OT: Bitcoins / Other Crypto Currencies for Dummies
- Thread starter RutgersMO
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A publicly traded company named Long Island Iced Tea Corp. (LTEA) -- which, as the moniker implies, is based on Long Island and makes iced tea -- is changing its name to Long Blockchain Corp. and wants to buy some firms in the cryptocurrency business-------- but, will still mainly just make ice tea........
The stock surged nearly 200% on the news.
Long Island Iced Tea added that it "does not have an agreement with any of these entities for a transaction and there is no assurance that a definitive agreement with these, or any other entity, will be entered into or ultimately consummated."
In other words, Long Island Iced Tea Corp. hopes to one day become a crypto powerhouse.
But for now, it remains a tiny beverage company based in Farmingdale that reported total sales of just $1.6 million in its latest quarter and whose stock was down more than 40% this year before it decided to become a blockchain player.
not a joke........ this actually happened last week............... good luck with your pets.com.coin.blockchain.bs.
The stock surged nearly 200% on the news.
Long Island Iced Tea added that it "does not have an agreement with any of these entities for a transaction and there is no assurance that a definitive agreement with these, or any other entity, will be entered into or ultimately consummated."
In other words, Long Island Iced Tea Corp. hopes to one day become a crypto powerhouse.
But for now, it remains a tiny beverage company based in Farmingdale that reported total sales of just $1.6 million in its latest quarter and whose stock was down more than 40% this year before it decided to become a blockchain player.
not a joke........ this actually happened last week............... good luck with your pets.com.coin.blockchain.bs.
What happens if the govt decides its tired of the tax dodgers and bans crypto?
Or if they market their own version?
Or if Visa/MasterCard develops their own and leverage their brand to monopolize market share?
All very plausible scenarios, IMO.
Now if you're day trading these things, well okay. But call me skeptical on the actual use/value of these things.
At least you can give a pretty girl tulips.
Banning crypto would be very difficult. Don't forget that this is a world wide thing so all governments around the globe would have to ban it. Very unlikely as many large countries are pro-crypto. The more likely scenario is that the US govt regulates and taxes. They are already taxing it anyway or at least trying. Why ban it when you can make money from it?
What do you think is more likely, Visa/Mastercard creating their own crypto or partnering with one of the existing cryptos?
Exactly. On both points.
Proponents say it cuts out the middleman.
Well, I don't think the govt is ok being cut out.
And if Visa/MasterCard or the govt decides to partner with Brand-X Coin, I see a whole lot of losers for a handful (one?) of winners.
Don't get me wrong, y'all are probably killing it right now and right on -- maybe you can fund the next Hale Center upgrade.
But I just don't see a decided advantage of using crypto over current alternatives unless you're buying hookers and blow.
That's probably what will happen once the bubble bursts one way or another, which is why I would recommend choosing a few cryptocurrencies (that have potential to survive the crash) rather than putting all your eggs into one. Based on what I've been reading on facebook pages, it seems like a lot of people getting into cryptos are new to investing and are choosing cryptos like they're choosing a sports team where they're going all in on one and denouncing all the others. This isn't a winning strategy. Most people who didn't diversify during the tech bubble came out losers, while people who did probably lost money on most of their investments but more then made up for it if one of their investments was Amazon, Apple, etc.
Exactly, the US gov will tax it and reg it. They did it with alcohol and marijuana. For as much as they would like to control it like with FACTA and RBT not being appealed and implemented. You can be count on the US gov over reaching at every chance it gets.
The Feds are already looking into this. Also, the banks are moving it too, BofA specifically.
The technology has value, the cryptocurrency as a long term store of wealth and used for barter, yet to be determined.
Just saw this thread, crypto has fascinated me for a while, and in my opinion it's not going away. I have some very smart friends, decided to listen to them, and it's paid off incredibly.
My best investments were Bitcoin in July 2012 at $9, Ethereum about a year ago at $8, and Ripple this summer at $0.17. Within the last couple months I've gotten into a ton more alt coins; Iota and Cardano are my biggest plays.
I don't bother attempting to predict this stuff, but for what it's worth my smart friends believe the market will stabilize in a couple years. They think Bitcoin will be at around $150-200K and Ripple at around $50-100.
My best investments were Bitcoin in July 2012 at $9, Ethereum about a year ago at $8, and Ripple this summer at $0.17. Within the last couple months I've gotten into a ton more alt coins; Iota and Cardano are my biggest plays.
I don't bother attempting to predict this stuff, but for what it's worth my smart friends believe the market will stabilize in a couple years. They think Bitcoin will be at around $150-200K and Ripple at around $50-100.
i signed up on coinbase and bought a bit of bitcoin. Next, I want to buy some of the alt coins not listed on Coinbase. It seems that most of the altcoin exhanges are not accepting new registrations. I have been told that binance is one of the best.
Anyone here who has experience---thoughts on coin exchanges?
Anyone here who has experience---thoughts on coin exchanges?
I use Binance too. I'm guessing new registrations will be open again soon, they're probably just overloaded now with so many new people getting into it. Don't use bitcoin though as your middleman between cash and altcoins--the fees are higher and transfer times are longer. Use litecoin or ethereum. Also, you can get around the fees by transferring to GDAX and then from GDAX to Binance or wherever else.
Also if anyone is truly interested, I'm happy to chat. I've been around crypto since mining in my Rockoff Hall apartment in 2009 and created two crypto currencies while getting my PhD at Rutgers-- VeriCoin and Verium. Been around the block for a long time and happy to share my experiences. Planning on making a major crypto-related donation to Rutgers to endow something pretty cool over the next year or two.
Wow that's awesome. I had an apartment in Rockoff in 2009 as well, probably years before I even heard of cryptocurrency. Do you think a hardware wallet or a paper wallet is easier for the average person to use?
Thanks pnosker.
What is the conversation like amongst your peers in regard to Governments feeling threaten by the competition that you bring to the established monetary system. It would appear that Blockchain cannot be stopped, but can a government cartel that would include the Goldman Sachs of the world create a parallel Blockchain to crush the completion. Or, control it using their powers of regulation, taxation, and investigation and ultimately imprisonment to those that don’t adhere to their rules.
Perhaps these scenarios are just too far fetched to even be worthy of discussion.
Thanks pnosker for adding to the discussion.
A question I have that you might be able to answer---since you actually started two coins---
There seems to be an increasing number of these alt coins popping up everywhere. What is the long term goal of these alt coin developers? 20 years from now (and beyond) do you think that places will start accepting all of these different coins as currency? OR is the hope that your coins will become the standard for digital currency?
Hopefully that question makes sense to you, I apologize for my ignorance.
A question I have that you might be able to answer---since you actually started two coins---
There seems to be an increasing number of these alt coins popping up everywhere. What is the long term goal of these alt coin developers? 20 years from now (and beyond) do you think that places will start accepting all of these different coins as currency? OR is the hope that your coins will become the standard for digital currency?
Hopefully that question makes sense to you, I apologize for my ignorance.
I keep the majority of my coins on a Trezor device. I have two with the same seed key just to be extra safe. I think hardware wallets (trezor and ledger at least) are fairly easy to use and are a lot simpler than paper.
Government regulation is certainly a major overhang, but as you said, what can they really do about a decentralized ledger. They can attack the choke points between conversion between their supported fiat currency and the cryptocurrency by outlawing transactions, but you see underground networks open up in countries with controls (China, Russia at prior times). In Zimbabwe and Venezuela, you see massive underground transactions peer-to-peer using phone wallets and connections being made using Whatsapp, Telegram, LocalBitcoins.com, etc.
I don't see Goldman Sachs trying to stop cryptocurrency, at least right now. They're one of the few banks that's allowing clients to trade the CME and CBOE bitcoin futures and my interactions with my contacts there (they're my hedge fund's prime broker) suggest that they're going pretty heavy into cryptocurrency this year. There's some major chance the US starts limiting cryptocurrency but I think it's unlikely in the next couple of years and will probably start with firmer tax controls.
Ever since Bitcoin was created there have been altcoins. First, starting with Namecoin which tried to pioneer a new URL address system (think instead of www.rivals.com, www.rivals.nmc or something) that is decentralized. Then Tenebrix, Fairbrix, Litecoin, etc. Many of them, including me and my RU colleague and VeriCoin/Verium co-creator, Doug Pike, created things we thought were improvements in some way. For example, we created VeriCoin to be eco-friendly (no mining) back in 2014 because we saw Bitcoin's energy consumption becoming an issue one day. We also saw the potential congestion in the future so VeriCoin allows for 10x the throughput as Bitcoin does. I think ultimately, we saw it as an interesting experiment with the end goal being a more currency-like cryptocurrency where you could actually use it to buy something with low value such as a coffee. Bitcoin is too congested to do this right now (though improvements are coming very soon) and serves more of a "gold" like purpose with the high fees and slow transaction times being suited only really for high value transfer such as gold. So yes, we're working with new payment processors and the like to try to become more of a standard. But honestly, who knows where things are in 20 years. The only thing I can do is make sure I own what I think the most likely victors are, and to work on what I think is better than the rest.
exactly (not CME specifically)........ but the ones making money are the early adopters (who have managed to wade into a cash cow) and the exchanges, wallets and processors........ who are making absurd amounts of money with the hysteria.......
again, blockchain technology is paradigm changing.... crypto may have a place... but it's just hysteria at the moment.... the fees associated with getting, trading, exchanging... and (god forbid) actually using cyrpto to buy something at the moment are absurd... and all that assumes you can actually do any of those things without the various systems going down or being so slow/delayed you end up losing money.........
100% real people are making real money............ but, it's a narrow window, wild west mentality.... that inevitably either collapses.. or falls under gov't control...
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I think they all do, but ripple specifically has an enormous supply and is probably quite overvalued in comparison to Bitcoin.
As for others, I think Litecoin and Ethereum will always have a spot at the table. The rest are a true gamble. Bitcoin Cash/Bcash will probably always be around, too, because there are enough Bitcoin detractors.
GS is targeting June for their crypto desk but already has futures trading. NYSE also filed for several crypto leveraged ETFs to start this year. Now that will be crazy.
No it wasn't. I don't remember a crypto ad, but that's pretty neat. I plan on running a billboard for VeriCoin sometime this year in Manhattan.
Pnosker- very cool info and glad we have a crypto guru on the board. Couple of questions... What are your thought on the long term value of bitcoin? The transaction time seems to be slow compared to other crypto currencies and will is a better mouse trap just waiting to be used? What are your top 5 long term cryptos?
Yeah I forgot what the coin was called. I tried to look it up but there wasn’t much info on it.
What kind of year do you think BTC has?
Generally speaking, why are anonymous computer programmers controlling currency a better alternative to anonymous bankers controlling currency?
you just don't understand technology and/or the future and/or y'know, stuff.
I can see a valuation near the gold market cap + us and eur m1/m2 blended cap... Somewhere between $300k-1.5m per BTC. That's a few years out at the least. Short term, I can see $30k within a year and $100k within three.
People don't seem to realize there's a lot going on in the background. Bitcoin has a lot of new tech going for it which will make lesser transactions that don't require the same level of security fast and cheap.
I own BTC, VRC, VRM, ETH, and LTC in bulk. I own small bits of some others too.
Controlling implies continued control. The code was created in 2009 and is locked. There can be small subtle changes, but they aren't done by the creator, it's done by consensus of the public miners and developers. The main deal is that there is a prespecified inflation and dilution rate and it's been followed since day 0. Government monetary policy doesn't work that way.
Thanks for the response.
How do other (non-Bitcoin) cryptocurrencies play into that? Will the various cryptocurrencies act sort of like various countries’ currencies in that some are more valuable than others, but can be traded for one another, with the strongest (least volatile) being the “reserve currency”?
While I am a proponent of Blockchain, I am still skeptical about cryptocurrencies. Your commentary here has been and will be helpful to educate skeptics like myself to have a better understanding of the potential role of cryptocurrencies in the future.
I think a lot of these questions don't yet have answers. There hasn't been an outright leader (bitcoin has been dominant, though) that's the clear best solution. Ultimately, I see one to a few "reserve" currencies that are tied strongly to some other resource (Bitcoin is tied to energy cost, for example) and several transactional currencies (such as what we're trying to do with VeriCoin, or Litecoin) in addition to some smart contract systems (Ethereum, etc.).
There are some obvious real benefits with blockchain technology-- in that everyone can see what's going on so there is high accountability. For smart contracts, it allows you to never have any violated contracts without penalty (reduces cost of enforcement). Payments become irreversible so no more credit card buy/report fraud scams. The potential is huge, but the scaling needs to be tuned for real-life use first and it needs to be taken more seriously by governments and businesses.
I will throw this at @pnosker or any of the accountants out therre. I have been trying to do some research around the cryptos and taxes. From I can see is that IRS does not view it as a currency but as a property. So if you bought some and sell it down the road you would handle it as you would a stock investment. But what do you do in the situation of mining? Do you claim mining as income or you just claim taxes when you sell it? There does not seem to be a definitive answer out there.
Mining is taxed as usual income (you can write off mining equipment and energy) with profits taxed as the coins are mined. You pay the additional price change difference in taxes if you have gains post-mining income.
