it, that's what collateral damage is.
When Al-Qaeda flew planes into the twin towers, they indiscriminately intended to kill everybody in the towers, and in the surrounding areas. There didn't care what religion anybody was and were as perfectly happy to kill Muslim Americans as Jewish Americans or Christian Americans.
ISIS is actually killing more Muslims than anybody else.
That the possible fact that a few bad eggs celebrated 9/11 shouldn't mean anything more than a few bad eggs celebrated 9/11. An attempt to leverage their bad behavior to demonize anybody else in the community, regardless of religion, would be wrong.
I think she will win. I'm very happy to see Europe finally take their security and sovereignty seriously. The cherry on top would be Merkel paying for the damage she's caused.
oldman, let me get this straight: It's France's fault? Wow.
Radical Islamist are slaughtering in the name of Allah. LAst time I looked, mass killings here Were done in the name of Allah: San Bernardino, Ft Hood, Orlando. Newtown, Columbine were pretty much established as mentally ill. McVeigh (Oklahoma City) was not someone bombing in the name of Jesus. FanuSanu52: If you want to believe there's a vast conspiracy hide Christianity inspired massacres (here or around the world) then we ALL know how much credence to put into your posts.
Just to put the record strait, Obama REFUSES to differentiate between Muslims. He has NEVER used the term "Radical Islamic Terrorists" (and to the best of my knowledge, no one in the administration is allowed to use that term. ) MAybe if he stated that not ALL Muslims are wonderful, tolerant, peace loving people, Americans wouldn't lump them all together. And maybe if we had had an upwelling of indignation by the (overwhelmingly moderate by numbers) community and condemnation of Radical Islamic Terrorism -- not the sporadic cries that Muslims are against violence -- people would not look at Muslims as a monolith of Radicals.
Radical Islamist are slaughtering in the name of Allah. LAst time I looked, mass killings here Were done in the name of Allah: San Bernardino, Ft Hood, Orlando. Newtown, Columbine were pretty much established as mentally ill. McVeigh (Oklahoma City) was not someone bombing in the name of Jesus. FanuSanu52: If you want to believe there's a vast conspiracy hide Christianity inspired massacres (here or around the world) then we ALL know how much credence to put into your posts.
Just to put the record strait, Obama REFUSES to differentiate between Muslims. He has NEVER used the term "Radical Islamic Terrorists" (and to the best of my knowledge, no one in the administration is allowed to use that term. ) MAybe if he stated that not ALL Muslims are wonderful, tolerant, peace loving people, Americans wouldn't lump them all together. And maybe if we had had an upwelling of indignation by the (overwhelmingly moderate by numbers) community and condemnation of Radical Islamic Terrorism -- not the sporadic cries that Muslims are against violence -- people would not look at Muslims as a monolith of Radicals.
Show your work or are you like Trump, who claimed, erroneously, that there were "thousands" of Muslims celebrating in NJ, as 911 unfolded? Also, it's Dearborn.
And, since no one ever said anything like that, we know how much credence to put into your verbal tantrums.
Lulz @ blaming Obama for Americans lumping Muslims together. Nice deflection, but that was happening long before most Americans knew what an Obama was.
BTW, Muslim leaders from around the world held a summit just a two months ago about extremism ... but keep spouting off the talking points you read on Breitbart, zombie.
"Yeah, no crazy ever killed in the name of Jesus/Christianity. (Just because you didn't hear about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen)."
Funny, but this sarcasm was posted under YOUR name. I guess rather than own up to it, you'd rather deflect by calling names. Must've the the captain of the debate team. Come on, respond by somemore name calling.
Funny, but this sarcasm was posted under YOUR name. I guess rather than own up to it, you'd rather deflect by calling names. Must've the the captain of the debate team. Come on, respond by somemore name calling.
Not thousands but there were definitely celebrations in the streets of Paterson. I have cop friends who had to stand and watch.
And the ones who celebrated should have been put down with a nice bullet to their head.
OR at the minimum, given a 1 way ticket out of the US.
Multi-culturalism at its best. Just because they live here and receive government entitlements doesn't mean that they like us.
I've read it a few times now and I still don't see any mention of conspiracies or massacres. Could you bold that? Thanks!
Relying on hearsay is not a strong debating tactic.
I don't know about RU#s, but experience has taught me to be skeptical of pretty much everything people say, be they friends or otherwise. The human ability to perceive, understand and communicate is awesome and fragile at the same time.
I'm even sometimes skeptical of what I observe with my own eyes, having seen how easy it is for our eyes to trick us. Visual cognition science is pretty fascinating and even a basic understanding shows how fraught with error our vision can be.
In the case of VKJ's cop friend, there are numerous opportunities for mistakes of observation, miscommunication, injection of biases, etc. Maybe it was exactly as the cop friend said. I have no reason to doubt that. But I have no reason to believe there was no mistake of observation, miscommunication or injection of bias either.
In this case, I tend to lean towards suspecting that the cop saw what he told VKJ he saw. But that's not nearly the same thing as being certain of it.
While video is usually best, when there is no video (and there are no videos showing any "celebrations" by Muslims in the US that I know of), I prefer to rely on professional reporting vs. hearsay. I've yet to read any professional report that said that anything more than a very few isolated instances of "celebrations" occurring - and even those are in doubt.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ew-jersey-muslims-celebrated-the-911-attacks/
"(Just because you didn't hear about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen)."
You don't hear about it because there must be a conspiracy by the media, et al to hide it. That's how I read it.
PS: And I appreciate that you didn't bring out the slandering, maybe contrary opinions can be discussed....and we didn't need to retire to a "free speech zone." I don't know about you, but I wasn't traumatized in the least.
You don't hear about it because there must be a conspiracy by the media, et al to hide it. That's how I read it.
PS: And I appreciate that you didn't bring out the slandering, maybe contrary opinions can be discussed....and we didn't need to retire to a "free speech zone." I don't know about you, but I wasn't traumatized in the least.
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