OT: Judge/Alonso

[RUInsanity]

would you say Mattingly is a better Yankee than Judge so far in his career?

Its an interesting comparison. They both have an MVP as well as a #2 in MVP voting. Mattingly has 2 other MVP Top 10 finishes while Judge has 1. Mattingly started his career at a bit earlier age and had a 4 year period when he was considered perhaps baseball's best hitter. Unfortunately by age 29 he was deteriorating at the plate - mainly due to his degenerative (apparently genetic) back issue. Note that he was also was an incredible defensive first basemen. Judge has had 3 such core seasons. His batting average is not on par with Mattingly, but his power numbers are superior. Also note that he has been instructed to swing with an uppercut to enhance power - but also likely enhances strikeouts. These types of all or nothing advanced metrics did not exist when Mattingly played. Judge is a very good outfielder - but not among the best in the game.

Right now I go with Mattingly - he would have been a surefire Hall of Famer if not for his back. But I believe Judge has at least 2-3 more core (i.e. Top 10 in MVP voting type years) in him and by the end of his career will surpass Mattingly.

Hard for me to say anyone who is MVP caliber is over-rated.

 

[RUfinally2008]

While I think it's reasonable to say that Judge's contract will be a burden - especially in out years, I think that this is off the original thread point of Judge vs. Alonso. The entire thread has become like a "bash" Judge fest spurred on by 2008 who based on his posts and avatar appears to be into spreading the trolling and hate sentiment divide on this forum. Perhaps wait and see what contract Alonso ends up with and then make the comparison.

The avatar? Let's not mention Yankees trolls invading the Mets thread from day one.

 

[greenknight]

Its an interesting comparison. They both have an MVP as well as a #2 in MVP voting. Mattingly has 2 other MVP Top 10 finishes while Judge has 1. Mattingly started his career at a bit earlier age and had a 4 year period when he was considered perhaps baseball's best hitter. Unfortunately by age 29 he was deteriorating at the plate - mainly due to his degenerative (apparently genetic) back issue. Note that he was also was an incredible defensive first basemen. Judge has had 3 such core seasons. His batting average is not on par with Mattingly, but his power numbers are superior. Also note that he has been instructed to swing with an uppercut to enhance power - but also likely enhances strikeouts. These types of all or nothing advanced metrics did not exist when Mattingly played. Judge is a very good outfielder - but not among the best in the game.

Right now I go with Mattingly - he would have been a surefire Hall of Famer if not for his back. But I believe Judge has at least 2-3 more core (i.e. Top 10 in MVP voting type years) in him and by the end of his career will surpass Mattingly.

Hard for me to say anyone who is MVP caliber is over-rated.

Mattingly if not for back would have been a HOF'er probably a 3000 hit guy 350-400HR. 1500 RBI guy

 

[yesrutgers01]

While I think it's reasonable to say that Judge's contract will be a burden - especially in out years, I think that this is off the original thread point of Judge vs. Alonso. The entire thread has become like a "bash" Judge fest spurred on by 2008 who based on his posts and avatar appears to be into spreading the trolling and hate sentiment divide on this forum. Perhaps wait and see what contract Alonso ends up with and then make the comparison.

I never like comparing two really good players as it ends up making people pick one of them to bash. In this case- it becomes easier to bash Judge because of injuries only.
Interesting enough, the original question of the "why" Judge has so few rbi in ratio to HR is a fun one to discuss without bashing the player.
Judge's only fault to now has been injury. But eve with that- there is a good chance that during this contract, he could win another MVP or 2. If he does that, then he has earned his money. If he plays 7 full years during the contract, that would be a win too.
Investment wise- Judge sells...he can also carry a team on his back.
Yankees will not lose out on his contract. Yeah- final couple of years could be tough but the same can be said for any of the greats, very few had great years at the end of a 10 year contract at this age.

Now, for Pete- he most likely gets the largest 1B contract ever but, it won't compare to Judge just because 1B does not get paid like RF/OF. And if he signs for 10- he is also late 30's by the end of it. but better chance of getting 7-8 full years of a 10 year contract with him

 

[mikemarc1]

Its an interesting comparison. They both have an MVP as well as a #2 in MVP voting. Mattingly has 2 other MVP Top 10 finishes while Judge has 1. Mattingly started his career at a bit earlier age and had a 4 year period when he was considered perhaps baseball's best hitter. Unfortunately by age 29 he was deteriorating at the plate - mainly due to his degenerative (apparently genetic) back issue. Note that he was also was an incredible defensive first basemen. Judge has had 3 such core seasons. His batting average is not on par with Mattingly, but his power numbers are superior. Also note that he has been instructed to swing with an uppercut to enhance power - but also likely enhances strikeouts. These types of all or nothing advanced metrics did not exist when Mattingly played. Judge is a very good outfielder - but not among the best in the game.

Right now I go with Mattingly - he would have been a surefire Hall of Famer if not for his back. But I believe Judge has at least 2-3 more core (i.e. Top 10 in MVP voting type years) in him and by the end of his career will surpass Mattingly.

Hard for me to say anyone who is MVP caliber is over-rated.

I too would agree Mattingly is better…but I think if you ask fans today to name their top Yankees of all time, Judge makes many more people’s lists than Mattingly does…and i don’t think it’s quite close.

Why is this? Is this cause more people are familiar with Judge..with him being current? Is this cause he’s overrated by some? Or is Mattingly underrated?

 

[RUInsanity]

I too would agree Mattingly is better…but I think if you ask fans today to name their top Yankees of all time, Judge makes many more people’s lists than Mattingly does…and i don’t think it’s quite close.

Why is this? Is this cause more people are familiar with Judge..with him being current? Is this cause he’s overrated by some? Or is Mattingly underrated?

Most likely recency bias.

 

[czxqa]

 

[yesrutgers01]

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So- are you also trying to say that he has 6 multi rbi games this year as well? lol

Sorry, could'nt resist

 

[Kbee3]

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That's a pretty impressive list.

 

[Antnee79]

Judge first Yankee to have two 3 home run games in the same season. Surprised Ruth, Gehrig and Mantle never accomplished that feat.

 

[T2Kplus20]

That's a pretty impressive list.

Judge = Best slugger in baseball

 

[yesrutgers01]

Judge = Best slugger in baseball

Agree with this. And many other really good skills. His ONLY negative is ability to consistently stay on the field. But when playing, incredible.

 

[RUfinally2008]

He has more to prove than just staying healthy no? He's no Reggie that's for sure. A .211 postseason BA after 44 games,and 198 PA's, so I'd say he's no Mr. October. Would The 3 Amigos think 198 postseason PA's is too small a sample size to call him a postseason choke artist? I might be inclined to call him Mr. May, but I'm reminded he's usually on the DL by then. 😁 https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/judgeaa01.shtml#all_batting_postseason