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OT: Minor to Moderate Snow/Mix Likely Sat Evening (2/8) through Sun am

Was just reading a Post article about how good the skiing has been in NY this season. It was a little overdramatic, with feigned shock about East Coast powder existing at all, but sounds like one of the best seasons in quite a while.

Been awful in the Rockies. I was expecting it, so not a total gut punch, but still bad.

Glad somewhere is having a good one!
A friend of mine who was once on the Slovenian national ski team was in Vermont this past weekend and said the conditions were fantastic (and she used to train at Squaw Valley in the Tahoe area). I need to get back out there - it's been a couple of years...
 
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A seasonal total of 12.8”?! From what was supposed to be one of the coldest, snowiest winters in a while. And it will be Valentine’s Day soon. Not much time left for snow. This sure feels like Kennesaw and Princeton all over again.
Who said it was supposed to be a cold/snowy winter? Certainly not me, as I never post winter forecasts from anyone, as they're largely crap with a bunch of wishcasters forecasting above normal snowfall every year. As far as I know, nobody has a winter forecast anywhere near as accurate as the tropical season forecasts developed at CSU. And when I do pattern threads, at most I'll look about 3-4 weeks ahead, but usually just 2-3 weeks, where there is some skill.
 
Who said it was supposed to be a cold/snowy winter? Certainly not me, as I never post winter forecasts from anyone, as they're largely crap with a bunch of wishcasters forecasting above normal snowfall every year. As far as I know, nobody has a winter forecast anywhere near as accurate as the tropical season forecasts developed at CSU. And when I do pattern threads, at most I'll look about 3-4 weeks ahead, but usually just 2-3 weeks, where there is some skill.
I didn’t say you. Feeling guilty? I read many predictions, not just on this board, how we were in for a colder, snowier winter. Spoiler alert, it’s central NJ, it’s never coming. This is mostly a three season state now.
 
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I didn’t say you. Feeling guilty? I read many predictions, not just on this board, how we were in for a colder, snowier winter. Spoiler alert, it’s central NJ, it’s never coming. This is mostly a three season state now.
No, why would I feel guilty about anything I post on the weather? Thought maybe you were referring to me since I post shorter term pattern threads and you quoted my post. Also, much of the area is only a little behind schedule this season in snowfall (while being just a tad unlikely that we didn't get any of the bigger storms, so far for the most part) - it's not like the past couple and there's potential for this to at least be a close to average winter for snowfall, plus this winter is colder than the 1990-2020 normal, so your 3- season state comment is somewhat off (although winters are definitely warmer than they used to be due to the planet warming - the "normal" period used is typically the last 30 years, not the last 120-150 years).
 
No, why would I feel guilty about anything I post on the weather? Thought maybe you were referring to me since I post shorter term pattern threads and you quoted my post. Also, much of the area is only a little behind schedule this season in snowfall (while being just a tad unlikely that we didn't get any of the bigger storms, so far for the most part) - it's not like the past couple and there's potential for this to at least be a close to average winter for snowfall, plus this winter is colder than the 1990-2020 normal, so your 3- season state comment is somewhat off (although winters are definitely warmer than they used to be due to the planet warming - the "normal" period used is typically the last 30 years, not the last 120-150 years).
I am appreciate of a lot you do, so thanks. I wasn’t accusing you of anything. Well maybe being a little too optimistic for snow. I love snow. When there’s a rumor I run to this part of the board, usually just to be disappointed. I’m not sure how winter is technically measured but it sure doesn’t feel for the last two or three decades of my life we’ve had much of a winter.

I’m not touching the global warming content. I’ll only say, also in my lifetime, we’ve been told a new catastrophe is coming every decade but somehow they never materialize. So I’m a bit skeptical that it’s anything more than natural weather fluctuations.
 
I am appreciate of a lot you do, so thanks. I wasn’t accusing you of anything. Well maybe being a little too optimistic for snow. I love snow. When there’s a rumor I run to this part of the board, usually just to be disappointed. I’m not sure how winter is technically measured but it sure doesn’t feel for the last two or three decades of my life we’ve had much of a winter.

I’m not touching the global warming content. I’ll only say, also in my lifetime, we’ve been told a new catastrophe is coming every decade but somehow they never materialize. So I’m a bit skeptical that it’s anything more than natural weather fluctuations.
Thanks, although 2000-2020 was the 2nd snowiest 20 year period in the ~150 year record for Philly to NYC, so your memory is a bit fuzzy on the last 20-30 years. And on warming, there's zero doubt the planet is warming from human activity, but the calls for imminent doom from the left have always been way overblown, while the dismissal of the science from the right are specious - and most of the things that can be done to corral the warming are generally good for everyone (improved energy efficiency, reduced waste/consumption, developing alternative energies, etc.). @DJ Spanky - feel free to delete the climate comments if you wish, although this thread had kind of run its course (just don't delete the thread, please if it goes awry, thanks).
 
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Thanks, although 2000-2020 was the 2nd snowiest 20 year period in the ~150 year record for Philly to NYC, so your memory is a bit fuzzy on the last 20-30 years. And on warming, there's zero doubt the planet is warming from human activity, but the calls for imminent doom from the left have always been way overblown, while the dismissal of the science from the right are specious - and most of the things that can be done to corral the warming are generally good for everyone (improved energy efficiency, reduced waste/consumption, developing alternative energies, etc.). @DJ Spanky - feel free to delete the climate comments if you wish, although this thread had kind of run its course (just don't delete the thread, please if it goes awry, thanks).
Please the last 20-30 years in total snow fall per season? Is that what you’re measuring. I’m not arguing just asking. It could be my perception. Maybe I just think of it as major storms. A foot or more. Seems like we had a lot more in my youth and now everyone freaks over 3-4” (which could happen frequently and I shrug off). Yes it could be my perception
 
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Please the last 20-30 years in total snow fall per season? Is that what you’re measuring. I’m not arguing just asking. It could be my perception. Maybe I just think of it as major storms. A foot or more. Seems like we had a lot more in my youth and now everyone freaks over 3-4” (which could happen frequently and I shrug off). Yes it could be my perception
Yes and also far more big storms the last 20-30 years too - will post some data later - doesn't mean people don't freak out more over 3-4" than they used to, but the snow/big storm data is crystal clear. For now, take a spin through the NYC data (which is pretty representative for the general NJ area, especially along 95 - I know it is for NB as I've compared the two extensively) in the first link and the 2nd, which shows all of the big storms >1 foot. Of the 37 NYC storms >1 foot, 12 were in the last 30 years out of 150 years (you'd expect 20%, not 33% in 30 of 150 years) and 7 of the top 11 all-time NYC storms came in the last 30 years, including the top 2, which is an incredible stat.

Rank, amount, date...
1 27.5 January 22-24, 2016
2 26.9 February 11-12, 2006
3 26.4 December 26-27, 1947
4 21.0 March 12-14, 1888
5 20.9 February 25-26, 2010
6 20.2 January 7-8, 1996
7 20.0 December 26-27, 2010
8 19.8 February 16-17, 2003
9 19.0 January 26-27, 2011
10 18.1 January 22-24, 1935 March 7-8, 1941

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.weather.gov/media/okx/Climate/CentralPark/BiggestSnowstorms.pdf

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.weather.gov/media/okx/Climate/CentralPark/monthlyseasonalsnowfall.pdf
 
Yes and also far more big storms the last 20-30 years too - will post some data later - doesn't mean people don't freak out more over 3-4" than they used to, but the snow/big storm data is crystal clear. For now, take a spin through the NYC data (which is pretty representative for the general NJ area, especially along 95 - I know it is for NB as I've compared the two extensively) in the first link and the 2nd, which shows all of the big storms >1 foot. Of the 37 NYC storms >1 foot, 12 were in the last 30 years out of 150 years (you'd expect 20%, not 33% in 30 of 150 years) and 7 of the top 11 all-time NYC storms came in the last 30 years, including the top 2, which is an incredible stat.

Rank, amount, date...
1 27.5 January 22-24, 2016
2 26.9 February 11-12, 2006
3 26.4 December 26-27, 1947
4 21.0 March 12-14, 1888
5 20.9 February 25-26, 2010
6 20.2 January 7-8, 1996
7 20.0 December 26-27, 2010
8 19.8 February 16-17, 2003
9 19.0 January 26-27, 2011
10 18.1 January 22-24, 1935 March 7-8, 1941

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.weather.gov/media/okx/Climate/CentralPark/BiggestSnowstorms.pdf

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.weather.gov/media/okx/Climate/CentralPark/monthlyseasonalsnowfall.pdf
Ah. Maybe that’s it. I seem to recall quite a few times where nyc got a healthy amount and where I’m at in southern Middlesex co got a dusting to 3 or so inches. I know Nj is more of a “north and west” state.
 
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Ah. Maybe that’s it. I seem to recall quite a few times where nyc got a healthy amount and where I’m at in southern Middlesex co got a dusting to 3 or so inches. I know Nj is more of a “north and west” state.
Have not had a good snowstorm in central Jersey (Mercer) in years. I only use the snow blower when it's over 4". This will be the 3rd year of me not using it. I ready to put it back in the shed from the garage. I know we still got about 3-4 weeks left but I'm not confident in getting anything were I'm gonna need it.
 
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Ah. Maybe that’s it. I seem to recall quite a few times where nyc got a healthy amount and where I’m at in southern Middlesex co got a dusting to 3 or so inches. I know Nj is more of a “north and west” state.
My records in Metuchen and the NB records parallel NYC pretty closely, so it's doubtful things have been that different in southern Middlesex, as we're all along 95 so the storms are usually fairly similar (as opposed to NW of 95 towards places like Clinton, Sparta and Morristown, where things can be much different), but there's no site there with data to prove that. I think this holds for Trenton, too, but would need to confirm.
 
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Have not had a good snowstorm in central Jersey (Mercer) in years. I only use the snow blower when it's over 4". This will be the 3rd year of me not using it. I ready to put it back in the shed from the garage. I know we still got about 3-4 weeks left but I'm not confident in getting anything were I'm gonna need it.
Yes, but I'm talking about 2000-2020 and you got a ton of big storms like I did. Keep your eye on next Thursday, 2/20. Just sayin.
 
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Isn't that a bit early for something 10 days away?
Current Philadelphia forecast is:
Variably cloudy with snow showers. High 36F. Winds NNW at 10 to 20 mph. Chance of snow 50%. Snow accumulating 1 to 3 inches.
Way early - just sharing that there's a strong signal for a winter storm next Thursday, 9 days out. Also, your NWS forecast is for 3-4" in Philly tonight into tomorrow.

Plotter.php
 
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you should get your posting privileges revoked for posting about 10 day fantasy land storms especially since almost every big hit storm this year either went poof or shrunk inch by inch in size the closer we got to the event
We have been a bit unlucky (or lucky for some) this winter with the late moves on a few storms towards less snow, but I don't think my speculating in passing on a couple of these 7+ days out matters other than for giggles - on the weather boards they're analyzing threats 15 days out, lol. It's not like threads are being started on them (and actually most of the threads this winter have been started at 3-4 days out; sometimes I've done up to 5 days out on potential big ones).
 
As I had mentioned, I was way too pessimistic here, as we had a decent amount of heavy sleet and heavy freezing rain in the ~90 minutes after this post, so when I went out to shovel around 12:30 am, after the precip had stopped, I measured 1.6" of slop, which probably contained 0.5-0.6" of QPF (I didn't do a ratio, but saw a radar estimate in that range). If I had to guess it was 0.5" of snow (0.05" QPF), which I saw early, plus 1.1" of 2.5:1 sleet (0.44" QPF) and 0.1" ZR for 0.59" QPF. That's a guess, but I can absolutely tell you that this slop kicked my ass (and shoulder, lol) as it felt like a 5-6" of snow shoveling, as it took almost 2 hours. But on the plus side, I did get to meet allsnow from AmericanWx, who lives in Metuchen and plows on the side; he was plowing our street and saw me out there in my RU gear and asked if I was RU#s, so we chatted for a bit which was nice and then we both went back to work. The 1.6" was also probably more, but had compacted with the alternating sleet and rain, but anyway, it brings my seasonal total up to 12.8". Could be more next week.

Recap of 2/8 Event: As per the actual snowfall (which includes sleet) map, below, it turns out that the NAM/GFS models were right with the idea of more sleet and freezing rain for areas south of 78 and especially towards Philly/SNJ where they only got sleet and a fair amount of freezing rain/rain with 0.2-0.3” of freezing rain being reported (don’t have a map for it), but they were wrong for areas along/N of 78 (and west of 287) and for the 95 corridor north of about New Brunswick, where a mix of snow and sleet fell (0.3-0.6” of liquid as snow/sleet, compressing down to 1.5-2” of dense slush, which is more than those models forecasted). And most of NENJ (Union up to Bergen), NYC, LI, and the Hudson Valley/CT saw mostly snow and some sleet with 3-6” falling including 3-4” for EWR, CPK, LGA, and JFK. So, overall, the Euro model probably had it best for snow and precip (the NAM/GFS were also too dry) and certainly the NWS forecast was quite good, except for areas SW of a New Hope to Long Branch line, where almost no snow fell and more freezing rain/rain fell than expected.

For our house in Metuchen (and much of eastern CNJ), we had started off as sleet, but quickly changed to heavy snow, getting about ½” of snow but then changed to heavy sleet for a couple of hours, putting down about 1.6” of snow/sleet. This was followed by about 2 hours of alternating heavy sleet and freezing rain; unfortunately, my 1.6” measurement was after this period and I’m sure we must’ve had ~2” before that, but it compacted with the freezing rain falling, so my official report is 1.6”. As an aside, I measured again early the next morning and it was down to about 1.3" after compacting more, which aligns well with another Metuchen observation of 1.2" at 7 am - just goes to show how important it is to measure as close as possible to the end of the event, especially when there's mixed precip and/or temps likely to be above 32F either of which can lead to compaction/melting before making a final measurement.

Anyway, that 1.6” contained an estimated ~0.6" of total QPF/liquid (I didn't do a formal meltdown to get the liquid amount and ratio, but the NWS radar estimate of total precip was in that range for Metuchen, as per the map below. If I had to guess I had 0.5" of snow (0.05" QPF), which I saw early, plus 1.1" of 2.5:1 sleet (0.44" QPF) and 0.1" freezing rain (and our trees had about 0.1” of ice accretion on them) for 0.6" QPF. That's a guess, but I can absolutely tell you that this slop kicked my ass (and shoulder, lol) as it felt like a 5-6" of snow shoveling, as it took almost 2 hours. The 1.6” brings my seasonal total up to 12.8".

The next morning I also went over to the Oak Ridge Disc Golf course in Clark (I play there a lot and am on the Board) and shoveled all 30 tees (18 holes, but 12 of them have long and short tees), which have about the same area as my driveway/sidewalk, but it only took an hour, because all I had to do was push the crusty 1.5" off to the side unilke at home where I had to throw each shovel full of mass a few feet. I then played a round and tied my personal best at the course, which was cool: got a lot of extra distance on some drives that just kept skipping/sliding and putted well. which was key as missing a 30' putt likely meant the disc sliding 25' past the hole.

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