OT: Electric vehicles

[jtung230]

TSLA planning to expand TX plant. Demand continues to boom.

Tesla applies for $776M expansion of Texas gigafactory

Tesla is investing nearly $776 million to expand its gigafactory in Texas despite a rough year for the company that included a plummeted stock price and production snags.

www.foxbusiness.com

a few price cuts will help demand. Unfortunately, Tesla isa price taker now. They need to save cost elsewhere to maintain margin.

 

[T2Kplus20]

a few price cuts will help demand. Unfortunately, Tesla isa price taker now. They need to save cost elsewhere to maintain margin.

Don't be stupid. Price cuts are in response to the Feds $7500 rebate and the asinine way it is being implemented. D'uh.

 

[RUevolution36]

In what universe is Tesla a "luxury car brand"?

Their interiors are crap. Fit and finish is crap. Any German sedan puts Tesla's material and build quality to shame.

Because they are expensive?

 

[RU4Real]

Because they are expensive?

That's the criteria they're using, yes.

Ariel Atoms are expensive, too.

 

[jtung230]

Don't be stupid. Price cuts are in response to the Feds $7500 rebate and the asinine way it is being implemented. D'uh.

LOL…..right before quarter end to juice the numbers. D’uh

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

a few price cuts will help demand. Unfortunately, Tesla isa price taker now. They need to save cost elsewhere to maintain margin.

Which is their greatest strength....Manufacturing!

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

LOL…..right before quarter end to juice the numbers. D’uh

"Juice the numbers"...lol Why would anyone buy a Tesla in December if they know they're going to save $7500 by waiting till January?

And speaking of manufacturing....



This is the 9,000 ton press that will be used to make Cybertruck.

 

[RutgersNo1]

Tesla cutting prices…

 

[RUevolution36]

Tesla cutting prices…

By a lot.

Tesla turns up heat on rivals with global price cuts

The move marks a reversal from the automaker's strategy over the last two years when new vehicle orders exceeded supply.

www.reuters.com

 

[jtung230]

"Juice the numbers"...lol Why would anyone buy a Tesla in December if they know they're going to save $7500 by waiting till January?

And speaking of manufacturing....

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This is the 9,000 ton press that will be used to make Cybertruck.

What’s the new excuse? Cutting prices in January now. Clearly they have a demand problem.

 

[jtung230]

By a lot.

Tesla turns up heat on rivals with global price cuts

The move marks a reversal from the automaker's strategy over the last two years when new vehicle orders exceeded supply.

www.reuters.com

This will kill the resale value.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

What’s the new excuse? Cutting prices in January now. Clearly they have a demand problem.

Yeah, "they", like this is exclusive to Tesla. There are demand issues across the ENTIRE auto sector. ICE sales more than EVs. Where have you been? Legacy auto sales are in the middle of a 7 year decline.







With the price cuts + IRA rebate, Tesla is now in a position to challenge vehicles below the premium/luxury category. You think this is bad news for Tesla? It's worse news for the legacy ICE business. You want a Toyota Camry or a Model 3?

 

[RUevolution36]

Yeah, "they", like this is exclusive to Tesla. There are demand issues across the ENTIRE auto sector. ICE sales more than EVs. Where have you been? Legacy auto sales are in the middle of a 7 year decline.

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With the price cuts + IRA rebate, Tesla is now in a position to challenge vehicles below the premium/luxury category. You think this is bad news for Tesla? It's worse news for the legacy ICE business. You want a Toyota Camry or a Model 3?

Honda Accord, all day.

 

[RutgersNo1]

Ordered a Model Y LR today.
My Honda accord finally quit on me yesterday. The dealer asked for $3,000 to replace a catalyst converter.

 

[T2Kplus20]

Ordered a Model Y LR today.
My Honda accord finally quit on me yesterday. The dealer asked for $3,000 to replace a catalyst converter.

Nice. Did you get a timeline for delivery?

 

[mildone]

Honda Accord, all day.

I don't want any of them since they're sedans. If given the choice of those three, I'd want the Camry. But I'd look into the relative pricing and, if the numbers worked out, I'd get the Model 3, then immediately trade it in for the Camry. There'd be no tax on the Camry due to the trade-in, and I'd expect some money back. But there would be more taxes on the Model 3 than the Camry.

So the question is if I'd get back enough in the trade that I'd make back more than the gap between the Model 3 tax hit versus the Camry plus taxes. Probably not, I'd guess.

I dunno. Maybe my math is way off here. But of the 3, I like the Camry the best. Actually looks pretty nice these days.

 

[RutgersNo1]

Nice. Did you get a timeline for delivery?

It says Jan-Mar. I asked my advisor for more details but haven’t received any response.

 

[RutgersNo1]

Btw my local Honda dealer is still asking for $2000 markup.
Nearly $40k for a CRV. No thanks.

 

[mildone]

Btw my local Honda dealer is still asking for $2000 markup.
Nearly $40k for a CRV. No thanks.

What is the predicted wait for the Y? Nevermind, I see you answered that above.

I wouldn't pay over MSRP for the CRV either. Or for most any other normal car. Not unless I had to have a car now and couldn't find a brand/model I liked that was back to MSRP or lower.

Despite attempts to slow inflation, automotive pricing is still out of control right now. Hopefully it will calm down pretty soon.

 

[jtung230]

Yeah, "they", like this is exclusive to Tesla. There are demand issues across the ENTIRE auto sector. ICE sales more than EVs. Where have you been? Legacy auto sales are in the middle of a 7 year decline.

View embedded media

View embedded media

With the price cuts + IRA rebate, Tesla is now in a position to challenge vehicles below the premium/luxury category. You think this is bad news for Tesla? It's worse news for the legacy ICE business. You want a Toyota Camry or a Model 3?

It’s clearly bad for Tesla. Especially bad for investors. Can’t spin that. ICE automakers sells in multiple of Tesla so they need to manage demand. When you only sell 1.4mm units worldwide and have a demand problem, it’s a problem.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

Ordered a Model Y LR today.
My Honda accord finally quit on me yesterday. The dealer asked for $3,000 to replace a catalyst converter.

Congrats. Looking forward to hearing about your experiences getting and driving your new car.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

Ordered a Model Y LR today.
My Honda accord finally quit on me yesterday. The dealer asked for $3,000 to replace a catalyst converter.

You need a referral code?

 

[RutgersNo1]

You need a referral code?

I thought the referral program is gone? Can I add the code after I placed the order?

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

I thought the referral program is gone? Can I add the code after I placed the order?

They still have the rewards program and you should still be able to use. Ask your sales rep.

robert95009

Cheers!

 

[RutgersNo1]

They still have the rewards program and you should still be able to use. Ask your sales rep.

robert95009

Cheers!

Ok I just sent your code to my sales rep. Thanks.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

It’s clearly bad for Tesla. Especially bad for investors. Can’t spin that. ICE automakers sells in multiple of Tesla so they need to manage demand. When you only sell 1.4mm units worldwide and have a demand problem, it’s a problem.

Might be bad for short term gamblers of Tesla stock. Great news for long term investors.

1.4mm units for premium priced vehicles is pretty damn good, especially during shaky economic times. I'm sure you heard Tesla just dethroned BMW for vehicles sales at that price point in the US. With these price cuts + the IRA credits, they've just entered a much larger pool of potential customers.

This is not going to be the hammer on Tesla's margins that you might think. Tesla will get 100% of the tax credit for domestic production of battery cells and battery modules. This adds up to a big ass number.

"A tax credit is also included for the production of battery cells and battery modules in the United States based on the capacity in kilowatt hours of the battery cell or module. The credit in the case of a battery cell is based on the capacity of the cell up to $35 per kWh, and in the case of a module is based on the capacity of the module up to $10 per kWh (or, in the case of a battery module that does not use battery cells, $45 per kWh). For a 75kWh battery pack, this means that there could be a tax credit of up to $2,625 ($35 per kWh) for the maker of the battery cells and up to $750 for the maker of the modules ($10 per kWh). The credit is eligible for direct payment from Treasury and the right to the credit can be sold for cash to third parties (in both cases subject to certain limitations)."
https://www.orrick.com/en/Insights/...ax-Credits-Available-to-Battery-Manufacturers


Other factors to consider:
The ramp of the Austin factory where the latest manufacturing efficiencies have yet to hit the bottom line.
Continued ramp of in-house 4680 cells
Supply costs are declining
Tesla energy.... Powerwall and Megapack are set to grow rapidly in 2023 with the opening of the new Megapack factory in Lathrop, Ca.

Lastly, these may seem like drastic cuts, but if you go back a year or 2 to where the price of Tesla's were, it's really not much of a difference. Sorry, I don't know how to add a screenshot, but if you jump to the 1:15 mark of the video, you'll see a price breakdown to the different models over the past 2 years.

​

 

[jtung230]

Might be bad for short term gamblers of Tesla stock. Great news for long term investors.

1.4mm units for premium priced vehicles is pretty damn good, especially during shaky economic times. I'm sure you heard Tesla just dethroned BMW for vehicles sales at that price point in the US. With these price cuts + the IRA credits, they've just entered a much larger pool of potential customers.

This is not going to be the hammer on Tesla's margins that you might think. Tesla will get 100% of the tax credit for domestic production of battery cells and battery modules. This adds up to a big ass number.

"A tax credit is also included for the production of battery cells and battery modules in the United States based on the capacity in kilowatt hours of the battery cell or module. The credit in the case of a battery cell is based on the capacity of the cell up to $35 per kWh, and in the case of a module is based on the capacity of the module up to $10 per kWh (or, in the case of a battery module that does not use battery cells, $45 per kWh). For a 75kWh battery pack, this means that there could be a tax credit of up to $2,625 ($35 per kWh) for the maker of the battery cells and up to $750 for the maker of the modules ($10 per kWh). The credit is eligible for direct payment from Treasury and the right to the credit can be sold for cash to third parties (in both cases subject to certain limitations)."
https://www.orrick.com/en/Insights/...ax-Credits-Available-to-Battery-Manufacturers


Other factors to consider:
The ramp of the Austin factory where the latest manufacturing efficiencies have yet to hit the bottom line.
Continued ramp of in-house 4680 cells
Supply costs are declining
Tesla energy.... Powerwall and Megapack are set to grow rapidly in 2023 with the opening of the new Megapack factory in Lathrop, Ca.

Lastly, these may seem like drastic cuts, but if you go back a year or 2 to where the price of Tesla's were, it's really not much of a difference. Sorry, I don't know how to add a screenshot, but if you jump to the 1:15 mark of the video, you'll see a price breakdown to the different models over the past 2 years.

View embedded media

​

This is very typical corporate strategy. Cut margins to gain market share. If they can some how cut prices and maintain margins, kudos.

 

[mildone]

Might be bad for short term gamblers of Tesla stock. Great news for long term investors.

I generally agree with this. Although I would never be so certain about the future as you're being (never a smart thing to do). But my best guess would be it'll work out okay for long term investors and the company.

In the EV space, Tesla has a big manufacturing lead at the moment. Giving them plenty of buffer to fight a price-war if that's what they're thinking. But it puts pressure on all the automakers who are mid-transition. Makes an already costly time even more costly.

But so many things can derail corporate intent. So we'll have to wait and see what transpires. I kind of think there's a decent chance Tesla might wind up with a big China problem.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

 

[mildone]

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Nice to see Tesla finally making it's way out of the 90s and catching up. I've been doing that in any car I'm in for well over a decade. All one needs is a tablet with a cellular data plan and the right subscriptions. 😉

 

[RU4Real]

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I'm watching television on... ya know... my big screen TV, because I don't have to sit around and charge my car.

 

[RUevolution36]

I don't want any of them since they're sedans. If given the choice of those three, I'd want the Camry. But I'd look into the relative pricing and, if the numbers worked out, I'd get the Model 3, then immediately trade it in for the Camry. There'd be no tax on the Camry due to the trade-in, and I'd expect some money back. But there would be more taxes on the Model 3 than the Camry.

So the question is if I'd get back enough in the trade that I'd make back more than the gap between the Model 3 tax hit versus the Camry plus taxes. Probably not, I'd guess.

I dunno. Maybe my math is way off here. But of the 3, I like the Camry the best. Actually looks pretty nice these days.

Camry's drive like marshmallows. Even the newer ones. The accord won't ever be mistaken for a sports car, but at least you have a reasonable idea what the car is doing on center.

 

[rurahrah000]

It’s clearly bad for Tesla. Especially bad for investors. Can’t spin that. ICE automakers sells in multiple of Tesla so they need to manage demand. When you only sell 1.4mm units worldwide and have a demand problem, it’s a problem.

I feel like this will turn out to be good for Tesla in the long run. The base model 3 now costs ~$43,000. If you qualify for the $7,500 rebate, you are looking at $36,500 which is like a new Accord or Camry. I bet many people will choose a new Tesla over an Accord or Camry. Furthermore, this cut will force the likes of Lucid et al to cut the price of their cars as well. Base Model S is now ~$95,000 which is cheaper than the Lucid Pure (still has not started production). The price pressure on these new companies will further put them in the red. Tesla can afford some short term pain if it means that some of these upstarts will go out of business. Of course as a result of higher interest rates, demand is down as well, but I still believe this strategy will work out best for Tesla.

 

[RU Cheese]

Price cuts are never good idea. Provides near term lift but intensifies competitive pricing dynamics.

 

[jtung230]

Camry's drive like marshmallows. Even the newer ones. The accord won't ever be mistaken for a sports car, but at least you have a reasonable idea what the car is doing on center.

And their interior finishes at that price range will be much better than Tesla.

 

[okieKnight908]

Work just gave us a XC60 recharge. Could anyone with experience with using both the ChargePoint Home Flex and JuiceBox recommend one over the other?

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

Price cuts are never good idea. Provides near term lift but intensifies competitive pricing dynamics.

Who's best positioned to thrive/survive competitive pricing dynamics in the short term?

The long term trend for new technology is price declines while simultaneously, margins grow. Economies of scale. It's happened in the past.

 

[T2Kplus20]

Who's best positioned to thrive/survive competitive pricing dynamics in the short term?

The long term trend for new technology is price declines while simultaneously, margins grow. Economies of scale. It's happened in the past.

Funny to see the blind hatred for Tesla and EM still going strong on this site.

 

[jtung230]

Funny to see the blind hatred for Tesla and EM still going strong on this site.

blind To the fact that demand has peaked. Blind to the fact it still needs government assistance to compete. Blind to the fact that it’s really a car company. Blind to the fact ”self driving” is all BS.

 

[mildone]

Camry's drive like marshmallows. Even the newer ones. The accord won't ever be mistaken for a sports car, but at least you have a reasonable idea what the car is doing on center.

What fun is that?

My MS3 is a FWD car with nasty torque-steer where you learn, hopefully from the mistakes of others before you, to always have two hands firmly on the wheel on highway entry ramps or anywhere else when going FOT. I always do and it has saved me from slamming into a guard rail, or tree, or traffic more than once. 😀

Handling problems are just part of the fun - a challenge to master. Switching to wider wheels and grippier tires and a KW V3 suspension with a more neutral alignment (better for quick turn-in) helped a little with the torque-steer. Although now it tramlines and can get a little floaty on center. Tire wear is down, though.

And 911s are infamous for their tendency to snap oversteer. Pure fun.

Also, didn‘t Lotus‘s source Camry engines for their sports cars for decades? So bring on that garbage-handling Camry and let the fun begin.