OT: Electric vehicles
- Thread starter BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap
- Start date
I just read the petition. Sounds like the simple fix would be classified model Y as a SUV.
This is wrong.
The new EV tax credit appears to be based on how much lobbying money has been thrown at lawmakers by legacy auto.
Lawmakers can play with terms like "SUV" because there is no clear definition.
The blowjob to hybrids is an abomination.
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I don't want to turn this thread in a CE direction, but Tesla is between a rock and a hard place here. EM has angered the EV party with the Twitter stuff, and the other party is in the pocket of the ICE party (for the most part).
I agree it sucks. Properly done, tax and legislative policy should foster promotion of EVs due to their lower emissions. That said, however, there are plenty of people who run mostly on the EV side with PH Hybrids-we do with our 41 mile range Volvo S60, and I think that @OntheBanks does the same with his hybrid Escape.
Sounds like yet another reason Elon should step down from a leadership role at Tesla (along with Twitter). He should've lobbied harder but didn't.
At the current TSLA price, I want to buy some shares. But after Elon's monumental Twitter blunders, I have no faith in his leadership anymore. If not for his recent childish brain-fart behavior, I'd probably grab 1000 shares. Now I'm thinking far less, or none.
On the bright side, it seems Buffett does unless it's him doing market manipulation. Vanguard and Blackrock seem okay with Musk, too, at the moment. But they obviously have vastly more risk tolerance than most individuals.
What to do... what to do...
Guess this would've been more appropriate in the stocks thread. Sorry.
Salacious story, but shows just how safe Telsa vehicles are. The driver has now been charged with attempted murder. This happened about 20 miles from San Francisco. Everyone survived a 250 plunge off the cliff.
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Isn't it "attempted murder", since all occupants survived? The 2 child occupants already discharged from hospital.
Safest cars on the planet. So glad I can drive my family in one.
Seems like EVs had more government assistance than hybrids to date. Did Prius ever get tax credits?
With all due respect, none what Elon is doing is relevant with this legislation. This is about $ and the inability of legacy auto to produce profitable EVs at scale. They know it, and the congressmen in their pocket know it too. I'm sure the UAW and dealership network have their claws in this as well. The hybrid blowjob allows legacy auto to cling to their ICE heritage when it comes to manufacturing, still make a profit, and stall innovation.
And to be crystal clear, I was for NO rebate whatsoever on EVs. This is the worst of both worlds.
Internal Revenue Service is inviting consumers to share comments on the electric vehicle tax credit qualifications.
https://www.teslarati.com/irs-invites-consumers-to-comment-on-ev-tax-credit-qualifications/
https://www.teslarati.com/irs-invites-consumers-to-comment-on-ev-tax-credit-qualifications/
Except for them braking for no good reason or driving into the back of emergency vehicles, etc.
I'm happy that the folks in that car survived. They were extremely lucky.
It's uplifting news versus all the "mom killed toddler and dumped him in landfill" depressing stories which is stuff I work hard to avoid seeing. So thanks for posting it.
I'm gonna share my opinion that there should be EV infrastructure tax credits, and they should cease all automobile purchase tax credits. Build out the infrastructure first. Then push the adoption.
Given the time it takes to charge, the interstates need even more public chargers than gas pumps. And that's not gonna happen without some financial incentive.
And condos and apartments and other housing where it's not possible for a resident to have their own charger need to be incentivized to provide enough chargers for all their occupants (or at least for all their available parking places).
I think rebates make sense with income limits, for example, single people making less than $75K/year or married at $150K/year. Many people buying Teslas, F150 Lightnings, etc have the money and don't need the incentive. It played a small part in our decision to buy, but we would have bought one absent the rebate. As for EM, he doesn't seem like one who wants the "play the game" by "the rules," and I find that admirable. However, investors may not find it so admirable. There are many factors at play which you cited, but EM is not helping "his" cause.
Much like TSLA in it's early years, when it also benefited from subsidies.
In time the legacies will be profitable in EV. GM expected in 2025.
Yes. But what swings it in favor of infrastructure spending is that purchase rebates just get absorbed by manufacturers who respond to them by raising prices. Which actually discourages adoption, or at least it makes it an expensive net no change to adoption which is a waste of our tax dollars.
I have a larger concern which is that all the investment in BEVs and BEV infrastructure might wind up wasted if a better automotive energy technology comes along. But at this point, that seems unlikely for a while.
But the legacies are investing Billions. Now do they need that money in order to convert to EV? No, but they might not do it otherwise.
And once these legacies are pumping out EV cars the infrastructure will follow.
Respectfully disagree. Legacy is forcing the dealers to provide infrastructure to support the EV business. Prices are going up due to cost going up, not because of tax credits. Tesla used up all the tax credits a while back and they continue to raise prices.
There was never a "Tesla only" subsidy. The American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009 under the Obama administration was was available for any EV.
Legacy auto had 13 years to get their shit together. What have they been doing? There's no demand shortage. You're overlooking the elephant in the room....they can't make a profitable, scalable EV.
He didn't say it was Tesla only.
There's definitely been a demand shortage.
GM expects to be profitable by 2025.
The idea that only Tesla can be profitable in EV is silly.
It will take less time to ramp up production of EVs than it will take to build infrastructure. That's why infrastructure should be subsidized and kicked into high gear over car purchase subsidies.
The national grid needs to be rebuilt and expanded. The grid doesn't have the capacity for increased demand of EV charging.
For those who have a single family home or a townhouse/condo with a garage. And enough amperage in their house. The ability to charge needs to be ubiquitous and accessible to all drivers in urban/suburban areas for this to work out. That's going to take years and years. If the ability to charge doesn't get ahead, or even keep up with the rate of adoption of EV, the uptake on EV will slow because of the inconvenience.
Exactly. Getting infrastructure built up early will help the pace of adoption continue to accelerate. Whereas infrastructure problems, depending on the severity, could cause a strong push back from consumers that could slow adoption.
that’s why I say majority. I still think the primary reasons people are not adopting EVs arecost and misinformation. The cost is a real issue. Misinformation is just pushed by special interest.
GM has mastered the long term proclamation. If you think reaching profitable, scale production is a foregone conclusion, you're sadly mistaken. Tesla barely squeaked by during the model 3 ramp in 2017. Rivian and Lucid are teetering on a knife edge, as are several Chinese EV makers.
GM makes billions on ICE vehicles which will fund their transition to EV.
For the big legacies, ala GM, F, Toyota, it really is a foregone conclusion.
Rivian, Lucid? Those companies will need big money backers, which they do have, but certainly less of a certainty that they pull it off.
And that is where the majority of sales will go until the charging infrastructure is built.
Imagine companies will build it for their workers so people can charge while at work.
Gov't vehicles.
It won't need to be like ICE where we need gas stations all over the place.
One of my office locations has them already. 12 charging spors for a parking lot that holds hundreds of cars. And it's the same 12 cars that park in them everyday, the whole day. There will need to be a cultural shift in terms of etiquette regarding charging spots. Not saying this is an obstacle to adoption, but it's def going to require ppl to be more considerate of others.
100%. How we "refuel" our vehicles will need to change.
And your company will probably need to install more chargers too.
Do you know the maker of the charging system?
Cost plus folks w/no access to at-home charging. Huge numbers of people live in circumstances where at-home charging is impossible.
What misinformation is there?
What misinformation? EVs still do not meet the needs for the majority of people.
You yourself said you need an ICE. That's not a strict EV setup, either.
