OT: Honda Accord Thread

[RU4Real]

I'm not sure what the right term is, but do sports cars or sports sedans still have manual transmissions? With a stick and clutch pedal?

Or are they paddle shifters now too?

Manual transmissions in production cars are a vanishing rarity. They can be found on A) some very low-end (read: cheap) cars and B) on a few sports cars (Mustang, Camaro, Corvette, Porsches, etc.).

The rage these days is the automatic sequential gearbox. They all come with paddle shifters. Some regular (torque converter) automatics have shift paddles as well, although not all of them are worth the exercise.

The sequential gearbox is a miracle of engineering. The better ones have two clutches and the gears are laid out in such a way that while one gear is disengaging, the next is engaging - at the same time. Shift times on those transmissions are measured in milliseconds. All of the exotics are using them now and Porsche's "take rate" on pure manual transmissions has now dropped below 20%, with most buyers opting for the PDK (Porsche Doppelkupplung).

 

[CERU00]

As someone whos never purchased a Honda, the perception by the average person is that they build to a higher quality standard and include higher quality components than their competitors. Don't know if this is true now, was true back in the 60s-80s, or was never true.

 

[rutgersal]

I'm not sure what the right term is, but do sports cars or sports sedans still have manual transmissions? With a stick and clutch pedal?

Or are they paddle shifters now too?

You can order a Honda Accord with a silky smooth 6 speed manual.

 

[RU4Real]

You can order a Honda Accord with a silky smooth 6 speed manual.

Only on the base (LX) model.

All other 4 cylinder Accords come with a CVT, which further represents Honda's disdain for anything like actual performance.

 

[RU4Real]

This just came out today.

 

[FanuSanu52]

I always laugh at Jeeps, especially the Wrangler. Such trendy vehicles that most owners have no use for and are ranked at the bottom of the big quality and reliability surveys every year. Useless hunks for so many people.

Looks like Fiat has done a really good job at changing hearts and minds since its return.

 

[RU4Real]

I always laugh at Jeeps, especially the Wrangler. Such trendy vehicles that most owners have no use for and are ranked at the bottom of the big quality and reliability surveys every year. Useless hunks for so many people.

Looks like Fiat has done a really good job at changing hearts and minds since its return.

Inorite.

I think Fiat suffers from the same problem as Mini. Both the 500 and the Mini have been criticized for questionable combinations of fit & finish and NVH - it doesn't take too long for them to start buzzing and rattling under everyday conditions. That sort of thing will piss people off, these days.

Used to be you expected a car to have its individual rattles. Now? The tiniest noise out of place is a sign of something gone wrong in the build process.

 

[rutgersal]

Only on the base (LX) model.

All other 4 cylinder Accords come with a CVT, which further represents Honda's disdain for anything like actual performance.

Actually, the 6 speed can be ordered on the Accord Couple for the following Trim Levels

-LX-S 4cyl
-EX 4cyl
-EX-L V6

The 6 speed can be ordered on the Accord Sedan for the following Trim Levels:

-LX 4cyl
-Sport 4cyl
-EX 4cyl

 

[CERU00]

This just came out today.

This list can't possibly be accurate. Every Subaru owner I know has proclaimed that their cars are perfect and that Subaru is the greatest car company of all time.

 

[iReC89]

This list can't possible be accurate. Every Subaru owner I know has proclaimed that their cars are perfect and that Subaru is the greatest car company of all time.

"Subaru" means 'to burn or leak oil' in some language, but aside from that they are pretty solid.

 

[FanuSanu52]

Subaru owners are pretty tiresome. Like it's the only car on the market with AWD.

Congratulations, you paid too much for a slightly sportier station wagon.

 

[PhDKnight]

Manual transmissions in production cars are a vanishing rarity. They can be found on A) some very low-end (read: cheap) cars and B) on a few sports cars (Mustang, Camaro, Corvette, Porsches, etc.).

The rage these days is the automatic sequential gearbox. They all come with paddle shifters. Some regular (torque converter) automatics have shift paddles as well, although not all of them are worth the exercise.

The sequential gearbox is a miracle of engineering. The better ones have two clutches and the gears are laid out in such a way that while one gear is disengaging, the next is engaging - at the same time. Shift times on those transmissions are measured in milliseconds. All of the exotics are using them now and Porsche's "take rate" on pure manual transmissions has now dropped below 20%, with most buyers opting for the PDK (Porsche Doppelkupplung).

Buying a sports car without a manual transmission is like drinking non-alcoholic beer, what's the point? You definitely cannot be a "car guy" without knowing how to drive a manual.

 

[RU4Real]

Buying a sports car without a manual transmission is like drinking non-alcoholic beer, what's the point? You definitely cannot be a "car guy" without knowing how to drive a manual.

Can you be a "car guy" without ever having the experience of cranking an engine by hand?

The generation now in grade school will grow up to face an automotive world without manual transmissions.

And Al is correct - you can, in fact, get a manual on 3 of the trim levels of 4 cyl. Accords.

 

[FanuSanu52]

Buying a sports car without a manual transmission is like drinking non-alcoholic beer, what's the point?

That simply isn't true anymore. Most of the world's most exciting cars no longer have manual transmissions, and as 4Real and I were talking about recently, the latest effort from Koenigsegg doesn't have a transmission at all.

 

[PhDKnight]

I realize that there are many well made cars that go fast or accelerate quickly. My issue is that removing the stick removes the driver from the equation, much like many of the steering systems made today. I can go on an airplane if I want to go fast, if I want to drive (not commute) then I want a manual with steering that connects me to the car and to the road.

 

[Blitz8RUCrazy]

I can't wait for the driverless car (hopefully it's viable in my life time). Then I can continue to read this forum and browse the web, catchup on work, while my car does the driving for me like a personal chauffeur. Screw connecting "me to the car and to the road"... It will also allow people to live further away from work since that commuting time can be used more productively instead of having to watch where you drive.

 

[lawmatt78]

I realize that there are many well made cars that go fast or accelerate quickly. My issue is that removing the stick removes the driver from the equation, much like many of the steering systems made today. I can go on an airplane if I want to go fast, if I want to drive (not commute) then I want a manual with steering that connects me to the car and to the road.

I feel exactly the same way. I don't commute (which is great; I hate commuting), but I do like to drive, and enjoy having a "driver's car" when I do so. This is why I was holding on to my 2008 BMW w/ a stick and hydraulic steering. It wasn't the fastest car, to me it was a "driver's car." I have a newer and objectively superior BMW now, and I was able to get a stick, but the steering, while good, just isn't the same. We're talking about something that can't really be quantified - feel and experience.

Curious what you drive, w/ those as your criteria.

 

[FanuSanu52]

I realize that there are many well made cars that go fast or accelerate quickly. My issue is that removing the stick removes the driver from the equation, much like many of the steering systems made today. I can go on an airplane if I want to go fast, if I want to drive (not commute) then I want a manual with steering that connects me to the car and to the road.

Meh, take those well-made cars to the track, where they're made to shine, and there's plenty of driver in the equation. If not, it's not the car's fault.

 

[mildone]

I can't wait for the driverless car (hopefully it's viable in my life time). Then I can continue to read this forum and browse the web, catchup on work, while my car does the driving for me like a personal chauffeur. Screw connecting "me to the car and to the road"... It will also allow people to live further away from work since that commuting time can be used more productively instead of having to watch where you drive.

Thus the Honda Accord is an acceptable car for you.

I love driving and spend an inordinate amount of time messing w/my preferred car of the moment to make that experience as enjoyable as possible. While I might have a use for an "autonomous" button that I can switch on in stop and go traffic, I would never want to be driven most other times.

 

[PhDKnight]

I feel exactly the same way. I don't commute (which is great; I hate commuting), but I do like to drive, and enjoy having a "driver's car" when I do so. This is why I was holding on to my 2008 BMW w/ a stick and hydraulic steering. It wasn't the fastest car, to me it was a "driver's car." I have a newer and objectively superior BMW now, and I was able to get a stick, but the steering, while good, just isn't the same. We're talking about something that can't really be quantified - feel and experience.

Curious what you drive, w/ those as your criteria.

My "driving" car is a 2008 MX-5 manual. Incidentally many driving and racing schools use this model for precisely the reasons we are speaking about.

 

[RU4Real]

My "driving" car is a 2008 MX-5 manual. Incidentally many driving and racing schools use this model for precisely the reasons we are speaking about.

I had you pegged as a Miata guy, based on your previous post.

 

[PhDKnight]

I had you pegged as a Miata guy, based on your previous post.

LMAO. How so? I hate being predicatable.

 

[RU4Real]

LMAO. How so? I hate being predicatable.

Because there are a limited number of cars that fit such a precise description. You've never come across as a Porsche guy, so in eliminating the Boxster, the Miata is the next most obvious choice.

 

[famousbill19]

Actually, the 6 speed can be ordered on the Accord Couple for the following Trim Levels

-LX-S 4cyl
-EX 4cyl
-EX-L V6

The 6 speed can be ordered on the Accord Sedan for the following Trim Levels:

-LX 4cyl
-Sport 4cyl
-EX 4cyl

I own a 2013 6-speed Accord LX. Good gear box. Bought it off the lot.

What Honda has done vastly better than the 2014 Toyota minivan we also own is the blue tooth integration. With the Honda, it is seamless and can handle up to 5 different phone as opposed to the Toyota which is a pain in the a$$ to connect to and can only handle two phones.

 

[RU4Real]

Automobile Magazine just today published a comparison test of the Accord, Mazda 6, Sonata, Camry and Legacy.

For those who don't want to read, the Mazda won and the Accord was second.

But the best part of the piece was this, in the intro:

"Which raises the other misconception: Toyota Camrys, Honda Accords and even Mazda 6s and their ilk are by no stretch of the imagination sleeper sports sedans. They're for carrying four or five people in comfort and quiet, with safety, reliability and fuel efficiency their key attributes. Because of their efficient size... most of them handle reasonably well, until you scrub the front tires into the pavement when you try to drive them like sports sedans."

 

[derleider]

It's a joke!

Look, the Honda Accord is the most boring car in the world. It looks boring and drives boring and it is over priced for a commuter car. It does last forever at least. So unless your goal is to drive it for 200,000 boring miles before getting a new one, there is no point in ever buying one.

There was a thread here a long time back about very expensive luxury cars and some poster was trying to decide between them and some idiot suggested buying a Honda Accord. Ever since, everyone here has been making fun of that original poster. That's the joke.

Are you a race car driver? What is all of this really exciting driving you are doing? A boring car that lasts forever sounds like a good deal to me.

Now clearly if you want to feel like you lead an exciting life because your car looks interesting or you want to impress people - then an Accord isnt for you. If in fact your car isnt a personality statement, but a tool for getting to and from work - why the hell wouldnt you go with boring, but lasts forever.

 

[RU4Real]

Are you a race car driver? What is all of this really exciting driving you are doing? A boring car that lasts forever sounds like a good deal to me.

Now clearly if you want to feel like you lead an exciting life because your car looks interesting or you want to impress people - then an Accord isnt for you. If in fact your car isnt a personality statement, but a tool for getting to and from work - why the hell wouldnt you go with boring, but lasts forever.

Just. Doesn't. Get it.

 

[RUevolution36]

Are you a race car driver? What is all of this really exciting driving you are doing? A boring car that lasts forever sounds like a good deal to me.

Now clearly if you want to feel like you lead an exciting life because your car looks interesting or you want to impress people - then an Accord isnt for you. If in fact your car isnt a personality statement, but a tool for getting to and from work - why the hell wouldnt you go with boring, but lasts forever.

You know, we don't really need those exciting 4* and 5* recruits. Those 2* recruits are reliable and injury free and are are mere tools for playing football games. Why the hell wouldn't we want to go with the 2* recruits?

 

[PhDKnight]

Because there are a limited number of cars that fit such a precise description. You've never come across as a Porsche guy, so in eliminating the Boxster, the Miata is the next most obvious choice.

Not bad. Truth be told, if I was not paying for pre-school for 3 kids I would love to have the Porsche or similar but I am very happy with what I have.

 

[mildone]

Are you a race car driver? What is all of this really exciting driving you are doing? A boring car that lasts forever sounds like a good deal to me.

Now clearly if you want to feel like you lead an exciting life because your car looks interesting or you want to impress people - then an Accord isnt for you. If in fact your car isnt a personality statement, but a tool for getting to and from work - why the hell wouldnt you go with boring, but lasts forever.

I'm leaning towards thinking that all individually owned cars are personality statements. Seems to me that an Accord is just as much of a personality statement as a Ferrari. They just say different things and in different ways.

Also, boring but lasts forever seems like a false choice. What's wrong with non-boring and lasts forever?

 

[PhDKnight]

I'm leaning towards thinking that all individually owned cars are personality statements. Seems to me that an Accord is just as much of a personality statement as a Ferrari. They just say different things and in different ways.

Also, boring but lasts forever seems like a false choice. What's wrong with non-boring and lasts forever?

It's just like the debate about automatic versus quartz watches seen in other threads. Quartz tells the time at a low price, automatics tell the time but that is often really not the point.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

Some people get it and some never will.

Once again, nothing wrong with Honda but just don't pretend that they are anything other than a way to get to point a to point b. There is a reason why their strongest ponts are blutooth and resell value and many other features that have nothing to do with actual driving.

 

[RUevolution36]

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

 

[RRRRUUUU]

I get the point 4Real is making. I wanted a good value but something that had great acceleration for merging/highway driving. I looked at the A4 and the v-6 accord. 0 to 60 on the A4 is 6.6 seconds. On the V6 accord is 6.1 seconds. I got the v6 ex-l for $26,375 plus tax. Sticker prices aren't comparable bc accords can be negotiated for a lot less than sticker comparable to how much negotating room there is on an Audi. The quality of the leather is better in the A4 and a few other minor things. I'm not saying it's the A4, but it's actually faster and cheaper but the a4 has better handling. Just saying it's not the commuting clunker some are making it out to be.

 

[RUevolution36]

I think an appropriate comparison would be...the Accord is like a run of the mill swiss army knife. useful for lots of things, not really the greatest tool for any particular task.

 

[RU4Real]

I get the point 4Real is making. I wanted a good value but something that had great acceleration for merging/highway driving. I looked at the A4 and the v-6 accord. 0 to 60 on the A4 is 6.6 seconds. On the V6 accord is 6.1 seconds. I got the v6 ex-l for $26,375 plus tax. Sticker prices aren't comparable bc accords can be negotiated for a lot less than sticker comparable to how much negotating room there is on an Audi. The quality of the leather is better in the A4 and a few other minor things. I'm not saying it's the A4, but it's actually faster and cheaper but the a4 has better handling. Just saying it's not the commuting clunker some are making it out to be.

The 6.6 0-60 time for the A4 isn't correct. The "as tested" 0-60 time, per C&D, is 5.6 seconds.

The V-6 Accord can't possibly beat an A4 in a drag race (not that either car is really meant for that) for the simple reason that it can't put all its power to the ground from a standing start. Floor it and either the traction control kicks in or the wheels spin. The A4, on the other hand, launches with zero spin and no TC intervention due to the AWD system.

 

[Upstream]

The 6.6 0-60 time for the A4 isn't correct. The "as tested" 0-60 time, per C&D, is 5.6 seconds.

The V-6 Accord can't possibly beat an A4 in a drag race (not that either car is really meant for that) for the simple reason that it can't put all its power to the ground from a standing start. Floor it and either the traction control kicks in or the wheels spin. The A4, on the other hand, launches with zero spin and no TC intervention due to the AWD system.

4Real -- Is there any value in knowing the 0-60 time when comparing cars? The half-second difference between the Audi and Honda does not seem very great. When my wife bought her car a few years ago, she selected a car with a 0-60 time similar to the Honda Accord, but she found the car she selected to be a lot less sluggish. So it seems to me that the 0-60 stat is not very meaningful in comparing how cars perform in the real world. Is there a different measure we should look at?

 

[mildone]

4Real -- Is there any value in knowing the 0-60 time when comparing cars? The half-second difference between the Audi and Honda does not seem very great. When my wife bought her car a few years ago, she selected a car with a 0-60 time similar to the Honda Accord, but she found the car she selected to be a lot less sluggish. So it seems to me that the 0-60 stat is not very meaningful in comparing how cars perform in the real world. Is there a different measure we should look at?

I'm not a 4Real, but I play one on TV. A joke that will not be understood by anybody not around in the 1980s. Anyway, I'm not him, but here's my opinion.

For people who are considering cars like the Accord or Camry, the half second is not, IMO, going to make any difference to most buyers as long as the car can get from 0 - 60 under 7 seconds or so, going uphill. For those drivers, linearity of power delivery, the smoothness of acceleration, probably make more difference than the 0 - 60 time.

If I were going to buy a sedan like the Accord or Camry or their competitors, I would consider reliability ratings, crash ratings, comfort, and predicable and neat handling before anything else. After that, I'd compare interior features like Bluetooth and hands-free support, control placement, etc. And then maybe gas mileage and tank size.

Someone buying a sports car would obviously care about that half second. But then they are usually looking at cars in the 4.0 - 6.0 range and so a half second is more meaningful, in terms of percentage and perception. And obviously someone buying a supercar (for it's performance, as opposed to wanting to impress their neighbors) will very much care about a half second, since they are looking in the 2.5 - 4.0 range.

Many people buying a so-called sports sedan would more than likely care the half second as well, particularly if buying an upmarket brand such as BMW or Audi. I tend to think most people that buy Mercedes or Lexus are more interested in comfort than performance, although that seems to be changing, w/Mercedes, as of late, perhaps due to Mercedes kicking butt in Formula One the past couple seasons.

 

[RRRRUUUU]

The 6.6 0-60 time for the A4 isn't correct. The "as tested" 0-60 time, per C&D, is 5.6 seconds.

The V-6 Accord can't possibly beat an A4 in a drag race (not that either car is really meant for that) for the simple reason that it can't put all its power to the ground from a standing start. Floor it and either the traction control kicks in or the wheels spin. The A4, on the other hand, launches with zero spin and no TC intervention due to the AWD system.

Since car and driver is your trusted source, they have the actual tested 0-60 for the v6 sedan accord at 5.6 seconds, same as the tested A4. So I guess the accord wouldn't beat the A4 but it would be a tie, and cost a lot less. Btw the accord engine in the v6 looks to be similar to the one they used in the Acura TL.

Source: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-honda-accord-sedan-v-6-test-review