OT: Electric vehicles

[jtung230]

Hey @jtung230 , we are driving the Motor Trend Truck of the year! Not the EV Truck of the Year. THE TRUCK OF THE YEAR. Take that Rivian and Tesla!

The Ford F-150 Lightning Is the 2023 MotorTrend Truck Of The Year

The F-150 Lightning is the first electric pickup to appeal directly to existing truck buyers, doing it so well that it’s easily our 2023 Truck of the Year.

www.motortrend.com

Not surprised. It checks all the boxes. Winter range is the only issue that people will have tough time with.

 

[jtung230]

Not too bad of a hit.

My average road trip is around 250 miles, including some winter trips. Getting in the ballpark ...

What’s your cruising speed on the highway? If it’s over 70 mph, it will be another hit to the range. 80 mph, it might be a 40% reduction.

 

[fsg2]

What’s your cruising speed on the highway? If it’s over 70 mph, it will be another hit to the range. 80 mph, it might be a 40% reduction.

Yikes, good point.

Several of the trips I mentioned zip through 80-mph speed zones, so definitely above 80, often 90. Even if I dialed back, it'd be at least 70.

 

[jtung230]

Yikes, good point.

Several of the trips I mentioned zip through 80-mph speed zones, so definitely above 80, often 90. Even if I dialed back, it'd be at least 70.

At 90mph, you might lose over 50% range. In one of my earlier trips in my ID4, had a 60 mile trip with 110 mile range. Doing 80mph on the GSP and didn’t think I was going to make it. Slowed down to 65 mph for the last 10 miles and made it with 20 miles left.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

Yikes, good point.

Several of the trips I mentioned zip through 80-mph speed zones, so definitely above 80, often 90. Even if I dialed back, it'd be at least 70.

I hope you're aware there are DC fast chargers along all major highways.

I have never experienced a range loss even close to 40% during winter travel at highway speed. I suppose it's possible. Every vehicle is different. I drive a LR Model 3.

 

[RU4Real]

I hope you're aware there are DC fast chargers along all major highways.

I have never experienced a range loss even close to 40% during winter travel at highway speed. I suppose it's possible. Every vehicle is different. I drive a LR Model 3.

Power consumption increases faster as speed increases - this is true for IC and EV vehicles. A Bugatti Veyron can run for 13 minutes at top speed before it burns through its entire fuel tank.

This has always been my major reluctance with EVs. I frequently go 100 mph on interstate highways and am rarely under 80 unless there's traffic. There wouldn't be a lot of range available under those conditions.

 

[mildone]

A Bugatti Veyron can run for 13 minutes at top speed before it burns through its entire fuel tank.

Doing that would probably also burn through it's roughly $42,000 set of tires, which is nuts. 😃

This has always been my major reluctance with EVs. I frequently go 100 mph on interstate highways and am rarely under 80 unless there's traffic. There wouldn't be a lot of range available under those conditions.

This is also a major reluctance for me (not surprisingly anybody). And is probably why, for my next SUV, I am probably going either hybrid or gas, while waiting for the combination of range, numbers of high-speed chargers, and charging speeds to improve.

I wouldn't mind only having 300-400 miles of range in cold weather at 85 or 90 mph. But only if I was relatively assured there wouldn't be a line waiting at the next charger and/or the charging time for pretty much a full change would be shorter than what we're seeing today. With gas, it's always easy to find and quick to fill up.

I believe we'll get there and pretty soon. Just not before I buy my next SUV.

 

[fsg2]

I hope you're aware there are DC fast chargers along all major highways.

I have never experienced a range loss even close to 40% during winter travel at highway speed. I suppose it's possible. Every vehicle is different. I drive a LR Model 3.

I'm not worried about getting stranded, but I'd like to be able to do a 4 hour trip without stopping to charge.

Also, some of the routes run through the type of absolute nowhere that you gas up just because you're not sure when you'll see a gas station again.

 

[jtung230]

Doing that would probably also burn through it's roughly $42,000 set of tires, which is nuts. 😃


This is also a major reluctance for me (not surprisingly anybody). And is probably why, for my next SUV, I am probably going either hybrid or gas, while waiting for the combination of range, numbers of high-speed chargers, and charging speeds to improve.

I wouldn't mind only having 300-400 miles of range in cold weather at 85 or 90 mph. But only if I was relatively assured there wouldn't be a line waiting at the next charger and/or the charging time for pretty much a full change would be shorter than what we're seeing today. With gas, it's always easy to find and quick to fill up.

I believe we'll get there and pretty soon. Just not before I buy my next SUV.

Do you really take that many long trips Or is it a mental thing? I haven’t seen many high end sports cars with tons of miles on them.

 

[mildone]

Do you really take that many long trips Or is it a mental thing? I haven’t seen many high end sports cars with tons of miles on them.

My only two reasons for getting an SUV are long road trips and inclement weather. Well, and a third reason being it can comfortably seat more than two people.

Otherwise I use one of two sports cars, both of which are very low to the ground and unfit for snow. I put about 10K per year on my newest sports car, almost entirely 3-4+ hour drives every one to two weeks. No commute. I wouldn’t buy a car and not drive it.

I will, eventually, get an EV SUV. Just not quite yet. Probably never getting an EV sports car, zero interest.

If I had a commute, I’d probably already have an EV SUV. Because range wouldn’t be an issue for that kind of thing.

 

[RU4Real]

My only two reasons for getting an SUV are long road trips and inclement weather. Well, and a third reason being it can comfortably seat more than two people.

Otherwise I use one of two sports cars, both of which are very low to the ground and unfit for snow. I put about 10K per year on my newest sports car, almost entirely 3-4+ hour drives every one to two weeks. No commute. I wouldn’t buy a car and not drive it.

I will, eventually, get an EV SUV. Just not quite yet. Probably never getting an EV sports car, zero interest.

If I had a commute, I’d probably already have an EV SUV. Because range wouldn’t be an issue for that kind of thing.

Apropos of... well, everything that matters... Ford's Coyote V8 has been retuned for the new '24 Mustang. 480 hp in the "base" Mustang GT and an even 500 in the Dark Horse package.

 

[Knight Shift]

Power consumption increases faster as speed increases - this is true for IC and EV vehicles. A Bugatti Veyron can run for 13 minutes at top speed before it burns through its entire fuel tank.

This has always been my major reluctance with EVs. I frequently go 100 mph on interstate highways and am rarely under 80 unless there's traffic. There wouldn't be a lot of range available under those conditions.

I still beat you in the Gator Bowl cannonball.

 

[mildone]

Apropos of... well, everything that matters... Ford's Coyote V8 has been retuned for the new '24 Mustang. 480 hp in the "base" Mustang GT and an even 500 in the Dark Horse package.

It seems to me that all the different manufacturers of ICE sports cars are making an effort to go out with a bang, especially those with naturally aspirated engines like the Mustangs. Which is good except that parts shortages and high demand have made them all hard, and costlier, to obtain.

 

[RU4Real]

It seems to me that all the different manufacturers of ICE sports cars are making an effort to go out with a bang, especially those with naturally aspirated engines like the Mustangs. Which is good except that parts shortages and high demand have made them all hard, and costlier, to obtain.

Yeah.

Still, I feel my determination growing on this one. We'll see, I reckon.

 

[mildone]

Yeah.

Still, I feel my determination growing on this one. We'll see, I reckon.

I understand.

 

[jtung230]

Ford again hikes the starting price of the F-150 Lightning pickup, now up 40% since launch

A new price increase of $4,000 means Ford has upped the entry-level pricing of the F-150 Lightning electric pickup by 40% since the vehicle's launch.

www.cnbc.com

This is why I decided to pay the 2500 over MSRP. MSRP is going up anyway.

 

[mildone]

Ford again hikes the starting price of the F-150 Lightning pickup, now up 40% since launch

A new price increase of $4,000 means Ford has upped the entry-level pricing of the F-150 Lightning electric pickup by 40% since the vehicle's launch.

www.cnbc.com

This is why I decided to pay the 2500 over MSRP. MSRP is going up anyway.

Understandable, and probably not unwise as it'll be a while for supply to catch up to demand.

But the concept of paying over MSRP is one I have yet to embrace. I've spent a lifetime paying less than MSRP, often a lot less.

The car I most want at the moment is close to unobtainable for me. If I offered a dealer $250K over MSRP, I might be able to get a build allocation for sometime in 2024, maybe. But that's just a whole lot more than I want to spend on a car I'd drive probably no more often than once per week, and even less in the winter.

Low mileage used cars of the model from the prior generation are still selling at way over their original MSRP. And that's always risky, even with getting highly detailed inspections done first.

First world problem, but it sucks nonetheless.

 

[imoapie]

Understandable, and probably not unwise as it'll be a while for supply to catch up to demand.

But the concept of paying over MSRP is one I have yet to embrace. I've spent a lifetime paying less than MSRP, often a lot less.

The car I most want at the moment is close to unobtainable for me. If I offered a dealer $250K over MSRP, I might be able to get a build allocation for sometime in 2024, maybe. But that's just a whole lot more than I want to spend on a car I'd drive probably no more often than once per week, and even less in the winter.

Low mileage used cars of the model from the prior generation are still selling at way over their original MSRP. And that's always risky, even with getting highly detailed inspections done first.

First world problem, but it sucks nonetheless.

My last two new car purchases I started the negotiation at invoice. This was 10 years ago, whole different world now.

 

[jtung230]

Understandable, and probably not unwise as it'll be a while for supply to catch up to demand.

But the concept of paying over MSRP is one I have yet to embrace. I've spent a lifetime paying less than MSRP, often a lot less.

The car I most want at the moment is close to unobtainable for me. If I offered a dealer $250K over MSRP, I might be able to get a build allocation for sometime in 2024, maybe. But that's just a whole lot more than I want to spend on a car I'd drive probably no more often than once per week, and even less in the winter.

Low mileage used cars of the model from the prior generation are still selling at way over their original MSRP. And that's always risky, even with getting highly detailed inspections done first.

First world problem, but it sucks nonetheless.

I’m with you. But the deal made sense financially due to the change in tax credit and MSRP price increase. But more importantly, I had to get it before @Knight Shift

 

[Knight Shift]

I’m with you. But the deal made sense financially due to the change in tax credit and MSRP price increase. But more importantly, I had to get it before @Knight Shift

For both of us, however, we may be $8-10,000 in the positive margin since the price increases took effect.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

This article really gets into the weeds on energy usage and range optimization in the Tesla Model 3 for winter and summer driving. I have to imagine the data would be similar with other EVs.


https://cleantechnica.com/2020/08/1...la-model-3-energy-efficiency-energy-use-hvac/

 

[jtung230]

I will provide my personal experience. I think this is what most ICE drivers want to know.

Background, I don’t park my EV in the garage. My EV is not plugged in unless it’s charging. My daily driving range is 5 miles and it’s around town (top speed of 35mph). I blast the heat to de-ice. This is EXACTLY how I drove my ICE vehicle before. In December, I’m averaging 1.6 kw/mile. This is about 38% decrease in the EPA range. The 38% number is big but it has ZERO impact on my driving habits. I charge once a week. I can obviously do better to improve range by doing all the suggested or driving longer distance. But overall, the winter range thing is more headline grabbing than real world impact. I understand it impacts people who drive 100+ miles per day. But for the majority of drivers, doesn’t make a difference. You might have to charge it more often but it’s not going to limit use.

 

[RUevolution36]

This article really gets into the weeds on energy usage and range optimization in the Tesla Model 3 for winter and summer driving. I have to imagine the data would be similar with other EVs.


https://cleantechnica.com/2020/08/1...la-model-3-energy-efficiency-energy-use-hvac/

Is this the case for all cars? The defroster being such a huge energy suck?

 

[jtung230]

Is this the case for all cars? The defroster being such a huge energy suck?

ICE are using heat from the engines. EV is using a hair dryer. The only benefit for EV is that the defroster works much faster than ICE because it doesn’t need to wait for the engine to warm up.

 

[RU4Real]

ICE are using heat from the engines. EV is using a hair dryer. The only benefit for EV is that the defroster works much faster than ICE because it doesn’t need to wait for the engine to warm up.

Not so much with most ICE cars these days, either. Most are turbocharged, the turbos heat up immediately and that heat is transferred via the intercooler to the core.

My S60 makes heat within 2 minutes.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

 

[jtung230]

Not so much with most ICE cars these days, either. Most are turbocharged, the turbos heat up immediately and that heat is transferred via the intercooler to the core.

My S60 makes heat within 2 minutes.

You have to wait for 2 minutes?

 

[RU4Real]

You have to wait for 2 minutes?

I don't, no. I can start the car from anywhere, so... If it's cold I just start the car from inside the house, or wherever. Nice and toasty by the time I get to it.

 

[jtung230]

View embedded media

Why is this news? There are ton of accessories sold for trucks and SUV already.

 

[RUevolution36]

Why is this news? There are ton of accessories sold for trucks and SUV already.

There are no such things unless Elon makes them.

 

[fsg2]

View embedded media

Like a $24K camping topper that would cost under $10K on another pickup.

 

[fsg2]

Why is this news? There are ton of accessories sold for trucks and SUV already.

Because none of them fit the stupid Cybertruck.

 

[jtung230]

@Knight Shift Jim Kramer was plugging the Lighting hard this morning. His reason is the home generator ability. It’s part of the reason I told myself why I needed one.

 

[RUevolution36]

Microlino reboots bubble car with electric model

Two Swiss brothers have launched a new version of the Microlino micro EV, modeled on BMW's Isetta bubble car, this time with four wheels, not three.

www.autoblog.com

 

[Knight Shift]

@Knight Shift Jim Kramer was plugging the Lighting hard this morning. His reason is the home generator ability. It’s part of the reason I told myself why I needed one.

Kramer reminds me of this from Caddyshack. I like Kramer more now!

 

[mildone]

I’ve mentioned this before, and while it’s not about EV’s strictly speaking, it is about EVs in the sense that it might wind up being a nearly carbon neutral means of fueling existing ICEVs in the future. Or part of a means at least.

Porsche Filled a 911 With Gas Made from Water

Porsche fired up its synthetic fuel plant in Chile and filled a 911 with carbon-neutral gas made from water and carbon dioxide.

jalopnik.com

Still a long way off from being viable for a mass consumer product. Might never get to that point for any number of reasons. But it’s still an interesting energy technology that, if it solves some problems and achieves some economy of scale, could pressure EV-only vehicles and possibly delay 100% adoption.

 

[Section124]

At 90mph, you might lose over 50% range. In one of my earlier trips in my ID4, had a 60 mile trip with 110 mile range. Doing 80mph on the GSP and didn’t think I was going to make it. Slowed down to 65 mph for the last 10 miles and made it with 20 miles left.

Do you have an ID4 and an F-150? Don't have the time to read all the way back. If so, how do you like it? Was curious since I considered an ID4 but then decided against it due to the range in winter. Going skiing in NY or VT, not really looking to stop and charge on the way there. Even to Hunter, it's 110 miles each way. I generally do 80+ on 87. Based on some other posts, looks like I would barely make it there and back on a single charge. That would suck.

 

[jtung230]

I can give a review on the power frunk in the Lighting. The drain plug works as advertised. I was doing trucker things like picking up groceries from ShopRite. Milk leaked. Took a hose and just sprayed it down for easy cleaning.

 

[jtung230]

Do you have an ID4 and an F-150? Don't have the time to read all the way back. If so, how do you like it? Was curious since I considered an ID4 but then decided against it due to the range in winter. Going skiing in NY or VT, not really looking to stop and charge on the way there. Even to Hunter, it's 110 miles each way. I generally do 80+ on 87. Based on some other posts, looks like I would barely make it there and back on a single charge. That would suck.

If you don’t want to stop and charge, don’t get it. It will never make 220 miles doing 80mph in the cold. Now, unless you are doing day trips, no reason why you can’t charge overnight. You can do 110 miles at 80 mph no problem.

 

[Knight Shift]

I can give a review on the power frunk in the Lighting. The drain plug works as advertised. I was doing trucker things like picking up groceries from ShopRite. Milk leaked. Took a hose and just sprayed it down for easy cleaning.

So, what you are saying, your F150 is a good milk truck. You could never handle such a truckly task in your ID4. The milk would have wetted the carpet in the cabin or the trunk. Only frunks have drain plugs. Well worth the $80,000, as carpet cleaning and deodorizing has gotten very expensive in this hyperinflation environment.