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OT: Electric vehicles

mildone said:
As the article basically says, I wouldn’t single out Tesla for having the most autopilot crashes since they have lots more miles travelled than the other manufacturers. But these crashes just reinforce, for me, the stupidity of relying on software to operate cars absent V2V and V2I.

I hate the idea that there are cars out there on the road with me are using these semi automated systems. I hope states start banning it.
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The issue here remains the tendency of people (even those we would all consider rational) to "OK" rapidly through the "Terms of Use" screens to start off the enabling of the autopilot feature. It pretty much warns you it will have the capabilities of an overly-cautious 16 yo driver so that you need to be ready on a moment's notice to take over and that it will be quick to turn the driving back over to you if it gets remotely confused. It has been a great, very rarely-used feature for me as a back up of sorts when crossing southern NJ late at night to go from Long Beach Island to the other side of the state when an overly cautious kid driver is likely better than I might be even though I'm fully alert in my opinion but tired.
In the end, human choices are as much (if not more) a part of the problem with this technology's employment and that weak link factor leads me to agree with you more and more with each autopilot-related accident. (...and they need to change the name from "autopilot" to "driver assist"; it's part of the human problem)
 
LBusDoor90 said:
The issue here remains the tendency of people (even those we would all consider rational) to "OK" rapidly through the "Terms of Use" screens to start off the enabling of the autopilot feature. It pretty much warns you it will have the capabilities of an overly-cautious 16 yo driver so that you need to be ready on a moment's notice to take over and that it will be quick to turn the driving back over to you if it gets remotely confused. It has been a great, very rarely-used feature for me as a back up of sorts when crossing southern NJ late at night to go from Long Beach Island to the other side of the state when an overly cautious kid driver is likely better than I might be even though I'm fully alert in my opinion but tired.
In the end, human choices are as much (if not more) a part of the problem with this technology's employment and that weak link factor leads me to agree with you more and more with each autopilot-related accident. (...and they need to change the name from "autopilot" to "driver assist"; it's part of the human problem)
Click to expand...
Fully agreed. Marketing these systems as self driving was the first mistake. They shouldn't be used that way...ever.
 
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robcac26 said:
How many times does this need to be debunked in this thread for you? The batteries last longer than most people keep their cars, and on an ICE you would have to pay thousands to have an engine or transmission replaced on top of the thousands you would have already spent over the years on maintenance and repairs.

I also don't understand why you think caring about the environment is bad. Whether or not EVs actually are good for the environment is another debate I'm not too well-versed in, but your stance isn't that they don't benefit the environment, your stance apparently is that caring about the environment is shameful for some reason. Also, the reason I even mentioned the environment was to try to explain to you that it isn't the reason people are buying EVs, but I guess that was too intricate of a post for you to comprehend.
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I can completely understand the nostalgic attachment to ICE vehicles. But, like any other technology, the ICE was destined to be replaced. EVs will be no different. Advancing technology for the greater good should be celebrated.

What is truly pathetic is the hostile, aggressive attitude against EV adoption. People who intentionally modify their pick-ups to "coal-roll", or parking in an EV charging spot to prevent someone from charging, or saying "only real men drive ICE vehicles" points to some other deep seeded issues. Perhaps never being able to satisfy a woman. Regardless, a person who needs to proclaim their manhood usually isn't much of a man.
 
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LBusDoor90 said:
The issue here remains the tendency of people (even those we would all consider rational) to "OK" rapidly through the "Terms of Use" screens to start off the enabling of the autopilot feature. It pretty much warns you it will have the capabilities of an overly-cautious 16 yo driver so that you need to be ready on a moment's notice to take over and that it will be quick to turn the driving back over to you if it gets remotely confused. It has been a great, very rarely-used feature for me as a back up of sorts when crossing southern NJ late at night to go from Long Beach Island to the other side of the state when an overly cautious kid driver is likely better than I might be even though I'm fully alert in my opinion but tired.
In the end, human choices are as much (if not more) a part of the problem with this technology's employment and that weak link factor leads me to agree with you more and more with each autopilot-related accident. (...and they need to change the name from "autopilot" to "driver assist"; it's part of the human problem)
Click to expand...
Let's hypothetically say ADAS systems could reduce the number of accidents and fatalities by 90%. The unfortunate 10% would still sue, while the 90% would be oblivious that their lives were saved. It seems to be a lose-lose for the developers. I give all of them credit for continuing forward, not only for the challenge autonomous driving poses, but for the mountains of litigation forthcoming.
 
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BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap said:
I can completely understand the nostalgic attachment to ICE vehicles. But, like any other technology, the ICE was destined to be replaced. EVs will be no different. Advancing technology for the greater good should be celebrated.

What is truly pathetic is the hostile, aggressive attitude against EV adoption. People who intentionally modify their pick-ups to "coal-roll", or parking in an EV charging spot to prevent someone from charging, or saying "only real men drive ICE vehicles" points to some other deep seeded issues. Perhaps never being able to satisfy a woman. Regardless, a person who needs to proclaim their manhood usually isn't much of a man.
Click to expand...
Ultimately, the manic chest-thumping comes from knowing deep inside basic logic dictates that the 17-20 moving parts that propel an EV forward with 80-90% of the energy in batteries versus hundreds where only 20-30% of the energy stored in each gallon of gasoline ends up actually pushing an ICE car forward (with the rest lost as useless heat) means there is an inevitability to EVs becoming dominant.
It's no different than when the genius of the Model T's manufacturing making it affordable to the middle class meant that horses were going to get a much needed break.
I hope I'm alive to see what replaces EVs because of the computer and AI-accelerated nature of technological evolution today. It's not to be feared but enjoyed with wonder.
 
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LBusDoor90 said:
The issue here remains the tendency of people (even those we would all consider rational) to "OK" rapidly through the "Terms of Use" screens to start off the enabling of the autopilot feature. It pretty much warns you it will have the capabilities of an overly-cautious 16 yo driver so that you need to be ready on a moment's notice to take over and that it will be quick to turn the driving back over to you if it gets remotely confused. It has been a great, very rarely-used feature for me as a back up of sorts when crossing southern NJ late at night to go from Long Beach Island to the other side of the state when an overly cautious kid driver is likely better than I might be even though I'm fully alert in my opinion but tired.
In the end, human choices are as much (if not more) a part of the problem with this technology's employment and that weak link factor leads me to agree with you more and more with each autopilot-related accident. (...and they need to change the name from "autopilot" to "driver assist"; it's part of the human problem)
Click to expand...
I agree. I think a lot of the assist tech in cars is a good thing. And once V2V and V2I is working (decades from now), we can most likely remove humans from the equation entirely.

It’s th current semiautomatic driving with its reliance on humans being alert when most of the time they have no reason to be alert that flouts human nature.
 
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LBusDoor90 said:
Ultimately, the manic chest-thumping comes from knowing deep inside basic logic dictates that the 17-20 moving parts that propel an EV forward with 80-90% of the energy in batteries versus hundreds where only 20-30% of the energy stored in each gallon of gasoline ends up actually pushing an ICE car forward (with the rest lost as useless heat) means there is an inevitability to EVs becoming dominant.
It's no different than when the genius of the Model T's manufacturing making it affordable to the middle class meant that horses were going to get a much needed break.
I hope I'm alive to see what replaces EVs because of the computer and AI-accelerated nature of technological evolution today. It's not to be feared but enjoyed with wonder.
Click to expand...
Do you really think that goru knows that? You give him too much credit.
 
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Can anyone recommend a good app to locate free charging station or charging stations in general? Thanks in advance.
 
jtung230 said:
Can anyone recommend a good app to locate free charging station or charging stations in general? Thanks in advance.
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I had 2-3 weeks of needing to charge before having my home charger installed. Obviously used Tesla chargers mostly but also downloaded and used ChargePoint. Pretty large network and easy to use app/map
 
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jtung230 said:
Can anyone recommend a good app to locate free charging station or charging stations in general? Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
https://abetterrouteplanner.com/classic/

Although I've never had to use bc I drive a Tesla, I've heard great things about this app. Best feature is, prior to your route, you input the make and model of your EV. That way, your trip is customized to your EV's specs. Chargers from all companies are displayed as well as the charging speed.

This was the app that the "reporter" from the WSJ supposedly used (but really ignored), when she did her hit piece on EV charging.
 
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RUevolution36 said:
www.inputmag.com

The Hummer EV produces more CO2 than a gas-powered sedan

Even going all-electric has its limits for how much good it can do.
www.inputmag.com www.inputmag.com
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🤣 I love how, after the red meat headline and reinforcing body text, they saved this for last, knowing the "confirmation bias" seeking audience would likely not get to it:
"To be fair, the Hummer EV uses less than half the CO2 of a traditional Hummer. Maybe the lesson here is that the planet would be better off without any Hummers at all."
I think they should have gone bigger by saying "The Hummer EV produces more CO2 than a motorcycle" or "The Hummer EV produces more CO2 than a walking boy". Of course it does, especially if you choose to use electricity generation and resulting emission numbers from parts of the country where coal is still king and carbon free nuclear doesn't exist.
Many studies show that many EV buyers also put solar panels into service on their homes at the same time as their EV purchase (like me). Can we see those numbers? Can these exercises in distorted accounting of emissions just for once also admit they still completely ignore the emissions from electricity generation on site at refineries as it makes total financial sense for them to burn their own product rather than pay utilities the retail rate for the massive amount of kWhs they need to refiine?
It figures that liars are always going to use figures to lie.
 
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LBusDoor90 said:
🤣 I love how, after the red meat headline and reinforcing body text, they saved this for last, knowing the "confirmation bias" seeking audience would likely not get to it:
"To be fair, the Hummer EV uses less than half the CO2 of a traditional Hummer. Maybe the lesson here is that the planet would be better off without any Hummers at all."
I think they should have gone bigger but saying "The Hummer EV produces more CO2 than a motorcycle" or "The Hummer EV produces more CO2 than a walking boy". Of course it does, especially if you choose to use electricity generation and resulting emission numbers from parts of the country where coal is still king and carbon free nuclear doesn't exist.
Many studies show that many EV buyers also put solar panels into service on their homes at the same time as their EV purchase (like me). Can we see those numbers? Can these exercises in distorted accounting of emissions just for once also admit they still completely ignore the emissions from electricity generation on site at refineries as it makes total financial sense for them to burn their own product rather than pay utilities the retail rate for the massive amount of kWhs they need to refiine?
Liars are always going to use figures to lie.
Click to expand...
Personally, I agree with the quote from the article about the planet being better without any Hummers (the vehicle 😜) at all. I don't see this 9k lb beast accelerating the transition to electric transport in any way, and still feel it's an incredible waste of resources and lack of innovation from GM. Anyone paying attention understands how precious batteries are and will be for the rest of the decade. One Hummer battery pack could make 3 sedans.

And I agree with you 100% about the ignored data when it comes to energy usage to extract, transport, refine, and transport again for gasoline.
 
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BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap said:
Personally, I agree with the quote from the article about the planet being better without any Hummers (the vehicle 😜) at all. I don't see this 9k lb beast accelerating the transition to electric transport in any way, and still feel it's an incredible waste of resources and lack of innovation from GM. Anyone paying attention understands how precious batteries are and will be for the rest of the decade. One Hummer battery pack could make 3 sedans.
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I couldn’t agree more. I just found it belly laugh worthy they’d compare such a huge, macho vehicle to a small sedan to imply a big dump on ALL EVs, and then completely crap on the existence of Hummers in general in the end, counting on readers not to recognize the cognitive dissonance in doing so.
 
BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap said:
Personally, I agree with the quote from the article about the planet being better without any Hummers (the vehicle 😜) at all. I don't see this 9k lb beast accelerating the transition to electric transport in any way, and still feel it's an incredible waste of resources and lack of innovation from GM. Anyone paying attention understands how precious batteries are and will be for the rest of the decade. One Hummer battery pack could make 3 sedans.

And I agree with you 100% about the ignored data when it comes to energy usage to extract, transport, refine, and transport again for gasoline.
Click to expand...
I'm conflicted. On one hand, the tree-hugger in me thinks that al EVs should be as small as possible and practical, like the Nissan Leaf. On the other hand, it is kind of cool to see how gaudy and big an EV SUV/Truck can be and the cool things it can do. But you are right, when it comes to consumption of resources (batter power and the precious materials that go into battery manufacture), it seem wasteful and those batteries/materials could go to better/more efficient use. But the Hummer was always about excess from the beginning, and the tradition continues.
 
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jtung230 said:
Can anyone recommend a good app to locate free charging station or charging stations in general? Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
ChargePoint works well for me, then again I don’t typically need an app as I bought my BEV primarily for local use and just charge at home
 
WhichReligionIsRight said:
The Hummer is a ridiculous nonsensical vehicle. I'll be surprised if GM sells more than 1,000 a year.
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They won't. And at that piddly volume, it's a guaranteed negative margin.

Imagine the buzz from an electric Corvette or Blazer. They could charge a premium and still wouldn't be able to make them fast enough. So dumb.
 
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mildone said:
jalopnik.com

BMW Will Build a Bulletproof All-Electric i7 For Greenies With Enemies

An armored BMW i7 electric luxury sedan is coming in 2023.
jalopnik.com jalopnik.com
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I hope it bares a semblance to one of these which are very cool in my book...
D178533.jpg

popemobile_2912498b.jpg
 
BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap said:
https://abetterrouteplanner.com/classic/

Although I've never had to use bc I drive a Tesla, I've heard great things about this app. Best feature is, prior to your route, you input the make and model of your EV. That way, your trip is customized to your EV's specs. Chargers from all companies are displayed as well as the charging speed.

This was the app that the "reporter" from the WSJ supposedly used (but really ignored), when she did her hit piece on EV charging.
Click to expand...
The app doesn’t have great reviews. Have you heard about plug share?
 
Knight Shift said:
View embedded media


View embedded media


www.bloomberg.com

US Crosses the Electric-Car Tipping Point for Mass Adoption

Once 5% of new-car sales go fully electric, everything changes — according to a Bloomberg analysis of the 19 countries that have made the EV pivot.
www.bloomberg.com www.bloomberg.com
Click to expand...
That tweet thread is quite interesting. Surprised at the high rate of EV adoption in Iceland and Norway. A concern here in the United State is will the grid and charging network be able to handle widespread adoption?
 
Knight Shift said:
View embedded media


View embedded media


www.bloomberg.com

US Crosses the Electric-Car Tipping Point for Mass Adoption

Once 5% of new-car sales go fully electric, everything changes — according to a Bloomberg analysis of the 19 countries that have made the EV pivot.
www.bloomberg.com www.bloomberg.com
Click to expand...
This question was discussed on the Electrified YouTube channel. I thought I'd share:

Is it possible for this exponential growth curve to continue in the US?
Obstacles:
Raw material shortages
Semiconductor shortages
Production challenges
Reluctant automakers
Lack of charging infrastructure (even if only perceived)
Oil and gas opposition
Dealership opposition
Slower mainstream adoption due to lack of education about EVs (FUD influence).

Does EV adoption in the US:
1. Maintain the current, traditional exponential growth curve.
2. Continue growth, but in a hybrid growth curve.
3. Continue growth in a linear fashion from this point onwards
4. Level off between 5-10%

Thoughts?
 
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