Fine by me…but where is the adoption or strategy to scale? Or will the US and China abandon their currencies followed by massive bankruptcies of Mastercard, Visa, PayPal, Fiserv, and the rest of the legacy fintech industry.
OT: Bitcoin, Altcoins, NFT's & All Things Crypto
- Thread starter bob-loblaw
- Start date
Did VISA go bankrupt when Mastercard and Discover brought their credit cards to market? There will be room for all but I would wager that Lightning will gain traction when the masses see the velocity and savings when using it. As in any capitalistic market, businesses will either adapt or lose share. Brokerage firms didn't go bankrupt when Schwab introduced discount commissions, they adapted.
Lol
All these things you note were replaced by better technology. Bitcoin has been around for 13 years and is rarely used for anything, other than speculation. And I apologize in advance for having a different opinion than yours.
don't be a sanctimonious dip............ you never have posted a single use-case for US adoption, and can't.
go invent your own internet if you don't like my posts...
Youre right. Did the internet replace newspapers in 1995? no, it took time. Did Amazon crush retail in 1999, no it took time. Even the iPhone took time to see mass adoption.
And you're right, it was used as a speulative asset for it's initial run. That is changing. As someone said earlier, let's revisit this in 5 years.
He has posted numerous use-cases many times in this thread. Your post makes no sense.
Getting testy for someone who didn’t address one of my previous posts because you didn’t like the first sentence. Are you going to address my comment on AI, why crypto based startups are at their lowest point since 2009, why none of these companies are hiring and why their VC dollars are drying up? Or are you just going to keep throwing a tantrum?
Lightning as it relates to Bitcoin requires everyone who uses it to put their money into a wallet where the money is unrecoverable if they lose it, or it breaks, or it’s hacked, or you fat finger a transaction to a wrong address, in addition to utilizing an unproven entity that will be in a trial by fire if it ever acquired the usage of a visa network. Like why in the actual hell would anyone want to jump through all of those hoops and live life on the edge like that to save on a service fee they don’t actually pay? That’s what we’re calling the new internet? Retailers do not hold the power to dictate how consumers pay, anyone who exclusively tells their customers they have to pay using lightning is going to find themselves out of business quickly. It’s best case scenario is one day Amazon lists it as a payment option next to the other half dozen ways to pay for something.
Your revisionist history of the internet, social media, mobile is simply not accurate, and by your standard any idea that is met with resistance is an inevitable game changer. None of those changes required putting your financial well being on shaky ground to perform actions that can already be easily executed, and none of them relied on MLM style word of mouth marketing to get off the ground. But I do agree, we’ll see who is right, we’re 14 years in and so far you’re not right. Bottom line is you say internet, I say Google Glass.
i asked him to name a US use case... not some 3rd world fake banking or "I dream of a world with borderless FX" response..
no one uses BTC in the US, except to buy drugs, memes and trade more BTC... I think my post makes plenty of sense..
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Herein lies the adoption issue with BTC. People want simplicity and security. Not to mention BTC’s volatility is a non-starter as a currency replacement. My bet is that ApplePay, GooglePay or some financial transactional model created by a Silicon Valley tech titan puts BTC/crypto out of its misery one day. And blockchain will live on for applications in need of ledgers.
Not sure anyone cares. I just read that Justin Bieber’s Bored Ape NFT that he bought in 2022 for $1.3 MILLION, is now worth $60 thousand.
Tantrum? you're legit just being a douche and cherry picking what you see fit to validate your own internal optinion. So allow to to answer your common sense question.
It doesnt take a MIT degree to figure out why your claim of VC money going to AI over crypto right now. First, you make a very bold exact claim. Please cite it. But without actually seeing said claim, look at the implosion in crypto in the last 16 mos. Look at all the projects that went to zero or were rug pulled. Safe to say more DD is being performed right now.
And again, you consistently feel the need to go back to "crypto" for any argument. I couldnt give two shits about crypto. I care about Bitcoin, which has seen continued layer 2 and layer 3 dev growth in the last year.
Your second paragraph is where you tryly show your lack of knowledge on a subject, but here i'll entertain. Lightning is an open source project allowing anything to plug into it. It used the bitcoin network as the rails of the transaction. I can walk into a retailer, open a wallet, tap it on the pos, and the retailer will see INSTANT US DOLLARS in their account w/o a 2.5% CC fee.
How is this possible? By using lightning network, the retailer can choose to accept any currency they want. If they want BTC, so be it, USD, doesnt matter. My digital wallet, lets say in this case Cash app would take either USD or $$ and present it to the POS. The retailer with a lightning enable POS would chose how they want to recieve their money. The $$ is converted to BTC in real time, sent over the bitcoin network to the recieving and converted to whatever currency is desired by the retailer, all in real time. And before you chirp again, this is still not YET widely available.
And if you think retailers dont have the power to dictate how consumers pay, youre pretty obtuse or simply choose to gloss over the last 3 years of society. Just as (what Im going to make a safe assumption here) your generation prefers to use cash now to save on the 2-3% CC surcharge being imposed by restaurants and retail, younger generations will opt for the same savings.
And again, it's not an overnight adoption. I've maintained gradually then suddenly here for some time now. Just as people using Apple Pay has seen a solid steady adoption over time, https://techjury.net/blog/apple-pay-statistics. Comparing everything to the growth and usage of AI is a bit of a farce. For all the Open AI "users", I'd love to see a percentage who bailed after not knowing how to properly prompt ChatGBT. Anecdotal sure, but comparing bitcoin adoption to something that just requires an email login is a bit of a reach IMO.
I have no revisionist history pal. I've lived it from a Commodore 64 to dialing into BBS system to IRC to Prodigy to AOL to ISDN to @Home, I've been along for the ride. Nothing that I'm talking about here requires putting your "financials" on shaky ground. Again, you choose to believe your own poorly researched narrative.
Oh the Google Glass. Not the worst Google failure IMO. Their first Android was an abomination and Google+ was a joke, What is also a joke is the time away from my family I wasted writing this post. I wish you the best.
So Lightning, from this reading, does look to have solid use case potential. Good point about the door being open because retailers are passing on CC fee's.
But what are the mechanics of it? And I ask this from the perspective of, why is it bullish? I assume someone has to be holding this bitcoin in order for these transactions to take place? Will BTC need to be kept out of the market, thus limiting supply, for this system to work? And if so is it enough to effect market price?
And what is the benefit to the BTC holder? Is there a staking yield? And who would pay for that if there is?
That is what is being reported but it’s only partially true in actuality. It’s not listed for sale but someone put in a bid at $60k. Rare Bored Apes are still selling for $3-400k, so not quite as terrible as reported.
The BTC that is on the lightning network is provided by individual lightning node operators. Lightning node wallets have their own private keys which the node operator has full custody of. Small fees are earned on transactions. Fees paid by sender are a fraction of what would be paid on the layer 1 main chain. Transactions are algorithmically routed to lowest fees & passing through the fewest payment channels to arrive at destination. It's not very profitable now for node operators until volume increases, but early Main-net miners was not that profitable either.
Ligning Network uses a series of smart contracts to relay transactions thru series of payment channels. Node operators cannot close their channels until they have completed transactions that have been routed through them.
Large companies like Cashapp, Strike et al do not set or determine the fees. The node operator sets their fees, but if they set fees higher than other node operators transactions will not be routed through their payment channels, so they earn nothing by having fees too high.
Higher demand for lightning payments would lock up more btc for lightning payments, so less would be available for sale. Not to mention wider payment adoption would surely drive general adoption as well. Also, factor that in with the upcoming halving next year, and potential ETF(s) getting approved, and incoming supply gets nuked.
Hopefully that answers your questions
Thanks, it does, but I wonder if the reward of these small transaction fee's makes it worth anyones while.
I mean, how much does it cost to create these systems?
In time it will. I'll prob set up a LN node in the coming months. A big part of poeple running nodes is people supporting the network, similar to the main btc chain
XRP scores a pretty big win in their SEC case. Alts up on the news- Sol 10%, Matic, 10%, etc.
www.coindesk.com
Ripple, Crypto Industry Score Partial Win in SEC Court Fight Over XRP
Institutional sales of the tokens violated federal securities laws, but programmatic sales did not, a court ruled.
Great day for the entire crypto market. BTC and ETH starting to rally as well. More positive court decisions to come!XRP scores a pretty big win in their SEC case. Alts up on the news- Sol 10%, Matic, 10%, etc.
Ripple, Crypto Industry Score Partial Win in SEC Court Fight Over XRP
Institutional sales of the tokens violated federal securities laws, but programmatic sales did not, a court ruled.
Not taking sides in this debate, but I do not think this is correct. Pre-internet identity theft (for example) was rare (less than 10k reported cases/year in the US). Last year there were 1.4M cases of identity theft reported to the FTC. Clearly using the internet for payment/storage of personal information has the potential to put ones "financial well being on shaky ground", no?
Except its not a reach.
You wont get into a car accident if you dont get into a car. Or in a plane crash if you never fly.
The reality is stupidty is the primary cause of put ones "financial well being on shaky ground". Stupidity in
banking on public wifi (I know countless people who do this)
Not enabling 2FA
Using weak passwords
Using the same passwords for multiple accounts
Not locking your phone or laptop
Buying gift cards for someone on the phone
I could go on, but I'd say any of these have an infinitly higher probability of putting ones "financial well being on shaky ground" than someone transacting on the Lightning Network
The internet is not specifically a financial instrument. It is one of the near infinite actions that can be done online, but a user if they choose can simply not bank online. The reason they do is because convenience, and available recourse should something go wrong. Crypto or bitcoin is not convenient and does not have a recourse if something goes wrong.
The main talking point here is basically comparing crypto fud to early internet, mobile, and social media fud… like I don’t know what to tell you other than you are making something up in your head, I lived through all of those changes as well and once it broke through to mainstream awareness the adoption rate skyrocketed. I’m sure there were some haters like everything else in life, but the adoption rates are the mark of what makes a piece of technology great and bitcoin’s adoption (like real adoption, not a bunch of degenerates playing roulette on Binance) is minimal at best, and we are years past the mainstream breakthrough.
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Not staked with Coinbase so this doesn't impact me, but they just sent out an email to residents of NJ, Califnornia, South Caronlina and Wisconsin...
|
On June 6, the New Jersey Bureau of Securities issued a preliminary cease and desist order concerning aspects of Coinbase’s staking services. We strongly disagree with the Bureau’s view of Coinbase’s staking services under New Jersey securities law. The order is not a final adjudication of the legal issues. But Coinbase is committed to compliance and will be abiding by the terms of the order even while we vigorously defend our staking services for New Jersey customers like you. |
Staking is fundamental to the crypto industry. You can read more about why we stand by staking here. In the meantime, as proceedings move forward in New Jersey about our staking services, we want to share how you may be impacted, what you can expect next, and what you can do to make your voice heard. |
How you may be impacted |
Unfortunately, the Bureau is requiring us to limit your access to ongoing Coinbase staking services, and Coinbase has no ability to challenge that restriction immediately. This means that once Coinbase has finished building the technical implementation needed, you won’t be able to stake any additional assets. |
What you can expect next |
|
We are continuing to engage with the Bureau regarding its order, and will provide updates regarding any additional changes to staking eligibility in the Help Center. |
Make your voice heard |
In the past few months, crypto advocates have made huge strides in getting legislators, policymakers, and regulators to push for meaningful discussions about crypto policy. Your feedback matters now more than ever. |
Join over 48,000 crypto investors, builders, and advocates in updating the system and become a Stand with Crypto advocate today to show your support and make your voice heard. |
Finally, as a reminder, the safety of customers' assets is our top priority. As always, all your assets are safe and remain in your control. For the latest on Coinbase’s staking program, please visit our Help Center at any time. |
Thank you, |
The Coinbase Team |
I don't know anyone who uses crypto for anything other than speculation and/or dark web purchases.
This is 13 years after Bitcoin was first released...
This is 13 years after Bitcoin was first released...
Isn’t this the doc that is famous for spreading COVID misinformation?
This reply makes me laugh. How much "misinformation" or "malinformation" proved to be information that was censured by media, and tech in coordination with the govt. So yeah....
More important than that is the fact that the largest bank in the country decided to debank someone for reasons that on the surface appear to be JPM not agreeing with a customers opinion. If you cant see that is a problem, I guess there really is... nothing to see here for you.
Was it really censured since anyone who wants to find the information, can simply go find it? The fact that you’re here talking about it says it’s not censured.
Assuming the cover story checks out, that he was shut down by Chase because of his Vax views and he wasn’t participating in any shady financial activity. This guy will open up a new bank account. He didn’t lose anything. Meanwhile, I can link to endless supposedly tech savvy individuals who have had their private keys lost, hacked, stolen, robbed, seized, etc. this guy got off easy in comparison to a bitcoin breakdown.
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Please endless link for me.
Just lilke the other guy, just keep dismissing this as no big deal. The simple fact is that the largest bank de-banked a client for what most likely is either pressure from the govt or merely b/c they disagree with his view points. The fact that those are not raising a red flag in your eyes is a head scratcher. Esp., given everything that has gone on in the world the last 3 years.
On a plane, I’ll share some later.
So a guy who has made a living on challenging authority and in all likelihood monetizing his views on Covid to prey on gullible conspiracy theorists, is claiming Chase shut down his bank account. According to his claim, he has presently lost $0 as a result of this grave injustice. According to his Wikipedia, he had to settle $2.6m because he sold tanning beds that supposedly reduced cancer without any credible logic to backup the claim. Obviously there is no other choice here but to take his post as a shot fired on freedom and self custody all of our wealth.
This seems like a pretty measured take from a legitimate source.
"As more adoption of Bitcoin happens and demand increases, TD Cowen predicts, in the short term, an upside scenario where the price of BTC appreciates 127% to around just above it's all time high at $70,000. But if regulators continue cracking down on the asset class, they predict a downside scenario of another crash back to $15,000."
"As more adoption of Bitcoin happens and demand increases, TD Cowen predicts, in the short term, an upside scenario where the price of BTC appreciates 127% to around just above it's all time high at $70,000. But if regulators continue cracking down on the asset class, they predict a downside scenario of another crash back to $15,000."
May be it’s just me, but pretty sure one of the top banks in the world isn’t going to arbitrarily seize accounts without a court order, legal matter pending, or AML issue. Laughable that people pay attention to nonsensical social media BS.
What's laughable is you 🤡 still don't believe its happening despite the CEO resigning over the issue and internal emails showed that Coutts did it for political reasons.
Keep your head in the sand!
NatWest CEO resigns after 'serious error' in Farage fiasco
NatWest CEO Alison Rose stepped down with immediate effect on Wednesday after she admitted to a "serious error of judgment" in discussing former Brexit party leader Nigel Farage's relationship with the bank with a BBC journalist.
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