ADVERTISEMENT

OT: Electric vehicles

This has been true of certain higher end cars for decades. People with good relationships with dealers purchase the car at or near MSRP, hold it a month or two, then resell it for thousands, even in some cases, hundreds of thousands, more. All because supply was carefully and intentionally limited.

I very much want to get a 911 GT3 RS. Either a new one (not out yet) or one from the last generation, used. But I don’t have a good enough relationship with a dealer to get one anywhere near MSRP. I probably couldn’t even get one new for $50K over MSRP. The only way I could possibly get a new one is by paying $100K - $200K over MSRP, and it would probably be from a flipper. I could get a used one, but even those will sell for way, way over the original MSRP.

But that’s mostly because of limited production. Intentional low supply.

Whereas now, due to worsening supply chain issues, it’s become true for even ordinary cars like Teslas and other EVs, and ICE Trucks/SUVs - basically any cars that are in high demand. It’s a seller’s market and flipping cars has become like scalping tickets - everyone can do it.

On top of that, a report came out last week (I might have posted it here), that basically says that new car reliability has nosedived, across the board, since 2020. So people are paying lots more to get a worse product.

It’s a shitty time to buy a car.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: goru1869
Best of both worlds also = worst of both worlds.
It depends on your circumstances. For my specific needs it is the best of both worlds. As for maintenance: Volvo provides 3 years full maintenance and a 4 year warranty. I also got 4 years of " consumables" wipers, brakes, rotars etc. After 4 years hopefully there will be reasonably priced EVs that can go 500+ miles on a charge. Also hopefully by then the charging infrastructure will be in better shape then it is now. The full 7500 tax credit eliminated most of the price differential between the PHEV and regular version of the same car.
 
Tesla should be printing best ever ever month and every quarter because they are starting at such a low number. Also why this Q is such a disappointment, but understandable given all the circumstances.
The Shanghai lockdown not only crippled Shanghai production, but much of the tooling needed for the Berlin and Austin ramp was stuck, sitting in the Shanghai port.

Shanghai and Berlin will both be halting production this month for a few weeks for retooling, expansion, and adding shifts. Another positive sign. Tesla would not be pausing production if the supply chain was not set up to support expansion.
 
The Shanghai lockdown not only crippled Shanghai production, but much of the tooling needed for the Berlin and Austin ramp was stuck, sitting in the Shanghai port.

Shanghai and Berlin will both be halting production this month for a few weeks for retooling, expansion, and adding shifts. Another positive sign. Tesla would not be pausing production if the supply chain was not set up to support expansion.
It’s across the industry. Tesla is in the same boat as the legacy auto makers. Need to unlock the part shortage to see what’s what. It only took 12 months for my ID 4 to be deliver.
 
It’s across the industry. Tesla is in the same boat as the legacy auto makers. Need to unlock the part shortage to see what’s what. It only took 12 months for my ID 4 to be deliver.
Have you been driving the ID4, and sorry if I missed is (or SIAP was the friendly acronym says), how is the driving experience?
 
This seems wise. Although I would think most first responder organizations are, by now, already doing training for the differences between handling EV and ICE accidents.

 
Have you been driving the ID4, and sorry if I missed is (or SIAP was the friendly acronym says), how is the driving experience?
Picking it up Saturday. It’s for my daughter but will drive it until she gets her license. I test drove it once. It’s more of a practical car than sporty.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Knight Shift
This seems wise. Although I would think most first responder organizations are, by now, already doing training for the differences between handling EV and ICE accidents.

Don't be so sure.
And it is always helpful to have the perspective of the manufacturer/source. Such as training with NJTransit on train fires, or the gas company on large gas leaks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mildone
Picking it up Saturday. It’s for my daughter but will drive it until she gets her license. I test drove it once. It’s more of a practical car than sporty.
Seems to me that the best use-cases for EVs are for practicality over sportiness. At least until such time as manufacturers decide to completely stop making non-EVs.

The bigger sports car makers are working hard to leverage carbon neutral synthetic fuels so as to preserve the whole sports car experience, with the sounds and gears and so on. No idea if this will pan out, but I sure hope it does.

Speaking of which, one of the F1 drivers who has been, somewhat ironically, preaching sustainability as of late, drove his recently purchased 1992-era Williams F1 car during the pre-race at Silverstone this past Sunday, using carbon-neutral synthetic fuel instead of gas. That car is from the V10 days of F1. It ran great and sounded awesome. So proofs of concept are there, but making it workable for the masses is a whole 'nother thing.
 
Don't be so sure.
And it is always helpful to have the perspective of the manufacturer/source. Such as training with NJTransit on train fires, or the gas company on large gas leaks.
Can't hurt to have as much training as possible. Even with hybrids, let alone EVs, the possibility of nasty electric shock is always present after an accident.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Knight Shift
Speaking of Rivian, this is quite a favorable review for the R1S, for the most part:

Nice looking vehicle being held back by a couple of quirks (of course, in my opinion):

"The wide light bar and big oval eyes let onlookers know this is something new and different." IMO, those "eyes" would look so much better if they were rotated 90 degrees.

And this is just stupid. It may be the equivalent of Tesla's yoke:

"For starters, there’s no CarPlay or Android Auto to be found. Rivian representatives told me the company doesn’t want to cede any ground to third-party engineering, preferring to maintain control over every aspect of the user experience."

Those two are deal killers for me. Your (EV) mileage may vary.
 
Nice looking vehicle being held back by a couple of quirks (of course, in my opinion):

"The wide light bar and big oval eyes let onlookers know this is something new and different." IMO, those "eyes" would look so much better if they were rotated 90 degrees.

And this is just stupid. It may be the equivalent of Tesla's yoke:

"For starters, there’s no CarPlay or Android Auto to be found. Rivian representatives told me the company doesn’t want to cede any ground to third-party engineering, preferring to maintain control over every aspect of the user experience."

Those two are deal killers for me. Your (EV) mileage may vary.
While I think the lack of AA and CP is dumb, it‘s not really dumb at nearly the same level as a yoke on road-going vehicles. In the first case, it’s dumb from a marketing standpoint and it’s perhaps inconvenient to potential customers.

In the case of the yoke, it‘s dangerous in tight cornering, a less safe design from an engineering standpoint.
 
  • Like
Reactions: robcac26
While I think the lack of AA and CP is dumb, it‘s not really dumb at nearly the same level as a yoke on road-going vehicles. In the first case, it’s dumb from a marketing standpoint and it’s perhaps inconvenient to potential customers.

In the case of the yoke, it‘s dangerous in tight cornering, a less safe design from an engineering standpoint.
As I typed my post, I thought you would turn this into the yoke is worse discussion. 😜 But I have to admit, I agree with you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mildone
I agree with this idea. But the EV purists will smite thee with extreme anger.

Such a weird take from that crew. It's clear the world needs phevs right now, especially when you consider uses like carrying/towing heavy loads, RVs, extreme weather, etc. Sdw illustrates a perfect example of how they can be the best all around option.
 
As I typed my post, I thought you would turn this into the yoke is worse discussion. 😜 But I have to admit, I agree with you.
I confess that any mention of a yoke in road cars does trigger me rather easily. 😀

At least I kept my rant short.
 
Such a weird take from that crew. It's clear the world needs phevs right now, especially when you consider uses like carrying/towing heavy loads, RVs, extreme weather, etc. Sdw illustrates a perfect example of how they can be the best all around option.
The moderate answer is most often the correct answer and hybrids are a moderate answer, IMO.

OTOH, I often like to say "everything in moderation, including moderation". So many sayings... who has time to be consistent? 😀
 
  • Like
Reactions: fsg2
292151688_5406074539449720_2040467275935169031_n.jpg
 
Question for the EV owners (none Tesla). Did you purchase a J1172 adapter so you can use Tesla charging station?
 
Question for the EV owners (none Tesla). Did you purchase a J1172 adapter so you can use Tesla charging station?
You're a little confused.
Tesla owners have the J1172 adapter so they can use non Tesla chargers.
Currently in the US, only Tesla owners can use Tesla chargers.
 
You're a little confused.
Tesla owners have the J1172 adapter so they can use non Tesla chargers.
Currently in the US, only Tesla owners can use Tesla chargers.
I must be. Was watching YouTube and ID4 owners are using Tesla chargers with a J1172 adapter. Maybe it was only overseas.
 
hearing Ford will lose the Federal tax incentive by Q3 or Q4. Will have to reconsider the F150 Lighting order.
 
hearing Ford will lose the Federal tax incentive by Q3 or Q4. Will have to reconsider the F150 Lighting order.
You got a link for that? NVM (that's "Never mind"😁), here it is.

What a stupid law. They should limit it to zero emissions EVs.

Not sure about the accuracy of this comment under the linked post below:

"

devroot

July 7, 2022 at 11:12 AM

If Ford hits the 200K trigger this quarter, the full value of the credit is still available until December 31st, 2022. Which is exactly what Jim Farley said was going to happen. This is hardly unexpected.
And to be clear here, GM and Tesla vehicles don’t qualify for any level of tax credit. Toyota’s credit gets cut in half on October 1st, and Ford’s will be cut in half on January 1st, 2023, assuming that they hit 200K this quarter. There’s a chance it may slip to Q4, in which case the full value of the credit is still available in Q1 of 2023. Which is inline with what Jim Farley said."


 
You got a link for that? NVM (that's "Never mind"😁), here it is.

What a stupid law. They should limit it to zero emissions EVs.

Not sure about the accuracy of this comment under the linked post below:

"

devroot

July 7, 2022 at 11:12 AM

If Ford hits the 200K trigger this quarter, the full value of the credit is still available until December 31st, 2022. Which is exactly what Jim Farley said was going to happen. This is hardly unexpected.
And to be clear here, GM and Tesla vehicles don’t qualify for any level of tax credit. Toyota’s credit gets cut in half on October 1st, and Ford’s will be cut in half on January 1st, 2023, assuming that they hit 200K this quarter. There’s a chance it may slip to Q4, in which case the full value of the credit is still available in Q1 of 2023. Which is inline with what Jim Farley said."


Here you go, it does not expire the moment when 200,000 is hit,but the second quarter AFTER the quarter in which a particular manufacturer reaches a total of 200,000 vehicles:

"
The federal tax credit is phased out over time beginning the second quarter AFTER the quarter in which a manufacturer reaches a total of 200,000 BEV or PHEV vehicles sold since 2010. Here is how the phase out works:







  • The full amount of the EV qualifying tax credit is in place DURING the entire calendar quarter in which 200,000 EVs are sold by a manufacturer, AND through the subsequent quarter.
  • Then the tax credit amount is reduced by 50% for the next 2 quarters.
  • The credit is reduced again to 25% of the original amount for the subsequent 2 quarters.
  • At that point the credit expires completely."
This thread could use a Minister of Disinformation.

 
  • Like
Reactions: LBusDoor90
You got a link for that? NVM (that's "Never mind"😁), here it is.

What a stupid law. They should limit it to zero emissions EVs.

Not sure about the accuracy of this comment under the linked post below:

"

devroot

July 7, 2022 at 11:12 AM

If Ford hits the 200K trigger this quarter, the full value of the credit is still available until December 31st, 2022. Which is exactly what Jim Farley said was going to happen. This is hardly unexpected.
And to be clear here, GM and Tesla vehicles don’t qualify for any level of tax credit. Toyota’s credit gets cut in half on October 1st, and Ford’s will be cut in half on January 1st, 2023, assuming that they hit 200K this quarter. There’s a chance it may slip to Q4, in which case the full value of the credit is still available in Q1 of 2023. Which is inline with what Jim Farley said."


Actually, NM is never mind. Still much to learn 😀.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Knight Shift
Here you go, it does not expire the moment when 200,000 is hit,but the second quarter AFTER the quarter in which a particular manufacturer reaches a total of 200,000 vehicles:

"
The federal tax credit is phased out over time beginning the second quarter AFTER the quarter in which a manufacturer reaches a total of 200,000 BEV or PHEV vehicles sold since 2010. Here is how the phase out works:







  • The full amount of the EV qualifying tax credit is in place DURING the entire calendar quarter in which 200,000 EVs are sold by a manufacturer, AND through the subsequent quarter.
  • Then the tax credit amount is reduced by 50% for the next 2 quarters.
  • The credit is reduced again to 25% of the original amount for the subsequent 2 quarters.
  • At that point the credit expires completely."
This thread could use a Minister of Disinformation.

That phase out resulted in a mad rush by Tesla manufacturing and centers for Model 3s to be delivered before the phase out began. Hopefully, Ford will up their production/delivery game the same way to reward the loyalty and patience of those hanging in there for their first authentic EV effort.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Knight Shift
I must be. Was watching YouTube and ID4 owners are using Tesla chargers with a J1172 adapter. Maybe it was only overseas.
Just to be clear, high speed DC fast charging on a Tesla supercharger is only available for Teslas in N America. No adapters exist in N America for non Teslas for high speed charging.

Non Teslas can use Tesla destination chargers (level 2) with the proper adapter. Level 2 chargers are basically like charging at your house.

This may help

https://insideevs.com/news/466928/charging-non-tesla-on-tesla-charging-stations/amp/
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT