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OT: Gavin Wimsatt acclimating well to Kentucky Football

I don’t think it’s as much about Gavin as you think. At least in my case, it bothers me when folks like Al call Gavin a potential Heisman candidate or Plum indicates that Gavin’s stats are borderline RU hall of fame caliber because I think it does a disservice to other great RU players on a comparative basis - Kyle being at the top of the list.

The only way to rationalize anything “great” about Gavin’s stats is to look at them completely out of context and say “wow” he rushed for 11 TDs - that’s a record for an RU QB. He had even more that Kyle who led the BIG in rushing as a RB. “Wow!!!” I think that view is very unfair to the likes of KM. The reality is that in all likelihood Gavin was given those cream puff carries from the 1 and the red zone attempts vs. Wagner to boost his confidence and deflect attention away from the areas where he struggled. The suggestion that teams like Indiana, VTech, Miami, etc. where those TDs from the 1 were scored were so focused on stopping Kyle that a strategy of using Gavin instead was needed there is ridiculous. Kyle’s stats do not lie. There is no reason to believe he couldn’t have converted those 8 TDs. Zero. So yeah - at least for my part - I find the defenses of Gavin as an RU star indirectly insulting to other guys like KM which really bothers me.
No matter how much you and others try to discount Gavin’s accomplishments, you can’t change the basic facts of what he achieved. The strides the team has made since 2020, have been tremendous thx in large part to Gavin and the rest of the team, who worked tremendously hard, to bring us to where we are. And Schiano is thankful for his achievements.

Thanks in large part to Gavin’s efforts, Rutgers was a winning team last year, despite playing one of the most difficult schedules in school history.
Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, Wisconsin, and Iowa are significantly better capitalized than Rutgers, but we played competitively with all of them, until the fourth quarter, when we ran out of gas.

That we hadn’t had a winning record in 9 years, speaks to the significance of this achievement. Gavin overcame his poor passing, to win the winnable games. That’s what’s most important. And this was the first year where he was the full time quarterback.

But it should also be noted that the previously poor talent level in Rutgers WR and TE receiving corps were also a factor in Gavin’s poor passing.

Nevertheless, Gavin was clutch in stressful situations making key passes to win the Michigan State and Miami games.

At the end of the day, Gavin was a transitional quarterback. He played a huge role in transitioning Rutgers from a losing program to a winning program. Last season was one of the best in school history, especially when you consider the difficulty of the schedule.

Today, Rutgers has enough talent to beat any team on any given day. And the talent level is only getting better.

But more importantly, the culture that has been built, has prepared us to maximize our results. As Captain, Gavin played an outsized role in establishing that.
 
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I think you’re getting a little too emotional . I went back and read the thread and no one has insulted KM. No one !
Everyone would tell you he’s great and a hall of famer if his Rutgers career ended today . Relax ! a message board ! You’re dreaming up ways to get “ bothered”
Bottom line was Gavin was serviceable. He wasn’t really good, but he was good by Rutgers standards .

I said indirect. I never said anyone directly insulted Kyle (or anyone else) nor did I suggest that anyone said Kyle wasn’t great. I stated my opinion that classifying Gavin as a “Rutgers All Star” takes away from the significance of those players around him, like Kyle, who truly were the stars on last year’s team. Again - this is an opinion - and I recognize you and others may not share it. I only explained it in response to the poster who said the focus was on attacking Gavin - at least in my case it’s definitely not. I actually don’t disagree with what you just said. Gavin avoided turnovers which made him serviceable by RU standards last season and as Al just put it - a perfectly fine transitional QB. Thats how he should be remembered. Not as an “RU star” nor as a future Heisman candidate that we let go. It’s those things I disagree with.

But then look, I don’t even consider Gary Nova a “Rutgers All Star” and his resume would have a much better argument than Gavin’s (in large part thanks to Michael Burton and our other unsung hero blockers).
 
No matter how much you and others try to discount Gavin’s accomplishments, you can’t change the basic facts of what he achieved. The strides the team has made since 2020, have been tremendous thx in large part to Gavin and the rest of the team, who worked tremendously hard, to bring us to where we are. And Schiano is thankful for his achievements.

Thanks in large part to Gavin’s efforts, Rutgers was a winning team last year, despite playing one of the most difficult schedules in school history.
Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, Wisconsin, and Iowa are significantly better capitalized than Rutgers, but we played competitively with all of them, until the fourth quarter, when we ran out of gas.

That we hadn’t had a winning record in 9 years, speaks to the significance of this achievement. Gavin overcame his poor passing, to win the winnable games. That’s what’s most important. And this was the first year where he was the full time quarterback.

But it should also be noted that the previously poor talent level in Rutgers WR and TE receiving corps were also a factor in Gavin’s poor passing.

Nevertheless, Gavin was clutch in stressful situations making key passes to win the Michigan State and Miami games.

At the end of the day, Gavin was a transitional quarterback. He played a huge role in transitioning Rutgers from a losing program to a winning program. Last season was one of the best in school history, especially when you consider the difficulty of the schedule.

Today, Rutgers has enough talent to beat any team on any given day. And the talent level is only getting better.

But more importantly, the culture that has been built, has prepared us to maximize our results. As Captain, Gavin played an outsized role in establishing that.

Except I’m not disputing any of what you just said. Nobody really is. That is not the same thing as classifying Gavin as an “RU all star” or a future Heisman candidate though.
 
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Yes - 100%. The off court stuff stands out as the worst part of Flood’s tenure and the biggest reason he failed as a head coach.

But at the end of the day, Flood still led RU to an 8-5 record in its inaugural year in the BIG. That team currently stands as the only RU team yet to win a road game over a bowl team (Maryland). They also beat an 8 win Navy team on the road. That team also has the best brand name win to date - beating Michigan. And they beat UNC in a bowl game. Any and all excuses Plum might make to discount the role that Flood played in the success that season (and/or suggest that RU could’ve done even better with a different coach) would be exactly the same as the arguments Whitebus and others are making about RU getting 7 wins despite all of Gavin’s shortcomings. Plum is saying it doesn’t matter - the team still did it so Wimsatt gets credit. Shouldn’t this same logic then apply for Flood? I’m saying Plum can’t have his cake and eat it too on this. Either both are true or neither.
when RU first joined the big 10, a few non-RU fans asked how he thought RU would do...they were a bit surprised when I said I expected them to do ok

the opinion was based on our having a seasoned, multiyear qb, which I felt was essential....and yes, we had the winning season..... our qb crapped the bed against PU, unfortunately, if he had not, would have been even better
 
Are you Gavins bro? Prop up fan. So now you are admitting Ray sucked and Gavin was the best Rutgers QB ever. Got it. Don't even reply. You have become a complete idiot because you love Gavin. What a dope!
Now you are just wasting people's time !
all this discussion seems to point out that, over the years, RU has had, either bad quarterbacks, or a good quarterback with little offensive help to have winning play

trying to decide between Lucas, Wimsatt, NoVA, and any others, would be tough based on the lack of talent to put around them...

it is a fairer argument deciding which head coach was better, or worse.....we can say that Greg demanded things from the university that helped put RU in the right direction, something other coaches could not do...
 
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I said indirect. I never said anyone directly insulted Kyle (or anyone else) nor did I suggest that anyone said Kyle wasn’t great. I stated my opinion that classifying Gavin as a “Rutgers All Star” takes away from the significance of those players around him, like Kyle, who truly were the stars on last year’s team. Again - this is an opinion - and I recognize you and others may not share it. I only explained it in response to the poster who said the focus was on attacking Gavin - at least in my case it’s definitely not. I actually don’t disagree with what you just said. Gavin avoided turnovers which made him serviceable by RU standards last season and as Al just put it - a perfectly fine transitional QB. Thats how he should be remembered. Not as an “RU star” nor as a future Heisman candidate that we let go. It’s those things I disagree with.

But then look, I don’t even consider Gary Nova a “Rutgers All Star” and his resume would have a much better argument than Gavin’s (in large part thanks to Michael Burton and our other unsung hero blockers).
But nova was a “Rutgers all star”. He will be in our Hall of Fame eventually. .l
I get it you want better . But we need to embrace our history and realize a guy like grunniger is in our hall of fame . Do you think Fred was a good AD? Yes or no ?
This is the third time I am asking you this . You didn’t answer the first two times. Maybe you didn’t see it…so looking forward to your response.
 
But nova was a “Rutgers all star”. He will be in our Hall of Fame eventually. .l
I get it you want better . But we need to embrace our history and realize a guy like grunniger is in our hall of fame . Do you think Fred was a good AD? Yes or no ?
This is the third time I am asking you this . You didn’t answer the first two times. Maybe you didn’t see it…so looking forward to your response.

Sorry I’m not ignoring. Just before my time.

I understand where you are coming from on Nova and your probably right that he will get inducted to the hall of fame one day. I don’t agree on the premise that a QB has to make that list (which would be the reasoning). As far as I’m concerned, Rutgers hasn’t had a truly “great” QB in my lifetime. Caroo and Kyle meet my definition of “great” Rutgers football players. Nova had his moments - but he also made terrible decisions under pressure. He also had excellent blocking from a decent OL and Burton and Kroft. Laviano had a lot less help in that department and still put up pretty good numbers in the same system (don’t get me started on the following year - only a special kind of moron like Ash would thrust a pocket passing QB recruited to play in traditional pro style system right into a dual threat scheme). The D was really the main problem in 2015 - blame on Lav was misplaced in my opinion. And certainly Laviano was no all star, correct?
 
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when RU first joined the big 10, a few non-RU fans asked how he thought RU would do...they were a bit surprised when I said I expected them to do ok

the opinion was based on our having a seasoned, multiyear qb, which I felt was essential....and yes, we had the winning season..... our qb crapped the bed against PU, unfortunately, if he had not, would have been even better
They still had to come all the way down the field for a TD, not a FG, to take it.

You win together and you lose together.
 
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Gavin lost his job to a guy that was losing his job in Minnesota...but he's a Hall of Famer? Sometimes people get so caught up in defending their public statements they are willing to twist logic into a pretzel and toss common sense to the wind.

Example of pretzel logic: Gavin played for one of the best teams, therefore Gavin was one of the best players at his position. That same statement could be made for the absolute worst player on the team at their position. Actually, it's probably true that Gavin was that player, statistically the worst player at his position among the starters for the team.

Pride is one of the seven deadly sins.
 
when RU first joined the big 10, a few non-RU fans asked how he thought RU would do...they were a bit surprised when I said I expected them to do ok

the opinion was based on our having a seasoned, multiyear qb, which I felt was essential....and yes, we had the winning season..... our qb crapped the bed against PU, unfortunately, if he had not, would have been even better
Our QB was also awesome against Michigan that year . You win some, you lose some
 
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Our QB was also awesome against Michigan that year . You win some, you lose some

He was hot and cold his whole career. Just the way it was and mostly it was correlated to the pressure the opponent was able to put on him. Burton’s blocking on pass protection can’t be emphasized enough. In my opinion, Nova would’ve struggled a lot without him.

Wimsatt was, in a sense, a polar opposite. Pressure didn’t seem to impact his game much, but that was probably because he was programmed to throw it away as soon as a defender started towards him. Regardless - having a ton of time didn’t seem to help Wimsatt that much.
 
Wishing Gavin all the best. He's a great athlete with upside.

If you want to understand why Athan is starting for Ciarocca go back and watch what Minnesota did to us a couple of years ago. The run game and Defense killed us but the QB made a lot of high percentage easy throws. He used his feet for first downs too. There may have been an issue with making correct reads but we don't know that. Everyone can act like they know but you don't.

Rooting for Gavin but now not nearly as much as I will be for Athan. Many fans will always hate on the starting QB. Same guys every year. Lmao
 
Gavin lost his job to a guy that was losing his job in Minnesota...but he's a Hall of Famer? Sometimes people get so caught up in defending their public statements they are willing to twist logic into a pretzel and toss common sense to the wind.

Example of pretzel logic: Gavin played for one of the best teams, therefore Gavin was one of the best players at his position. That same statement could be made for the absolute worst player on the team at their position. Actually, it's probably true that Gavin was that player, statistically the worst player at his position among the starters for the team.

Pride is one of the seven deadly sins.
Lucas is a hall of famer and he was benched and booed throughout his career . He never played a full season .
Nova was awful at times and was benched. He too is going to be a hall of famer
The point is that wimsatt was servicable and a good QB by Rutgers crappy standards
 
He was hot and cold his whole career. Just the way it was and mostly it was correlated to the pressure the opponent was able to put on him. Burton’s blocking on pass protection can’t be emphasized enough. In my opinion, Nova would’ve struggled a lot without him.

Wimsatt was, in a sense, a polar opposite. Pressure didn’t seem to impact his game much, but that was probably because he was programmed to throw it away as soon as a defender started towards him. Regardless - having a ton of time didn’t seem to help Wimsatt that much.
Yep and he was Rutgers all star and nova is a future hall of famer
 
Yep and he was Rutgers all star and nova is a future hall of famer

Huh? The point is the only way that’s true is if you are saying you HAVE to select a QB as an All Star. You keep saying by Rutgers standards they are stars, but many true RU stars have been drafted by the NFL for other positions. Neither of them belong in this category and Wimsatt falls way below Nova in my opinion. If you had to take one of them - would you pick Wimsatt to be our QB over Nova? Vedral? Laviano? In the least, Wimsatt doesn’t clearly separate himself as better than any starter in recent memory and to your point - the bar isn’t very high. To me that just means none of them are stars. I don’t understand how you can classify GW as an all star and also say he is only servicable at the same time.
 
Lucas is a hall of famer and he was benched and booed throughout his career . He never played a full season .
Nova was awful at times and was benched. He too is going to be a hall of famer
The point is that wimsatt was servicable and a good QB by Rutgers crappy standards

Lucas was before my time.

I’ve already stated my view as to why I don’t consider Nova a true all star, but by all counts he has a much better hall of fame case than Wimsatt. 8-5 team with wins @ Maryland (Nova 347 yards passing and 4 TDs), Michigan (brand name win - he threw for over 400 yards) and bowl win over UNC (2 TDs - 184 yards). Best RU season in the BIG by far and Nova was directly responsible for leading us to our 3 best wins that season presented above. Nova racked up 2,851 passing yards that season. Even if you combine Gavin’s rushing and passing yards - he was only at 2,232. Nova had 25 TDs compared to 20 for Gavin. The only thing Nova did worse was turn the ball over a few more times but that’s just because he had more of a green light to read the offense.
 
Lucas was before my time.

I’ve already stated my view as to why I don’t consider Nova a true all star, but by all counts he has a much better hall of fame case than Wimsatt. 8-5 team with wins @ Maryland (Nova 347 yards passing and 4 TDs), Michigan (brand name win - he threw for over 400 yards) and bowl win over UNC (2 TDs - 184 yards). Best RU season in the BIG by far and Nova was directly responsible for leading us to our 3 best wins that season presented above. Nova racked up 2,851 passing yards that season. Even if you combine Gavin’s rushing and passing yards - he was only at 2,232. Nova had 25 TDs compared to 20 for Gavin. The only thing Nova did worse was turn the ball over a few more times but that’s just because he had more of a green light to read the offense.
Nova is a Rutgers hall of famer . Not sure why you are arguing or feel the need to make a case.
It’s a no doubter
 
Nova is a Rutgers hall of famer . Not sure why you are arguing or feel the need to make a case.
It’s a no doubter

I already explained. I don’t consider him in the same category as Ray Rice, Caroo, Sanu, Kyle, etc. I consider the latter guys “stars”. Nova could be great but he had way too many wtf
games in my opinion to be thought of in the same light as those guys. If there is a need to include QBs in the Hall of Fame, then I agree Nova is among our best. Regardless - Wimsatt’s performance last year wasn’t close to that level. He has 2 more years to get there though in fairness. But not as a Rutgers player.
 
Nova was definitely our last naturally gifted, true high-level, D1 QB1. We have been in search mode since the day he left. I don't think AK is the answer, nor was GW staying and "getting better". I just hope we have a kid who looks and acts the part in that room right now. I honestly love Sheppard, and hope Surace lives up to the hype. This recruiting run can only help a possible transfer in the future.

We just NEED a guy who looks comfortable playing high-level D1 at the QB position. That has not been the case. It is crazy to think how spoiled we were with Nova, as bad as everyone thought he was in the moment. Then you think about Mike Teel. Imagine having him in our current offense? Easy 8-9 wins this year. And at the time we always thought we could do better. I would take Ryan Hart over any of our QBs since Nova.

We have had a historical, almost 10 year run of serious QB issues. Something's gotta give right?
 
Nova was definitely our last naturally gifted, true high-level, D1 QB1. We have been in search mode since the day he left. I don't think AK is the answer, nor was GW staying and "getting better". I just hope we have a kid who looks and acts the part in that room right now. I honestly love Sheppard, and hope Surace lives up to the hype. This recruiting run can only help a possible transfer in the future.

We just NEED a guy who looks comfortable playing high-level D1 at the QB position. That has not been the case. It is crazy to think how spoiled we were with Nova, as bad as everyone thought he was in the moment. Then you think about Mike Teel. Imagine having him in our current offense? Easy 8-9 wins this year. And at the time we always thought we could do better. I would take Ryan Hart over any of our QBs since Nova.

We have had a historical, almost 10 year run of serious QB issues. Something's gotta give right?
Mike Teel struggled in the first 6 games of 2008, then the lightbulb went off and the rest is history. Nova also wasn’t very good, at times, and likely cost us the PSU game with his turnovers, his senior year. But nevertheless, they rebounded their senior year and had good seasons. I do wonder whether we pulled the plug too soon on Gavin. But it doesn’t matter now. Everyone Is Team Athan, and if he stinks, we’ll be Tesm Ajani.
 
omg man . Why are you even bringing flood into this conversation? Flood was terrible and won whatever games he did with schiano’s players
Wimsatt wasn’t good …but by Rutgers standards he wasn’t bad. Do you think Lucas was a great quarterback here ?
Nobody thought Lucas was all that great at the time.
 
Nova had the "strong arm" curse like Favre did.
Nova never saw triple coverage he didn't think he could successfully blaze a ball into.
If the game was close and late he would start trying to "make things happen" and that's often when the INTs showed-up
I liked the player and he has talent but when a game was tight I often turned it off because I knew the INT would happen.
Favre did the same thing in his latter years
 
Mike Teel struggled in the first 6 games of 2008, then the lightbulb went off and the rest is history. Nova also wasn’t very good, at times, and likely cost us the PSU game with his turnovers, his senior year. But nevertheless, they rebounded their senior year and had good seasons. I do wonder whether we pulled the plug too soon on Gavin. But it doesn’t matter now. Everyone Is Team Athan, and if he stinks, we’ll be Tesm Ajani.
At RU, the guy on the bench is always an All-American. People on these boards are going to be calling for Ajani before first badly thrown 3rd down pass hits the turf.
 
If by some miracle GW leads UK to an appearance at the SECCG…this forum will be a delight to troll. 😈
Even if he does, we all saw what he could and could not do here, with our players and with our staff and with that, I more than welcome the change, realizing it’s still a bit if a risk.
 
Even if he does, we all saw what he could and could not do here, with our players and with our staff and with that, I more than welcome the change, realizing it’s still a bit if a risk.
Actually I would like to see Wimsatt be the Wildcat's starter and have a good year.
He chose to come to RU and played his heart out , but didn't deserve to be #1 and found program he might find to be a better fit for him.
But have AK play the way we dream RU QBs will do ( think "Slingin' Sammy Baugh /Johnny Unitas/Tom Brady) , proving even though Gavin did a good job as the Kentucky QB, Athan had a far better season , proving Rutgers made the right choice .
 
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Schiano knew what to ask for, and negotiated and fought for every advantage. His strength is that he is very organized and sharp as a tack. He came very well prepared., and that’s why he’s been successful at Rutgers.

I don’t think it’s as much about Gavin as you think. At least in my case, it bothers me when folks like Al call Gavin a potential Heisman candidate or Plum indicates that Gavin’s stats are borderline RU hall of fame caliber because I think it does a disservice to other great RU players on a comparative basis - Kyle being at the top of the list.

The only way to rationalize anything “great” about Gavin’s stats is to look at them completely out of context and say “wow” he rushed for 11 TDs - that’s a record for an RU QB. He had even more that Kyle who led the BIG in rushing as a RB. “Wow!!!” I think that view is very unfair to the likes of KM. The reality is that in all likelihood Gavin was given those cream puff carries from the 1 and the red zone attempts vs. Wagner to boost his confidence and deflect attention away from the areas where he struggled. The suggestion that teams like Indiana, VTech, Miami, etc. where those TDs from the 1 were scored were so focused on stopping Kyle that a strategy of using Gavin instead was needed there is ridiculous. Kyle’s stats do not lie. There is no reason to believe he couldn’t have converted those 8 TDs. Zero. So yeah - at least for my part - I find the defenses of Gavin as an RU star indirectly insulting to other guys like KM which really bothers me.
Even indirectly, ‘Insulting to others’ isn’t the right view, but yes, completely hollow stats.

Rushing yards matter. And of course passing yard. Certainly Not rushing TDs, especially when they were gimmies to protect the baby’s feelings.
 
Even indirectly, ‘Insulting to others’ isn’t the right view, but yes, completely hollow stats.

Rushing yards matter. And of course passing yard. Certainly Not rushing TDs, especially when they were gimmies to protect the baby’s feelings.
Interesting. Never heard of a coach or player call a TD a gimmie in a power 5 game .
 
Interesting. Never heard of a coach or player call a TD a gimmie in a power 5 game .

Stop. In all 6 instances he had 3 tries to go a yard or less. We had the leading rusher in the BIG available as an alternative and your trying to say we needed Gavin’s legs? They were the text book definition of gimmie opportunities to pad the stats and you know it.
 
Even indirectly, ‘Insulting to others’ isn’t the right view, but yes, completely hollow stats.

Rushing yards matter. And of course passing yard. Certainly Not rushing TDs, especially when they were gimmies to protect the baby’s feelings.

Perhaps “insult” is the wrong word. I’ll put it another way - let’s say academic distinction at a school was obtained by averaging an A across all subjects. Not too many students met the requirements so the school decides to expand the pool to include students who average a B+ or better to recognize more kids. My view is that this decision would marginalize the significance of the accomplishment for the kids in the pool who attained the original A average requirement in this made up example.

When folks label guys like Gavin Wimsatt Rutgers “all stars” I see it the same way. To me - the term “All Star” should be reserved for guys like Ray Rice, Caroo, etc. who truly did special things at RU. Expanding the definition to include serviceable QBs marginalizes the meaning of “star” in a similar way to my example above. Again - it’s just my opinion and I understand not everyone will see it this way.
 
First time in this thread I agree with Plum

So your saying you think Indiana and company would’ve executed successful goal line stands if we had handed off to Kyle 4 straight times from the 1 instead?

Vs. Indiana - Kyle had 24 reps - I believe he picked up either a first down or at least a yard 100% of the time. A first down or 3 yards on 23 of 24… But they are getting 8 stops at the 1 to stuff Kyle and take 2 TDs off the board. Really?
 
So your saying you think Indiana and company would’ve executed successful goal line stands if we had handed off to Kyle 4 straight times from the 1 instead?

Vs. Indiana - Kyle had 24 reps - I believe he picked up either a first down or at least a yard 100% of the time. A first down or 3 yards on 23 of 24… But they are getting 8 stops at the 1 to stuff Kyle and take 2 TDs off the board. Really?
Yes…a gimmie. Kyle had gimmies too. The performance of one player compared to another shouldn’t be judged by rushing TDs. Many of those are via coach favoritism like happened here.
 
Yes…a gimmie. Kyle had gimmies too. The performance of one player compared to another shouldn’t be judged by rushing TDs. Many of those are via coach favoritism like happened here.

I mean sure - every TD against Wagner is a gimmie. He was given one opportunity in that game to punch one through.

But other than that? Actually, no, he really didn’t. 6 of his 7 of the other TDs rushes were 7 yards or more (most 15+ yards)… It’d also be pretty laughable to call the lone straggler (his 1 yard rush) in the Temple game a gimmie considering the circumstances. We’re nursing a 13-7 lead from Temple 33. He rushes for 7 yards and then 19 yards to set up 1st and goal from the 7. He rushes for 6 more yards to make it second and goal from the 1. So I’d say he deserved the right to punch it in on the next one - wouldn’t you? It seems we have a group of fans who’d claim we took a risk there and should’ve given Gavin a 12th TD….
 
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