I remember people realist the Tesla Model X for 20k+ when it first came out. It’s just a qestion of how badly you want it asap.
OT: Electric vehicles
- Thread starter BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap
- Start date
That's nice and all, but the culprit in this tale is the dealership, not Ford. The Lightning way oversold its its build capacity and dealerships are profiting off the demand.
I see you're still bitter about losing your shirt trying to short Tesla. How many lawsuits has Tesla filed? A whopping total of 2! When you post crap like this, you look like a fool.
Both against customers who were caught lying about "faulty brakes" and "spontaneous unintended acceleration". These 2 individuals did a lot more than give a bad review. When you F- up and cause an accident, blame the car, smear the company. Tesla has every right to defend itself against false accusations and propaganda. If someone came to your place of business or home holding up signs falsely slandering you, would you just take it?
Appreciate the response. However, if it were just growing pains, I'd be less frustrated with that. All that takes is an email saying "we're sorry, we know the customer experience is less than perfect, and we're working on changing things/ sorting out our EDD algorithms". My problem is that Tesla has purposefully structured itself this way because they simply feel that they can get away with offering shit service. They seem to have no interest in allocating resources to fix this, and consequently there are more and more unhappy customers and fewer and fewer happy ones. To give one of dozens of examples I've read this last week, someone came to pick up their Model Y, to find it filthy, splattered with mud, and with mud footprints in the driver's well. They asked that it be cleaned, which it begrudgingly was. This took another two hours. When the car was finally "ready", the new owner drove it home, and because the window was still dirty, he went to spray the window only to find there was no washer fluid in the well! He actually had to pull over at a gas station 5 mins from the dealer to buy some! And a week later the car was back at Tesla anyway because of a number of problems. That's just bullshit. You don't grow a company with service like that.
I've had a Model Y and Model 3 home for the weekend, and they're both awesome cars to drive. Getting basic things right, like service and support, shouldn't be difficult for Tesla. But they're screwing the pooch here, and in 6 months there will be real choices for EV buyers. Personally, I think they need to get rid of Musk asap. He's become a drag on the company...
You're 100% right about Tesla needing to improve customer service. As you said, a simple email goes a long way. My buying experience was seamless. I also had mobile service come to my house once. Also a great experience.
You're 100% wrong about more choices in 6 months and replacing Elon. It takes a long time to ramp production of a new technology, and on top of that, throw in things like battery and chip shortages. The EV landscape will look very similar to todays in 6 months. No one is going from 2K units/month to 100K/month in 6 months. 2 years from now, we'll hopefully see some significant production out of the other EV players. But remember, while other auto manufacturers are growing, Tesla will be growing faster.
As for Elon, you don't replace the most effective engineer on the planet. That's just a nonsensical comment brought on by frustration or ignorance. He's an accelerator, not a drag.
Couldn't disagree more. Firstly, the man's not even an engineer, let alone "the most effective engineer on the planet." I think his degree's in economics, no?
He's very good at taking credit for the work of others, which is an integral entrepreneur skill, but he's been a drag on Tesla for years. Let's look at the facts.
1. He didn't found Tesla, much as he likes to claim he did. Salient note: he's a liar.
2. The tech and vision that drove the Roadster came from Eberhard and Tarpenning. The battery tech vision and development was all J.B. Straubel. Musk helped with a marketing vision, and obviously funding, but he engineered nothing.
3. The Model S was built under the vision and direction of Peter Rawlinson.
4. The Model X had significant Musk input along the lines of "I want X, Y, and Z." His main insistence was the falcon wing doors, which have been the primary point of failure/maintenance for the Y.
5. The insistence to pursue FSD with only cameras was Musk's. His understanding of this was so limited that, as the NYT documents, his major argument for this was that "humans can drive with only their eyes, so computers can too." Musk of course promised that FSD (that is, Full Self Driving) would be ready in
I could go on, but this summarizes things. Tesla has succeeded despite Musk, not because of him. That's doubly true since 2017 or so, when the idea of a mass market EV was put behind the project of trying to develop tech to the dreamworld specifications of a CEO who listened only to himself.
You don't sound like someone that wants a Tesla. To me you sound like someone that shorts Tesla.
Not an engineer? Ok. Your list is straight out of the TSLAQ playbook. It's now obvious you don't have a Tesla reservation and you're whole customer service story is bullshit. You're likely a bitter TSLAQ moron that bet against the most accomplished engineer in the world and lost their shirt. Close that short position. Good luck with your Hyundai
I have a Tesla Reservation. RN1156*****. And my story is true, thanks. But rather than trying to refute these points, you're just putting your fingers in your ears and shouting. This is what people do when they lose arguments. I'll give my MYLR a chance, but Tesla has done nothing to show me they value my business, and I'm one of many, many pissed of owners or order holders. Deal with it.
...and right on queue
https://wtvbam.com/2021/12/16/paris-crash-tesla-driver-says-car-accelerated-on-its-own-lawyer/
"He (the taxi driver) has explained to the police officers that the car had accelerated on its own and that he did not succeed in activating the brakes, the brakes did not work despite his best efforts,” lawyer Sarah Saldmann told Reuters late on Wednesday.
Point of order - not to detract from your excellent post - but I believe the best engineers are the ones who gave up on engineering in college due to the Education Machine's insidious demands that you actually, ya know, go to class and shit and switch to economics.
They cannot deal with it. Belly, and a couple others here, are Tesla/Musk cultists who simply cannot accept any criticism of Tesla or Musk. And they also cannot tolerate any suggestion that others will compete with Tesla. This has been demonstrated, by their own extremely negative responses to perfectly reasonable posts, throughout the thread.
Which is why a bunch of us "car people" who like all things automotive don't take them seriously. Their worship is mildly irritating at times, but basically harmless if you just ignore them or tease them about it.
I don't know if Musk leaving Tesla would be good or not (although I won't be surprised if he gets bored at some point and steps away). I don't really have anything against him or Tesla, although I'm not interested in their products at the moment (the prototype of the new Roadster does interest me, but it's not a product yet and for sports cars, I would prefer an ICE anyway).
But I would be pissed off about the situation you're going through, too, if I were you. I'd be pissed off at any manufacturer or dealership that treated me that way.
It's funny that you're so butt-hurt over somebody else honestly discussing their negative experience with Tesla.
It's even funnier that you're basically echoing all that's bad about Tesla's attitude...
New Zealander: "I'm not having a great experience with Tesla and my car order."
Tesla: "Stop whining. You're enormously privileged to be allowed to order a Tesla."
Belly: "Yeah, you insulted Musk, you aren't worthy of a Tesla, get a Hyundai."
🤣
For someone who portrays themself as very knowledgeable (or at least opinionated) about Musk you are wrong in the very first paragraph. He received BS degrees in Physics and Economics (Wharton) from UPenn. He was then accepted to Stanford for a PhD in Material Sciences, but recognized that the newly emerging internet was the place to be and dropped out to shortly thereafter earn a fortune with Paypal, which he then used to fund Tesla and SpaceX.
Eberhard's total contribution to founding Tesla was to register the name in July 2003 with the idea of starting an electric car company. Nothing happened for six months until Musk funded the enterprise and became its Chairman. There would be no Tesla without Musk.
Ok, so majors in Economics AND Physics. Great. Also two days at Stanford? I know that; two days anywhere doesn't impress me.
You're plainly incorrect about the degree of Eberhard's contribution, but I more or less agree with you that Tesla wouldn't have made it without Musk. But that's also true of the Obama administration's Tesla bailout, the California Emissions credits, etc., etc. He's one part of a multi-faceted success. An important part, but by no means the only (or even most important) part.
Even if Musk wasn't there, I have enough faith in the venture capital clusters around Sand Hill Road to be confident that EV startups like Tesla would have funding elsewhere. But Musk did it and good for him. It's on his resume. But it's 2021 now, and Tesla is a poorly led, disorganized mess. And that annoys me because they shouldn't be.
You have poor memory Mil. Don't you remember you lauding over my previous post in this thread about the pluses and minuses of my Model Y experience? Do you remember another post I made in this thread saying I have a reservation for the Lighting? It is just illogical to me someone would hate a company and the CEO so much yet want to buy their product.
I appreciate the post, and you're utterly right about the cult-like aspects of Tesla fans. Funnily, I find the majority of the most hard core ones don't actually own a Tesla! Not all of them, obviously. I'm similar to the people you describe here. I like cars. I'm still looking forward to owning a Tesla, but I have no emotional or personal investment in the brand, and I'll evaluate it as I do with all significant purchases (especially automotive ones). Hopefully, the car will be so awesome that the crap-ness of being a Tesla customer will fade. If not, an R1S or a Mach E or E-Tron or the rumored Lucid Gravity will all make for a compelling switch.
Tesla was never bailed out. More bs.
Elon figured out how to land rockets, but he's not an engineer, right?
You've clearly never listened to the man speak. If you did, you'd know he has complete knowledge of every specific detail of hardware and software, whether it's a rocket or a car.
And the narrator of your Hyundai review prefers Ford's autonomous system over Tesla's? Come on. Ford's autonomous system can't handle curves on a highway.
You're a clown. Close the short. Buy the Hyundai.
It's true, actually, that I do have a poor memory. But I always judge each post on it's own merit.
I don't see hatred from @Tararua. I see dislike maybe, and definitely unhappiness over the current situation.
But even so, I don't think it's illogical for someone to dislike, or even hate, a CEO and still buy products from that company. To not do so, when the product is what one thinks one wants, is cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.
I'll retract the fanboi comment as it probably doesn't apply to you. Unless the Musk/Tesla propaganda machine has converted you since your earlier balanced post about your experience. 😉
But I still think the bit about shorting Tesla was entirely unwarranted. People who make important financial decisions based on emotional attachments (or detachment) have a fool for a financial advisor. It's entirely possible, maybe even common, for a CEO (not Musk necessarily, but any CEO) to be a complete ass while his business succeeds.
What should impress you then is -
1) He was accepted to a PhD program at Stanford in the Sciences.
2) He had the balls to leave there and enter a brand new field to make his fortune and pursue his dreams.
After 2 days at Stanford, Musk went to the dean to explain that he was leaving and why. He ended by asking if he could be viewed favorably for readmission should he be back. The dean responded that they would never speak again, and they haven't.
Some people can see and acknowledge greatness, some can't.
Lol, this is just cultism. You're so emotionally invested in the BS your fanboi community spins about Musk that any correction to that triggers genuine rage and emotional trauma. Tesla was bailed out in 2010. You can find the documents online. Thanks to California's laws, Tesla was making near $35K per Model S in emisisons credits through their most tenuous years. Without that, they're toast. Of course, to thank CA for all the support, Musk said "**** you" and moved to Texas.
Now seriously, ask yourself this: do you think that your exploding with rage at anyone who dares to puncture your Tesla worship is actually good for Tesla as a company? Do you think it will make normal people more keen to buy Teslas? Jesus, you lunatics need to listen to yourselves at times. You're a frothing cult.
Some people feel compelled to worship other people, and/or gods. Some people don't.
Luckily for me I've never believed in god nor the infallibility of my fellow humans, but thanks for this thoughtful response to my post.
I'm not quite sure how to break this to you without hurting you deeply, but He didn't figure out how to land rockets. That's like saying that Bill Gates created Windows or Al Gore invented the internet. Musk paid people to figure this out. Good for him. But he didn't figure this out himself any more than the Chairman of Lockheed figured out stealth technology.
And I've heard him speak. He's dramatically unimpressive. As an academic, I know a bit about speaking in public, and the guy is a snoozefest. That's fine. It's not his forte. But again, why is your identity so tied up in deifying this guy?
No, I think people have different definitions or criteria for judging "greatness". Greatness to me includes people who actually invent or produce or discover things. think Katalin Kariko and mRNA, or James Allison's work on immunotherapy. Or, should it be proved right, Caltech's Konstantin Batygin and his hypothesis regarding Planet 9. I also like those who advance the public good, make great art, make the world a better place. Musk? He deserves some credit for investing in Tesla before others would and thus advancing EVs. Does that make him "great"? No, unless the term is used very loosely...
It's a subtle but important distinction, but I didn't say "believe". I said "worship". For example, one can believe in God without worshiping God. Personally, I neither believe nor disbelieve in God or humans. Belief just isn't a big part of my thought process.
You said "greatness". I don't view any CEO as having achieved "greatness" in life due to their business work. For me, greatness, as applied to any person, is reserved for people who sacrifice something for the benefit of others.
A person walking down the street that gives their life to save a child from being hit by a car? In that moment, that's greatness. A person that risks their life to save a dog from drowning in a flood? An act of greatness.
Running a business, no matter how successful? Not greatness.
Well, if one doesn't believe in something then they certainly can't worship it.
Now you're acting the fool, arguing a narrow definition of greatness just to argue. Tedious.
Willie Mays was not a great baseball player? Shakespeare was not a great writer? Darwin was not a great naturalist? Not one of them sacrificed anything for the benefit of others as you so narrowly define the concept.
Musk is a great business entrepreneur and visionary, whether you can see it or not.
Wrong. When you're a start-up aerospace business, the best and brightest are already working elsewhere. Who did Elon pay to engineer reusable rockets? Why didn't rockets land prior to SpaceX? Where's your evidence to support your claim?
Same goes for your Tesla bailout claim. Never happened. Ford and Tesla are the only American auto manufacturers never to declare bankruptcy. Put up.
You're a troll and your whole story is bullshit.
Usually this nonsense is a reference to the big loan Tesla took out from the Department of Energy. It was paid back in full ahead of time.
Tesla repays $465 million government green energy loan ahead of schedule
Otherwise, it is the tax credits Tesla directly (or its customers) has received. I don't feel like posting here again the massive subsidies fossil fuel companies receive to artificially suppress the cost of gasoline we are paying.
The guy's a troll. Zero chance he has a Tesla reservation. Likely an alt account. Real winner.
You are right. I mean no other companies get bad reviews that are not accurate. Poor Tesla is the victim here. While they are at it, they should review all the Tesla content and see what’s accurate and take down all the false info. I better be careful or I might get sued by Tesla.
"People who become cultists are most often lacking important qualities in their life to make them feel comfortable and accepted."
From Tesla's own website:
Tesla gets loan approval from US Department of Energy
June 23, 2009
SAN CARLOS, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE) —Tesla Motors has received approval for about $465 million in low-interest loans from the US Department of Energy to accelerate the production of affordable, fuel-efficient electric vehicles.
I differentiate between the use of “great” and the use of the term “greatness” as applied to people.
Lots of stuff is great. Michael Jordan was great. The people you mentioned were great. The homemade Stromboli I had for dinner last night was great, if I don’t say so myself.
Greatness is something different, something more than just the state of being great, to me. I’m not saying this to argue. I’m saying it because it’s what I think.
IMO, if we start labeling people like Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Musk, etc. as examples of greatness, we devalue greatness. They combined intelligence, hard work, and great timing to seize opportunities and build successful businesses. That’s great. But those Individuals aren’t examples of greatness. Not to me.
