Well,it looks like my nephew has eliminated Lehigh,Lafayette,Penn State, and UMass. He is down to Rutgers and Villanova. I am trying to find ways to bribe him to go to RU. Anyone know where I can get some Rutgers shirts ?
OT-Nephew Down To Final Two
- Thread starter HeavenUniv.
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
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Im guessing his parents are footing the bill? If he's footing the bill just explain to him what the savings of $120k over 4 years looks like compounded invested at 8% over 40 years. He can fund a very nice retirement by choosing RU over Nova.
Kyk,
To the best of my knowledge, he doesn't make $60,000 (the price of Villanova) working part-time as a life guard during the Summer. LOL
To the best of my knowledge, he doesn't make $60,000 (the price of Villanova) working part-time as a life guard during the Summer. LOL
Presuming there is no difference in lifetime earnings, of course.
I think it's interesting that those are his final 2. Very opposite ends of the spectrum.
Personally, I would never pay full boat for Nova. But that is just me...
Son just found out he got into RU engineering.....Waiting on Perdue, VaTech, and Texas A&M Looking to Major Computer Engineering any insight from any RU alums?
Show him lots of pictures of RU coeds. Juvenile but effective when communicating with an 18 yr old male.
My son is a graduate of RUeng, Computer Engineering. Had job offers junior year and been working the day after graduation. At night he is getting his PSM (professional science masters) some call it MBS at RU. Very tough first year but they put all the freshman in the same dorm so they can relate to each other and help when needed. You get a degree you have job that simple and Wall street comes a looking all the time.
Thanks RC1978 for the feed back. ....funny story when my son was in 8th grade we tailgated in purple lot near Engineering buildings, I said to my son " Hey, maybe you can come to RU for Engineering " He said "Their ranked 30th for my major". Blessed to have a driven son.
RUHudson,
He has been admitted to the Business School. I took him on a tour of the entire Piscataway/New Brunswick campus a few months back. He loved Livingston (home of the Business School), liked Busch Campus,seemed to have no interest in College Avenue (too crowded/hectic for his personality,I think) and we were running out of time so had to rush through Cook and Douglass). If Rutgers was only Livingston, I think he would pick Rutgers right now.
He has been admitted to the Business School. I took him on a tour of the entire Piscataway/New Brunswick campus a few months back. He loved Livingston (home of the Business School), liked Busch Campus,seemed to have no interest in College Avenue (too crowded/hectic for his personality,I think) and we were running out of time so had to rush through Cook and Douglass). If Rutgers was only Livingston, I think he would pick Rutgers right now.
I agree with the observation that these are two totally different environments. Really depend on whether he wants a big school environment where you need to be able to find help if you need it because the place is just very big. While I am sure there is more going on at Rutgers on weekends just because of its sheer size, I also bet a much larger portion of its student body goes home on weekends given its Jersey centric nature than Villanova where there is a much more geographically dispersed student population.
It is not about the asking price between Villanova and RU but the net after scholarships. Sometimes the "high price" school is less expensive. A friend of my daughter applied to both Cornell and Montclair (mom wants her 10 minutes from home). Been accepted at both and looking like Cornell will be slightly cheaper. My daughter is waiting on acceptance to RU. Already accepted at FSU with significant scholarship merit monies already offered. FSU may turn out to be significantly less than RU for us.
A ton of people go home on the weekend at Villanova. If you haven't seen RU on the weekend with the Easton and NB going a little more upsacale you should try it.
RU is a much better school and will offer a much more diverse experience in every way. Villanova is a regional school and aside from its alumni few will hold it in better regard than RU.
Unless you are going to an Ivy or a Duke/Stanford type school, why anyone would pay for a private undergrad education blows my mind.
Unless you are going to an Ivy or a Duke/Stanford type school, why anyone would pay for a private undergrad education blows my mind.
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
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Rutgers and Villanova are very different types of schools. Rutgers is a major research university and Villanova is small liberal arts college.
The advantage of going to a research university is that he will have the opportunity to interact with faculty who are at the cutting edge of their fields. The faculty will guide your nephew on what to learn and how to learn, but it is up to your nephew to actually do the work. It is somewhat of a sink or swim environment. But, in my mind, it better prepares students for the real world.
At a small liberal arts college, your nephew will have the opportunity for more interaction with faculty, who without the pressure of their own research, can spend more time engaging students. At a school like Swarthmore or Williams, where you have top notch faculty, this can be a very challenging and rewarding experience. But Villanova isn't Swarthmore. It is much closer to 13th Grade than Swarthmore. Nonetheless, your nephew may be more comfortable in a smaller environment, where he only needs to learn the material fed by the faculty, without being too challenged to figure things out on his own. At 18, this may be a better choice, if he hasn't developed into an independent thinker. He may have opportunities to mature intellectually as he gets a little older (or maybe not at all).
The advantage of going to a research university is that he will have the opportunity to interact with faculty who are at the cutting edge of their fields. The faculty will guide your nephew on what to learn and how to learn, but it is up to your nephew to actually do the work. It is somewhat of a sink or swim environment. But, in my mind, it better prepares students for the real world.
At a small liberal arts college, your nephew will have the opportunity for more interaction with faculty, who without the pressure of their own research, can spend more time engaging students. At a school like Swarthmore or Williams, where you have top notch faculty, this can be a very challenging and rewarding experience. But Villanova isn't Swarthmore. It is much closer to 13th Grade than Swarthmore. Nonetheless, your nephew may be more comfortable in a smaller environment, where he only needs to learn the material fed by the faculty, without being too challenged to figure things out on his own. At 18, this may be a better choice, if he hasn't developed into an independent thinker. He may have opportunities to mature intellectually as he gets a little older (or maybe not at all).
Why an educated person continues to speak in such broad sweeping generalities blows mine.
Here's one reason--willingness of alumni networks to play the ole boy network for you...
Despite not agreeing with your ridiculous route, I do agree with your final destination.
I wouldn't pay for Villanova either.
Being intimately familiar with the B School program, I would have no reservations about encouraging him to pull the trigger for RU. He will get a top notch education and the B School job prospects are very strong in areas such as Accounting, Finance, Pharma and Wall Street (improving every year and several really great networking opportunities for high achieving, motivated undergrads).
I know that 18 year olds and sometimes their parents don't want to pay enough attention to the finances. But that, just as much as anything, is your best sales pitch.
The lifetime ROI on the RU degree (assuming the net prices are similar with scholarships, etc) will be much higher.
Couple that with an MBA, CFA, CPA or some other professional certification in a few years and he will be on his way.
I agree with most of these points. Nova is pretty highly regarded for business at this point in time. Heard of a kid from Ridgewood getting into Georgetown and rejected by Nova recently. You will get much more individualized attention at Nova than at bigger RU. When resumes come thru the NYC finance sector, Nova will be viewed more favorably (there are exceptions and a top kid from RU will look better than a middle of the road kid from Nova). Same with MBA admissions. Sure, the top RU kids will do very well, but playing the %'ages, not everyone finishes at the top and it is very competitive to do so. The advantage for RU is the overall cost. Debt free out of the gate from RU or saddled with debt and a Nova degree, it is a tough decision.
There are lots of reasons why a student would pick a private school over a public. Often cost is not one of the factors - as has been pointed out many privates offer merit scholarships that bring the cost down to what an out of state public costs.
My daughter ris a HS senior and has applied only to private schools. My wife and I agree that a smaller school environment would be beneficial - no 2oo person lecture halls. So far she has been admitted to 4 schools all of which have offered what I would call significant scholarships - and she is not an "A" student. The cost of her school will now be no more than the cost we have paid for my son who attends an out of state Big Ten school.
I hope that I have the money when my kids are older to throw away a hundred grand on a vanity choice for their college (and yes - that includes OOS public schools).
This post pretty much nails it. Sink or swim vs. a supportive environment. The tuition premium pays for smaller class sizes, better career services, and a more helpful alumni network. To be successful academically at Rutgers, you have to be self motivated, but that prepares you better for the real world, IMO. At my large financial firm in NYC, I work with lots of B1G, Ivy League, Boston College, and Nova alumni. You can be successful via all three routes.
I think the decision should be based on which environment will the student perform the best. Places like BC, Nova, Stanford and NYU, all they care about is whether the tuition bill has been paid. As long as you do that, you're virtually guaranteed A's and B's as long as you do the work. At Rutgers, you really have to be self motivated to have a good grasp of the material to do well. General Chemistry is a great example where even after preparing much, some may not be able to effectively apply what they've learned on exams.
A 3.0 gpa is key. If you can achieve that at Rutgers, then you will save a lot of money. But if you need a supportive private school environment to achieve that, then it's worth the tuition premium.
I've seen lots of Villanova students transfer back to Rutgers after year one, because the environment wasnt right for them and cost. I've also seen Rutgers freshman transfer to UPenn and Columbia after year 1. So my point is, you can change after year 1, if you feel the environment isn't right for you.
If they don't have to take out loans of more than$40-50k including student and parent, they can afford it. Anything more they really can't afford it. The only advantage going to Villanova in the business world is if he wants to work on Wall Street. Villanova graduates worked at the same jobs at my previous company as graduates from Seton Hall, Rutgers and Penn State.
The Villanova graduate that I knew made the mistake of getting a Finance degree instead of an Accounting degree, which he agreed. You can no longer take the CPA exam or get into the Big Four without an accounting degree and 90-95% of CFO. worked previously in the Big Four.
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One additional note: I was talking to a lady who's son recently graduated from Villanova. She mentioned that her son's rent was around $1,200/month (for a Philly suburb!). I graduated from Rutgers rather recently and my rent was always in the ballpark of $400-$450. I've heard good things about the Villanova B-School, but to me there are very few schools worth spending $70,000+ a year and Villanova is not one of them.
Wow, still amazes me how far Livingston has come since the late 80's when I was stuck in the South tower for 2 years....
Just wanted to say that almost all of this paragraph is wrong. Faculty at Villanova have research pressure. Also, the level of faculty at Villanova is similar to Swarthmore and Williams. I know of a classmate of mine in graduate school that got a job offer from Williams and did not get an interview Villanova. A different classmate of mine the following year, with a similar but slightly better CV, got an offer from Villanova the next year. I am not saying that Villanova is as good academically as the other two, but the claim that it is vastly inferior is false.
Although many of the tenured faculty at Rutgers are busy with research, most of the undergraduate classes, even upper level STEM classes, at Rutgers are taught by faculty on teaching contracts. There is plenty of interaction available with the instructors at Rutgers. Also, there is plenty of independent study and summer research opportunities available with full professors at Rutgers.
Lastly, the idea of a "flipped classroom" has become trendy at small liberal arts colleges recently. There is a great chance that a student challenged to figure it out on their own at Villanova. Rutgers is much more likely to provide traditional lecture classes. There is still plenty to learn on ones own at Rutgers (that is one of the skills that a student learns in college) but the idea that Rutgers will develope a student into an independent thinker because of class structure better than Villanova confuses me.
The choice needs to be made by your nephew after he spends a day on each campus and gets a "feel" for both environments, as they are very different. His individual academic success and personal growth will maximize themselves in the environment he is most comfortable. He can arrange the visit through friend and/or his school counselor. Visits with parents/family in tow are good for information but living the day as a student allows for a more confident decision. When the final decision is made you want it with full confidence and conviction "that this is the school for me"
The cost differential is as important as his parents make it. That importance, or lack of, needs to be conveyed and included in the visit experience evaluation. Every college in America has concrete sidewalks, brick buildings and a nice library. It is the people and the experience that separates one school from the other.
The cost differential is as important as his parents make it. That importance, or lack of, needs to be conveyed and included in the visit experience evaluation. Every college in America has concrete sidewalks, brick buildings and a nice library. It is the people and the experience that separates one school from the other.
Is that worth the at least 120k more (at least 30k more a year than RU) plus interest in debt? Or a better investment than a rich parent taking that 120k and investing it, and returning the kid as a down payment on his first place?
We are not talking ND or GTown or even BC here...we are talking a college for people whose parents feel they are too rich for not just the RUs of the world but the TTFPs and UDels. An alumni network at a school that is not a top 25-30 national university or an Amherst or Swarthmore or something is not worth 120k plus insane ammortization or turning down 120k invested well. The sheer number of RU alumni, even subtracting the jaded types, is enough of a boost, and I know this from alums who could not tell Kyle Flood from Urban Meyer but can talk about the Grease Trucks or other basic RU experiences like a competent adult.
Well a scholarship is one thing. Personally I think being thrown into the mix at RU is great learning experience. But there also plenty of great small public schools like TCNJ.
A scholarship is a lot than just one thing. It opens up a lot of options that might not be available otherwise. We are still waiting for RU's decision but a number of other schools have offered significant scholarship money. It is looking like a number of good schools will come in significantly less than RU.
