Curious to see what others think, especially those with close inside knowledge of the game. Im my opinion, batters need to be brushed back and occasionally hit (below the neck). I think this is an “old school” train of thought and realize the game is drastically different today and I believe my opinion is in the minority.
OT: Is Keith Hernandez right in supporting pitchers hitting batters
- Thread starter R1766U
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If this is going to remain a part of the game:
1) Fans can't get upset when their guy gets hit and is on the DL for a while
2) Opposing players can't be surprised when their own teammate gets plunked in retaliation
3) MLB can't condemn the retaliatory shot. First hit batsman gets a song & dance by the ump, but its all that old-school flavor of the game. Hit the other team's player and out come the ejections and suspensions and outrage from the league office? FOH.
1) Fans can't get upset when their guy gets hit and is on the DL for a while
2) Opposing players can't be surprised when their own teammate gets plunked in retaliation
3) MLB can't condemn the retaliatory shot. First hit batsman gets a song & dance by the ump, but its all that old-school flavor of the game. Hit the other team's player and out come the ejections and suspensions and outrage from the league office? FOH.
It’s the same question is do you want your middle linebacker to break the opposing halfbacks sternum.
Play the game!
Getting drilled is 100% part of the game, the fear of drinking your food thru a straw made me hesitant to dive into that low and away slider with 2 strikes on me.
Play the game!
Getting drilled is 100% part of the game, the fear of drinking your food thru a straw made me hesitant to dive into that low and away slider with 2 strikes on me.
Hey, as crazy as it sounds, kids need to learn how to get of the way.
The kids you can’t hit will move athletically and in balance, they’ll also be the kids who aren’t scared to hit.
One thing that always amazed me was how fast my body instinctively dropped to the ground as a fastball headed for my head.
Zap, how often where you uncomfortable / off balance at the plate b/c of someone throwing too close? How close did you stand to the plate?
Having been a pitcher, I agree with the philosophy of moving batters off the plate (not necessarily intentionally hitting them). You need to keep batters from being too comfortable in the box and pitchers have to pitch inside to do that. As a result, at times batters will get hit. One of the best games I ever threw I started by hitting the first two batters (unintentionally) to start the game. After that it seemed batters were bailing out on any curves I snapped off or inside pitches.
Face JR Richard, Lee Smith, Nolan Ryan In my day and you better be ready to move.
Now everyone throws that hard, so it’s far more difficult to hit today.
Half the pitchers in my day you could pick up the ball and throw it back to them after they hit you.
Getting hit at 98 is like getting hit with a musket ball
Not conceding the inside part of the plate is necessary for pitchers to be successful, and the risk of being hit with the ball is part of the game and naturally comes when pitchers pitch inside. Intentionally hitting people is BS no matter what the circumstance. In last nights game it would have been just as effective in trying to ultimately get the hitter out if the pitcher just threw inside to keep him of balance and not get comfortable. Hitting him intentionally to "send a message" is crap, and now you have a young and exciting player likely headed to the DL and a playoff chase impacted. That's not "part of the game". Sorry.
Love Keith but agree with this. I understand throwing at batters if it's retaliation for something else, he showed you up in a prior at bat (even though all the outrage over bat flipping is incredibly dumb), etc but to peg a guy because he's just hitting too well is straight up being a coward. How about trying to not only get him out but also try to make him look stupid?
He would've been better off waiting for him outside the locker room. At least then it's man to man, not "man throwing a missile while other man stands still".
Nope! Stupid archaic baseball at its dumbest. New era players won't tolerate it. It's one thing to throw inside. Throwing at players because they have had success against you is quite another. Two separate and distinct issues. That's a dumb tradition that MLB should not tolerate any more. Enough players get hit accidently and baseball suffers for it(I miss watching Aaron Judge and I am a Mets fan). Purposeful beaning should generate suspensions.
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I played close to 10 years in the big leagues.
I never saw or heard of a pitcher who willfully wanted to hit a batter in the head.
Our team would not have tolerated one of our pitchers headhunting, we would police that ourselves.
I saw Doc Ellis drill 5 Reds in a row on purpose, he couldn’t break a pane of glass with that sinker he threw so we just laughed at it, so did the Reds.
By the way, the easiest pitch to get out of the way of is a ball at your head.
The hardest pitch to get out of the way of is a pitch thrown behind the hitter; usually that will hit the batter in the back. The pitch is clearly not just a move-him-back pitch, which would be legitimate (maybe I just think that because I'm old)
You wrote earlier that you were reluctant to go for a low-and-outside slider with two strikes. Was this true even if the pitch might be a strike? It would seem a shame to have to take strike three for fear of the pitcher.
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Lee Smith.
Larry Bowa and I were talking when I was on second base...he told me if this new kid Smith comes in watch yourself, he throws 101 and has no clue where it’s going.
Wouldn’t you know it, the 8th inning comes around, in comes Smith and who’s the first batter...Bowa is out at SS, with his glove over his mouth laughing
There’s a lot more to it than that, you’re only talking about a handful of pitchers.
I can assure you, if Bob Gibson had two strikes on you, there was no right hand hitters leaning out over the plate.
If he got that slide piece down and away at around 90... you was out.
Batters today in MLB have it WAY too easy. Friggin body armor needs to be banned. They dive out over the plate, then flop out of the way on a pitch on the inner half of the plate. If they want to put on a shin/foot guard to prevent the old hot foot, that's fine, but GET RID OF THE ELBOW GUARD!
When I become commissioner of the MLB, its the first thing I'm doing. I'm also enforcing 1 foot in the batters box after a taken pitch and putting a clock on the pitcher forcing them to come set within 15 seconds of getting the ball back. If they don't its an automatic "ball".
When I become commissioner of the MLB, its the first thing I'm doing. I'm also enforcing 1 foot in the batters box after a taken pitch and putting a clock on the pitcher forcing them to come set within 15 seconds of getting the ball back. If they don't its an automatic "ball".
Your dad probably told you about Ryne Duren, who was a Yankees reliever in about 1958 or so. Duren threw hard and wore coke-bottle bottom glasses because his vision was poor. I'm sure a lot of hitters found they had happy feet when he was pitching!
Completely agree with this. Still ticks me off when I think of Bat-man (Clemens) beaning Piazza in the head.
I’m glad to hear this. There were stories a
Glad to hear this. I heard (on tv) stories about Clemens, R Johnson, didn’t know what to believe.
Lol Bubba,
I’m in total agreement of your clock rule idea.
I also know you mean well when you speak of players having it easier today, but let me assure you, on the whole we saw nothing like what these hitters have to face today.
The speed of the ball coming at them on a regular day in day out basis, would be like facing Goose every night in our day.
It’s a different stratosphere.
We thought Vida Blue threw hard, he’d be below average today
Zap, thanks for your insight, I really enjoy reading what you have to say. I really think money has ruined baseball. Not just salaries but sponsorships, endorsements, fantasy and sports betting. I believe one of the big reasons why people are so outraged over purposeful brushbacks or plunkings is because there is so much invested in some of these players on all levels.
I have the chance to speak daily with many people between the ages and 14-25. I often try to bring up baseball and I would guess 80% of them have no interest in the sport whatsoever. It is a shame, I hope somehow that begins to change. The biggest reason I hear is that there are too many games and the games are long and boring. IMO they need to shorten the season but won’t becauss of what... money. I also think they should start mic’ing up the players. That clip of Terry Collins yelling at the ump is gold.
I have the chance to speak daily with many people between the ages and 14-25. I often try to bring up baseball and I would guess 80% of them have no interest in the sport whatsoever. It is a shame, I hope somehow that begins to change. The biggest reason I hear is that there are too many games and the games are long and boring. IMO they need to shorten the season but won’t becauss of what... money. I also think they should start mic’ing up the players. That clip of Terry Collins yelling at the ump is gold.
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
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Zap is a board treasure, and I love love love reading his posts. In the same way I enjoy when Bobby Knight or that UConn guy broadcasts a basketball game, I really enjoy hearing from Zap what's really going on down there on the field...
The "baseball code" is archaic. It is utterly idiotic to jeopardize outs with this bull. Learn to throw inside and leave it at that.
You know, they manage to get a lot of the fighting out of hockey and the game survives. You're telling me they can't put a stop to this foolishness without destroying the game?
"Old school" isn't always a good thing. Sometimes it's just head-in-the-sand nonsense because it's always been that way. You want to make a point? Win the damn game. And do it again tomorrow.
You know, they manage to get a lot of the fighting out of hockey and the game survives. You're telling me they can't put a stop to this foolishness without destroying the game?
"Old school" isn't always a good thing. Sometimes it's just head-in-the-sand nonsense because it's always been that way. You want to make a point? Win the damn game. And do it again tomorrow.
+1
Why anybody would rather listen to a Francesa or Kay compared to a pro is beyond me.
Put me down as a yes for jockocrasy as Cosell used to call it.
I think the news here is that you were on second base
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