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OT: Gavin Wimsatt acclimating well to Kentucky Football

Perhaps “insult” is the wrong word. I’ll put it another way - let’s say academic distinction at a school was obtained by averaging an A across all subjects. Not too many students met the requirements so the school decides to expand the pool to include students who average a B+ or better to recognize more kids. My view is that this decision would marginalize the significance of the accomplishment for the kids in the pool who attained the original A average requirement in this made up example.

When folks label guys like Gavin Wimsatt Rutgers “all stars” I see it the same way. To me - the term “All Star” should be reserved for guys like Ray Rice, Caroo, etc. who truly did special things at RU. Expanding the definition to include serviceable QBs marginalizes the meaning of “star” in a similar way to my example above. Again - it’s just my opinion and I understand not everyone will see it this way.
I don’t think marginalizing is the right word either. Does Harold Baines being in the HoF marginalize Ricky Henderson’s stature ? Hardly. Greatness isn’t a black and white distinction. Context matters. Baines was elected by the Veterans Committee. Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl and was released anyway.

I think GW was a god-awful, illegitimate college QB who was along for the ride on a good team, propped up by a coach who bent over backwards to keep his baby happy. The worst QB in the country was certainly not a star. That’s ridiculous. So I agree with your assessment of him.

No knowledgeable fan would consider GW a star player. Comparing his legacy to Rice, Carroo and all RU’s top players is simple: he was terrible and they weren’t.
 
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I don’t think marginalizing is the right word either. Does Harold Baines being in the HoF marginalize Ricky Henderson’s stature ? Hardly. Greatness isn’t a black and white distinction. Context matters. Baines was elected by the Veterans Committee. Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl and was released anyway.

I think GW was a god-awful, illegitimate college QB who was along for the ride on a good team, propped up by a coach who bent over backwards to keep his baby happy. The worst QB in the country was certainly not a star. That’s ridiculous. So I agree with your assessment of him.

No knowledgeable fan would consider GW a star player. Comparing his legacy to Rice, Carroo and all RU’s top players is simple: he was terrible and they weren’t.

Forget Gavin. Go with Gary Nova instead for the point I was making. Marginalizing is the right word for what I was driving at - or if you prefer, diminishing the value of the recognition. To me, it takes away from the prestige of any distinction that’s intended to highlight the very best, to expand the pool to include slightly above average performers. I acknowledged that not everyone would agree with my view. It’s fine if you disagree.
 
So your saying you think Indiana and company would’ve executed successful goal line stands if we had handed off to Kyle 4 straight times from the 1 instead?

Vs. Indiana - Kyle had 24 reps - I believe he picked up either a first down or at least a yard 100% of the time. A first down or 3 yards on 23 of 24… But they are getting 8 stops at the 1 to stuff Kyle and take 2 TDs off the board. Really?
No I am saying if you told schiano those touchdowns were “gimmies”, he would think your crazy and laugh you out of the room
 
No I am saying if you told schiano those touchdowns were “gimmies”, he would think your crazy and laugh you out of the room

Okay sure - and he’d do the same regarding a PAT kick and those dang well better be as close to automatic as you can get, yes?

Look at this way - from a risk / reward model perspective - a single chance to punch the ball through from 3 yards out is deemed to be only twice as risky as a PAT (worth double the points - 2 vs 1). We’re talking about a fresh set of downs from only 1 yard out. And we have the leading rushing in the BIG on our team. Nothing is a guarantee - but the odds are definitely highly in our favor no matter who the coaches gave the opportunity to in terms of the stat book.
 
Okay sure - and he’d do the same regarding a PAT kick and those dang well better be as close to automatic as you can get, yes?

Look at this way - from a risk / reward model perspective - a single chance to punch the ball through from 3 yards out is deemed to be only twice as risky as a PAT (worth double the points - 2 vs 1). We’re talking about a fresh set of downs from only 1 yard out. And we have the leading rushing in the BIG on our team. Nothing is a guarantee - but the odds are definitely highly in our favor no matter who the coaches gave the opportunity to in terms of the stat book.
I saw you mention the Indiana game. Gavin was MVP of that game right? Or no? As far as goal line tds, yes they should be a given. But they are often not and a QB sneak is often used to make it easier if you have a QB that can do it. For example the eagles tush push ..
 
Okay sure - and he’d do the same regarding a PAT kick and those dang well better be as close to automatic as you can get, yes?

Look at this way - from a risk / reward model perspective - a single chance to punch the ball through from 3 yards out is deemed to be only twice as risky as a PAT (worth double the points - 2 vs 1). We’re talking about a fresh set of downs from only 1 yard out. And we have the leading rushing in the BIG on our team. Nothing is a guarantee - but the odds are definitely highly in our favor no matter who the coaches gave the opportunity to in terms of the stat book.
None of what you’re arguing changes that Gavin was serviceable and a good QB by Rutgers standards. Any RU fan csn rattle off at least 10 worse starting quarterbacks here in the last 25 years . Easy
 
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I wonder if any Minnesota newspaper reporters are keeping track of how AK is acclimating at Rutgers.
Well, the NYC media market shouldn’t take its direction from some mediocre reporters in Minnesota . The NYC media market employs the best of the best
 
I wonder if any Minnesota newspaper reporters are keeping track of how AK is acclimating at Rutgers.
When Kaliakmanis is lighting up the scoreboard, and I think he will, you can bet that Minnesota will be writing articles about him. The Rutgers vs Minnesota game is going to get a lot of press.
 
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None of what you’re arguing changes that Gavin was serviceable and a good QB by Rutgers standards. Any RU fan csn rattle off at least 10 worse starting quarterbacks here in the last 25 years . Easy

I never said he was the worst possible QB. I said that through last season, he was not an All Star football player by any standard - Rutgers or otherwise. Nor was he a future Heisman candidate on anyone’s list but Al’s.

Your making it sound like it’s a rule that a program that hasn’t experienced good QB play historically must select from among their least bad QBs and induct them into their school hall of fame as All Star football players.
 
Yep . Certainly more newsworthy here . Was AK the starting QB on one of Minnesota’s greatest teams in its BIG history?
Well in the last 50 years Minnesota has only won more than 9 games twice. They have won 9 games three times - one of which AK was the quarterback so the answer to your question is yes he was the QB on one of MN greatest teams.
 
Forget Gavin. Go with Gary Nova instead for the point I was making. Marginalizing is the right word for what I was driving at - or if you prefer, diminishing the value of the recognition. To me, it takes away from the prestige of any distinction that’s intended to highlight the very best, to expand the pool to include slightly above average performers. I acknowledged that not everyone would agree with my view. It’s fine if you disagree.
Marginalizing is too strong a word. Baines doesn’t marginalize or even weaken Henderson’s stature. Would Pettitte marginalize or weaken Koufax’s stature ? No.

Is Eli an all time great ? Of course not. But he will get in and nobody should care.

There are no losers in Halls. No one in any Hall undermines the stature of anyone else.

Re Halls: IYKYK
 
Well in the last 50 years Minnesota has only won more than 9 games twice. They have won 9 games three times - one of which AK was the quarterback so the answer to your question is yes he was the QB on one of MN greatest teams.
Like i posted Minnesota media is not exactly top of the profession
 
None of what you’re arguing changes that Gavin was serviceable and a good QB by Rutgers standards. Any RU fan csn rattle off at least 10 worse starting quarterbacks here in the last 25 years . Easy
Hey was so serviceable he now is a backup in Kentucky. Do you ever read the crap you write first?
 
Wait …you’re the guy that said Braun wouldn’t win coach of the year !! Bus be slow !!
You think Gavin was serviceable. Talk about stupid! You are going have to change you name on this because dumb isn't strong enough. Try something that rhymes with stupid or idiot because you certainly watching the Rutgers QB. If Gavin didn't cough up the last 4 season game Schiano would have won.
 
I saw you mention the Indiana game. Gavin was MVP of that game right? Or no? As far as goal line tds, yes they should be a given. But they are often not and a QB sneak is often used to make it easier if you have a QB that can do it. For example the eagles tush push ..
Yes - Gavin had a handful of great moments last season. The 80 yard rushing TD vs. Indiana was one of them. He had a couple other nice runs in that game and another great run vs. V-Tech.

I never said he was awful and/or did nothing positive. Not even close to that but for some reason everything I’ve said is being twisted to insinuate just that. But he’s not an All Star.
 
Marginalizing is too strong a word. Baines doesn’t marginalize or even weaken Henderson’s stature. Would Pettitte marginalize or weaken Koufax’s stature ? No.

Is Eli an all time great ? Of course not. But he will get in and nobody should care.

There are no losers in Halls. No one in any Hall undermines the stature of anyone else.

Re Halls: IYKYK

I don’t want to crap on Gary Nova. He did some good things for RU but, man, he also had quite a few memorable head scratcher games. It’s just hard for me to view him in the same light as a star like Caroo or Ray Rice or Kyle. True difference makers game in and out.
 
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You think Gavin was serviceable. Talk about stupid! You are going have to change you name on this because dumb isn't strong enough. Try something that rhymes with stupid or idiot because you certainly watching the Rutgers QB. If Gavin didn't cough up the last 4 season game Schiano would have won.

It depends how you define serviceable. He protected the football. Ultimately, that along with a boost from his legs on a few big plays was good enough from the QB position to get us to a bowl game. So I can see how someone might classify as serviceable. Calling him an All Star of any kind though is ridiculous.
 
He's gonna be a wildcat. Period. UNLESS he can figure out how to throw the ball MORE consistently accurate. Think Gavin Package.
 
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I don’t want to crap on Gary Nova. He did some good things for RU but, man, he also had quite a few memorable head scratcher games. It’s just hard for me to view him in the same light as a star like Caroo or Ray Rice or Kyle. True difference makers game in and out.
Even among players or coaches in Halls, there is often a clear difference. Fans know. Players know.

Joe Montana ain’t losing any sleep because Bob Griese is also in the Hall. I’m sure he doesn’t give a shit, nor should anyone else.

Gary Nova, Ryan Cubit or Hart, Tom Tarver or anyone…if by some bad judgment any of them are added to our Hall it would not undermine the achievement or recognition of our real historic stars.
 
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You think Gavin was serviceable. Talk about stupid! You are going have to change you name on this because dumb isn't strong enough. Try something that rhymes with stupid or idiot because you certainly watching the Rutgers QB. If Gavin didn't cough up the last 4 season game Schiano would have won.
I will ask again … aren’t you the guy that said Braun wouldn’t be coach of the year? In the thread plum started and ate your lunch.
A simple yes or no will do
 
Even among players or coaches in Halls, there is often a clear difference. Fans know. Players know.

Joe Montana ain’t losing any sleep because Bob Griese is also in the Hall. I’m sure he doesn’t give a shit, nor should anyone else.

Gary Nova, Ryan Cubit or Hart, Tom Tarver or anyone…if by some bad judgment any of them are added to our Hall it would not undermine the achievement or recognition of our real historic stars.

Fair point. However - the context of this whole topic was the idea of bucketing two active players from the same team - KM and GW as “All Stars”. In that situation - my opinion is that grouping them together in passing as “our stars from last year” is, well, not right to Kyle. Nevermind trying to come up with a perfect word for it. Kyle was brilliant for us in every way imaginable. Gavin wasn’t close to that.
 
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Fair point. However - the context of this whole topic was the idea of bucketing two active players from the same team - KM and GW as “All Stars”. In that situation - my opinion is that grouping them together in passing as “our stars from last year” is, well, not right to Kyle. Nevermind trying to come up with a perfect word for it. Kyle was brilliant for us in every way imaginable. Gavin wasn’t close to that.
I hear you, but still agree to disagree and I will leave it at that. Labeling GW an all star is wrong but it would have no impact on Kyle or his legacy. Every player, coach and fan knows which one sucked and which one didn’t.

In fact, it’d probably embarrass GW to have such an obviously undeserved ‘honor’
 
Yes - Gavin had a handful of great moments last season. The 80 yard rushing TD vs. Indiana was one of them. He had a couple other nice runs in that game and another great run vs. V-Tech.

I never said he was awful and/or did nothing positive. Not even close to that but for some reason everything I’ve said is being twisted to insinuate just that. But he’s not an All Star.
Idk if someone called him an all-star but my guess is that they were being sarcastic lol. Idk if my main point is understood in this thread. It's hard for teams to find quarterbacks. Let alone one that can win you games with his arm. Sometimes a coach may feel that a QB that is essentially another RB in the backfield with the threat of throwing it on occasion is better for the offense than a QB that is a better thrower but not elite. I know you've said he's not a "dual threat" but that's what it is. No matter what the defense has to account for "threat" of the run or pass. From the time we played little league we learned about "assignment football" when you have a dual threat QB the defense will assign a de or olb or safety that has to tackle the QB no matter what. That's not disrespectful to monangai, it's football, coaches scheme things to make it easier for players all the time. Sheron moore schemed JJ McCarthy into a top draft pick at QB despite barely throwing the rock.

I know for sure Evan Simon is a better passer than Gavin Wimsatt. I do not know for sure if he would be able to avoid sacks and protect the football. I don't know if the receivers were good enough, idk if he throws ints against an Indiana or northwestern that lose you games you could have won playing it safe and keeping it on the ground and only throw to keep the defense honest. The strategy worked, Rutgers had its best season in a long time. Yet we still have people acting like they can't understand this. There is now a new QB in place but people are still second guessing last year's decisions even though they worked! It's fascinating how upset people are about this.
 
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Fair point. However - the context of this whole topic was the idea of bucketing two active players from the same team - KM and GW as “All Stars”. In that situation - my opinion is that grouping them together in passing as “our stars from last year” is, well, not right to Kyle. Nevermind trying to come up with a perfect word for it. Kyle was brilliant for us in every way imaginable. Gavin wasn’t close to that.
If someone were to ask, who was the 2nd best offensive player after Kyle last year, it would definitely be Gavin. We won 7 games due to the impact of both Kyle and Gavin.
 
Idk if someone called him an all-star but my guess is that they were being sarcastic lol. Idk if my main point is understood in this thread. It's hard for teams to find quarterbacks. Let alone one that can win you games with his arm. Sometimes a coach may feel that a QB that is essentially another RB in the backfield with the threat of throwing it on occasion. I know you've said he's not a "dual threat" but that's what it is. No matter what the defense has to account for "threat" of the run or pass. From the time we played little league we learned about "assignment football" when you have a dual threat QB the defense will assign a de or olb or safety that has to tackle the QB no matter what. That's not disrespectful to monangai, it's football, coaches scheme things to make it easier for players all the time. Sheron moore schemed JJ McCarthy into a top draft pick at QB despite barely throwing the rock.

I know for sure Evan Simon is a better passer than Gavin Wimsatt. I do not know for sure if he would be able to avoid sacks and protect the football. I don't know if the receivers were good enough, idk if he throws ints against an Indiana or northwestern that lose you games you could have won playing it safe and keeping it on the ground and only throw to keep the defense honest. The strategy worked, Rutgers had its best season in a long time. Yet we still have people acting like they can't understand this. There is now a new QB in place but people are still second guessing last year's decisions even though they worked! It's fascinating how upset people are about this.

Plum called in a RU All Star and claimed he’d have an argument for induction in the RU hall of fame. Al has posted bold predictions that Wimsatt has Heisman potential for UK (which basically implies we made some huge mistake going with Al). Neither were being sarcastic.

The “negatively slanted” comments on here directed at Gavin (mine and others) are mostly responses to these takes. I don’t disagree with anything you said although in fairness, there’s really no way to know how Evan would’ve done following another offseason of training - he scored a TD on his only meaningful drive of the season.
 
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Plum called in a RU All Star and claimed he’d have an argument for induction in the RU hall of fame. Al has posted bold predictions that Wimsatt has Heisman potential for UK (which basically implies we made some huge mistake going with Al). Neither were being sarcastic.

The “negatively slanted” comments on here directed at Gavin (mine and others) are mostly responses to these takes. I don’t disagree with anything you said although in fairness, there’s really no way to know how Evan would’ve done following another offseason of training - he scored a TD on his only meaningful drive of the season.
when did he ‘score a TD’ ?
 
I don’t want to crap on Gary Nova. He did some good things for RU but, man, he also had quite a few memorable head scratcher games. It’s just hard for me to view him in the same light as a star like Caroo or Ray Rice or Kyle. True difference makers game in and out.
That's fair. I disliked our total commitment to Nova at QB when he'd do stuff that looked much worse than Sitkowski's head-scratchers.. like try to get rid of teh ball while prone, on his way to the turf.. resulting in a backward pass interception. He had SEVERAL of similar "events" and I just don't know how you stick with him after that. And yet, he ended up with an excellent senior year.. was that him finally putting in the work to improve or was it us having Friedgen to coach him? Probably both. But Nova never stepped into his throws under pressure.. he bailed out and threw off his back foot to avoid the hit. I think Caroo bailed Nova out many many times.. throw it up for grabs and Caroo would grab it.

I was hoping GW could have pulled off a Nova-like Senior year at some point.

BTW.. others here wondered whether Minnesota is following AK's move here.. don't know if their papers are.. but their fan board is talking... none too favorably. Interestingly.. AK had a good 2022 for them and a poor 2023.. after the OC came here. Let's hope AK reuniting with his former OC pays dividends and it is AK that ends up with a Nova-like senior year.

Lastly.. while I'd love to see what Wimsatt will do for UK.. it looks like he will not be the starter. I have seen a couple fan-vlogger season preview vids and found the QB discussions and it is someone else they focus on.. QB from Florida. iirc.
 
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If someone were to ask, who was the 2nd best offensive player after Kyle last year, it would definitely be Gavin. We won 7 games due to the impact of both Kyle and Gavin.

First of all, we didn’t have a good offense. We won games because our D was very good, Kyle was a stud, and we avoided too many mistakes on O. Our QB deserves credit for helping achieve the latter but that doesn’t make him a star player.

However, if I had to answer your question, Jay Patel would probably be my pick. The timing of his 51 yarder was important vs. Temple and the 47 yarder vs. Michigan State was the difference in the game. Unlike Gavin, he didn’t have offsetting wtf plays that hurt us and in some cases cost us games. Literally missed one FG and one PAT the whole season.
 
Could it be that he's getting better coaching over at Kentucky
this part makes me wonder about how much his accuracy improved:
>"but the throws Saturday at least offered hope he can be more than a running threat.”<
There were times Gavin made throws while at Rutgers that we thought he was finally going to
live up to the type of QB we thought he could be.
This is Wimsatt's most likely roll :
>“I think that we are going to utilize him in a lot of those Wildcat-type situations,”Hamdan said Friday, per the Herald-Leader <

Gavin might be getting better coaching or just doing the few good things during Kentucky's practice that he did at RU practices that gave Rutgers coaches high hopes for him.
 
Certainly a possibility.

It was never the case that he couldn’t hit a deep ball. Nobody only throws those - you can’t. Eventually the D figures out the coverage. He was always unable to mix it up because inexplicitly he never figured out the short or medium games and could never hit receivers in stride in the flats.
 
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